A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[austinpop]

4 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

 

So that’s my review of the impact of trio of Sean Jacob’s DC3/4s  

 

Thanks for your wonderful report, and congratulations on the improvements. It's just impossible to overstate the importance of quality power supplies in the digital chain!

 

BTW - this is exactly the thread to post a listening impressions report of this kind.

 

4 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

But I’m not quite finished. Having said all the above about the impact of 3 power supplies in my network chain, I would just like to remind readers that we’re talking about playing a Qobuz file directly from the Statement’s RAM buffer, with connection to the Network temporarily disabled.  

Also, playing the same track from the Statement’s internal storage (which is also played from the RAM buffer) is exactly at the same level, sonically, so the 3 network data stream power supplies have uplifted local file replay by the same degree they’ve uplifted remotely streamed files.  An observation....no hypothesis to how or why. 

 

Enjoy this parity between Qobuz and local as long as it lasts! 

[Blackmorec]

Great Question Larry,

You’ve asked me to elaborate on the only piece of my own DIY in the entire project. Thank you for that!

 

Essentially in stock form the RE650 takes a 230V (115V) feed directly from its wall socket into a 5V on-board SMPS, which is about the size of a match box and looks scruffy and very mass produced. Fortunately the way the switch is built, the case splits like a clamshell and on the one side are all the network eletronics and heat sinks and on the other side is the power supply and built-in wall socket. Quite a neat and fortuitous division for this project. 

 

As our dear friend Frank likes to point out (Hi Frank!) you need to fix the basic faults before its going to sound really good and there are several basic faults with the RE650. 

By plugging it into the wall, you correctly orientate the antennae, so its important to maintain that orientation.  But plugging something into the wall has several physical and electrical problems.

 

• Fistly, the built-in SMPS is a piece of junk....or to be a bit fairer its a fit for the purpose, cheap as chips piece of consumer electronics to drive a simple access point/extender.
• There’s electrical noise and vibration coming from the AC to DC rectification
• There’s vibration and noise coming from the SMPS module
• The wall itself is vibrating with the music pressure waves 

 

So with the unit split, the external mains plug is carefully removed with a hacksaw (this piece gets covered so cosmetically we’re good) and the internal power supply is removed, leaving a pretty clean plastic shell with a solid mounting point.  A mounting “button hole” is attached to the mounting point using special ultra-strong plastic weld adhesive with extra structural support inside the case.  The Button Hole is a very similar shape to the 13A plug I removed so it all looks very neat. 

A 2.1 mm barrel plug socket is fitted to the case. The socket is connected internally with Mundorf Silver/Gold to a square 6 position plug that plugs directly into the unit’s main electronics board, providing 3x5V and 3x0V

I then fabricated an anti-vibration wall mounting which comprises an appropriately sized piece of 10mm methacrylate onto which is mounted the corresponding mounting button, which fits into the Button hole,  securing the RE650 to the anti-vibration mount by both Weld adhesive and by a large screw that passes directly through the button and like a spike provides location against the wall. So, a single, adjustable mount that isolates the R. Through the middle of the Button is a large screw that acts as a locating spike against the wall.  At each corner of the methacrylate plate is a nylon ring, which are also plastic welded to the back of the methacrylate. Into those rings are placed O-rings, which attach to cup hooks in the wall. The top 2 O-rings bear the weight, the bottom 2 o’rings and the spike jest keep things nice and level. In this way the unit maintains the exact design orientation, while being completely isolated from wall born and of course power supply vibration.

 

The DC3/4 sits on an Atacama stand and the DC cable is one of Nenon’s beautiful Mundorf Silver/Gold JSSG360s

 

The data stream leaves the RE650 via a Synergistic Research Atmosphere X Ref ethernet cable into a AQVox SE. The cables are routed, suspended so as not to short circuit the vibration isolation in any way 

 

[Nenon]

3 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

 

So, is SJ now a Mundorf Silver/Gold convert? Or did he supply this only because you requested it?

 

I'm curious because this would definitely be one of my upgrade requests should I get round to ordering a DC3+ or DC4. It would be good to know if the Silver/Gold DC cables work their magic on the SJ designs as well as they do on just about everything else.

 

It works really well, and I am trying to convince Sean to offer that. You can however request it like @Blackmorec did. 

I have done a lot of comparisons in my system, and every inch (or should I say every mm) of DC wire in my system is using the Mundorf silver/gold wire - the 15.5 AWG version where possible, and the 18 AWG at a couple places where I could not fit the thicker version. I have easily spent over $3K on this wire in my system. And it's totally worth it. 

@Blackmorec asked me if too much of this wire could become a problem and if he should get his LPS with the standard wire. My answer was to go with the Mundorf - it won't be too much. The more of the DC wire I have replaced, the better it got. The cool thing about the Mundorf silver/gold is that it does not have the lean/analytical/bright sound associated with silver wire. It's nothing like that in my opinion. This is of course my personal opinion. But I have also heard from tens of people who have built DC cables, and the feedback has been nothing but excellent. I haven't tried the wire in any other applications as I don't think it's a magic wand that improves everything. I may try multiple runs of it in a power cable one day (with some vibration damping and Bocchino or Furutech NCF connectors). 

 

One thing to make clear, though. As always, with cables, your system needs to be at a certain level to be able to hear those differences. And the better your system is, the more magnified the effects are. But they would not perform miracles on a system that is not transparent enough.

