A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[tgb]

Hi Elan120,

what LPS do you use to power the device ?

with this mod, what's the "size" of the SQ improvement ?

 

The few times I tried this very popular kind of mod (changing caps for "better" ones / adding caps here & there) : the improvement was not night/day.

I changed my mind about this kind of mod. Now I prefer not to pay for a cheap chinese LPS & add this kind of mod, but pay a little bit more for a better PS (LT3045 based) & just connect this PS to the device with any electric wire : no brainer, better SQ improvement.

(I confess that I'm really good at soldering... :-) )

Rgds

[Confused]

I am just sneaking in here to give this old clock cable thread a bump.  The thread seemed like a good idea at the time, basically a thread to capture the combined experience for clock cables.  Unfortunately, the thread did not get much interest, so drifted out of use.  I still think the thread could be useful, and I am sure that there must more clock cable knowledge amongst the posters in this thread than anywhere else on the planet, and certainly more combined knowledge now compared to when the thread linked below was first created.  Plus, I am sure many of us have learned that clock cables can be critical to performance in some systems.

 

So, if you have had any good experience with clock cables, of any type or price, it would be appreciated if you could post here. 

 

We might breath some life into the old thread yet! 

 

 

 

[soares]

5 hours ago, elan120 said:

Yes, if you counting the soldering pads from the left, the first two are +12VDC inputs, and the next two are Gnd pads.

 

 

 

The following are list of key parts I used:

• DC input connector
• Mundorf silver hook up wire
• Cotton tube - please note, the inner diameter of this cotton tube is a tight fit for the hook up wire above, so careful inserting it through before cutting the wire to proper length, or risk of stripping the hook up wire teflon insulator back.
• Bypass cap - 0.1uF MLCC
• Bypass cap - 1.0uF Mundorf film
• Heat shrink tubing (various sizes/colors)

The modification is somewhat straightforward if you are comfortable with basic soldering.  Hope to hear your listening impression if you are going to try this modification.

 

Oh, so kind from you...🙏

Thank you so much!!!

I will give it a try asap.

warmest regards,

Jorge

[ASRMichael]

14 hours ago, austinpop said:

Regarding vibration control, I've been reading the various reports here with great interest. Clearly, when comparing again stock footers, people have had good experiences with the energy dissipation element being either:

• dissipation platforms, like Ikea bamboo, Tranquility Bases, etc, with rigid couplers like wood blocks, SR MiG 2.0, etc, or
• isolation footers, like Herbie feet, Stillpoints, and Gaia, and
• in the case of speakers, there is the question of the role of spikes for mass coupling.

And this doesn't even cover the full spectrum of solutions.

 

Since every approach seems to have merits, it seems to me (OP) that for this thread, it would be particularly valuable to get listening reports from people who've done comparison between solutions. Comparisons with stock footers are still welcome, of course. 

 

Does that make sense to folks?

also, in the case of speakers, isolation footers and energy draining should be considered too. IMHO, I removed the feet from my Sonus Faber's, so base of the speaker is lying flat on Symposium platforms, and under the platform Symposium Rollerblocks. 

[ASRMichael]

Hi

 

Regarding the Schroeder method, I was having a chat with Sean Jacobs about this. His view was, if my DAC & AMP has spare connectors. Then he would modify the DAC and AMP so the spare connectors would join as one internally, so you can effectively run two pairs of cables, thus negating the need for adapters/connectors on the cables and like....

 

This is not something I can DIY myself, but will get Sean to do, thought was worth sharing.  

[auricgoldfinger]

I have some quick notes comparing two types of footers.  Several weeks ago, I was able to acquire at set of Gaia OEM footers from a friend who recommended them.  They are not normally available for retail purchase but are similar to the OREA series with better performance.  I put them under my modified Melco S100, which until then had only the stock feet.  The switch sits on a glass monitor riser.  I heard more 3D separation between instruments with a deeper and wider soundstage.   Overall, I heard a more realistic soundstage which belied the fact I was listening through headphones.

 

Because I was so impressed with the result, I recently acquired a second set to put under my Synergistic Research PowerCell.  The PowerCell has always had a set of MiG 2.0 footers under it.  The unit sits on an aluminum shelf that was recommended by John Swenson on another thread a few years ago.  In this use case, I found the Gaia made the music sound soft and diffuse.  The rigid MiG 2.0 was clearly superior.

