A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[guiltyboxswapper]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Good news, the new Hdplex 300 watt feeding both 12 and 19 volts power to my server is very close in sound quality to the dual 200 watt configuration. I am not sure I could tell the two configurations apart in a blind test. Clearly the increased power capacity and design innovations in the new supply deliver.

 

 

I am first in line for the Hdplex 500w linear PSU, which is due very shortly.  Will ofcourse report back.

[lmitche]

32 minutes ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

Do you mind sharing which model Adnaco?  There's quite a few.  As mentioned the JCAT XE + Monoprice aren't a stable option.  

 

And thanks for the memory tip, gskillz 4266mhz b-die running at 3200mhz (and standard! spd profile otherwise) is a good step forward indeed.  

Unfortunately it's not that simple.

 

There are several Adnaco solutions that work depending on how many SFP ports you want, 1 to 4 is possible. The Adnaco USB remotes, Adnaco-R1USB30B, are always the same.  There are two PCIE cards available, the H1A with one port and the H2-01  with four ports. Everything can be ordered without any fiber cables or SFPs.

 

If you study their site you will see there are lots of other intriguing possibilities.

[guiltyboxswapper]

7 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Unfortunately it's not that simple.

 

There are several Adnaco solutions that work depending on how many SFP ports you want, 1 to 4 is possible. The Adnaco USB remotes, Adnaco-R1USB30B, are always the same.  There are two PCIE cards available, the H1A with one port and the H2-01  with four ports. Everything can be ordered without any fiber cables or SFPs.

 

If you study their site you will see there are lots of other intriguing possibilities.

 

There's a few combos that'll work for me no problem, thanks.  Did you modify the host PCIE card in order to power it, or simply run your system via HDPlex combo to power?

[Nsxturbo]

14 minutes ago, lmitche said:

There are several Adnaco solutions that work depending on how many SFP ports you want, 1 to 4 is possible. The Adnaco USB remotes, Adnaco-R1USB30B, are always the same.  There are two PCIE cards available, the H1A with one port and the H2-01  with four ports. Everything can be ordered without any fiber cables or SFPs.

I wonder if it is possible to use the R1USB30B on the transmitting end, with a usb cable from the Jcat XE USB PCIe card to a R1USB30B on the DAC end?
Any thoughts?

It would seem that since the R1USB30B is a transceiver that it wouldn’t matter and would work on either end.

It would be interesting to see how that compares to using Adnaco’s PCIe card.

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

 

There's a few combos that'll work for me no problem, thanks.  Did you modify the host PCIE card in order to power it, or simply run your system via HDPlex combo to power?

The Adnaco PCIE runs off the motherboard power. I have made no modifications.

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, Nsxturbo said:

I wonder if it is possible to use the R1USB30B on the transmitting end, with a usb cable from the Jcat XE USB PCIe card to a 

North Jersey

Close Modal

263 McLean Blvd.
Route 20 Retail Center
Paterson, NJ 07504

on the DAC end?
Any thoughts?

It would seem that since the R1USB30B is a transceiver that it wouldn’t matter and would work on either end.

It would be interesting to see how that compares to using Adnaco’s PCIe card.

The Adnaco devices transmit and receive PCIE bus level signals at bus speeds. As such, they need a real PCIE bus at one end or the other. Given this I would guess that the configuration you propose is unlikely work as the R1USB30B is not a full PCIE bus implementation or host as there is no OS, USB drivers . . . etc. Please write Adnaco to confirm.

 

You could use one of their remote PCIE bus extension solutions and plug a JCAT card into that for a galvanically isolated JCAT solution.

 

[Nsxturbo]

1 minute ago, lmitche said:

You could use one of their remote PCIE bus extension solutions and plug a JCAT card into that for a galvanically isolated JCAT solution.

I realized that after I looked closer at their solutions, seems like a decent possibility, depending how you power their remote PCIE expansion card.

[guiltyboxswapper]

4 minutes ago, Nsxturbo said:

I realized that after I looked closer at their solutions, seems like a decent possibility, depending how you power their remote PCIE expansion card.

 

Provided the fibre link can keep signal integrity, this might be worth a try to get the JCAT XE away from the "noisy" host at least, though i'm sure the host will still want powering as well as possible.  I'll enquire.

[kelvinwsy]

I switched from my 6700k Z170 mb to a Z490 10700k Server. 

My pcie1x Core Audio SHAAR USB card did not work

I happen to hv a PCie riser extension card. So I tried to use this

Pcie 1x plug into the PCie 16x bus on my Z490 mb.. Usb out to the extension card shown in image..

Power the extension riser with a spare ATX PSU I sm presently using to power my fsn controller and Outboard HDD ..

Then 5V dc LPSU power the SHAAR USB Card thru a SDD connector..

 

Hey Works ... Definitely better than the USB jacks on the Server

 

Then brought out my 2 header LH Labs Lightspeed USB cable with clean separate 5v DC power injection

Another jump in SQ.. 
It is ss good as my EtherRegen/Sotm Sm200Ultra Neo setup!

Then I used a 12v DC LPSU to inject clean power into the 6 pin PCie female plug on the riser card!

It sounds Better than my ER/SM200 setup!

 

You guys shuld try this with your JCAT USB Card😁👍

 

[kelvinwsy]

Here we go ! Really did do it this way😁

U can see the power leg of the LH Labs Lightspeed 2G usb cable plugged into the 5v LPSU and the signal leg coming outbofvthe SHAAR USB card

Instant connection when power on my HQplayer Server and music starts in 2 minutes

INSTEAD of 10min Ethernet connection . power   cycle thru my DAC , SM200 U neo , my external     OXCO Clock sync with my ER... what a PAIN😂

I noticed better dynamic drive on USB instead of all the Ethernet /USB conversion!

In my system USB is now KING provided u manage to separate signal from power . YMMV Of course

[Bricki]

14 hours ago, lmitche said:

Is it just me or do any of you also notice a SQ improvement with the latest version of Roon (build) 610?

 

It looks as though this version is distributing processing across more cores which could explain what I am hearing.

 

Larry

I noticed an improvement with 610 also but I am using Audiolinux 2.5 with isolated cores on a dual core machines... So it must be more than just core distribution because I only have one core for audio applications😁

[lmitche]

7 hours ago, Bricki said:

I noticed an improvement with 610 also but I am using Audiolinux 2.5 with isolated cores on a dual core machines... So it must be more than just core distribution because I only have one core for audio applications😁

The impact of removing the isolated cores may surprise you.

[Marcin_gps]

16 hours ago, kelvinwsy said:

I switched from my 6700k Z170 mb to a Z490 10700k Server. 

My pcie1x Core Audio SHAAR USB card did not work

I happen to hv a PCie riser extension card. So I tried to use this

Pcie 1x plug into the PCie 16x bus on my Z490 mb.. Usb out to the extension card shown in image..

Power the extension riser with a spare ATX PSU I sm presently using to power my fsn controller and Outboard HDD ..

Then 5V dc LPSU power the SHAAR USB Card thru a SDD connector..

 

Hey Works ... Definitely better than the USB jacks on the Server

 

Then brought out my 2 header LH Labs Lightspeed USB cable with clean separate 5v DC power injection

Another jump in SQ.. 
It is ss good as my EtherRegen/Sotm Sm200Ultra Neo setup!

Then I used a 12v DC LPSU to inject clean power into the 6 pin PCie female plug on the riser card!

It sounds Better than my ER/SM200 setup!

 

You guys shuld try this with your JCAT USB Card😁👍

 

I tried this, but I can't recommend this solution. Any PCIe extension is a step back in SQ... 

 

A good LPS into the cards + a  good PSU for the complete PC is the best solution.

 

Regards, 
Marcin

 

[luisma]

23 hours ago, lmitche said:

As promised, below please find an update to my project list posted on July 4th

Damn Larry you have been busy, this pandemic right?

If I may can I comment on your excellent report?

 

23 hours ago, lmitche said:

There are a lot of great online posts about which SFPs sound best. Which sound best here?

