A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[brother love]

3 hours ago, ray-dude said:

I'm still in the Macgyver stage...I had a machinist friend custom machine a bunch of bowls of various dimensions, I snagged a variety of precision ball bearings of different hardness and precision, and experimented with a bunch of different polishing techniques.  Add in a couple trips to Home Depot and the local tile shop to get smooth ceramic tiles and smooth marble platforms, and things got pretty obsessive around here for a while.

 

I appreciate your efforts, as I followed the thread below & Barry Diament's website. As a budget audiophile, I went the "cheap bastard" route utilizing 1st wood base layer (w/ floor spikes for speakers), kitchen cabinet chrome knobs, 1/2" chrome ball bearings, marble tile, 2nd wood base layer. I liked the results & still have this vibration control method under my transmission line speakers. I liked it under my amp & dac too, but any cable changes, etc. always ended up causing the ball bearings to slip out, thus requiring extensive redo. I even tried the bicycle tube method, but couldn't detect much improvement.

 

I currently use wood bases w/ vibrapods for amp & dac, & wood base w/ vibrapod cones for music server laid horizontal.

 

 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, Peter Avgeris said:

Hi Michael. Thank you for your message. I do not think that low power cpus are necessarily better than low power ones. I have observed that higher clock speeds lead to increased dynamics & liveliness. But I cannot link the power to this benefit. Power is the product of voltage by current. Voltage is the same. There cannot be any proof at all that high current leads to better sound. On the contrary lower current *has* many advantages against high power but again this does not necessarily mean better SQ. I hope that you will agree on this. 

 

What I have observed without hesitation and exception so far is that splitting processes in more than one core, hyperthreading and turbo boost lead to worse sound. 

 

I am now using a high power Xeon CPU, originally quad core running with 2 cores at the highest speed that can climb to. It is 3.6GHz. It is a 135W TDP cpu but does not draw any considerable amount of power. I am not running HQPlayer but only Euphony/Stylus. I plan to build my linear power supplies during the next 2 months with absolutely crazy characteristics. It is then that I will have the final results. The Seasonic PSUs that I am using sound very good but of course not up to the level of the best linear supplies. 

But again, I can't link higher current to higher SQ. The headroom is what really matters and the ability of the power supply to provide the required current. I hope you will agree on this... 

 

Peter - it is as simple as this:

Once you replace the Seasonic with a really good quality LPS, you can forget every test that you have done with the Seasonic. This is what @ASRMichael was trying to tell you. We've been through all that in the past years. Seems like you have some catching up to do.

 

[Peter Avgeris]

13 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Peter - it is as simple as this:

Once you replace the Seasonic with a really good quality LPS, you can forget every test that you have done with the Seasonic. This is what @ASRMichael was trying to tell you. We've been through all that in the past years. Seems like you have some catching up to do.

 

No, I don't have only some catching up to do. I think that I have quite a lot to do. The linear supply is going to be the final step. I am sure that you have gained too much from this step. I need to go to crazy levels of performance of LPS and for this purpose I have left it for the finish line. 

[bobfa]

36 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Peter - it is as simple as this:

Once you replace the Seasonic with a really good quality LPS, you can forget every test that you have done with the Seasonic. This is what @ASRMichael was trying to tell you. We've been through all that in the past years. Seems like you have some catching up to do.

 

I am amazed at what I find just playing around.  Add some cores here, Optane Drive there, Extended Temperature RAM and pretty soon you have something that sounds great..    Power Supplies are a rather interesting problem.  I am in the middle of the PS dance, it is a crazy time for me.  

 

bob

 

 

[Nenon]

1 minute ago, Peter Avgeris said:

No, I don't have only some catching up to do. I think that I have quite a lot to do. The linear supply is going to be the final step. I am sure that you have gained too much from this step. I need to go to crazy levels of performance of LPS and for this purpose I have left it for the finish line. 

 

After seeing some of your tube equipment, I expect nothing but the best from you. 

Yes, the power supply is the most important component. You can't go wrong with spending 2-4 times more on the power supply than the computer. A good power supply can make a bad computer sound good, but I am not so sure of the opposite. 

Unfortunately, the stuff that works well for analog, does not necessarily work so good for digital. That's why the best power supplies and streamers are from highly specialized shops, not from the big analog giants in the industry. 