 

I decided to try the Gaia under my SOtM switch since I experienced such good results with the Melco.  The SOtM switch sits on a glass monitor riser like the one used for the Melco.  Once again, the MiG 2.0 was the superior performer.  I immediately noticed the bass guitar and kick drum were not as present, and what I did hear was muddled in comparison.  More generally, the entire drum set and percussion sounds better with the MiG 2.0.  I simply hear more of it, and what I hear is better defined.

 

Now, I am curious to try a rigid footer under the Melco.  I don't have any extras on hand right now, so that that experiment will have to wait.

[MarkusBarkus]

18 hours ago, austinpop said:

Since every approach seems to have merits, it seems to me (OP) that for this thread, it would be particularly valuable to get listening reports from people who've done comparison between solutions. Comparisons with stock footers are still welcome, of course. 

Disclosure: I am not an engineer. I read broadly and deeply, and consider/digest the concepts I read. I experiment and build *a lot.* Always open to opposing views, and experiential data.

 

My take on vibration in audio is--there is vibration in audio! In the air, in the room structures and in the various components. I can't practically measure all of that, and in all the various permutations that actually exist between/among these elements. Maybe someone can measure all that, or a porpoise with a Phd in sound engineering.

 

So, I made the decision to accept the concept that everything is vibrating and everything is "communicating" and I want to try and control whatever seems a negative impact on the sound.

 

Based on my "research" which does not include marine mammals, but does sometimes include a couple of sharp-eared friends, you're either isolating things or coupling/draining them. I get what folks are saying in both camps, but I have isolated most of my pieces. When I have used spikes and cones, I have not loved the sound. Maybe confine this post to speakers for now.

 

Speakers: (Revel Studio2s).

Floor: Wide-plank, white oak engineered wood, felt/poly vapor and damping barrier, over concrete slab. Below grade.

 

--Placed flat on floor was OK, but it seemed the speakers had more to give. They just weren't lively/dynamic. Maybe bass was a little boomy (BTW-room is heavily managed with traps, quads, etc.). Just not lively.

--Factory spikes added a little more detail mid and high, but I heard no difference on low end.

--Factory spikes -and- Herbies Audio Lab (HAL) Little Puckies. I did not hear much difference...maybe a little tighter bass. Maybe. Surely easier to move things.

--Placed flat on Mapleshade plinths, with brass spiked footers to floor. This config was untenable as plinths were crowned (nightmare). I added HAL dBNeutralizer pieces between speaker base and maple plinths. Actually, this set-up sounded pretty good, perhaps emphasized midrange, but I did not prefer that speaker height. My ceiling height is low and this was just too high for my ears.

--IsoAcoustic Gaia2s. Bass is clearly more defined and not boomy at all, better integrated with subs (another story). Overall sound was balanced and detailed (did this a while ago). These footers have been in place for almost a year. I'm open to experimenting, but I find no compelling reason to change the Gaias. I recommend them if you're in the isolation camp. They are directional and do really "suction-cup" to the floor. You need a towel under them if you're going to tinker with speaker placement.

 

NB: sub settings were noted and remained constant for listening tests, otherwise who lnows what you'd be hearing.

 

BTW: There are two REL Ti7s here, one in front, one on a side wall. Neither is set per REL guidelines re: placement. But both are "isolated" from the floor. One is on basic cork/rubber squared things I always mean to replace, and the other (front) sub is on a platform I built for the purpose.

 

I tried many sub strategies, but prefer two units at different heights. The platform is 22" tall and rests on HAL dB Neutralizer strips. The platform itself has top and bottom in 3/4" MDF, 16 x16 inches. Inside of this "box" is a piece of Sono-tube (for pouring concrete footers-Home D has them) filled with fiberglass, unfaced batting, loosely stuffed in. I *think* it has eight 1" holes in the tube. I made it a while ago. The top and bottom sandwich the tube, and are further supported by 2x2s at the corners. The walls of the box are spanned with 2" rigid fiberglass. The whole business is wrapped in an open weave poly material (used on the bottoms of furniture for reupholstering).

 

May we consider the above a giant footer, so I'm not too far off-topic?
 

