UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[esmit]

On 1/25/2020 at 12:28 PM, jos said:

One other option is to place an ISO Regen behind your microRendu

As said by me elsewhere: I find adding the ISO regen after the microRendu indeed a step towards the ultraRendu but to my ears it degrades the ultraRendu just a little if you add it to that. And I could only hear that clearly after adding the etherregen: that was a bigger step than from micro to ultrarendu (I seem to remember) or adding the isoregen. In my system etc. 

 

[Superdad]

18 hours ago, McNulty said:

I love the ER in my system but personally wouldn’t use Emiles findings as promotion. He mostly criticized the ER apart from one specific use case with specific SFPs.

I posted them simply because he ranked us well above a pair of the other expensive switch and enjoyed our modest unit in his mega-system. Even though he used it in an odd way.

 

Quote

Also not sure how you got to $ 6,800 for the M12 Gold. Note the cables come with the switch with no extra charge. List price is EUR 4,165.

I did not realize that the cables came with the M12 Gold. I saw JCAT selling Telegartner cables for 1,100 Euros each.  

So about US$4,600 for M12 with two cables.  A bargain. Though I guess one needs to add a power supply?  Wish someone would show the actual circuitry of that industrial switch. It was not expressly designed as a piece for audio, so I wonder what Telegartner's design goals were for it originally.

 

16 hours ago, Cable Monkey said:

A $650 dollar product is being compared with a $4000 product and is more than capable of holding its own. I only see positives there. 

Me too! (Though technically it's $640 to about $4,600). 

 

15 hours ago, matthias said:

Emile used only the A side because this was better sounding than going B to A with fiber.

Yeah, I am not sure if he went copper 'B' port to fiber 'A' port or if he really only used copper 'A' and fiber 'A'.  Maybe I'll write to him or some in that WBF thread will ask for clarification.

 

14 hours ago, jos said:

I wish I could read an ER review from Hans Beekhuyzen, others too?

Funny that you mention that as Hans is receiving today his EtherREGEN unit for test. While I have dealt directly with Hans in the past (he reviewed our original UltraCap LPS-1 and the ISO REGEN), I have way too busy to coordinate reviews, so Joel from our dealer Meta Wave in Sweden took the lead and arranged for Hans (and one other reviewer) to receive an EtherREGEN.

But sooner that that you will see a formal and comprehensive review on the home page here at A/S. Patience please...

[McNulty]

30 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I posted them simply because he ranked us well above a pair of the other expensive switch and enjoyed our modest unit in his mega-system. Even though he used it in an odd way.

 

I did not realize that the cables came with the M12 Gold. I saw JCAT selling Telegartner cables for 1,100 Euros each.  

So about US$4,600 for M12 with two cables.  A bargain. Though I guess one needs to add a power supply?  Wish someone would show the actual circuitry of that industrial switch. It was not expressly designed as a piece for audio, so I wonder what Telegartner's design goals were for it originally.

The M12 Gold comes with a dedicated low noise power supply. As you may be aware, the design and science of the switch and the connectors originate from industrial networks. 

[Superdad]

27 minutes ago, McNulty said:

The M12 Gold comes with a dedicated low noise power supply.

Yes, as with the EtherREGEN, the M12 Gold comes with an SMPS--which lately people seem to like to upgrade. Per all the photos, theirs is the BridgePower BPM030S12F15. 120mV p-p output noise. Our included SMPS is spec'd at 100mV p-p noise, but really this is not what matters.

 

What matters for SMPS is how their copious amount of AC leakage is handled. Our SMPS has its output -VE/0-volt "ground" shunted to AC mains ground--which both dramatically reduces high-source-impedance leakage of the supply itself and, due to the way we wire the EtherREGEN's 'A'-side ports, shunts away leakage coming in on the Ethernet cables from other equipment (especially upstream gear that is running off SMPS). 

