A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Ricardo007]

On 5/15/2020 at 4:22 PM, Peter Avgeris said:

Startech NIC requires the addition of a SFP module to function. And the impact of these modules to the final SQ has been already demonstrated by a lot of guys

Hello Peter,

Can you elaborate on what kind of impact?

[Ricardo007]

On 5/4/2020 at 2:19 AM, austinpop said:

• top row of ports off
• Ports 2/4/6/8 at 100Mbps, 10/12/14/16 at 1Gbps
• LLDP off
• 802.3az off (aka EEE) on all ports
• ADP (Auto power down) off on all ports
• Flow Control is ON - this is off by default. 

Hi Rajiv

How does each of these settings impact sound quality on a switch? What are they for?

[Ricardo007]

On 5/21/2020 at 4:14 PM, ray-dude said:

to manage my different WiFi networks as VLANs

why do you create separate VLANs for your wifi networks?

Do you also have additional VLANs for audio and non audio wired 

[austinpop]

24 minutes ago, Ricardo007 said:

Hi Rajiv

How does each of these settings impact sound quality on a switch? What are they for?

 

I did not have the inclination or Herculean patience to test these. Instead, I just applied reasoning to set these.

• top row of ports off
• LLDP off

Rationale for above: mimic settings from posts on the Chinese forum that @seeteeyou referenced, that reported lower ports sounded better.

• Ports 2/4/6/8 at 100Mbps, 10/12/14/16 at 1Gbps

Rationale: mimic Melco S100, and to have a mix of 100Mbps and 1Gbps ports to test.

• 802.3az off (aka EEE) on all ports

Rationale: EEE caused issues with the chipset the EtherRegen used, so I thought I'd turn it off.

• ADP (Auto power down) off on all ports

Rationale: I thought this might hurt latency, on the principle that energy saver modes add cause latency to wake back up from a low energy state.

• Flow Control is ON - this is off by default

Rationale: recommended by HQPlayer developer for managed switches.

 

In light of the discussion on networking that is going on with the Extreme, and Emile's assertion that reducing energy used for the network adapter improves SQ, I actually would now suggest setting:

• 802.3az ON (aka EEE) on all ports
• ADP (Auto power down) ON on all ports

and see if this makes an audible difference. This would enable the Ethernet adapter in the music server (or endpoint) connected to the switch to negotiate these low energy modes. I'm even tempted to try playing with DMA Coalescing and Interrupt moderation on the JCAT Net Card Femto, but setting these is a bit fiddly, requiring the use of ethtool and modprobe on Euphony. I actually wonder if reducing the noise profile of the adapter by reducing the frequency of interrupts and DMAs, and negotiating low power modes with the switch, would improve SQ, even at the cost of a very small increase in latency?

 

If anyone is motivated to try this, especially on Windows, or Audiolinux where you have root access, then please do and report back.

[ray-dude]

3 minutes ago, Ricardo007 said:

why do you create separate VLANs for your wifi networks?

Do you also have additional VLANs for audio and non audio wired 

 

My home ethernet traffic (including WiFi) is on my 2nd EdgeRouter X SFP, including my Unifi Access Point for WiFi.  I have LANs on my WiFi for guest, IoT devices, and home to isolate WiFi traffic (security and privacy for data traffic).

 

My audio net is on a separate subnet on my first EdgeRouter X.  I don't use WiFi for audio.

 

 

[elan120]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

I actually would now suggest setting:

• 802.3az ON (aka EEE) on all ports
• ADP (Auto power down) ON on all ports

and see if this makes an audible difference.

In my system, there is a bit of difference that I can detect.  After going back and forth a couple times, I am going to keep this recommendation, as they removed some edges that I didn't sense it was there before, and it makes the music playback more enjoyable.

[Chris_Shorter]

11 hours ago, Vangelis said:

I’m assuming when you say local FLAC, you mean your own music files off your hard drives and that they sound the same as streaming from Tidal?

Yes that is the meaning that I intended to convey.
 

Chris

[Peter Avgeris]

11 hours ago, Ricardo007 said:

Hello Peter,

Can you elaborate on what kind of impact?

It is exactly like replacing other components. Each and every module seems to behave on its own, regarding SQ. I am not very experienced in these modules as I'm not using any fiber isolation devices in my audio chain.

[MarkusBarkus]

 Buffalo Soldiers/Switch Heads:

Amazon notes five new Buffalo switches, FYI. I'm married to Ciscos, so go wild...

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XX4H997?ref=em_1p_1_ti&ref_=pe_3730140_517109190

[BigAlMc]

Cheers Markus,

 

But at:

 

$549.99

 

+ $175.03 Shipping & Import Fees Deposit to United Kingdom

 

$700 bucks for the wrong Buffalo? It would make more sense buying the £1100 Melco equivalent S100 Dela from Japan surely? Even including import fees this makes sense.

 

$700+ for an ordinary switch is NOT a good deal. Better waiting to see where switch tech lands, but meantime 500 bucks plus for a switch that should cost 100-150 bucks is best avoided.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

 

[Exocer]

I've decided to try the Startech PCI-E Fiber card from the Taiko Extreme: https://www.startech.com/Networking-IO/Adapter-Cards/pcie-gigabit-ethernet-fiber-card-open-sfp~PEX1000SFP2

 

I am using it with the Finisar SFPs recommended by @auricgoldfinger between the server and Etherregen:  FTLF1318P3BTL

 

Also using 10M of this : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I2ESG9W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Very much enjoying this setup. This was an experiment to hold me over until I purchase an audiophile PCI-E network card and I don't know that I will switch from this any time soon, it sounds really good. Ghent JSSG is now between my last BS-GS2016 switch into A side Etherregen.

 

Differences:

Lower Noise floor

Improved microdetails

Slightly improved dynamics

Sound is slightly "thicker", the opposite of what I was expecting.

 

This is in direct comparison to the TG-3468 v3 ethernet card I have been testing lately.

 

For those wondering, this Startech card worked with GentooPlayer without a hitch.

[Vangelis]

23 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

I really can't agree with the first few sentences given the tremendous success I've had with Stillpoints Ultra products.  Just a week ago three used sets of Ultra SS arrived.  These were swapped for Nordost Sort Kones BC under my Zenith Mk3 and for Stillpoints Ultra Mini under my HMS and TT2.  Remarkable the improvement to tone purity, image focus, and transient speed as a result of this swap. Yes Stillpoints are pricy, but the purity of tone that comes forth from them is insanely addictive.  That's why you'll find that most folks who have introduced Stillpoints into their systems have gone nuts with them.  And once you have them under everything, the whole is far greater than the sum of the parts.  

 

Having said all that I've not experimented much with wood. The little that I have tells me that this becomes more an exercise in tuning or flavoring the sound to more to one's liking.  I have avoided that approach when selecting components and cables - opting instead to take steps that cause my system to get the heck out of the way of the music.  This approach keeps proving itself to have been the correct one (for me, at least).  

Hmm....With all due respect, you are disagreeing on the premise that my personal experience using different materials and methodology that you admit you’ve had no real hands-on time with can’t possibly compare and must introduce colorations compared to your personal experience with Stillpoints. Sounds to me these these are personal experiences that neither of us really have enough information or facts to create an opinion on other than I have a box of have a box of Stillpoints in my closet and it’s very unlikely that have a large variety of wood blocks. 

 

I understand pride of ownership and the fact do you are really were excited about your new footers, I get that, but I would not let that cloud my judgment there that there can’t possibly be an alternative that could realize the same or better results.

 

You had mentioned that you have system approaches that work well for you, I respect that and I would never disagree especially since I can never know your system’s character or your listening biases. 

 

There’s simply nothing to disagree about.  Where did I say that Stillpoints or any the other of other companies that make footers are not viable or capable of providing improvement? The fact that you had personal success with Stillpoints does not negate the fact that someone else has personally experienced similar or better results from a different pathway.

[kennyb123]

4 minutes ago, Vangelis said:

There’s simply nothing to disagree about.  Where did I say that Stillpoints or any the other of other companies that make footers are not viable or capable of providing improvement? The fact that you had personal success with Stillpoints does not negate the fact that someone else has personally experienced similar or better results from a different pathway.

Relax.  I only disagreed with your point that “these footer companies can’t possibly take into account all the different audio chassises plus how the interior components react to resonance and stored mechcanical energy within their chassises”.  My experience with Stillpoints tells me that this isn’t necessarily true.
 

You are more than welcome to disagree with me.  But please frame your disagreement around with my actual words.  I did not say my success with Stillpoints negates your success with your method.  Lighten up - this is a hobby after all.  
 

I had personally reached out to you a few weeks ago to let you know about the availability of a Zenith SE as I had seen that you were on the lookout for one.  You then went ahead and purchased it.  I’m bummed that my goodwill there didn’t lead to a more amiable reaction to my post.

[Ricardo007]

21 hours ago, ray-dude said:

My audio net is on a separate subnet

What is the difference between creating a separate subnet for audio and creating a separate VLAN for audio?

[Ricardo007]

I have a separates: modem, router edgerouter 6P and Unifi AP withPOE adapter.

 

 

The blue ethernet cable goes to a stack of 2 ciscos 2960 linked by fiber going to the router.

The yellow ethernet cable goes to the AP with power: can I plug an isolator like Gigafoil between the white POE adapter and the yellow cable to further isolate?

The POE adaptor is plugged to AC, how can I prevent contamination of AC on this side?

[ray-dude]

2 hours ago, Ricardo007 said:

What is the difference between creating a separate subnet for audio and creating a separate VLAN for audio?

with a vlan, I’d have to tag traffic and the vlans would be fully isolated without routing/forwarding rules. Since I want my audio server to be able to talk to Roon remote on my laptop and phone (and my file server), that would have been a pain. I had it set up this way initially, but the way I had firewall rules basically required session initiation (I used ping) before the connection would be open. Probably better ways to do it, but not very civilian or audio guest friendly. 

 

with a separate subnet, broadcast traffic is not going between the subnets. Only routed traffic goes to and from the audio server, so I can minimize packets to my audio server without having to play wild routing/forwarding games (my audio server is the only device on my audio subnet)

[BigAlMc]

7 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

You are more than welcome to disagree with me.

 

Dear Sir, how dare you slander the good name of Ikea and suggest my bamboo chopping board has tuning properties. Pft!

 

Answer me this. Can you chop vegetables or serrano ham on your stillpoints?!

 

Ha! Who's laughing now!

 

😂

[Middy]

At least the wife wont ask for the stillpoints back so she can start dinner...

[BigAlMc]

9 minutes ago, Middy said:

At least the wife wont ask for the stillpoints back so she can start dinner...

 

True, but she might borrow the EtherRegen to cook something!

[Ricardo007]

5 hours ago, ray-dude said:

broadcast traffic is not going between the subnets. Only routed traffic

Thanks for your efforts to explain, but it remains still esoteric for me...

What is the difference between broadcast traffic and routed traffic?

[Ricardo007]

5 hours ago, ray-dude said:

with a vlan, I’d have to tag traffic

What does it mean to tag traffic and what does it entails?

[MarkusBarkus]

Any practical experience affixing heatsinks with heat conducting pastes?
 

I have a small aluminum heatsink from Parts-Express "resting" on the eRG, but I could use some goop to further improve the heat transfer. Non-permanent silicon paste.
 

It's sold as a kit, so it includes hardware to screw it down, but I hate to deface the sexy Uptone case with screw holes.

As is, it definitely pulls heat out, based on fin "touch analysis." Helpful to the device? Not sure, but I quite like the stegosaurus look. Old, but new...

[roman410]

1 hour ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Any practical experience affixing heatsinks with heat conducting pastes?
 

I have a small aluminum heatsink from Parts-Express "resting" on the eRG, but I could use some goop to further improve the heat transfer. Non-permanent silicon paste.
 

It's sold as a kit, so it includes hardware to screw it down, but I hate to deface the sexy Uptone case with screw holes.

As is, it definitely pulls heat out, based on fin "touch analysis." Helpful to the device? Not sure, but I quite like the stegosaurus look. Old, but new...

Hi

 

To affixing heat sink to my ER I do not use paste but thermal pad

https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-Thermal-Efficient-Conductivity-Handling/dp/B00UYTTXSM/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=arctic+thermal+pads+1mm&qid=1595685314&sprefix=arctic+thermal+pads&sr=8-3

 

It it is much easy to apply and removal, with only  disadvantage pads have little less heat conductivity compare to best paste.

[barrows]

2 hours ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Any practical experience affixing heatsinks with heat conducting pastes?
 

I have a small aluminum heatsink from Parts-Express "resting" on the eRG, but I could use some goop to further improve the heat transfer. Non-permanent silicon paste.
 

It's sold as a kit, so it includes hardware to screw it down, but I hate to deface the sexy Uptone case with screw holes.

As is, it definitely pulls heat out, based on fin "touch analysis." Helpful to the device? Not sure, but I quite like the stegosaurus look. Old, but new...

Just resting on there will make for good heat transfer, adding thermal paste will probably not help, unless;ess there is some pressure applied (clamping force) to press the sink to the eR's surface.  Thermal paste is designed to be used in an arrangement with clamping force, to insure the paste is just a very, very thin layer.  If you must keep the heatsink removable, perhaps a double sided thermal tape would be the best way to affix the heat sink, which would provide good thermal transfer, and still be removable.

[MarkusBarkus]

54 minutes ago, barrows said:

Just resting on there will make for good heat transfer, adding thermal paste will probably not help, unless;ess there is some pressure applied (clamping force) to press the sink to the eR's surface.  Thermal paste is designed to be used in an arrangement with clamping force, to insure the paste is just a very, very thin layer.  If you must keep the heatsink removable, perhaps a double sided thermal tape would be the best way to affix the heat sink, which would provide good thermal transfer, and still be removable.

Thanks Barrows! Howze my PS build going? I have to replace this Shanti. 😉