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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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On 6/8/2020 at 9:11 PM, seeteeyou said:

Both Juniper SRX300 and revision C1 of D-Link DGS-1210 series are sharing the same BCM53343 (Broadcom Hurricane 2 SoC) inside Buffalo / Melco

 

https://openwrt.org/toh/d-link/dgs-1210

https://forum.openwrt.org/t/juniper-srx300-octeon-3-bcm-hurricane-2-soc-switch-any-chance-to-get-switch-working/45956

 

Let's take a look at the GPL Source Code section linked below, all 10/24/28/52-port models of DGS-120 (revision C1) are pointing to the same stuff @ 155.49 MB

 

https://tsd.dlink.com.tw/downloads2008list.asp?Category=Product%20Data%20II%3ESwitch%3ESmart%20GE

 

For firmware updates, all BS-GS20XX/BS-GS20XXP models from Buffalo are sharing the same bsgs20-10352.exe file

 

https://www.buffalo.jp/support/download/detail/?dl_contents_id=60675

 

Extract that with 7-Zip etc. and we'll end up with only bsgs20-10352.rom and readme.txt afterwards.

 

Regarding the specs, the count of address table turned out to be 16,384 for all models and then it's the same deal again for the amount of main memory

 

https://www.buffalo.jp/product/detail/bs-gs2016.html

 

Granted it's more like a marketing ploy of some sort

 

https://www.melco-audio-masters.com/uploads/1/0/1/5/101505220/mel_2073_s100_a4_2pp_info_sheet_v3.pdf#page=2

 

Though it's still kinda interesting to try BS-GS2048 for about $500 by disabling 40 outta 48 ports while getting rid of the fan(s), provided that won't be complaining about the lack of active cooling

 

https://www.buffalo.jp/product/detail/bs-gs2048.html

 

Hi seeteeyou,

I've just come thru your pretty interesting post.

Thanks for finding these info.

 

Did you try a D-Link DGS-1210 series switch ?

Has someone try one ?

 

Roughly, based on your info, the Buffalo GS-serie should sound like these D-link. In this kind of product, the SoC is doing all the work. Same SoC, same sound.

The Buffalos GS-series are discoutinued, the D-link DGS-1210s are available on the market (price is good, more models in the productmix vs Buffalo, more choice vs number of SFP ports for instance).

 

Shortage of Buffs is therefore a no issue => let's swap to these D-link !

Rgds

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

Actives / digital AES in / active correction on PC side

Passive daddy setup is dead

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15 hours ago, austinpop said:


Could you pleas clarify what OS this was on, and what tool(s) you used to make these observations?


My Roon Core is on a machine with Ubuntu 20.04. Previously, I was using a NUC with ROCK os and the buffering was the same.

 

My router is from ASUS and I am simply using their iOS app to monitor internet traffic. The Ubuntu machine and network are not being used for much else apart from Roon/Tidal and so any big calls for data can be safely attributed to Tidal. Living in a rural location, my internet connection isn’t very fast (around 8Mb/s) and so the buffering downloads are easy to observe as they may take several minutes if a long symphonic movement is next up.

 

Roon definitely didn’t  used to work like this and it started something like 12 to 18 months ago. It’s a great feature for people like me without super internet connections as it makes Tidal streaming much more robust and reliable.

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3 hours ago, tgb said:

Hi seeteeyou,

I've just come thru your pretty interesting post.

Thanks for finding these info.

 

Did you try a D-Link DGS-1210 series switch ?

Has someone try one ?


Thanks @tgbfor bumping @seeteeyous interesting find. Some Juniper and D-Link models

- have DC input

- offer SFP ports, and

- seem to offer router functionality (the Juniper has a ‘Router’ section in the specs, for the D-Link I’m not sure)

 

I wonder how they compare with the EdgeRouter and how long they remain available !? (as they have been introduced ~5years ago, don’t know if this can be considered as ‘old’)

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On 7/3/2020 at 11:19 PM, austinpop said:

Experiments with Vibration...

