A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[soares]

7 hours ago, cool_chris said:

Sure 

Please contact direct user NENON. 

He is experienced DIY and if he has time he can try to help you to install PinkFaun clock in your Buffalo.

He is located in US not far from you.

 

Thank you so much Chris. I will contact Nenon. 
Best Jorge

[soares]

10 minutes ago, barrows said:

I would say, yes, definitely.  The oR is an entirely new design with many improvements over the uR besides the optical connection (which is also an advantage).

Hi Barrows, Tks for your reply. Not sure however if you have seen my earlier post about my specific configuration:

Router< RJ45 >oM <SFP> Buffalo 2016 <RJ45> Zen MKIII <RJ45> oM <SFP> eR <RJ45> uR <USB> iR <USB> DAC

While I am confident that the oR is better than the uR,      I am unsure about the final results with so many upstream efforts aiming at getting the most clean signal before the uR. So I would also appreciate your views regarding this specific scenario. Thank you, Jorge

[soares]

29 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

 

I know cool_chris has some good advice for making improvements further up the chain. Assuming that is done (or isn't) I think your question still stands - would swapping the ultraRendu out for an opticalRendu be a sound quality upgrade? Significant? and better still to then use the etherRegen in place of the opticalModule?

Ive read some differing opinions on how significant these changes might be, can anyone chime in with their experiences?

Tks for taking up my post. Yes I also have seen quite different views not just at this forum. Both eR and oR are incredible devices, and having put so much efforts to have the cleanest possible signal before the uR, I am not sure if the oR would be redundant. But again the iR makes a difference... So what to say ? 😃

[barrows]

24 minutes ago, soares said:

Hi Barrows, Tks for your reply. Not sure however if you have seen my earlier post about my specific configuration:

Router< RJ45 >oM <SFP> Buffalo 2016 <RJ45> Zen MKIII <RJ45> oM <SFP> eR <RJ45> uR <USB> iR <USB> DAC

While I am confident that the oR is better than the uR,      I am unsure about the final results with so many upstream efforts aiming at getting the most clean signal before the uR. So I would also appreciate your views regarding this specific scenario. Thank you, Jorge

Point being:  The Renderer is the last device in the (Network) chain, and it is the only upstream device connected to the DAC.  The DAC is the most sensitive component in the chain because it is a mixed signal device-that is the DAC is both a digital AND an analog component.  The Renderer creates the USB signal, and the cleaner and lower noise that USB signal is, the better the DAC will perform.  Hence, the capability of the Renderer is very, very important.  The oR has many improvements over the uR, it is not just about the optical isolation.

[soares]

22 minutes ago, barrows said:

Point being:  The Renderer is the last device in the (Network) chain, and it is the only upstream device connected to the DAC.  The DAC is the most sensitive component in the chain because it is a mixed signal device-that is the DAC is both a digital AND an analog component.  The Renderer creates the USB signal, and the cleaner and lower noise that USB signal is, the better the DAC will perform.  Hence, the capability of the Renderer is very, very important.  The oR has many improvements over the uR, it is not just about the optical isolation.

I see your point. Thank you for the clarification. If I am not wrong, there’s a 30 money back policy, so I won’t risk anything. 😊

Kind regards, 

Jorge

[austinpop]

On 11/18/2020 at 8:13 PM, soares said:

Would be grateful for some advice. 
My current configuration:
Router< RJ45 >oM <SFP> Buffalo 2016 <RJ45> Zen MKIII <RJ45> oM <SFP> eR <RJ45> uR <USB> iR <USB> DAC

The sound is absolutely fantastic, using 2x Farad, 2x LPS 1.2 and 2x sBoosters + ultra.

However we all want to improve what we’re getting, so I am considering to sell my uR and get an oR. Should I expect a significant SQ upgrade?

Thank you for your views.

Best, 

Jorge

 

Hi Jorge,

 

Wow, that is a convoluted chain, and this coming from a (reformed) spaghetti lover. 🙂

 

Why not replace this entire chain: 

• oM <SFP> eR <RJ45> uR <USB> iR, plus 4 PSUs feeding these, with
• an Innuos Phoenix?

So you'd have: Router< RJ45 >oM <SFP> Buffalo 2016 <RJ45> Zen MKIII <USB> Phoenix <USB> DAC. Use good LPS's on the Router, oM, and Buffalo 2016.