 

I would love to hear a Taiko Extreme server internally wired with the Mundorf silver/gold wire! :)

[Nenon]

As I was writing my previous post (regarding cables), I started thinking about the coaxial cable coming to my house from my ISP. Some people are lucky enough to have fiber Internet. But for those of us using "cable" Internet, we have a coaxial cable coming to our house. Has anyone tried upgrading the coax cable between the splitter and the cable modem with an audiophile cable? I know, I know, there are probably miles of coax outside of our house, so why would the last meter matter? Well, it's the same with power cables, isn't it? I've learned not to look for solid logic every time in audio and EXPERIMENT instead!

 

Call me crazy ( and you might be right to some extent ), but I am wondering how a schroeder-ed cable like this would work there:

 

It would need different connectors. And it's probably not a true 75-ohm cable. But since that's the best S/PDIF cable people here have found it may be a good thing to try. Or maybe try another good quality 75-ohms cable. Crazy thought, I know! But I am curious if anyone has experimented with that? 

 

Unfortunately, I have a pretty long run that I ran inside the walls between multiple rooms, and it's practically impossible for me to try. 

 

[seeteeyou]

I hope that Rajiv (and others) would allow this reply to stay here, or else it could moved to another thread.

 

Maybe take a look at this table here first, obviously Canare L-8CHD is king in terms of attenuation (all the to the right)

 

https://www.canare.co.jp/en/prodcont/coaxspec.php

 

And then L-8CUHD turned out to be even better than L-8CHD

 

http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=256

 

Available by the foot with matching 75Ω BNC connectors

 

https://www.markertek.com/product/l-8cuhd-bk-ft/canare-l-8cuhd-75-ohm-ultra-low-loss-coaxial-cable-for-12g-sdi-black-per-foot

https://www.markertek.com/product/bcp-d8uhd/canare-bcp-d8uhd-75-ohm-bnc-crimp-plugs-12g-sdi-for-use-with-l-8chd-and-l-8cuhd

 

Also sold by Laird as follows

 

http://www.lairddigitalcinema.com/Product.asp?baseItem=L8CUHD-B-B-003&cat=CABLES&subcat=VIDEOCAB&prodClass=VBNCBNC

 

Though everything would make sense if the BNC jacks on both ends were also up to par

 

http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=249

https://www.markertek.com/product/bcj-jrk/canare-bcj-jrk-12g-sdi-75-ohm-bnc-female-to-female-panel-mount-barrel-connector-bulkhead-receptacle

https://www.markertek.com/product/bcj-jruk/canare-bcj-jruk-75-ohm-bnc-flush-mount-receptacle-itt-xlr-f77-12g-sdi

https://www.markertek.com/product/bcj-jrudk/canare-bcj-jrudk-12g-sdi-75-ohm-female-to-female-barrel-bnc-connector-flush-mount-neutrik-d-panel-receptacle

https://www.markertek.com/product/bcj-jrudbk/canare-bcj-jrudk-12g-sdi-75-ohm-female-to-female-barrel-bnc-connector-flush-mount-neutrik-d-panel-receptacle-black

https://www.markertek.com/product/wpl-1103/my-custom-shop-wpl-1103-1-gang-stainless-steel-wall-plate-with-1-canare-12g-sdi-bnc-feedthru-connector

 

---

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/29650-dcs-network-bridge/page/19/?tab=comments#comment-765484

On 1/13/2018 at 9:30 AM, Beolab said:

Ordered some BNC 75 Ohm SDI 
12 Ghz made for 4K UHD pro broadcasting Canare cables just for fun, that i can highly recommend and they had greater precision than my BNC Nordos Valhallas, they did not got the same overall focus as the Canares.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/29650-dcs-network-bridge/page/19/?tab=comments#comment-765520

On 1/13/2018 at 11:31 AM, Beolab said:

The Vahallas 6ft BNC - BNC  was ~2700 dollars each with some discount. 

 

The Pro Canare 12 gigabit cable is just 30 dollars each, ex shipping and customs.  So you get two for around 110 $ in total. 

 

[austinpop]

7 hours ago, Nenon said:

As I was writing my previous post (regarding cables), I started thinking about the coaxial cable coming to my house from my ISP. Some people are lucky enough to have fiber Internet. But for those of us using "cable" Internet, we have a coaxial cable coming to our house. Has anyone tried upgrading the coax cable between the splitter and the cable modem with an audiophile cable? I know, I know, there are probably miles of coax outside of our house, so why would the last meter matter? Well, it's the same with power cables, isn't it? I've learned not to look for solid logic every time in audio and EXPERIMENT instead!

 

Call me crazy ( and you might be right to some extent ), but I am wondering how a schroeder-ed cable like this would work there:

 

It would need different connectors. And it's probably not a true 75-ohm cable. But since that's the best S/PDIF cable people here have found it may be a good thing to try. Or maybe try another good quality 75-ohms cable. Crazy thought, I know! But I am curious if anyone has experimented with that? 

 

Unfortunately, I have a pretty long run that I ran inside the walls between multiple rooms, and it's practically impossible for me to try. 

 

 

While home CATV cable is indeed 75Ω, I suspect — never having done this — that any cable used should meet or exceed the specs of the RG-6 standard. Per Wikipedia, RG-6 stipulates a loss of under 6dB/100 ft @ 1GHz. Not sure how audiophile 75Ω cables would compare.

 

 

6 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

I hope that Rajiv (and others) would allow this reply to stay here, or else it could moved to another thread.

 

Absolutely. You always provide us with the best links!