Of course regardless, none of this leakage ever makes it across our power/data/clock moat to the 'B' side.  And throughout the EtherREGEN we use a dozen ultra-ultra-low-noise/ultra-low-output-impedance Linear Tech. LT3045 and LT3042 regulators. Not cheap! 

[afrancois]

I wrote my initial impressions of the ER whilst it wasn't yet where it belonged in the chain. I just had it placed between my EdgeSwitch 10XP and the AQVox that's connected with the sMS-200 Ultra. The 10XP is connected using fiber to the "core" switch.

 

During my second test, I took out the AQVox and I used fiber to connect to the ER directly to my main EdgeSwitch 16 XG fiber "core" switch. As much as I wanted this to be the best solution, it wasn't for me. Although everything was very clear, it sounded a bit harsh.

 

Because I don't want to go down the route of using fiber attenuators, I'm now using an Ethernet cable that goes into the A side of the ER instead. This cable comes from the 10XP which is powered by two LPS 1's.

 

The ER is powered by an LPS 1 (not the LPS1.2), has a ground connection and gets its clock input from my REF10.

 

This setup simply blows me away. The ER finally shows the true potential of my amplifiers for my entire music collection. And while I haven't done test yet, it is quite possible that my local streaming solution now surpasses my CD player. This is high praise!

 

For some reason I always preferred to power the switch with an LPS 1 and not the LPS 1.2. This was already the case with the AQVox.

[Guidof]

I've had the EtherREGEN playing continuously for over 500 hours. My impressions parallel those others have posted in eloquent detail, so I won't repeat them here, but I can say this: For me, there are two domains in which the ER brings significant enhancements: clarity and accuracy of timbres. These contribute in no small measure to the enjoyment of music. On a well recorded album, the effect is simply stunning, but even on run-of-the-mill tracks it makes for a major improvement in the realistic reproduction of a musical event. Of course, there is a downside. The shortcomings of a poor recording become even more apparent.

 

My setup is simple: Comcast Cable Modem, HP Desktop (Windows 10), and Vortexbox Appliance NAS (Squeezelite), all plugged into a TP-Link Archer C7 Router. Then WiFi to a D-Link DAP 1522 WiFi Bridge, to the ER, to a Sonore ultraRENDU, to a Benchmark DAC2 and on to the analogue system. Ethernet cables are all Monoprice CAT 6a, USB cable is Phasure Lush^2. By the way, I found that choice of Ethernet cable is important to best complement the ER's virtues.

 

Kudos to John Swenson and Alex Crespi for another brilliant design made available at a reasonable price!

[Bazza13]

Thanks for your findings Guidof.  They mirror mine except for the addition of a better sense of timing and dynamics that results in my feet taping uncontrollably. 

[afrancois]

14 hours ago, Ponkbutler said:

And how do you find it compares with the stock SMPS? Also, are you earthing the ER with it?

The differences are minute with the LPS 1.2 compared to the stock SMPS. But minute is enough for me to opt for the LPS 1.2. Yes the ER is earthed. I made a special cable for it.

[Marcin_gps]

On 1/30/2020 at 7:32 PM, Superdad said:

I posted them simply because he ranked us well above a pair of the other expensive switch and enjoyed our modest unit in his mega-system. Even though he used it in an odd way.

 

I did not realize that the cables came with the M12 Gold. I saw JCAT selling Telegartner cables for 1,100 Euros each.  

So about US$4,600 for M12 with two cables.  A bargain. Though I guess one needs to add a power supply?  Wish someone would show the actual circuitry of that industrial switch. It was not expressly designed as a piece for audio, so I wonder what Telegartner's design goals were for it originally.

 

Me too! (Though technically it's $640 to about $4,600). 

 

Yeah, I am not sure if he went copper 'B' port to fiber 'A' port or if he really only used copper 'A' and fiber 'A'.  Maybe I'll write to him or some in that WBF thread will ask for clarification.