[MarkusBarkus]

17 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Exactly, all this heatsinks absolutely useless, melting point of aluminium about 660C

...I dunno, gets pretty hot here in summer. 😉

 

Actually, I had no concerns about the case melting. It seems to me if you're pulling heat out of the device, that would be a net-positive. I suppose the caveat to that would be if you were creating inconsistent temps/fluctuations that impacted components that preferred a steady-state operating temp. Then again, I was a humanities major, so...

[elan120]

7 hours ago, tgb said:

what LPS do you use to power the device ?

with this mod, what's the "size" of the SQ improvement ?

I am using a JS-2 at the moment to do the burn-in.  Have not compare with different power supplies yet, but that will happen when the burn-in is done.

 

The improvements are in the dynamic, impact, clarity/detail, and the overall presentation, but the key improvement was the lack of harshness from the stock form with the smps.

 

[barrows]

10 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

...I dunno, gets pretty hot here in summer. 😉

 

Actually, I had no concerns about the case melting. It seems to me if you're pulling heat out of the device, that would be a net-positive. I suppose the caveat to that would be if you were creating inconsistent temps/fluctuations that impacted components that preferred a steady-state operating temp. Then again, I was a humanities major, so...

Of course the heat sink on the case is helping, if it was not drawing away heat, then the sink would remain at room temperature!  I realize that this approach is not the "best" way to cool the internal chips, as these chips are not in direct contact with the case.  But, one has to consider that the air inside the case is transferring heat from the chips, to the case, and hence to the heat sink on top of the case.  

Could the heat dissipation be better with direct contact tot he chips, of course it could, but this does not mean that the sink on the case is not lowering the internal temperature of the eR, it has to be, because the heat sink can be seen to rise above room ambient temperature.  Remember, the case has very little distance internally, from the PCB to its surface, and will conduct heat both by radiation and convection to the case.

 

When I run the microRendu v 1.4 in my bedroom system at DSD 512, it gets very hot, so I added an external heatsink, and this lowers the case temperature by about 5-6 C. this will help with long term reliability.

 

Also, remember it is not just a single chip in the eR which is creating all that heat, because there are multiple linear LDOs in there which drop significant voltage, so just dealing with a single chip is not what one wants to do. Thinking about it, a little ventilation for the case could do wonders as well, especially if it was applied in such a fashion as to encourage convective airflow though the case...  The case is small, so the internal air volume heats up a lot.

[roman410]

20 minutes ago, barrows said:

Of course the heat sink on the case is helping, if it was not drawing away heat, then the sink would remain at room temperature!  I realize that this approach is not the "best" way to cool the internal chips, as these chips are not in direct contact with the case.  But, one has to consider that the air inside the case is transferring heat from the chips, to the case, and hence to the heat sink on top of the case.  

Could the heat dissipation be better with direct contact tot he chips, of course it could, but this does not mean that the sink on the case is not lowering the internal temperature of the eR, it has to be, because the heat sink can be seen to rise above room ambient temperature.  Remember, the case has very little distance internally, from the PCB to its surface, and will conduct heat both by radiation and convection to the case.

 

When I run the microRendu v 1.4 in my bedroom system at DSD 512, it gets very hot, so I added an external heatsink, and this lowers the case temperature by about 5-6 C. this will help with long term reliability.

 

Also, remember it is not just a single chip in the eR which is creating all that heat, because there are multiple linear LDOs in there which drop significant voltage, so just dealing with a single chip is not what one wants to do. Thinking about it, a little ventilation for the case could do wonders as well, especially if it was applied in such a fashion as to encourage convective airflow though the case...  The case is small, so the internal air volume heats up a lot.

Thank you barrows for technikal explenations. My heat sink  is pretty warm, that's mean it is working and now I will have much better sleep😉.

 

Also working good like weight (weighting almost 2 pounds), keeping ER on the place due to use stiff ethernet wires🙂.

[MarkusBarkus]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

Thinking about it, a little ventilation for the case could do wonders as well, especially if it was applied in such a fashion as to encourage convective airflow though the case... 

Hmm. That sounds like a chimney.
 

For marketing purposes, I think we should call it the BCS modification (Barrows Convection Stack. 

 

[Matias]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

Thinking about it, a little ventilation for the case could do wonders as well, especially if it was applied in such a fashion as to encourage convective airflow though the case...  The case is small, so the internal air volume heats up a lot.

 

Or just get rid of the case and run the board alone. 😁

[Middy]

I said before crack the screws loose and put a small shim or washer in the gap. 