[Blackmorec]

20 hours ago, Nsxturbo said:

Blackmorec,

 

What a wonderful post to wake up to this morning! I’ve been experimenting with some home built linear power supplies and they’ve made really stunning  improvements. So I’ve been wondering, what makes supplies from the likes of Sean Jacobs LPS,s so much better? Well, I think you’ve distilled it in an amazingly eloquent way! It is not such an easy task to translate what we audiophiles hear into words, but I think you really captured the essence of the changes your DC3/DC4 LPS’s have brought to your system. Congratulations on getting one step closer to what all of us music lovers are seeking!

I also am equally intrigued at the last noted observation. That your hearing the same improvements on locally played files. I wonder if somehow there is less noise leaked back through the AC lines to your Statement? You would think that if your network were totally disconnected from your Statement and also disconnected from the mains, you would achieve a similar result? These are some of those mysterious observations that boggle our senses but all of us who have been at this a long time have experienced. Those, “What the heck” confounding observations.

 

Cheers, Todd

Hey Todd,

You may be interested in what led to this ‘blooming’ of LPSs in my system. 

At the very start, I’d just received a new system after 13 years with an all-tube Balanced Audio Technology - Guarneri Homage system which i loved but hadn’t updated for 6 or 7 years. I’d decided to make a radical change and implement a fully digital amp/DAC  and Server combination for local and remote streaming. Quite a change for a tube-head with a large CD collection. 

 

My system was duly ordered but there was a hold up of the Devialet amps due to the massive Worldwide Core Infinity upgrade which involved new mother boards for all their Expert Pro product line, so my system only arrived 2 months later. Idle hands.....👿

So in the meantime I ordered a Michell Orbe, SME IV and Ortofon Cadenza Black to fill the empty shelf of my rack. 

I also ordered an Innuos Zenith SE with 10m of Synergistic Research Active SE ethernet cable to connect it up (My system uses SR power and speaker cables and I’ve been a ‘loom’ fan for years after my first experience with Shunyata)

 

My amp and speakers duly arrived and I spent a very relaxing afternoon setting up my turntable, arm and cartridge. The reason I ordered the Michell SME unit is that set up is all about calibrated measurements rather than the black magic of trying to get 4 independent springs to bounce uniformly in 3 dimensions. So having got all the set points and measurements exactly to their desired position I fired everything up, using a host of Mint Decca and EMI classical records and a couple of dozen 180g re-issues from HMV. 

Wow....this brought back memories. Firstly the smell of old LP covers, then the vinyl sound. There’s something about dragging a precisely ground diamond through a groove in some plastic  at a precisely regulated speed that has a sound character all of its own.  All the usual attributes were great....wide, deep soundstage, plenty of air, atmosphere and detail and that lovely vinyl warmth to the sound. So I’m Cooking on Gas!!  Loving the new amp and speakers and finding the return to vinyl pretty awesome. 

And then the Innuos Zenith SE arrived. I have 3 branches of large electronics chain stores close by so I could try a few different cables, routers, mesh networks etc  in order to find the best way to stream over a network.  In the end I found that a really clean wi-fi   link gave me the best SQ by a significant margin over 10m Synergistic ethernet cable. No-one more surprised than me, especially given what the SR cable had cost.😏

So with everything connected and run in, the new Zenith SE was sounding magical...better than I’d ever heard and way better than the Michell Orbe, which in comparison sounded ‘old’. The digital was quieter (of course),  but also faster (PRaT), more dynamic generally with much better micro-dynamics due to the silent background. It had better soundstage, better imaging specificity and focus and it was a joy to use ergonomically with its iPad user interface. So the TT and the 180 used records and 20-30 vinyl reissues very quickly became redundant, then idle.  Shame, because it looked very nice on my top shelf and I really enjoyed handling vinyl, but why go to all the trouble with record sleeves, TT clamps, arm queuing etc., when it sounds inferior?

At this point I was still learning the basics about digital hi-fi and I read on this august forum about the benefits of USB reclockers. I was utterly delighted with how my system was sounding.....nothing I didn’t like, but this is a hobby, so I went ahead and ordered an AQVox SE and a SoTM Tx-USBUltra, sPS-500 supply and some high-end USB cables on a 30 day trial basis. The units arrived and were installed on a spare anti-vibration amp base. Sound-wise I could hear some differences, but overall the magic was gone. It was simply not so much fun to listen to. After 400 hours and some minor improvements, but no overall breakthrough I contacted the dealer for a return. I really didn’t understand why I wasn’t getting SQ improvements as practically everyone else was reporting substantial upticks. With the unit removed and replaced by a (very good) Chord C line USB cable, the magic instantly returned.  I discussed this with the dealer and he wondered if the unit could have been faulty so he kindly offered to send a replacement, to be used with its dedicated SMPS wall wart.  The unit arrived, was cabled and plugged in and immediately the magic was gone. 

I wondered if it could be to do with the USB cables I was using so I got some other really good Tellurium units to try.  I got the new units and did a little comparison. The Tellurium USB cables were superior to the Chord...no question. So then I decided to compare music via the Tellurium direct compared to music via the TX-USBUltra. With the TX-USBUltra in circuit, no magic...with the Tellurium cable only....no magic. Hey, what the hell. The Tellurium was working fine before I plugged in the TX-USBUltra and now it wasn’t. But the TC-USBUltra wasn’t in circuit and was getting no data stream as I’d removed its USB input cable. So I pulled the mains plug on the TX-USBUltra and hey-presto...Magic back. 