 

Funny that you mention that as Hans is receiving today his EtherREGEN unit for test. While I have dealt directly with Hans in the past (he reviewed our original UltraCap LPS-1 and the ISO REGEN), I have way too busy to coordinate reviews, so Joel from our dealer Meta Wave in Sweden took the lead and arranged for Hans (and one other reviewer) to receive an EtherREGEN.

But sooner that that you will see a formal and comprehensive review on the home page here at A/S. Patience please...

 

Correction: these are my cables with Telegaertner GOLD connectors. 

 

The M12 SWITCH GOLD comes including 2x Telegaertner cables with M12 X-Coded connector on one side and Telegaertner Gold RJ45 on the other side. These cables cost 700EUR / piece. 

 

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, Marcin_gps said:

Correction: these are my cables with Telegaertner GOLD connectors. 

 

The M12 SWITCH GOLD comes including 2x Telegaertner cables with M12 X-Coded connector on one side and Telegaertner Gold RJ45 on the other side. These cables cost 700EUR / piece.

 

Hi Marcin:

Thank you for clarifying. So it seems that indeed the setup used by Emile was with extra-cost, special round plug Ethernet cables. Were they yours or the ones that come with the M12 Switch Gold?

In any case, congratulations on the very fine report received for that ultimate set up. We are just happy to be ranked next--at a fraction of the price. 

[Marcin_gps]

14 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi Marcin:

Thank you for clarifying. So it seems that indeed the setup used by Emile was with extra-cost, special round plug Ethernet cables. Were they yours or the ones that come with the M12 Switch Gold?

In any case, congratulations on the very fine report received for that ultimate set up. We are just happy to be ranked next--at a fraction of the price. 

Thank you!

No extra cost - Emile used the original Telegaertner cables that come with the switch  

The extra cost is if one needs more than 2 cables. 

 

Regards, 
Marcin

[flkin]

Ok here it goes, something most here wouldn’t like to hear, but it’s my observation in my system. 

 

Over a listening period of 2 months and many different configurations of power supplies, external clocking and Ethernet cables, I’m going to conclude that the EtherRegen isn’t for me. 
 

Yes, the information retrieval is great and so is the imaging and bass control but I’m unable to reduce the harder and treble-centric sound to a level I’m happy with. My initial impression after a week of breaking in was very positive in line with what most here have found - many positive attributes especially improvements to the speed and control of the music but with lengthy listening sessions, I’m experiencing fatigue due to the harder treble.

 

After 2 months, I returned to direct from router to my Pink Faun 2.16x and immediately found relief - like an old comfortable sofa. Bliss and more connection with the music and singers. More emotion and more pulls on my heart strings. For me this matters most, not the analysis of the sound but the emotions imparted. 
 

I’ll keep my EtherRegen as it’s an intriguing device and hope to find a way to incorporate it in the future but in my current setup, it’s not staying in the system. 
 

For reference my signal path is:

 

Orbi satilite -> dCBL-CAT7 -> iso-Cat6-> dCBL-CAT7 -> PF2.16x

 

(the dcblcat7,isocat6,dcblcat7 is a SOtM cable)

 

Added the EtherRegen between the Orbi and the PF. 
 

Tried: A-B, B-A on the EtherRegen, different power supplies for the Orbi and EtherRegen, external OCXO clock and without, different Ethernet cables with different lengths before and after the EtherRegen, metal and plastic Ethernet heads, different cable conduit wrappings with mu-metals, different DC cables, external earthing the EtherRegen or not. 

[Bazza13]

Sorry to hear you couldn't make the ER work for you flkin.  Over many decades I found myself in the same situation.  I then purchased a tube preamp followed by all tube components in the entire system.  Some people find that inserting only a tube preamp brings the bliss back.  I find rolling different tubes fun.  Good luck.

[Johnnydev]

10 hours ago, flkin said:

Ok here it goes, something most here wouldn’t like to hear, but it’s my observation in my system. 

 

Over a listening period of 2 months and many different configurations of power supplies, external clocking and Ethernet cables, I’m going to conclude that the EtherRegen isn’t for me. 
 