Looking forward to your power supply experiments. I wonder if it would fit through my front door (saying that in a good way) :). 

[seeteeyou]

Rather than paying a grand for a chassis that's coming from a place where the second wave of Corona fun might rock and roll, we could also consider going Into the Woods with all kinda Mundorf caps / resistors as well as Furutech FI-06 NCF inlets

 

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/3027-new-dedicated-computers-and-new-case/page-2

https://resources.mini-box.com/online/PWR-M4-ATX/software/M4-ATX-installer.exe

https://resources.mini-box.com/online/PWR-M4-ATX/PWR-M4-ATX-manual.pdf

https://www.mini-box.com/M4-ATX-SFX-ATX-enclosure

https://www.mini-box.com/M4-ATX-HV

https://www.mini-box.com/M4-ATX

 

Regarding cooling and powering the CPU, we could get 8 + 8 pin (i.e. a pair of) CPU power connectors on some ToTL motherboards while a little something coming later from Noctua might have some potential

 

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cases_cooling/noctua_plans_to_release_a_fanless_heatsink_later_this_year/1

 

[Peter Avgeris]

5 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

After seeing some of your tube equipment, I expect nothing but the best from you. 

Yes, the power supply is the most important component. You can't go wrong with spending 2-4 times more on the power supply than the computer. A good power supply can make a bad computer sound good, but I am not so sure of the opposite. 

Unfortunately, the stuff that works well for analog, does not necessarily work so good for digital. That's why the best power supplies and streamers are from highly specialized shops, not from the big analog giants in the industry. 

Looking forward to your power supply experiments. I wonder if it would fit through my front door (saying that in a good way) :). 

Thanks a lot for your comment. Yes, I will try my best for the LPS. You can't go wrong spending 4 times the cost of a computer for its power supplies but you surely go right spending considerably more. The computer costs nothing, unfortunately the p/s unit costs dramatically higher. It's exactly like building a transistor amplifier, no difference at all. I planned to do this at the final step because I wanted to have first some good results. 

So far my best upgrade was the switch to Euphony/Stylus in terms of software. In terms of hardware my best upgrade was the network upgrade with double switches, routers and ethernet cables. 

Did you manage to get into your hands the Apacer RDIMM chips? I haven't been able to power up the Asus motherboard with the double 4210 cpus. We need to finish this project as well... 

[BigAlMc]

Holy crap! The Buffalo should come with a warning. That's some size for a switch. I've got items on my rack that aren't as big as this! 😬

 

 

[BigAlMc]

3 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

Holy crap! The Buffalo should come with a warning. That's some size for a switch. I've got items on my rack that aren't as big as this! 😬

 

 

 

Is the Melco S100 that size?

[seeteeyou]

Melco S100

https://www.melco-audio-masters.com/uploads/1/0/1/5/101505220/mel_2073_s100_a4_2pp_info_sheet_v3.pdf#page=2

Quote

215×61×269mm
2.5kg

 

Buffalo BS-GS2016

https://www.buffalo.jp/product/detail/bs-gs2016.html

Quote

330×43×231mm
2.2kg

 

BTW, we could download of copy of bsgs_a100.exe here in order to retrieve the default config of BS-GS2016/A

 

https://www.buffalo.jp/support/download/detail/?dl_contents_id=4241

 

Then extract that downloaded file with 7-Zip and simply restore the config with that file BS-GS2016_A_default_config.bin afterwards.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, BigAlMc said:

The Buffalo

 

Isn't the word "Buffalo" warning enough? 😎 

[BigAlMc]

2 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Isn't the word "Buffalo" warning enough? 😎 

 

True enough 😂

[BigAlMc]

38 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

BTW, we could download of copy of bsgs_a100.exe here in order to retrieve the default config of BS-GS2016/A

 

https://www.buffalo.jp/support/download/detail/?dl_contents_id=4241

 

Then extract that downloaded file with 7-Zip and simply restore the config with that file BS-GS2016_A_default_config.bin afterwards.

[BigAlMc]

Thanks @seeteeyou,

 

What does the above mean?

 

Sorry but I clearly havent researched this one enough. As evidenced by my shock at the size of it 🙄

 

Why do I need to mess with firmware?