 

When you compare the costs, don't forget to factor in the fewer power cables and fewer Ethernet cables.

[Fourlegs]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

Why not replace this entire chain: 

• oM <SFP> eR <RJ45> uR <USB> iR, plus 4 PSUs feeding these, with
• an Innuos Phoenix?

 

Plus one for this suggestion. I had the Phoenix in my system on home demo for 5 weeks and was so impressed with the improvement that I decided to get the Statement (which effectively has the Phoenix built in plus more).

[BigAlMc]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Hi Jorge,

 

Wow, that is a convoluted chain, and this coming from a (reformed) spaghetti lover. 🙂

 

Why not replace this entire chain: 

• oM <SFP> eR <RJ45> uR <USB> iR, plus 4 PSUs feeding these, with
• an Innuos Phoenix?

So you'd have: Router< RJ45 >oM <SFP> Buffalo 2016 <RJ45> Zen MKIII <USB> Phoenix <USB> DAC. Use good LPS's on the Router, oM, and Buffalo 2016.

 

When you compare the costs, don't forget to factor in the fewer power cables and fewer Ethernet cables.

 

Hi Jorge,

 

+1 on this too.

 

I started writing something similar yesterday but changed my mind as I was worried I'd offend you.

 

Especially if you are considering upgrading the clock in your Buffalo then having so many devices downstream aimed at isolating it from your DAC doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.

 

To Barrows point the oR is probably a good incremental upgrade in your current chain. But rationalising the chain into higher end components such as Phoenix etc is another option.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[ssh]

12 hours ago, barrows said:

I would say, yes, definitely.  The oR is an entirely new design with many improvements over the uR besides the optical connection (which is also an advantage).

Hi Barrows,

 

What do you think is the more significant improvement: uR to oR vs. oR to Signature Rendu?

Thanks!

[MarkusBarkus]

6 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Hi Jorge,

 

+1 on this too.

 

I started writing something similar yesterday but changed my mind as I was worried I'd offend you.

Ditto, Jorge. I have the OM on the first floor with modem, etc. and a 35' FO cable to the basement audio room. 
 

When I had the PF Buffalo mod done, I moved that switch very close to the Aurender streamer, connected via Sablon 2020 ethernet.

 

Then, it's "the old in/out" with the Phoenix, and off to Chordville HMS and DAVE. Lush^3s and Wave BNCs. Good LPSs on everything, which you already have.

 

It's a more streamlined route, and it sounds terrific. You already like your sound, but if you're considering the PF route, it might be at least worth considering the "Phoenix Solution." Happy Listening!

[cool_chris]

All I know is that whoever went the Buffalo 2016 route and upgrated it with Nenon proposed Mundorf gold DC wires as well as the Pink Faun Ultra Clock was amazed with the result including fantastic review by Austinpop.

There is no return. Addictive sound. 

 

As Nenon already mentioned :

1 Pink Faun Ultra Buffalo 2016 was much better than 4 Buffalo 2016 stacked !

I was able to test this in my system and I had to agree. Now I have 4 Buffalows.

 

Timing is not everything in Audio but it is by far the best way of improving everything in Audio.

 

 

[barrows]

3 hours ago, ssh said:

Hi Barrows,

 

What do you think is the more significant improvement: uR to oR vs. oR to Signature Rendu?

Thanks!

There are too many differences to be able to point out a single one.  Firstly, the optical isolation is probably the biggest, but that is conjecture.  There are lot more isolated power domains on the main board, and most of these power domains are powered with LT 3045 regulators now, the uR uses older regulator designs (still very good linear regs, but not as good as the newer LT 3045s).  Additionally the oR has two Femtosecond level clocks, to handle all clocking duties, where the uR has only a single Femto level clock.  There are many other improvements, but I do not want to spell out the all the details to our competitors publicly.  Suffice it to say, there are many, many improvements besides the optical input.  The Signature Rendu SEoptical is even better, but of course that comes at a much higher cost.

[fds]

Any experiences out there with inserting a Phoenix between OpticalRendu and DAC? 

[barrows]

1 minute ago, fds said:

Any experiences out there with inserting a Phoenix between OpticalRendu and DAC? 