Yes, the information retrieval is great and so is the imaging and bass control but I’m unable to reduce the harder and treble-centric sound to a level I’m happy with. My initial impression after a week of breaking in was very positive in line with what most here have found - many positive attributes especially improvements to the speed and control of the music but with lengthy listening sessions, I’m experiencing fatigue due to the harder treble.

 

After 2 months, I returned to direct from router to my Pink Faun 2.16x and immediately found relief - like an old comfortable sofa. Bliss and more connection with the music and singers. More emotion and more pulls on my heart strings. For me this matters most, not the analysis of the sound but the emotions imparted. 
 

I’ll keep my EtherRegen as it’s an intriguing device and hope to find a way to incorporate it in the future but in my current setup, it’s not staying in the system. 
 

For reference my signal path is:

 

Orbi satilite -> dCBL-CAT7 -> iso-Cat6-> dCBL-CAT7 -> PF2.16x

 

(the dcblcat7,isocat6,dcblcat7 is a SOtM cable)

 

Added the EtherRegen between the Orbi and the PF. 
 

Tried: A-B, B-A on the EtherRegen, different power supplies for the Orbi and EtherRegen, external OCXO clock and without, different Ethernet cables with different lengths before and after the EtherRegen, metal and plastic Ethernet heads, different cable conduit wrappings with mu-metals, different DC cables, external earthing the EtherRegen or not. 

 

Have you tried the ER without the SOTM dcbl cat7 and without the SOTM dcbl cat6 lan isolator?

 

I obtained the best result without these cables.

 

What I have kept is the 50 cm black, gray and dark gray cables of 50 cm from the SOTM dcbl cat6 SE version to tune with very good results.

 

I use the SOTM black and dark grey in combination with diy SUPRA cat8 and monoprice cat8 and have sold the SOTM dcbl cat 7 and the SOTM dcbl cat6 lan isolator. I have also sold the audioquest cinnamon, carbon and the Vodka

 

[matthias]

11 hours ago, flkin said:

Ok here it goes, something most here wouldn’t like to hear, but it’s my observation in my system. 

 

Over a listening period of 2 months and many different configurations of power supplies, external clocking and Ethernet cables, I’m going to conclude that the EtherRegen isn’t for me. 
 

Yes, the information retrieval is great and so is the imaging and bass control but I’m unable to reduce the harder and treble-centric sound to a level I’m happy with. My initial impression after a week of breaking in was very positive in line with what most here have found - many positive attributes especially improvements to the speed and control of the music but with lengthy listening sessions, I’m experiencing fatigue due to the harder treble.

 

After 2 months, I returned to direct from router to my Pink Faun 2.16x and immediately found relief - like an old comfortable sofa. Bliss and more connection with the music and singers. More emotion and more pulls on my heart strings. For me this matters most, not the analysis of the sound but the emotions imparted. 
 

I’ll keep my EtherRegen as it’s an intriguing device and hope to find a way to incorporate it in the future but in my current setup, it’s not staying in the system. 
 

For reference my signal path is:

 

Orbi satilite -> dCBL-CAT7 -> iso-Cat6-> dCBL-CAT7 -> PF2.16x

 

(the dcblcat7,isocat6,dcblcat7 is a SOtM cable)

 

Added the EtherRegen between the Orbi and the PF. 
 

Tried: A-B, B-A on the EtherRegen, different power supplies for the Orbi and EtherRegen, external OCXO clock and without, different Ethernet cables with different lengths before and after the EtherRegen, metal and plastic Ethernet heads, different cable conduit wrappings with mu-metals, different DC cables, external earthing the EtherRegen or not. 

 

Thanks for sharing.

It is interesting that Emile from Taiko Audio also disliked the ER when configured A-B or B-A.

He found the ER best sounding when everything was connected to the A-side.

Did you try this configuration?

BTW, send you PM.

Thanks

 

Matt

[flkin]

47 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Thanks for sharing.

It is interesting that Emile from Taiko Audio also disliked the ER when configured A-B or B-A.

He found the ER best sounding when everything was connected to the A-side.

Did you try this configuration?

BTW, send you PM.

Thanks

 

Matt

Didn’t try all A side yet. Will add this to my todo list. I read about that somewhere and should have tried but forgot. 

 

1 hour ago, Johnnydev said:

 

Have you tried the ER without the SOTM dcbl cat7 and without the SOTM dcbl cat6 lan isolator?

 

I obtained the best result without these cables.

 

What I have kept is the 50 cm black, gray and dark gray cables of 50 cm from the SOTM dcbl cat6 SE version to tune with very good results.

 

I use the SOTM black and dark grey in combination with diy SUPRA cat8 and monoprice cat8 and have sold the SOTM dcbl cat 7 and the SOTM dcbl cat6 lan isolator. I have also sold the audioquest cinnamon, carbon and the Vodka

 

Yes I tried without the SoTM cables but I only have Ghent, Blue Jean, Supra and other SoTM ethernet cables at hand. No higher end ones. Didn’t seem to help enough. 

[tapatrick]

12 hours ago, flkin said:

...different configurations of power supplies, ...I’m unable to reduce the harder and treble-centric sound to a level I’m happy with. ....fatigue due to the harder treble.

Thanks for an interesting report @flkin. I find the ER applies a magnifying glass to every aspect of sound quality exposing any flaws in recording quality. I'm curious which power supplies you used with your ER? I have settled on a Ciunas Supercaps 7.5v supply which really helps with a smoother treble. As always system dependent...

[flkin]

On 2/8/2020 at 8:10 AM, tapatrick said:

Thanks for an interesting report @flkin. I find the ER applies a magnifying glass to every aspect of sound quality exposing any flaws in recording quality. I'm curious which power supplies you used with your ER? I have settled on a Ciunas Supercaps 7.5v supply which really helps with a smoother treble. As always system dependent...

I used the sPS-500 through a HPULN 5A cleaner, and a Gophert CPS-1610 II through double HPULN 1.5A. Also a 30W, 9V zerozone. And the including switching unit. 
No configurations managed to tame the treble. Within my specific system.

[Guidof]

6 hours ago, flkin said:

 

I used the sPS-500 through a HPULN 5A cleaner, and a Gophert CPS-1610 II through double HPULN 1.5A. Also a 30W, 9V zerozone. And the including switching unit. 
 

No configurations managed to tame the treble. Within my specific system.

.

My deepest sympathy for your predicament. You certainly went the extra mile in trying to make the ER work for you. But if a direct connection to the router produces the engaging sound you prefer, why not just live with it and concentrate in the music?

 

Alternatively, if the ER is still promising to be doing something you like, you may consider looking into your analogue system for a possible source of the treble problem.

 

Best of luck in your quest.

[LowMidHigh]

8 hours ago, flkin said:

 

I used the sPS-500 through a HPULN 5A cleaner, and a Gophert CPS-1610 II through double HPULN 1.5A. Also a 30W, 9V zerozone. And the including switching unit. 
 

No configurations managed to tame the treble. Within my specific system.

 

I venture to guess it's a matter of acoustic treatment. The ER has accentuted the highs, and thus some HF absorbers are now called for. 

 

If the other frequencies have improved, consider the option. 

 

Cheers from Hua Hin

[One and a half]

@flkin, thank you for the post and diligence in finding the best method to suit your ear. Am trying to find a reason why the treble is not the best. It is known from galvanically seperate devices like the iGalvanic, the treble is a victim of creating false noise as well as removing USB noise from the source.

Consider then, the hard treble is already present in the system, somehwere, let's start from the PF to the DAC. It's not present when the EtherRegen is installed since the effect is masked by the cables and to a certain degree common mode noise (aka leakage currents) from what's already being contributed by the other components. It's great to see star earthing, every bit helps.

When the EtherRegen is added, that path that allows the masking is gone, and you then hear the bad treble. To confirm, you could replace the Habst USB cable with a USB printer cable. If the treble is worse (and most likely all other sounds will be), then you've tracked a noise source.