These are just the SFP+ correct? which hardware are you using to mount these? I am asking because IMO the hardware "could be" more critical to the SQ than the actual SFP. Also using 1GB SFP vs 10GB SFP+ could be better as well. The idea is to keep the laser emitter parts "emitting" on lower values and frequency range. This is just my take after testing RFI with SFP's. At the same time I can't guarantee the increase of RFI will actually detriment the SQ, no way to prove it

23 hours ago, lmitche said:

Team Group and Gskill

Thank you, any preference here

23 hours ago, lmitche said:

Test active AIO pump and fan combos with high power Intel based Hqplayer solution. Need to find a fan and pump combo where it is possible to control the pump speed as well as fan speed from one speed control. Are one, two or three fans best? Is pump vibration a factor in SQ?

Very interesting, pushing the EC modulators yes AIO cooling is ideal, that is my next project as well

23 hours ago, lmitche said:

No difference in SQ was observed between 8gb(2x4gb) of memory and 16gb(2x8gb) of memory. Nevertheless switching to 16gb (2x8gb) as a new standard makes sense as 1) 4gb modules are getting more difficult to find, and 2) 16gb is a more future proof solution by leaving room for expansion.

Roon recently updated their database, don't know if the actual structure or parts of the engine, don't know if this will affect SQ but I'm sure CPU usage was directly linked to database size which in the case of Linux based installations (yours and mine) was not so efficient as the Roon version running in Windows. I personally think Roon SQ has degraded a lot and seriously considering leaving HQP and moving out of Roon or looking for simpler alternative.

23 hours ago, lmitche said:

If one didn't know better, either supply delivers a musical and  enjoyable presentation. But yes, a dual LPS solution sounds best and is a worthwhile upgrade

I will be testing a Seasonic Fanless see how it performs

 

Thanks again Larry

 

 

[luisma]

22 hours ago, ray-dude said:

Emile noted the same over at WBF.

Could this be related to the database update?

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, luisma said:

Damn Larry you have been busy, this pandemic right?

If I may can I comment on your excellent report?

 

These are just the SFP+ correct? which hardware are you using to mount these? I am asking because IMO the hardware "could be" more critical to the SQ than the actual SFP. Also using 1GB SFP vs 10GB SFP+ could be better as well. The idea is to keep the laser emitter parts "emitting" on lower values and frequency range. This is just my take after testing RFI with SFP's. At the same time I can't guarantee the increase of RFI will actually detriment the SQ, no way to prove it

Thank you, any preference here

Very interesting, pushing the EC modulators yes AIO cooling is ideal, that is my next project as well

Roon recently updated their database, don't know if the actual structure or parts of the engine, don't know if this will affect SQ but I'm sure CPU usage was directly linked to database size which in the case of Linux based installations (yours and mine) was not so efficient as the Roon version running in Windows. I personally think Roon SQ has degraded a lot and seriously considering leaving HQP and moving out of Roon or looking for simpler alternative.

I will be testing a Seasonic Fanless see how it performs

 

Thanks again Larry

 

 

Hi Luisma,

 

Thanks for your comments. Here are some answers to your questions:

• Yes, the Adnacos run at bus speeds so require SFP+s (capable of 10 Gbps).
• There doesn't seem to be a major SQ difference between Gskill and Team Group.  Availability of bling free (sans disco lighting) modules is the issue.
• Yes, it looks like there is no avoiding water cooling with the Hqplayer EC modulators for PCM to DSD upsampling with either AMD or Intel CPUs. Maybe the biggest Noctua air coolers can do it, I don't know. PCM to PCM works fine with passive cooling however.
• Sorry to hear you don't like Roon.  I love it. Here it is run in NOS mode and it has never sounded better. SQ really depends on many dozens of factors external to Roon however.
• Seasonic is a good choice. Please let us know how your testing goes.

 

Larry

 

 

[guiltyboxswapper]

21 minutes ago, lmitche said:

• Yes, it looks like there is no avoiding water cooling with the Hqplayer EC modulators for PCM to DSD upsampling with either AMD or Intel CPUs. Maybe the biggest Noctua air coolers can do it, I don't know. PCM to PCM works fine with passive cooling however.

 

Can confirm https://www.amazon.co.uk/Noctua-NH-D15-SE-AM4-Premium-Dual-Tower/dp/B01NC06ZYT/ with my motherboard's BIOS set to "silent" cooling profile manages to keep the 3900X cool enough to run Poly-Sinc-XTR (non-2s) at DSD 512 rates, whilst remaining quiet.

[luisma]

55 minutes ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

Poly-Sinc-XTR (non-2s) at DSD 512

poli xtr is the modulator that for some reason distributes the load better across all cores, better than other filters on my core usage vs filter testing somewhere on the HQP thread. All poli's as a matter a fact are good. And before being more OT and being called out by Rajiv I will step out.

 

[guiltyboxswapper]

2 minutes ago, luisma said:

poli xtr is the modulator that for some reason distributes the load better across all cores, better than other filters on my core usage vs filter testing somewhere on the HQP thread. All poli's as a matter a fact are good. And before being more OT and being called out by Rajiv I will step out.

 

It does correct, but the other filters that typically target a few cores at high speed also run fine with fans at low rpms (quiet to silent).  

[luisma]

4 minutes ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

It does correct, but the other filters that typically target a few cores at high speed also run fine with fans at low rpms (quiet to silent).

But not with EC mods in my testing, but you are correct, with few cores 2C / 4T YES, sorry my bad did not read properly

[cat6man]

16 hours ago, Bricki said:

I noticed an improvement with 610 also but I am using Audiolinux 2.5 with isolated cores on a dual core machines... So it must be more than just core distribution because I only have one core for audio applications😁

 

i have a 7i7 NUC running audio-linux and euphony stylus.

what are the recommended settings for core isolation?

[ASRMichael]

I thought I would post this here also. 
 

My recent dedicated mains supply upgrade. (UK). 
 

Really pleased how this sounds. I used 6awg thick cable to CU & 10 AWG from CU to sockets. CU is located next to sockets. 
 

How does it sound, it’s really weird & hard to explain, but I’ll give it a try....when playing the music sounds silent! Seems nothing else is there a part from the music. Maybe others call this darker black grounds. There’s just an emptiness of everything a part from music. Told you hard to explain! Anyway really happy. 

I’m only 24 hours in & already hear benefits, & sure more to come. 

 

I’ve already asked the electrician to come back & add few more rods/spikes to get the 25ohms down to say 5 ohms. He’s thinking off creating a pit for each rod/spike to add magnesium sulfar, which will help with moisture/soil condition. 
 

One thing I would say is, I can’t believe I’ve waited this long to get this done. You can spend a lot of money on all different bits for your system costing £££ (lot), so in hindsight should have done this years ago. 
 

I’m coming to the end of a very lengthy 2 year journey on my digital quest! 
 

Sean Jacobs kindly added grounding posts to my sources. Does anyone know what material is best used for grounding cables? Casework ground for RF/EMI?

 

Disclaimer : Always use a qualified electrician to carry out electrical works. 

[kelvinwsy]

6 hours ago, Marcin_gps said:

I tried this, but I can't recommend this solution. Any PCIe extension is a step back in SQ... 

 

A good LPS into the cards + a  good PSU for the complete PC is the best solution.

 

Regards, 
Marcin

 

Hi Marcin does the JCAT XE need a driver for the Z570 and Z490 motherboards to recognize the USB card?

I had a USB 3.0 driver but this stop working with my latest Z490 motherboard 10700k PC!

Any ideas ?

[sandyk]

59 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

I’ve already asked the electrician to come back & add few more rods/spikes to get the 25ohms down to say 5 ohms. He’s thinking off creating a pit for each rod/spike to add magnesium sulfar, which will help with moisture/soil condition. 

 

 You sre unlikely to be able to achieve that low a resistance without a special grid as often used by Radio Amateurs and in Telephone Exchanges etc. Even then, that can be difficult in rocky areas.as we found in French's Forest Telephone Exchange in Sydney when we needed to upgrade the earthing. The additional earthing should also be on the side of the house that gets the least sun.

Alex

[MarkusBarkus]

4 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 You sre unlikely to be able to achieve that low a resistance without a special grid

...@ASRMichael, I agree with @sandyk that you may not get much lower, but that said, it's not a giant effort to try a star grounding config, with the pits and magnesium powder.
 

Sounds like your sparky is game and knows what you're trying to do and likely knows the rule of thumb on this has been rods should be farther apart than they are deep, tightly bonded with good clamps. I think we still use #8 copper back to the box here (US). Grounding: So basic but so helpful, right?