My conclusion;  my system had a very distinct dislike for switched mode power supplies!  Especially those using the same dedicated mains circuits as my hi-if. Had I got a decent LPS instead of the SoTM sPS-500 it would have probably delivered what others were hearing.  Anyway this got me thinking about the wall wart of the AQVoxSE switch. A leaflet included with the switch made the very bold statement that the SMPS had been fully optimised and even much better and more expensive LPSs would not sound better. Well, a Sean Jacob’s DC proved that advice groundless and a DC3 even more so as improvements in SQ were massive. So that’s how the whole thing got started.

 

I’m currently having to stay home under quarantine laws, so this is a very pleasant way of spending a morning. Thanks for taking the time to read it🙂 

 

 

[mnuno10]

1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

Hey Todd,

You may be interested in what led to this ‘blooming’ of LPSs in my system. 

At the very start, I’d just received a new system after 13 years with an all-tube Balanced Audio Technology - Guarneri Homage system which i loved but hadn’t updated for 6 or 7 years. I’d decided to make a radical change and implement a fully digital amp/DAC  and Server combination for local and remote streaming. Quite a change for a tube-head with a large CD collection. 

 

My system was duly ordered but there was a hold up of the Devialet amps due to the massive Worldwide Core Infinity upgrade which involved new mother boards for all their Expert Pro product line, so my system only arrived 2 months later. Idle hands.....👿

So in the meantime I ordered a Michell Orbe, SME IV and Ortofon Cadenza Black to fill the empty shelf of my rack. 

I also ordered an Innuos Zenith SE with 10m of Synergistic Research Active SE ethernet cable to connect it up (My system uses SR power and speaker cables and I’ve been a ‘loom’ fan for years after my first experience with Shunyata)

 

My amp and speakers duly arrived and I spent a very relaxing afternoon setting up my turntable, arm and cartridge. The reason I ordered the Michell SME unit is that set up is all about calibrated measurements rather than the black magic of trying to get 4 independent springs to bounce uniformly in 3 dimensions. So having got all the set points and measurements exactly to their desired position I fired everything up, using a host of Mint Decca and EMI classical records and a couple of dozen 180g re-issues from HMV. 

Wow....this brought back memories. Firstly the smell of old LP covers, then the vinyl sound. There’s something about dragging a precisely ground diamond through a groove in some plastic  at a precisely regulated speed that has a sound character all of its own.  All the usual attributes were great....wide, deep soundstage, plenty of air, atmosphere and detail and that lovely vinyl warmth to the sound. So I’m Cooking on Gas!!  Loving the new amp and speakers and finding the return to vinyl pretty awesome. 

And then the Innuos Zenith SE arrived. I have 3 branches of large electronics chain stores close by so I could try a few different cables, routers, mesh networks etc  in order to find the best way to stream over a network.  In the end I found that a really clean wi-fi   link gave me the best SQ by a significant margin over 10m Synergistic ethernet cable. No-one more surprised than me, especially given what the SR cable had cost.😏

So with everything connected and run in, the new Zenith SE was sounding magical...better than I’d ever heard and way better than the Michell Orbe, which in comparison sounded ‘old’. The digital was quieter (of course),  but also faster (PRaT), more dynamic generally with much better micro-dynamics due to the silent background. It had better soundstage, better imaging specificity and focus and it was a joy to use ergonomically with its iPad user interface. So the TT and the 180 used records and 20-30 vinyl reissues very quickly became redundant, then idle.  Shame, because it looked very nice on my top shelf and I really enjoyed handling vinyl, but why go to all the trouble with record sleeves, TT clamps, arm queuing etc., when it sounds inferior?

At this point I was still learning the basics about digital hi-fi and I read on this august forum about the benefits of USB reclockers. I was utterly delighted with how my system was sounding.....nothing I didn’t like, but this is a hobby, so I went ahead and ordered an AQVox SE and a SoTM Tx-USBUltra, sPS-500 supply and some high-end USB cables on a 30 day trial basis. The units arrived and were installed on a spare anti-vibration amp base. Sound-wise I could hear some differences, but overall the magic was gone. It was simply not so much fun to listen to. After 400 hours and some minor improvements, but no overall breakthrough I contacted the dealer for a return. I really didn’t understand why I wasn’t getting SQ improvements as practically everyone else was reporting substantial upticks. With the unit removed and replaced by a (very good) Chord C line USB cable, the magic instantly returned.  I discussed this with the dealer and he wondered if the unit could have been faulty so he kindly offered to send a replacement, to be used with its dedicated SMPS wall wart.  The unit arrived, was cabled and plugged in and immediately the magic was gone. 

I wondered if it could be to do with the USB cables I was using so I got some other really good Tellurium units to try.  I got the new units and did a little comparison. The Tellurium USB cables were superior to the Chord...no question. So then I decided to compare music via the Tellurium direct compared to music via the TX-USBUltra. With the TX-USBUltra in circuit, no magic...with the Tellurium cable only....no magic. Hey, what the hell. The Tellurium was working fine before I plugged in the TX-USBUltra and now it wasn’t. But the TC-USBUltra wasn’t in circuit and was getting no data stream as I’d removed its USB input cable. So I pulled the mains plug on the TX-USBUltra and hey-presto...Magic back. 

My conclusion;  my system had a very distinct dislike for switched mode power supplies!  Especially those using the same dedicated mains circuits as my hi-if. Had I got a decent LPS instead of the SoTM sPS-500 it would have probably delivered what others were hearing.  Anyway this got me thinking about the wall wart of the AQVoxSE switch. A leaflet included with the switch made the very bold statement that the SMPS had been fully optimised and even much better and more expensive LPSs would not sound better. Well, a Sean Jacob’s DC proved that advice groundless and a DC3 even more so as improvements in SQ were massive. So that’s how the whole thing got started.