I am really leaning toward that the EtherRegen is doing it's job and there's a problem in a section of the rest of the system and agree with @Guidof but more in the digital chain. The clue was no matter what PSU you used for the EtherRegen, the hard treble was always present, since the EtherRegen is agnostic to its power supply.

[Ponkbutler]

20 hours ago, flkin said:

 

I used the sPS-500 through a HPULN 5A cleaner, and a Gophert CPS-1610 II through double HPULN 1.5A. Also a 30W, 9V zerozone. And the including switching unit. 
 

No configurations managed to tame the treble. Within my specific system.

 

May I ask where your ER is installed. I found that having it near my Streamer DAC/Pre-Amp and their power supplies in particular (separate on my system) resulted in a more dynamic, less fluid and more brittle treble

[flkin]

On 2/9/2020 at 5:12 AM, Ponkbutler said:

 

May I ask where your ER is installed. I found that having it near my Streamer DAC/Pre-Amp and their power supplies in particular (separate on my system) resulted in a more dynamic, less fluid and more brittle treble

 

On 2/8/2020 at 9:30 PM, One and a half said:

@flkin, thank you for the post and diligence in finding the best method to suit your ear. Am trying to find a reason why the treble is not the best. It is known from galvanically seperate devices like the iGalvanic, the treble is a victim of creating false noise as well as removing USB noise from the source.

Consider then, the hard treble is already present in the system, somehwere, let's start from the PF to the DAC. It's not present when the EtherRegen is installed since the effect is masked by the cables and to a certain degree common mode noise (aka leakage currents) from what's already being contributed by the other components. It's great to see star earthing, every bit helps.

When the EtherRegen is added, that path that allows the masking is gone, and you then hear the bad treble. To confirm, you could replace the Habst USB cable with a USB printer cable. If the treble is worse (and most likely all other sounds will be), then you've tracked a noise source.

I am really leaning toward that the EtherRegen is doing it's job and there's a problem in a section of the rest of the system and agree with @Guidof but more in the digital chain. The clue was no matter what PSU you used for the EtherRegen, the hard treble was always present, since the EtherRegen is agnostic to its power supply.

Tried switching to a generic Ghent USB cable but as expected the soundstage collapses, details are lost, imaging is blur and more. But the stronger treble balance remains. Looks like I still have to continue tracking the source of the treble balance...

 

On 2/9/2020 at 5:12 AM, Ponkbutler said:

 

May I ask where your ER is installed. I found that having it near my Streamer DAC/Pre-Amp and their power supplies in particular (separate on my system) resulted in a more dynamic, less fluid and more brittle treble

Tried a few locations including 6 inches before the streamer or right after the router in the room but the treble balance doesn't seem to change that much, other sonic attributes do though.

 

I suspect it's something else not related to the streamer or upstream components. There are simply too many people with good results with the ER. 

Many here have offered constructive comments - many thanks to all for their thoughts. It's one of great attributes of this AS site!

[PYP]

2 minutes ago, flkin said:

I suspect it's something else not related to the streamer or upstream components. There are simply too many people with good results with the ER. 

 

I have had some issues with the the high frequencies too.  Currently trying an UpTone JS-2 LPS.  Have had it for only three days, so too early to judge its full potential, but it is already clear that an excellent LPS is needed in some systems for natural HF (mine being one).  My DAC, purchased about 1 year ago, doesn't limit the HF energy.  Once the DAC settled in, the HF sounded close to perfect (to my ears), yet something was not quite right.  Adding diffusers was the remedy, therefore I'm also considering additional room treatments now that I have the eR.   

 

 Good luck with your experiment.  

[Ponkbutler]

It might also be worth pointing out that high frequencies were a bit brittle and harsh when my EtherRegens were new but that this significantly improved as it burnt it, becoming more detailed, nuanced and textured. They are not harsh at all. Around 100 hours was the first turning point.