In keeping with low budget vibration control suggestions, here is a variation on the theme which I found worked well.

Put a 12" inner tube (not fully inflated) under each IKEA board.. For example you can get 3 for £13 here.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Inner-Tubes-Suitable-Nipper-Pushchairs/dp/B07B43MDXW/ref=sr_1_7?_encoding=UTF8&dchild=1&hvadid=80126942129458&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=12+inner+tube&qid=1595155786&sr=8-7&tag=mh0a9-21

 

EDIT: Courtesy of Barry Diament http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/vibration.htm

"What I've found is that all of our components are being substantially inhibited from delivering their best because they are subject to external vibrations.  By far, the most sonically and visually degrading are those vibrations in the ground that enter the component via its feet. "

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

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On 7/4/2020 at 10:29 PM, mikicasellas said:

 

Thanks !!

 

Yes CM 8 wins over the AQ Cinnamon in my system too

 

I guess no one around here is using Ghent JSSG360

 

Just stepping away from vibration control for a moment.

 

I have purchased the Ghent Linkway CAT8 JSSG360 cable and have used it for the last several days. It is superior to the AQ Cinnamon and CableMatters CAT8. The presentation seems smoother and more balanced, with slightly improved dynamics over the CM 8/Monoprice Cat8 in my system. It highlights some flaws with the CM 8 IMHO, in the upper frequencies.

 

I will probably try other more expensive options in the future but this Ghent cable is staying in my chain in some capacity for a very long time. I will probably pick up another one.

 

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7 minutes ago, Exocer said:

 

Just stepping away from vibration control for a moment.

 

I have purchased the Ghent Linkway CAT8 JSSG360 cable and have used it for the last several days. It is superior to the AQ Cinnamon and CableMatters CAT8. The presentation seems smoother and more balanced, with slightly improved dynamics over the CM 8/Monoprice Cat8 in my system. It highlights some flaws with the CM 8 IMHO, in the upper frequencies.

 

I will probably try other more expensive options in the future but this Ghent cable is staying in my chain in some capacity for a very long time. I will probably pick up another one.

 

 

I tried the Ghent ethernet cable last year to use between my endpoint and ER. To be honest I probably did not leave it in long enough to break in. I pulled it out rather quickly and used it upstream to put some hours on it. I have not retried it yet.

 

More to the point. I found it to be remarkably stiff and thick especially in a short length, so much so that I could only use it by turning my ER upside down with a very heavy weight on it. It was a bit like the tail wagging the dog. I recommend either not buying a very short length or else specifying connector types and orientation that will allow it to work easily in your system.

 

Ghent is great to work with and I love the JSSG360 USB cables he has made for me.

 

Glad to hear that it improved your SQ!


"Don't Believe Everything You Think"

System

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12 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

How does it compare to your EC UC250 USB?

Thanks

 

Matt

I should have qualified my statement on Ghent cable as I've not done that comparison just yet. The EC UC250 is in place and I'm too busy enjoying the music sessions :) 

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

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1 hour ago, mourip said:

 

I tried the Ghent ethernet cable last year to use between my endpoint and ER. To be honest I probably did not leave it in long enough to break in. I pulled it out rather quickly and used it upstream to put some hours on it. I have not retried it yet.

 

More to the point. I found it to be remarkably stiff and thick especially in a short length, so much so that I could only use it by turning my ER upside down with a very heavy weight on it. It was a bit like the tail wagging the dog. I recommend either not buying a very short length or else specifying connector types and orientation that will allow it to work easily in your system.

 

Ghent is great to work with and I love the JSSG360 USB cables he has made for me.

 

Glad to hear that it improved your SQ!

 

I absolutely agree with you on the stiffness. I am able to position it well, since my server is a little less than one meter away. The ER sits flat on its stock feet for now.