 

I’m currently having to stay home under quarantine laws, so this is a very pleasant way of spending a morning. Thanks for taking the time to read it🙂 

 

 

 

I think it is not only in your system. I've an IFI iPower(SMPS) powering my WDMyCloud that is way better than the one that came with WDMyCloud. But I notice a huge improvement in sound quality when IFI iPower is not plugged in the same distribution block as the rest of system. To me SMPS radiates lots of noise, that contaminate all the cabling/devices in the neighbourhood. So if someone can't afford an LPS to all the devices, I recommend plug the SMPS far, far way from the system.

[barrows]

2 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Hey Todd,

You may be interested in what led to this ‘blooming’ of LPSs in my system. 

At the very start, I’d just received a new system after 13 years with an all-tube Balanced Audio Technology - Guarneri Homage system which i loved but hadn’t updated for 6 or 7 years. I’d decided to make a radical change and implement a fully digital amp/DAC  and Server combination for local and remote streaming. Quite a change for a tube-head with a large CD collection. 

 

My system was duly ordered but there was a hold up of the Devialet amps due to the massive Worldwide Core Infinity upgrade which involved new mother boards for all their Expert Pro product line, so my system only arrived 2 months later. Idle hands.....👿

So in the meantime I ordered a Michell Orbe, SME IV and Ortofon Cadenza Black to fill the empty shelf of my rack. 

I also ordered an Innuos Zenith SE with 10m of Synergistic Research Active SE ethernet cable to connect it up (My system uses SR power and speaker cables and I’ve been a ‘loom’ fan for years after my first experience with Shunyata)

 

My amp and speakers duly arrived and I spent a very relaxing afternoon setting up my turntable, arm and cartridge. The reason I ordered the Michell SME unit is that set up is all about calibrated measurements rather than the black magic of trying to get 4 independent springs to bounce uniformly in 3 dimensions. So having got all the set points and measurements exactly to their desired position I fired everything up, using a host of Mint Decca and EMI classical records and a couple of dozen 180g re-issues from HMV. 

Wow....this brought back memories. Firstly the smell of old LP covers, then the vinyl sound. There’s something about dragging a precisely ground diamond through a groove in some plastic  at a precisely regulated speed that has a sound character all of its own.  All the usual attributes were great....wide, deep soundstage, plenty of air, atmosphere and detail and that lovely vinyl warmth to the sound. So I’m Cooking on Gas!!  Loving the new amp and speakers and finding the return to vinyl pretty awesome. 

And then the Innuos Zenith SE arrived. I have 3 branches of large electronics chain stores close by so I could try a few different cables, routers, mesh networks etc  in order to find the best way to stream over a network.  In the end I found that a really clean wi-fi   link gave me the best SQ by a significant margin over 10m Synergistic ethernet cable. No-one more surprised than me, especially given what the SR cable had cost.😏

So with everything connected and run in, the new Zenith SE was sounding magical...better than I’d ever heard and way better than the Michell Orbe, which in comparison sounded ‘old’. The digital was quieter (of course),  but also faster (PRaT), more dynamic generally with much better micro-dynamics due to the silent background. It had better soundstage, better imaging specificity and focus and it was a joy to use ergonomically with its iPad user interface. So the TT and the 180 used records and 20-30 vinyl reissues very quickly became redundant, then idle.  Shame, because it looked very nice on my top shelf and I really enjoyed handling vinyl, but why go to all the trouble with record sleeves, TT clamps, arm queuing etc., when it sounds inferior?

At this point I was still learning the basics about digital hi-fi and I read on this august forum about the benefits of USB reclockers. I was utterly delighted with how my system was sounding.....nothing I didn’t like, but this is a hobby, so I went ahead and ordered an AQVox SE and a SoTM Tx-USBUltra, sPS-500 supply and some high-end USB cables on a 30 day trial basis. The units arrived and were installed on a spare anti-vibration amp base. Sound-wise I could hear some differences, but overall the magic was gone. It was simply not so much fun to listen to. After 400 hours and some minor improvements, but no overall breakthrough I contacted the dealer for a return. I really didn’t understand why I wasn’t getting SQ improvements as practically everyone else was reporting substantial upticks. With the unit removed and replaced by a (very good) Chord C line USB cable, the magic instantly returned.  I discussed this with the dealer and he wondered if the unit could have been faulty so he kindly offered to send a replacement, to be used with its dedicated SMPS wall wart.  The unit arrived, was cabled and plugged in and immediately the magic was gone. 

I wondered if it could be to do with the USB cables I was using so I got some other really good Tellurium units to try.  I got the new units and did a little comparison. The Tellurium USB cables were superior to the Chord...no question. So then I decided to compare music via the Tellurium direct compared to music via the TX-USBUltra. With the TX-USBUltra in circuit, no magic...with the Tellurium cable only....no magic. Hey, what the hell. The Tellurium was working fine before I plugged in the TX-USBUltra and now it wasn’t. But the TC-USBUltra wasn’t in circuit and was getting no data stream as I’d removed its USB input cable. So I pulled the mains plug on the TX-USBUltra and hey-presto...Magic back. 