 

Cheers,

Alan

[seeteeyou]

You're very welcomed @BigAlMc and I was referring to @Nenon's question regarding the difference(s) between the relative affordable BS-GS2016 & somewhat pricier BS-GS2016/A here

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/634/?tab=comments#comment-1031007

 

It's also mentioned here earlier this month, they're also having fun with Buffalo

 

http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-16891-post-368260.html#pid368260

 

Basically restore the default config of BS-GS2016/A, change the speed of specific port to 100Mbps only, then those settings should be getting even closer to what could be found on Melco S100.

[BigAlMc]

1 minute ago, seeteeyou said:

Basically restore the default config of BS-GS2016/A, change the speed of specific port to 100Mbps only, then those settings should be getting even closer to what could be found on Melco S100.

 

Love it!

 

Will do my reading. Like I probably should have done before ordering the damn thing. But let's not dwell on that.

 

Not in a hurry to do anything. So plenty time to read up on it before I start tinkering around.

 

Thanks again for the info.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[seeteeyou]

No problem Alan.

 

Now let's take a quick look at this if we're interested

 

https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Antoine-s-system?pid=93812#pid93812

Quote

Managed to order it from Japan.

 

I checked the latest prices and it's like 18,000 yen after that weekly 6% off discount, IMHO that particular price tag is pretty hefty when compared to what the French were talking about a few hours ago while Google Cache showed me this

 

https://pcandco.bzh/index.php?id_product=3587&rewrite=buffalo-bs-gs2016-commutateur-reseau-gere-l2-l3-gigabit-ethernet-10-100-1000-noir&controller=product

http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-16891-post-373198.html#pid373198

Quote

Je viens d'avoir le revendeur pcandco.bzh au téléphone, il m'a indiqué qu'il a du faire une grosse commande de 2016 et 2008 car il était en rupture de stock et qu'il n'avait jamais eu autant de demande pour ces modèles! Donc il va y avoir du délais.

 

Basically at least some retailers might still be able to find BS-GS2016 somewhere, though we couldn't tell if they're happy to honor the same price again.

 

Maybe it doesn't hurt to wait and see, then some hot deals could still be scored. Other than that, there's always something called "Plan B" from Japan and I already explained how to get things done before. It used to be a sweeter deal @ 10% off but recently they kept changing that number

 

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/lp/campaign/sale/en/

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/632/?tab=comments#comment-1027665

 

The switch itself is like 170 bucks, add a few dollars for the domestic shipping from the retailer to the Shopping Proxy Service in Japan. Their Buyer Protection Plan will also cost a few dollars, then finally add international shipping / customs on top of everything. In the end we'll end up paying more than $200 for each BS-GS2016 no matter what.

 

Some of them seemed to be showing "In Stock" but there's no guarantee if they're actually able to fulfill an order, though it doesn't hurt to keep trying

 

https://product.rakuten.co.jp/product/-/83e51dfcf2063eebb7fa8e9ef6fa3b0b/item/

Quote

 

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/tokka-com/4981254022504/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/ec-current/4981254022504/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/try3/4981254022504/

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https://biccamera.rakuten.co.jp/item/4981254022504/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/thinkrich/ss4981254022504/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/outletplaza/40000430156/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/radicalbase/4981254022504/

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https://item.rakuten.co.jp/akibamac/4981254022504/

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https://item.rakuten.co.jp/ecjoy/3718135/

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https://item.rakuten.co.jp/murauchi-dvd/4981254022504/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/edenki/ed2596034/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/gooddayshop/as-4981254022504/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/ecodirect/a4981254022504/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/pc-express/4981254022504/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/yourstyle/your4-9812540225-jp-04/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/newmon/10001095/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/nf/ao-bs-gs2016/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/cnfr/ao-bs-gs2016/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/fami2/4981254022504/

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https://item.rakuten.co.jp/rcmdse/an-4981254022504/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/denchiya-bekkan/bs-gs2016/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/auc-orangetokei/ds-1243319/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/gooddayshop/ds-1243319/

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https://item.rakuten.co.jp/pcexpress-mobile/4981254022504/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/tokusan-hin/ds-1243319/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/tokusan-hin-2/ds-1243319/

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https://item.rakuten.co.jp/goodstock/ds-1243319/

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https://item.rakuten.co.jp/cyberbay/ds-1243319/

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https://item.rakuten.co.jp/youplan/100000070369-5/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/1bankanwebshop/ds-1243319/

https://item.rakuten.co.jp/1bankanwebshop/zzds-1243319/

 

 

Not that of a good idea and therefore I don't think there will be "hoarding" or anything like that, though I'd like to ask you guys for a favor if you're planning to acquire multiple switches.

 

Many of us already tried 2 (or more) switches in series with positive results but connecting multiple switches in parallel (i.e. teaming for Windows / link aggregation for Linux) could also be worth a try. Of course we'll need to add more LAN cards via PCIe / USB or simply install one with quad ports instead. They're starting from 40 bucks a piece while StarTech made one that's looking the best with 4 separate clocks

 

https://www.amazon.com/Syba-Gigabit-Ethernet-Express-Network/dp/B01HH6WETO

https://www.amazon.com/HP-NC364T-Gigabit-Server-Adptr/dp/B000P0NX3G

https://www.amazon.com/Padarsey-Chipset-I340-T4-E1G44HT-Ethernet/dp/B07Y4N9YZZ

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Express-Gigabit-Network-Adapter/dp/B015FTXD0Y

 

For USB route, it could be powered externally and the price is right

 

https://www.amazon.com/IO-Crest-SY-HUB24047-Gigabit-Network/dp/B01N16C75R

 

Of course there's also 2x2 setup so that we're having 2 in series as well as 2 in parallel.

[bodiebill]

On 6/15/2020 at 11:07 AM, bodiebill said:

 

And I must admit, it does not sound delightful at all. I lost my smooth mellow sound. Given the alleged long burn-in time for the Mundorf wires, I will have to be patient... If it does not improve in more than a week, I may consider removing the JSSG360 shielding.

 

The Mundorf silver/gold DC wires have now been burning in for about a week (much less than the 500 hours that some say they need), but I am pleased to report that I now listen to them with great pleasure. The stridency is gone and the holographic imaging is back. If my memory serves me well they already improve on the previous (Supra CAT8 with JSSG360) DC cables.

Worth it!

🙂

[rickca]

6 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Holy crap! The Buffalo should come with a warning.

Of course you know that inside it there are Buffalo chips.  AKA meadow muffins. 😀

[Superdad]

48 minutes ago, rickca said:

Of course you know that inside it there are Buffalo chips.  AKA meadow muffins. 😀

Darn, I was hoping for gals or wings... 

[seeteeyou]

FYI - here's yet another affordable choice that's worth the mod

 

https://alpha-audio.net/review/review-meraki-ms220-8p-switch-with-music-samples/

Quote

Before we forget to mention it: the Meraki MS220-8P can be bought 2nd hand for around 100 euro. No license is needed to use it. Login is via the serial number on the back of the switch. Of course, you can’t use the complete feature set – that requires the cloud subscription – but the basics just work. And that will be enough in many cases.

 

https://www.alpha-audio.nl/review/review-meraki-ms220-8p-met-samples/

 

http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-15849.html

http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-14901.html

http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-13381-post-372854.html#pid372854

https://meraki.cisco.com/lib/pdf/meraki_datasheet_ms220_compact.pdf

https://documentation.meraki.com/MS/Installation_Guides/MS_End_of_Sale/MS220-8_Series_(EOS)_Installation_Guide

 

 

Used ones are available on fleBay for cheap

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=606626867515

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=620324769840

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-Meraki-MS220-8P/313072002723
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-Meraki-MS220-8P-unclaimed-in-orignial-box/124002917817

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-Meraki-MS220-8-Cloud-Managed-PoE-Switch/153835473282
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Meraki-Switch-MS220-8-HW-tested-and-working-UNCLAIMED/193511642423
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-MerakI-MS220-8P-HW-8-Ports-Desktop-Ethernet-Switch/303601817635
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-MerakI-MS220-8P-HW-8-Ports-Desktop-Ethernet-Switch-AM/293618434340
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-MerakI-MS220-8P-HW-8-Ports-Desktop-Ethernet-Switch-Unclaimed/233627336209
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-Meraki-MS220-8P-Cloud-Managed-Switch-8-Port-Gigabit-PoE-8x-1GbE/153975097843
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-Meraki-MS220-8P-8-Port-Gigabit-PoE-Ethernet-Switch-2-SFP-Desktop-Cloud/303569519519

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unclaimed-Cisco-Meraki-MS220-8P-Cloud-Managed-Switch-8-Port-Gigabit-PoE-8x-1GbE/303110233681

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unclaimed-Cisco-Meraki-MS220-8P-Cloud-Managed-Switch-8-Port-Gigabit-PoE-8x-1GbE/174321390378
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unclaimed-Cisco-Meraki-MS220-8P-Cloud-Managed-Switch-8-Port-Gigabit-PoE-8x-1GbE/223933226670
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unclaimed-Cisco-Meraki-MS220-8P-Cloud-Managed-Switch-8-Port-Gigabit-PoE-8x-1GbE/303158521719
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-Meraki-MS220-8P-8-Port-Cloud-Managed-Gigabit-PoE-Network-Switch-PWR-Tested/233627168405

 

For parts only

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-Meraki-MS220-8P/114099048196
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cisco-Meraki-MS220-8P-HW-8-Ports-Desktop-Ethernet-Switch-Parts-Repair/264747511167
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Parts-and-Repair-Cisco-MerakI-MS220-8P-8-Ports-Desktop-Ethernet-Switch-JT0036/283924621127

[R1200CL]

On 6/9/2020 at 10:31 PM, lwr said:

I placed an order May 8 and haven’t heard anything from them ever since.  I have emailed requests for tracking information but have not gotten any reply whatsoever.  I have made many purchases from them and recommend them to friends, and everything has always gone smoothy before, including special orders for combinations of connectors and cables not shown on their website.

My order was shipped 29 May. Arrived yesterday in Oslo. Did choose slow and cheap option, so to me that’s fast enough 😀

Order placed 27 May. 

[seeteeyou]

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/542/?tab=comments#comment-941760

On 3/25/2019 at 4:50 AM, romaz said:

As such, this gaming board has an 8-layer PCB with a whopping 8oz of copper to maximize conductivity and to enhance the ground plane.

 

On 3/25/2019 at 4:50 AM, romaz said:

As I mentioned above, I believed this particular motherboard should, in theory, sound better than the first board because it had more layers in the PCB, more copper in the ground plane, better heat sinking, and a more robust VRM.

  

On 3/27/2020 at 11:51 PM, Energy said:

The Aorus I mentioned features the newer server grade PCB weaving for less signal loss. The 6 or 8 layers PCB (depending on model) improves crosstalk since these traces no longer have to inter-lap one another so closely.

  

On 12/28/2019 at 6:37 AM, rickca said:

For those looking for the ultimate motherboard, here's a new C622 motherboard from EVGA for $1800 (after $200 rebate).  It has a 24 phase power design on a 16 layer PCB with a pre-installed waterblock for the VRM and chipset.

https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=160-CX-W999-KR

 

I was like reading something on AnandTech and then someone with a pair of Sennheiser HD800 just built this rig for real, could this kinda monster manage to beat Asus WS C621E SAGE by any chance?

 

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/just-built-a-new-rig.2582160

[Exocer]

15 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

FYI - here's yet another affordable choice that's worth the mod

 

Interesting - Planning to test this Meraki along with the Buffalo BS-GS2016P and Etherregen.

 

BTW - here are my preferred settings with the Buffalo after trying the BS-GS2016A defaults. I don't know that I have an itch to upgrade/modify this unit yet. It sounds very good by default.

 

[thm655321]

Not sure if I should pose this question in a separate thread or here but I thought I would start here anyways.

 

All this talk about audiophile switches caused me to rethink my setup.  All of my music files are stored on a QNAP NAS, but I also use the NAS for other files so I need it connected to the main network.  I decided to move my NAS from my office location to my audiophile system location.  The NAS has two ethernet ports, the first one I run to a Netgear switch for internet and to connect to the network.  The second ethernet port I run directly to an ethernet to USB-C adapter that is plugged into my separate USB card on my audiophile fanless PC.  So the audiophile PC has a direct lan connection to the NAS for the music files and through the usb card is not on the same network as my other networked devices (I run my main network on 192.168.1.XXX and the dedicated lan connection is NAS 192.168.0.1 to PC 192.168.0.2), although the main ethernet nic on the motherboard is connected to the Netgear switch so that the audiophile PC can connect to the main network and the internet (mainly to enable the JRiver app on my iPhone).

 

Have I successfully avoided the whole audiophile switch issue by doing the direct lan connection this way?

 

It sounds the best this way but I don't have any switches other than the stock Netgear switch to test it with.

 

Thanks in advance.