[RickyV]

Or one could leave the ER alone Superdad and John Swenson said it was no problem.

[[email protected]]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

Of course the heat sink on the case is helping, if it was not drawing away heat, then the sink would remain at room temperature!  I realize that this approach is not the "best" way to cool the internal chips, as these chips are not in direct contact with the case.  But, one has to consider that the air inside the case is transferring heat from the chips, to the case, and hence to the heat sink on top of the case.

Well, I told it is useless because the way used not very efficient, heatsink attached can reduce the case (and internal temperature) for a few degrees, but the ic still can be very hot because it is not attached to the chassis and the heat dissipated not transfered to the chassis/heatsink, below you can see an example of proper design, but I don't think it can be implemented with the chassis used 

 

As you probably know - air is a good thermal insulator (with very low thermal conductivity) and even 0.5W of dissipated power can cause local overheat for the IC (not a case temp, which basically depends on total dissipated power inside). And if you drill some ventilation holes and allow air circulation, you can reduce internal and case temp much more efficiently 
 

[ASRMichael]

I have posted this photo before. I see lot of discussion around ER heatsink. See photo. 
 

I have HDPlex headsink sitting on the ER, not taking any temps. The copper heatsinks are very warm, so must be taking away heat from the ER?

 

5 devices in one box. Really helps with cable management, but the best part was being able to have isolation shelf & feet (just 3) under the one case. 

 

 

[sunny_time_99]

For my personal taste the ER is too warm. Heat reduces the Lifetime of the internal Capacitors. If this will be a Problem or not - we will find out in a few years. The ER Case Looks nice - of cause. 

[mourip]

On 7/28/2020 at 5:12 AM, sunny_time_99 said:

For my personal taste the ER is too warm. Heat reduces the Lifetime of the internal Capacitors. If this will be a Problem or not - we will find out in a few years. The ER Case Looks nice - of cause. 

 

Assuming that you own an ER. Have you had any problems related to heat with your own unit?

[MarkusBarkus]

On 7/27/2020 at 2:31 PM, MarkusBarkus said:

For marketing purposes, I think we should call it the BCS modification (Barrows Convection Stack. 

 

As a follow-up to this desecration, er experiment, measuring temp in various places on the case, fins and "stack" I find a maximum of 5 degrees F temp reduction. 
 

However, I do not find the temp to be constant, with or without the BCS mods. Playing music vs. idling seems to increase a bit, and of course, ambient temp differences are in play (It's +/- in a 4 degree range in my below-grade room).

 

It's always a bit cooler on the case with the stack and fins in place, from 2-5 degrees.
 

Logically, it seems this would be lowering internal temp, even if inefficiently.
 

Is this significant with regards to performance or longevity of internal components? I'd guess not so much, which is why the UpTone honchos are not "sweating" this item. And surely NOT recommending drilling holes in their case. That's all on me.

 

Still, always fun to drill holes and work the Dremel. BTW: I did remove the case top before drilling, of course. 

[austinpop]

Good discussion, but unless you can bring the focus back on sound quality due to these heat mods, this is straying a bit OT.

[ASRMichael]

I don’t really understand the concerns about heat being generated from the ER, & other sources in fact. My amplifier (on 24/7) generates so much heat (much hotter than ER), I don’t even need my home heating on in the winter. 
 

It’s not an issue, sit back & enjoy the music that the SQ of ER brings. 
 

[elan120]

On 7/25/2020 at 3:50 PM, elan120 said:

Some listening impression and modifications of Buffalo BS-GS2016 switch

 

 

I have been working on building power supplies for the past couple months, and missed the Buffalo switch heat wave until I can no longer find more of them on the open market.  Thanks to @Nenon, I got one a  few weeks ago and started to do some burn-in with everything stock, following the recommended settings.  The sound is fairly harsh cold from the start, it did improve slightly a week later, but still quite fatiguing, I lost the patience to wait further at that time, and pull the unit from the system, removed the stock SMPS, replace it with Mundorf silver/gold hook up wire, so I can connect it to a 12V linear power supply.  While doing the DC conversion, I also added a 0.1uF MLCC and an EVOX capacitor to the DC input on the switch board, and below is a picture of the modification.

 

 

Once I connected the switch back in the system, upon the first listen with no burn-in, the result is very encouraging, the harshness experienced with stock unit is almost gone, but some hint of thinness is there, but the experiment trying port setting from 100Mbps to 1Gbps took that thinness away, and this is now becoming my new setting.

After a week of additional burn-in, the sound quality continues to improve, and the harshness can no longer be detected.  This is the time I decided to add another 1.0uF Mundorf film bypass cap to the DC input, and found the result is more encouraging, and at this point with the improvement I get, I will let the switch burn-in continue with no further changes for a while to see how things go from here.  Below is a picture showing the added Mundorf bypass cap.

 

 

Overall, the SQ improvement is very evident, the bass is tighter, stronger, and quicker, clarity is improved by couple notches, dynamic is better, and the sound stage is more 3-D like, and the sense of you are there is much better.  I am very happy with adding this switch to my system as the third switch, and will continue to experiment the combination once burn-in is done.

 

As a reference, below is my current setup:

Buffalo BS-GS2016 (Modified) →  ZyXEL (Modified) → oM → eR with Master Clock
 

 

Some more listening impression and modifications of Buffalo BS-GS2016 switch

 

 

After one week of burn-in, I started to sense the improvement from the burn-in kicking in nicely.  Although the burn-in is still required, I decided to try out some setup configurations to see if there is a more preferable setup.

 

The original setup:

Buffalo BS-GS2016 (Modified) →  ZyXEL (Modified) → oM → eR with Master Clock

 

I then tried the following setup:

ZyXEL (Modified) → Buffalo BS-GS2016 (Modified) → oM → eR with Master Clock

 

This setup, by swapping position between ZyXEL and Buffalo, subjectively giving a little fuller and richer sounding, which is closer to my preference.

 

 

Finally, tried the following setup:

ZyXEL (Modified) → Buffalo BS-GS2016 (Modified) → optical → eR with Master Clock

 

In this setup, I removed the SFP from oM and inserted into Buffalo, and took out the oM from the chain, again, subjectively open up the overall music presentation more, overall clarity also is a bit more improved, so this is the final setup for now.

 

 

While the final setup is good, I decided to do one more experiment on the input voltage.  When I modified the power input from smps to 12VDC, I noticed the 3 downstream DC-DC converter spec show they can accept a DC input as low as 5V, so out of curiosity, I switched from 12VDC to 5VDC to see how well it will run.  To my delight, this turnout to be a better setting.  With 5VDC input instead of 12VDC input, it took away a bit of sharpness in the high notes making it less forward, but not affecting the details and overall clarity, making the music playback even more enjoyable.  I would highly recommend anyone who has the Buffalo switch power input modified to run DC input to give this a try and see if it will match your system better.

 

 

[dgilz]

On 7/18/2020 at 6:37 PM, BigAlMc said:

 

IKEA just refunded me for two of these, ordered on the 6th of July but now mysteriously out of stock 🙄

 

Mysterious my ass, I blame you lot!! And Mr Darko!

 

Worse still I mentioned to my girlfriend and she now wants two for the kitchen and you know, food duties 🤔

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

You can grab some here in Paris : there is an IKEA shop in the city center (direct subway line from my home !!!! )
I use this one upside down with rubber feet under it : https://www.ikea.com/fr/fr/p/laemplig-planche-a-decouper-00394380/

[sandyk]

On 7/28/2020 at 4:42 AM, Middy said:

I said before crack the screws loose and put a small shim or washer in the gap. 

Quote

"Use of a fancy linear power supply (such as our matching UltraCap LPS-1.2) is NOT required to get outstanding performance from the EtherREGEN. While high-quality power supplies make a nice difference most everywhere else in a music system, we personally are not hearing very much change with power supplies and the EtherREGEN (certainly owing to its great isolation and internal power networks). Yet others do report some benefit, so you are of course welcome to experiment within the +DC 7~12V range.  [Note: The original UltraCap LPS-1, with top setting of 7V, does not have enough current for the EtherREGEN. The UltraCap LPS-1.2, with its 9V and 12V settings can easily power an EtherREGEN.] " - Uptone Audio

 

One obvious answer  to those concerned about the case temperature would be to reduce the input voltage closer to the minimum +7V if practical. You would however need to use a PSU with say a minimum continuous output of 1.5A  which many cheap Linear PSUs using LM317T voltage regulators are capable of supplying. Confirm the manufacturers ratings first though, as some make ambitious claims , while not using adequate heatsinking for example, or under rated transformers.