My conclusion;  my system had a very distinct dislike for switched mode power supplies!  Especially those using the same dedicated mains circuits as my hi-if. Had I got a decent LPS instead of the SoTM sPS-500 it would have probably delivered what others were hearing.  Anyway this got me thinking about the wall wart of the AQVoxSE switch. A leaflet included with the switch made the very bold statement that the SMPS had been fully optimised and even much better and more expensive LPSs would not sound better. Well, a Sean Jacob’s DC proved that advice groundless and a DC3 even more so as improvements in SQ were massive. So that’s how the whole thing got started.

 

I’m currently having to stay home under quarantine laws, so this is a very pleasant way of spending a morning. Thanks for taking the time to read it🙂 

 

 

I applaud you for not just following the crowd, and being willing to test every approach in your own system, and make changes based on your observations despite what other's may say about what sounds "better"!

Thanks for sharing this path...

 

On SMPS, yes many of them are a problem and should not be in the audio system.  But it is important to realize that all SMPS are not created equal.  Most SMPS are designed to be as affordable as possible, and only address noise enough to pass FCC regulations (in the US) on interference and not be high quality in terms which woudl affect audio systems.  But, sophisticated well designed SMPS can be low noise and high performance, so we should not just reject them out of hand.  I have been making some power supplies for my computer gear using very high performance medical SMPS modules, followed by some post filtering (capacitors) and then a discrete regulator circuit for the output, and these approaches produce results which are indistinguishable from that are very high performance linear supplies.  We can also note that DACs such as the EMM labs and the Mola Mole Tanbaqui both use SMPS without any problems, of course both of these companies have some pretty advanced engineers designing for them!

 

[Blackmorec]

1 minute ago, barrows said:

I applaud you for not just following the crowd, and being willing to test every approach in your own system, and make changes based on your observations despite what other's may say about what sounds "better"!

Thanks for sharing this path...

 

On SMPS, yes many of them are a problem and should not be in the audio system.  But it is important to realize that all SMPS are not created equal.  Most SMPS are designed to be as affordable as possible, and only address noise enough to pass FCC regulations (in the US) on interference and not be high quality in terms which woudl affect audio systems.  But, sophisticated well designed SMPS can be low noise and high performance, so we should not just reject them out of hand.  I have been making some power supplies for my computer gear using very high performance medical SMPS modules, followed by some post filtering (capacitors) and then a discrete regulator circuit for the output, and these approaches produce results which are indistinguishable from that are very high performance linear supplies.  We can also note that DACs such as the EMM labs and the Mola Mole Tanbaqui both use SMPS without any problems, of course both of these companies have some pretty advanced engineers designing for them!

 

Thoughtful and absolutely correct. We are talking about SMPSs that are unfit for high-end audio use, not all SMPSs in general. That’s an important and correct distinction to make. The term SMPS doesn’t mean bad, but is does mean paying attention to what you’re actually using and how it affects the sound. The real problem is that some SMPSs are very noisy and very detrimental to SQ. Those are the ones to avoid!  

 

BTW, the very heart of my system is powered by a SMPS......an obviously very very good one.  The Devialet, properly powered, supported, connected and set up for SAM is one of the finest amps I know for anything like sane money.  I have yet to fault it in over 1.5 years of enjoyment. It along with the speakers just keep betting better and better as the network improves.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

[Fourlegs]

15 minutes ago, barrows said:

On SMPS, yes many of them are a problem and should not be in the audio system.  But it is important to realize that all SMPS are not created equal.  Most SMPS are designed to be as affordable as possible, and only address noise enough to pass FCC regulations (in the US) on interference and not be high quality in terms which woudl affect audio systems.  But, sophisticated well designed SMPS can be low noise and high performance, so we should not just reject them out of hand.  I have been making some power supplies for my computer gear using very high performance medical SMPS modules, followed by some post filtering (capacitors) and then a discrete regulator circuit for the output, and these approaches produce results which are indistinguishable from that are very high performance linear supplies.  We can also note that DACs such as the EMM labs and the Mola Mole Tanbaqui both use SMPS without any problems, of course both of these companies have some pretty advanced engineers designing for them!

 

Sure but it rather depends on what you mean when you say that your SMPS build are "are indistinguishable from that are very high performance linear supplies." One would need to say which LPS you were thinking of and also whether you are only referring to measurements or to sound quality tests. Personally I have listened to DACs powered by high quality SMPS and the same DAC by very high performance linear supplies (I'm thinking DC4 when I say that) and the latter are soooo much better.

[barrows]

2 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

 

Sure but it rather depends on what you mean when you say that your SMPS build are "are indistinguishable from that are very high performance linear supplies." One would need to say which LPS you were thinking of and also whether you are only referring to measurements or to sound quality tests. Personally I have listened to DACs powered by high quality SMPS and the same DAC by very high performance linear supplies (I'm thinking DC4 when I say that) and the latter are soooo much better.

I develop high performance linear power supplies for audio products professionally, and am quite confident that these supplies are the equal of anything available from anywhere.  These supplies are evaluated both through measurements and by listening.  It really is not very difficult to design a state of the art linear power supply as long as the budget for parts is not limited, despite the cult like following for some power supplies out there...

 

If you heard a DAC sound better with a linear, the only reason for that would be that the SMPS used was not as good as it could be.  There is not magic at work here, power supply requirements and design and very well understood things.  Note though, that the SMPS based supply I was talking about would not be any more affordable as a product than a SOTA linear, so there is not "savings" available from designing a power supply this way, the advantages come in terms of size and efficiency.  Also there are some technical advantages to SMPS operating at higher than audio frequencies as the noise produced is well out of the audio band-although it is important to point out that any of the "problems" associated with either linear, or SM power supplies can be solved by good design.

[ASRMichael]

9 minutes ago, barrows said:

I develop high performance linear power supplies for audio products professionally, and am quite confident that these supplies are the equal of anything available from anywhere.  These supplies are evaluated both through measurements and by listening.  It really is not very difficult to design a state of the art linear power supply as long as the budget for parts is not limited, despite the cult like following for some power supplies out there...

 

If you heard a DAC sound better with a linear, the only reason for that would be that the SMPS used was not as good as it could be.  There is not magic at work here, power supply requirements and design and very well understood things.  Note though, that the SMPS based supply I was talking about would not be any more affordable as a product than a SOTA linear, so there is not "savings" available from designing a power supply this way, the advantages come in terms of size and efficiency.  Also there are some technical advantages to SMPS operating at higher than audio frequencies as the noise produced is well out of the audio band-although it is important to point out that any of the "problems" associated with either linear, or SM power supplies can be solved by good design.

Hi you mention you develop linear power supplies. Are they widely available to buy? If so, where? Cheers 

[barrows]

4 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Hi you mention you develop linear power supplies. Are they widely available to buy? If so, where? Cheers 

this is OT, I'll send a PM....

[MarkusBarkus]

I recall John Siau's (Benchmark) comments on SMPS have been mentioned before, but here is a link for convenience as fyi:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/152143111-audio-myth-switching-power-supplies-are-noisy

 

NB: I do not own any Benchmark gear, but two friends do, and it sounds excellent...for a lot less money than I have into my stuff. Reviews of Benchmark are excellent as well.

 

The Chord DAVE has an SMPS inside, right? Watts seems pretty adamant that's what he wants there. And I am aware of the built-to-a-price thread, so please don't bombard me. 😉 Yes, you can make most anything "better" if cost is no object. 
 

And to pimp for a minute: I have @barrows PS on my Sonore OM and it is excellent, visually and sonically. 

[genvirt]

On 10/15/2020 at 10:12 PM, Nenon said:

Some people are lucky enough to have fiber Internet. 

 

Hi Nenon, this is not really a thread for this, but just in case one of my friends use this equipment for obtain optic fiber internet when it not comes  in straight way, and report huge improvement of SQ. 
Maybe it can help:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tp-Link-Mc200Cm-Rj45-To-Multi-Mode-Sc-Fiber-Converter-NEW/274451308279?hash=item3fe6929ef7:g:iM8AAOSwurlfLFII
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1m-3m-LC-LC-Duplex-10-Gigabit-50-125-Multimode-Fiber-Optic-Jumper-Cable-Om3-10GB/142751989395?hash=item213cae7e93:g:XF4AAOSwzRFaermD

[cool_chris]

On 10/15/2020 at 8:27 PM, Nenon said:

 

It works really well, and I am trying to convince Sean to offer that. You can however request it like @Blackmorec did. 

I have done a lot of comparisons in my system, and every inch (or should I say every mm) of DC wire in my system is using the Mundorf silver/gold wire - the 15.5 AWG version where possible, and the 18 AWG at a couple places where I could not fit the thicker version. I have easily spent over $3K on this wire in my system. And it's totally worth it. 

@Blackmorec asked me if too much of this wire could become a problem and if he should get his LPS with the standard wire. My answer was to go with the Mundorf - it won't be too much. The more of the DC wire I have replaced, the better it got. The cool thing about the Mundorf silver/gold is that it does not have the lean/analytical/bright sound associated with silver wire. It's nothing like that in my opinion. This is of course my personal opinion. But I have also heard from tens of people who have built DC cables, and the feedback has been nothing but excellent. I haven't tried the wire in any other applications as I don't think it's a magic wand that improves everything. I may try multiple runs of it in a power cable one day (with some vibration damping and Bocchino or Furutech NCF connectors). 

 

One thing to make clear, though. As always, with cables, your system needs to be at a certain level to be able to hear those differences. And the better your system is, the more magnified the effects are. But they would not perform miracles on a system that is not transparent enough.

 

I would love to hear a Taiko Extreme server internally wired with the Mundorf silver/gold wire! :)

Hi Nenon

I asked Emile about that.

He is sure he has something better for DC wireing in Extreme than Mundorf SG wire.

I have no idea what that might be as I have used Mundorf 1,5 mm SG wire everywhere with fantastic results as you know .

I think it not a better wire he is using, but better in that application. 

Remember there are few hyper expensive Delund capacitors and Mundorf capacitors in the gigantic power section of the Extreme already so you might want to balance it a little for more transparent effects. 

 

[Fourlegs]

On 10/16/2020 at 4:03 PM, barrows said:

Also there are some technical advantages to SMPS operating at higher than audio frequencies as the noise produced is well out of the audio band-although it is important to point out that any of the "problems" associated with either linear, or SM power supplies can be solved by good design.

From your post it is obvious that I cannot compete with your technical or design expertise but on the 'well out of the audio band' noise point isn't it the case that just because the noise is well outside the audio band it does not mean that it it harmless or less harmful to sound quality? Indeed many on here are going to great lengths to reduce this high frequency noise because of its ability to create IMD if and when it finds its way into the analogue stages of the DAC. Nor does 'good design' appear to mean that the problems of the noise once created can always be fully mitigated or solved even in high end devices.

 

Many of us are turning to LPS designed by Sean Jacobs and others to power our streaming and other digital devices and it would indeed be interesting if there were equally effective SMPS alternatives even if as you say they are not necessarily cheaper.