Here is the thing.  The USB output of the oR is already designed to be as good as it can be, and IMO, adding additional USB fixer upper devices would be redundant.  The USB output of the oR is already clocked by a dedicated Femto level oscillator, and the USB power supply is already ultra low noise with a dedicated LT 3045 regulator and appropriate decoupling right at the USB output jack.  I would advise that one connect the output of the oR directly to the DAC with the very best USB cable one can get their hands on, and leave it at that. And if your DAC uses USB power, make sure your USB cable pays specific attention to the power leg design, and keep the cable as short as is reasonable to keep power delivery low impedance/inductance. 

[soares]

On 11/19/2020 at 11:41 PM, austinpop said:

 

Hi Jorge,

 

Wow, that is a convoluted chain, and this coming from a (reformed) spaghetti lover. 🙂

 

Why not replace this entire chain: 

• oM <SFP> eR <RJ45> uR <USB> iR, plus 4 PSUs feeding these, with
• an Innuos Phoenix?

So you'd have: Router< RJ45 >oM <SFP> Buffalo 2016 <RJ45> Zen MKIII <USB> Phoenix <USB> DAC. Use good LPS's on the Router, oM, and Buffalo 2016.

 

When you compare the costs, don't forget to factor in the fewer power cables and fewer Ethernet cables.

Hi Rajiv! Sorry for the late reply. I truly appreciate your suggestions, but I am unsure if it will be a better configuration for 2 reasons: the first is the Zen - at least in my system the uR delivers a better SQ than the Zen; the second is  that the eR s also delivers a better SQ (than the Buffalo). So replacing these with a Phoenix  won’t probably achieve the same  SQ. Perhaps with a Zenith I things could be different, but again I think the eR would be essential. It really transfigured my system. I (and also my wife) would love to get rid of the spaghetti but the truth is that each device on my chain has a cumulative effect on the final SQ. Another option as also was suggested would be the PF clock for the Buffalo. But again probably just the eR would be redundant. So lot’s of food for thought in the coming weeks. Thank you again. Jorge

[soares]

On 11/20/2020 at 2:14 AM, Fourlegs said:

 

Plus one for this suggestion. I had the Phoenix in my system on home demo for 5 weeks and was so impressed with the improvement that I decided to get the Statement (which effectively has the Phoenix built in plus more).

Thank you for legs. Please see the reply to Rajiv.

[soares]

On 11/20/2020 at 2:35 AM, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi Jorge,

 

+1 on this too.

 

I started writing something similar yesterday but changed my mind as I was worried I'd offend you.

 

Especially if you are considering upgrading the clock in your Buffalo then having so many devices downstream aimed at isolating it from your DAC doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.

 

To Barrows point the oR is probably a good incremental upgrade in your current chain. But rationalising the chain into higher end components such as Phoenix etc is another option.

 

Cheers,

Alan

Hi Alan! There’s no space here to be offended, just grateful for all your kind inputs. Agreed that if I decide to to upgrade the Buffalo I won’t need so much spaghetti! 🤗. But for the time being it’s one or another. Can’t really afford to have it modded and also buy a Phoenix! 😃

Tks again! Jorge

[soares]

On 11/20/2020 at 8:52 AM, MarkusBarkus said:

Ditto, Jorge. I have the OM on the first floor with modem, etc. and a 35' FO cable to the basement audio room. 
 

When I had the PF Buffalo mod done, I moved that switch very close to the Aurender streamer, connected via Sablon 2020 ethernet.

 

Then, it's "the old in/out" with the Phoenix, and off to Chordville HMS and DAVE. Lush^3s and Wave BNCs. Good LPSs on everything, which you already have.

 

It's a more streamlined route, and it sounds terrific. You already like your sound, but if you're considering the PF route, it might be at least worth considering the "Phoenix Solution." Happy Listening!

Thank you Markus! Probably the way to go! Jorge

[soares]

On 11/20/2020 at 1:21 PM, barrows said:

Here is the thing.  The USB output of the oR is already designed to be as good as it can be, and IMO, adding additional USB fixer upper devices would be redundant.  The USB output of the oR is already clocked by a dedicated Femto level oscillator, and the USB power supply is already ultra low noise with a dedicated LT 3045 regulator and appropriate decoupling right at the USB output jack.  I would advise that one connect the output of the oR directly to the DAC with the very best USB cable one can get their hands on, and leave it at that. And if your DAC uses USB power, make sure your USB cable pays specific attention to the power leg design, and keep the cable as short as is reasonable to keep power delivery low impedance/inductance. 