 

I have a Lush^2 USB cable on the way. May as well add a Ghent JSSG360 cable in the kart with my inevitable next order for comparison. 

 

I currently use two USB cables:

 

Schiit Pyst

Audioquest Forrest

 

I have a love/hate relationship with the Forest. Perhaps I should leave it elsewhere in my chain for break-in...it sounds really good for some genres but rather bright with pop. The Pyst is a bit smoother and more musical in my setup.

 

 

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Also, if Innuos owners are using Experimental Mode to playback from memory (via an inbuilt LMS player) then it might be worth revisiting this and testing Roon playback versus Experimental mode.

 

I know you advocate retesting your theories from time to time. This is surely a good case to reevaluate.

 

Cheers,

Alan

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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51 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Thanks for clarifying. I was surprised that you observed both current AND next track were being buffered by Roon, when I only observed current track buffering. So I went back and redid the experiment. And found the answer...

 

In my experiment, I had a queue of 2 tracks only, with Roon radio OFF and no repeat play options. When I start playback of track 1, I see the network pegged for some period, after which activity drops to negligible. What happens next was surprising:

  1. If I let playback continue as normal, then when track 2 starts, there is no new network activity. This confirms your observation.
  2. If while track 1 is playing, I hit Next, then my network gets pegged. It's as if Roon decides to re-download track 2!

In any event, this is a very academic point, and really of no great import. My main findings are unchanged wrt to SQ:

  • Roon SQ from Qobuz/Tidal has improved due to memory buffering
  • That said, Stylus streaming from Qobuz/TIdal is still better, although the gap has shrunk somewhat.


Good you saw the same thing but an interesting question for me is whether Roon is actually doing this for local content as well as stuff from the internet. Is it always aiming to buffer the current and next track, no matter where it’s located? My library is on the same Linux box as the Core and, of course, the copying to the buffer would be many times quicker than from the internet streams and more difficult to see in progress.

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5 hours ago, mourip said:

Ghent is great to work with and I love the JSSG360 USB cables he has made for me.

I find it interesting that you like this USB cable, what might you have compared it with?  I ask because it appears Ghent makes this cable with wire not designed for USB, and which does not meet the USB impedance specification.

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                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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11 hours ago, Chris_Shorter said:


Good you saw the same thing but an interesting question for me is whether Roon is actually doing this for local content as well as stuff from the internet. Is it always aiming to buffer the current and next track, no matter where it’s located? My library is on the same Linux box as the Core and, of course, the copying to the buffer would be many times quicker than from the internet streams and more difficult to see in progress.


In my earlier post, I described the behavior I saw with music on a local NAS, and it is not buffering the track as it does streaming tracks.

 

I would expect the same behavior with local files, but hard to observe from disk I/O as file system cache behavior (readahead) would get involved.

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16 hours ago, barrows said:

I find it interesting that you like this USB cable, what might you have compared it with?  I ask because it appears Ghent makes this cable with wire not designed for USB, and which does not meet the USB impedance specification.

 

Supra, Wire World Ultraviolet, AudioQuest Cinnamon, Blue Jeans USB. Mostly "bang-for-the-buck" cables.

 

All that I can really say is that I like it in my system and that it sounds better to me than those that preceded it. It is easily possible that other wire used in their configuration might sound better. To be honest I have stepped off of the treadmill for a while and am mostly just doing listening. 


"Don't Believe Everything You Think"

System

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17 hours ago, barrows said:

I find it interesting that you like this USB cable, what might you have compared it with?  I ask because it appears Ghent makes this cable with wire not designed for USB, and which does not meet the USB impedance specification.

 

The Lush^2 doesn't meet USB specs either but still many people like it. 

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator.

Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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2 hours ago, RickyV said:

 

The Lush^2 doesn't meet USB specs either but still many people like it. 

I know, that is one of the reasons I am asking.  I owned an original Lush for a brief period (I did not like its sonics).

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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