[TheAttorney]

16 hours ago, Fourlegs said:

Many of us are turning to LPS designed by Sean Jacobs and others to power our streaming and other digital devices and it would indeed be interesting if there were equally effective SMPS alternatives even if as you say they are not necessarily cheaper.

Yes, please somebody point me to an SMPS that sounds as good as a DC4 or SR7DR, but that is 1/4 of their size and weight (and a lower price would be good too). I and many others would jump on it. I think people around hear "follow the crowd" in order to investigate new ideas, but we are each perfectly capable of making up our own minds as to what sounds good to our own ears.

[R1200CL]

@TheAttorney Not an SMPS, but the price may be acceptable. £400. It’s also quite small and low weight, and should be very close to SR7. I think many would be happy with a SR4T.
If around or below one ampere is acceptable, then I’m sure you know Uptone’s (SMPS) option. 

[soares]

Hi there. I don’t want to take any views on what is better as it might depend on lots of factors, but 2 weeks ago I tried an iFi x in my router it it made a positive jump from my HD plex  100. I was a little bit surprised as my former experiences with iFi older products were not very good.  My router is far away from my main equipment. I am using also 2 Farad and 2 LPS 1.2 in my system. 

[TheAttorney]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

@TheAttorney Not an SMPS, but the price may be acceptable. £400. It’s also quite small and low weight, and should be very close to SR7. I think many would be happy with a SR4T.
If around or below one ampere is acceptable, then I’m sure you know Uptone’s (SMPS) option. 

Thank you, but it's not quite what I'm after. I already have a variety of decent power supplies of different technologies (LPS/SMPS/Super caps) and my SR7 (XLSR) easily trumps all of them. I'm now looking at SJ's DC4 for another purpose, but it's big, heavy and expensive, so I'd be delighted in hearing about similarly rated power supplies that are smaller, lighter and ideally less expensive. And I don't care what the technology is as long as it delivers the goods.

 

This thread is primarily about direct personal experience, so phrases like "could", "should" and "in theory" are not as useful as a direct comparison. Input from designers like @barrows is always valuable and informative, but even better would be a response like "I've directly compared this small, light SMPS to a DC4 and it sounded just as good, if not better"

[charlesphoto]

1 hour ago, soares said:

Hi there. I don’t want to take any views on what is better as it might depend on lots of factors, but 2 weeks ago I tried an iFi x in my router it it made a positive jump from my HD plex  100. I was a little bit surprised as my former experiences with iFi older products were not very good.  My router is far away from my main equipment. I am using also 2 Farad and 2 LPS 1.2 in my system. 

 

I've had good success with the iFi AC iPurifiers plugged into my server closet power strip (a Supra with no surge). I use two, one at the beginning of the strip and then one halfway that separates the modem, main switch etc from the Roon server and oM's. I also have one each on my two dedicated lines for the front end of the system, and one on my office setup. I had two on my DAC V1 line for a it and one with the server, but found two on the server and one on the DAC was just a bit better as the server closet is on a really busy office circuit. Simple, inexpensive, easily moveable and testable, peace of mind from surge protection, and not a four figure beast sitting there with expensive unused outlets. 

 

The Uptone charger SMPS I find to be quite good, as good as the first gen Ifi wall warts at least, though limited to 7.5v. I'll have to look into the X version. The Sonore Power Supply that Barrows builds is really good as well, if somebody is looking for a US LPS instead of the PH wait or Sean Jacobs $$ (who built a really nice power cable for my Naim 160 that has a strange bulgin connector). But again limited to either 5 or 7v. I use the 7v with an SR black fuse and Shunyata NR V10 cable with my opticalrendu. 

[kennyb123]

On 10/20/2020 at 7:17 AM, charlesphoto said:

 

But again limited to either 5 or 7v. I use the 7v with an SR black fuse and Shunyata NR V10 cable with my opticalrendu. 

 

Shunyata's V14 Digital might be better in this application.  The V14D includes a different filter that comes from their medical division.  It's intended for "digital only" components (no analog stage).  I was able to compare the V14D to an NR V12 on the Farad Super3 powering my M-Scaler.  There was a noticeable reduction in the noise floor.  I'm using a V14D on the Farad Super3 powering my EtherRegen as well.  The V14D is priced at $250 and in my system it punches above its weight.  

 

[barrows]

On 10/20/2020 at 8:17 AM, charlesphoto said:

 

I've had good success with the iFi AC iPurifiers plugged into my server closet power strip (a Supra with no surge). I use two, one at the beginning of the strip and then one halfway that separates the modem, main switch etc from the Roon server and oM's. I also have one each on my two dedicated lines for the front end of the system, and one on my office setup. I had two on my DAC V1 line for a it and one with the server, but found two on the server and one on the DAC was just a bit better as the server closet is on a really busy office circuit. Simple, inexpensive, easily moveable and testable, peace of mind from surge protection, and not a four figure beast sitting there with expensive unused outlets. 

 

The Uptone charger SMPS I find to be quite good, as good as the first gen Ifi wall warts at least, though limited to 7.5v. I'll have to look into the X version. The Sonore Power Supply that Barrows builds is really good as well, if somebody is looking for a US LPS instead of the PH wait or Sean Jacobs $$ (who built a really nice power cable for my Naim 160 that has a strange bulgin connector). But again limited to either 5 or 7v. I use the 7v with an SR black fuse and Shunyata NR V10 cable with my opticalrendu. 

The Sonore Power supply could be available at different voltages on a custom order basis...  Anybody interested in that could send me a PM to discuss your needs.