Well Barrows, at least with the uR and with my configuration I feel that the iR delivers more meat to the sound. So probably a Phoenix will also improve things and in a much larger scale.

It would be interesting to also know  if there is any difference (SQ wise) between an eR  + uR and eR + oR. That’s the one million dollar question. 😂

[cool_chris]

1 hour ago, soares said:

Well Barrows, at least with the uR and with my configuration I feel that the iR delivers more meat to the sound. So probably a Phoenix will also improve things and in a much larger scale.

It would be interesting to also know  if there is any difference (SQ wise) between an eR  + uR and eR + oR. That’s the one million dollar question. 😂

 

I am sure many of us would love to answer that question for much less than a one  million dollar so you can save.

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, soares said:

Hi Rajiv! Sorry for the late reply. I truly appreciate your suggestions, but I am unsure if it will be a better configuration for 2 reasons: the first is the Zen - at least in my system the uR delivers a better SQ than the Zen; the second is  that the eR s also delivers a better SQ (than the Buffalo). So replacing these with a Phoenix  won’t probably achieve the same  SQ. Perhaps with a Zenith I things could be different, but again I think the eR would be essential. It really transfigured my system. I (and also my wife) would love to get rid of the spaghetti but the truth is that each device on my chain has a cumulative effect on the final SQ. Another option as also was suggested would be the PF clock for the Buffalo. But again probably just the eR would be redundant. So lot’s of food for thought in the coming weeks. Thank you again. Jorge

I suspect you might be surprised, but it’s your call. Good luck with your next steps!

[HumanMedia]

2 hours ago, soares said:

It would be interesting to also know  if there is any difference (SQ wise) between an eR  + uR and eR + oR. That’s the one million dollar question. 😂

 

While Im burning in my PlanetTech SFPs, Ive been going back and forth to compare between an optical connection and an ethernet connection into the EtherRegen to contrast the difference (then on to an UltraRendu).  Just doing this the difference is an eye opener. There is not a clear cut winner in all respects but there is definitely a noticeable difference. So I will go out on a limb and say YES - there will be a difference between eR  + uR and eR + oR. However will it be an improvement? I cant answer that as its so system dependent, plus finding the right sounding SFP is another chapter in getting the sound to your taste.

 

Oh and another finding. I had a USB tweak between the UltraRendu downstream to the MScaler. It was a definite improvement. However with the optical connection, what ever that tweak was doing is no longer needed, in fact it sounds worse with the tweak in place with an upstream optical connection. So changing something upstream made the downstream tweak not just irrelevant but a negative. Im just thinking about that IsoRegen...

 

Plus from the parts mentioned the outgoing USB in the OpticalRendu sounds like the parts list for the Phoenix. Im not saying its as good as, but as Barrows suggests, you might find the OpticalRendu output by itself is actually better than having an IsoRegen in the chain. Or like me, by making a tweak upstream, the IsoRegen is less necessary.

 

 

 

 

[Tatomek7]

On 11/20/2020 at 2:52 PM, MarkusBarkus said:

When I had the PF Buffalo mod done, I moved that switch very close to

I did the same with positive results. On the other side I have eR and it's connected with 2  Buffalos ( one PF moded ) with fiber. 

[charlesphoto]

On 11/15/2020 at 10:27 PM, cool_chris said:

So 1321 on the pucture is much closer to planetech, but not as mechanical sounding.

Also this one has very good focuse and authority. Not as good as Startech but I think it is a great balance of all 3 in 1 SFP.

 

So what you get in 1321 is about  80% of detail focuse and authotity that Startech has.

90% of what Planetech offers being very well balanced in SQ.

80% of space and delicacy that is in 1324 without being harsh.

 

And it is do cheap that it is no brainer to get. I paid 20 Euro for 1321 SfP so 40 in total for a pair. 

 

I have collected few dozens of SFPs to find the one for me .

 

Choice of SFP is one of the biggest SQ changer you can have. 

It has much bigger effect than most of things we do.

 

 

Just installed the 1321's over the 1324's I had and I would say, without doing A/B the top end is less harsh. Playing violins now and sounds great. Perhaps a bit less detail but seemingly a bit more musical and less in your face. They'll stay in place. 

[adamaley]

On 11/16/2020 at 8:55 AM, charlesphoto said: