A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[elan120]

11 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

 

I'm still early in the process of really understanding the various filters in HQP, but if you have a Chord DAC and don't have a Hugo mScaler or Blu2 and want a sneak peek at what it would sound like, I suggest the following: PCM only, auto family, sinc-M filter, no dither, 768k sampling limit as a pretty damn good starting point. poly-sinc-long-lp was also quite good (and I prefered it on initial listen), but I preferred sinc-M after extended listening.

 

In general, if you want to mimic the HMS sound, stick with linear phase filters (timing accuracy), disable volume adjustments in HQP (let the DAC handle that), do as much in PCM land as you can (Rob's DACs play nicer with PCM than DSD, also a LOT less CPU load to upsample), target 768k as max sample rate (assuming you have a Chord DAC that can accept that rate on USB...basically everything newer than the TT), and use auto-family to restrict to powers of 2 upsampling.

 

I find HQP excellent, but not quite where HMS is.  It is an open question whether more taps in the filter (any chance for a sinc-2M PCM filter @Miska? I'd be delighted to beta test!), more precision in the filter coefficients (no idea what precision HQP uses...Rob has claimed 16 bit precision in his sinc coefficients), or some magic in the noise shaping (this is the most opaque part of the pipeline for me, with the most secret sauce) is the remaining gap.  

 

For now, I would characterize both of them as excellent, with the edge to HMS.  With updated filters (or better understanding of how to optimize the filters in my chain), things are danger close.  Jussi is to be congratulated for a remarkable product, and an extraordinarily generous full feature free 30 minute trial mode.

 

 

Very nice description of HQP @ray-dude, have you had a chance to test the EC modulators with DSD256?  In my system, I prefer them slightly more, but certainly your suggested PCM only, auto family, sinc-M filter, no dither, 768k sampling is very likable as well.  On a side note, when upsampled to PCM1536, SQ elevate to another notch, however, I don't have the luxury to compare with Chord DAC as you do.

[Miska]

51 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

Hugo mScaler or Blu2 and want a sneak peek at what it would sound like, I suggest the following: PCM only, auto family, sinc-M filter, no dither, 768k sampling limit as a pretty damn good starting point. poly-sinc-long-lp was also quite good (and I prefered it on initial listen), but I preferred sinc-M after extended listening.

 

You should always use dither. Reason is that HQPlayer internal processing pipeline has much more resolution (64-bit floating point) than the 32-bit integer that you can send over USB (or 24-bit integer that you can send over S/PDIF from M-Scaler). If you don't apply dither when the resolution is being limited, you get quantization distortion.

 

51 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

disable volume adjustments in HQP (let the DAC handle that)

 

Do not turn volume control higher than -3 dBFS in HQPlayer to leave headroom for inter-sample overs. Some material may need more than this, but for most cases -3 dBFS is enough. Keep eye on the Limited-counter in HQPlayer main window. It should stay zero at all times. If it doesn't, you have too high volume and you are triggering the soft limiter in HQPlayer output.

 

51 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

It is an open question whether more taps in the filter (any chance for a sinc-2M PCM filter @Miska?

 

Number of taps is pretty meaningless figure. For DSD outputs there's a 16M filter. But it is not practical for PCM rates due to excessive delay. One million taps causes already more than one second delay (at 768k you have 768000 samples in a second, so a million will take longer than one second).

 

51 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

more precision in the filter coefficients (no idea what precision HQP uses...Rob has claimed 16 bit precision in his sinc coefficients)

 

HQPlayer coefficients are 80-bit floating point precision to begin with.

 

[Miska]

P.S. I have a Mojo, but I don't use it. At the moment I use poly-sinc-ext2 filter and ASDM7EC modulator to DSD256 output to Holo Audio DACs (set to NOS) and RME ADI-2 Pro (set to DSD Direct). I also use the EVGA NU Audio card at DSD256 with same settings - very good performer and doesn't cost much!

 

P.P.S. I've been also playing somewhat with Playback Designs Merlot DAC, which is supposed to finally land in the living room system when I get my new equipment rack in use. (the rack took almost six months from order to delivery!)

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Out of curiosity, I tried this too. I agree with all 3 snippets above from Ray's post.

 

Considering the cost difference, this is why I use an R2R DAC with HQPlayer.  I've had a DAVE in my house, but without the mscaler.  The difference is slight, and If budget wasn't an issue it's the Chord but YMMV.  HQPlayer also allows for a significant amount of flexibility with its library of filters among other settings which can further tune a sound.  Non R2R DACs will apply a single filter and WYHIWYG.  In the case of the DAVE it's a very very good thing.

[iCarus]

This is my first post on this forum.

 

I'm currently using a Hakai build of digital streamer from the Lejonklou site (https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4272).  This uses Gigabyte ITX motherboards which sound great, as does the whole Hakai build.  However the motherboards lack PCI Express capabilities - they have an M.2 2230 socket designated for Wi-Fi (there seems to be no adapter to allow the use of PCIe). There are Antipodean websites (e.g. https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/82802-building-the-idealish-music-server/page/200/) that recommend using Jetway NF9C-2800 motherboards.  Does anyone have recent experience of a mini ITX motherboard that sounds great but has PCIe?

 

I want to carry on using Linux software for digital streaming but make use of a PCIe noise filter such as the Elfidelity USB Filter. There are many computer audio forums and I am trying to find the best parts of each in an attempt to further improve my current system and enjoy the music more!

[seeteeyou]

This ASRock EPC621D6I could be such an enticing Mini-ITX option with LGA 3647 and 6 SO-DIMM slots for ECC DDR4 RAM

 

https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=EPC621D6I

https://www.servethehome.com/asrock-rack-epc621d4i-2m-motherboard-review/asrock-rack-epc621d6i-block-diagram/

 

Ideal candidate for 10-core Xeon Silver? Though the VRM part ain't necessarily all that hot due to space constraints.

[iCarus]

29 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

This ASRock EPC621D6I could be such an enticing Mini-ITX option with LGA 3647 and 6 SO-DIMM slots for ECC DDR4 RAM

 

https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=EPC621D6I

https://www.servethehome.com/asrock-rack-epc621d4i-2m-motherboard-review/asrock-rack-epc621d6i-block-diagram/

 

Ideal candidate for 10-core Xeon Silver? Though the VRM part ain't necessarily all that hot due to space constraints.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. My preference for these motherboards is relatively low processing power, integrated processor (Celeron, Atom etc.).

[Middy]

Just received the second regulator to upgrade my DXPWR from Alex. 

Paniced a little as it had a few extra bits with the PCB and thats not good normally when I am doing IKEA wardrobes... He made a little bridging PCB that helps but just copy the dual reg product page image..

Line up where the PCB  will go, remove films and place thermal pad onto the case. Removed the links/jumpers off first PCB and parallel mount them across to the second regulator. Slide the nuts into the slots and line up with the holes and screw down. Need to solder the new led but rushed it late last night.

Note:

Letting Alexey know helps... i messed him around from not asking and making mistakes like not considering V drop as above, i just ordered with out checking first on the first regulator. Now in 7> 6 >5v out. 

Power matters...again...

Qutest is sounding better shaper, with more decay on lows Highs, voices more coherent. More veils lifted than a sultans honeymoon....joking.. but really happy again with Alexey's efforts, boosting my older LPS1.

 

i should have ordered both as one unit for $48 more and no double shipping.. many emails to an already busy guy...

If you have a single Regulator you will probably benefit from upgrading, i did.

Hope this helps someone..

Merry Christmas all

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mourip]

5 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

This ASRock EPC621D6I could be such an enticing Mini-ITX option with LGA 3647 and 6 SO-DIMM slots for ECC DDR4 RAM

 

https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=EPC621D6I

https://www.servethehome.com/asrock-rack-epc621d4i-2m-motherboard-review/asrock-rack-epc621d6i-block-diagram/

 

Ideal candidate for 10-core Xeon Silver? Though the VRM part ain't necessarily all that hot due to space constraints.

 

Looks like a very capable board. It might take a bit of care to find a fanless case for it due to the placement of the two groups of memory slots.

[seeteeyou]

5 hours ago, iCarus said:

Thanks for the suggestion. My preference for these motherboards is relatively low processing power, integrated processor (Celeron, Atom etc.).

 

Quite expensive for its specs, though it's a tried and true motherboard that's also found inside Innuos ZENith SE

 

https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-X10SBA-L-B-Celeron-Mini-ITX-Motherboard/dp/B00F0YJC28

[seeteeyou]

1 hour ago, mourip said:

Looks like a very capable board. It might take a bit of care to find a fanless case for it due to the placement of the two groups of memory slots.

 

They do have a similar version with two M.2 slots replacing a pair of SODIMM slots, though we're losing the advantage of six-channel memory with Xeon Scalable

 

https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=EPC621D4I-2M

https://www.newegg.com/asrock-epc621d4i-2m-intel-xeon-scalable-processors/p/N82E16813140032

 

Quite a bit cheaper in China

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=599171457411

 

Linking two identical fanless systems together could be an interesting setup since the endpoint is having a much lower CPU utilization, no room for unnecessary ports and that could be a plus.

[Johnseye]

 

As many of you know, SOtM has been working on their own motherboard.  I received word that the prototype will be ready just before Axpona in April.  I'm hopeful we'll get to listen to it there.  I don't know anything more than that at this time

[austinpop]

Nice. There's a good chance I will be at AXPONA this year. Can you arrange for no snow this time, John? 2 years in a row is enough for me.

[bobfa]

13 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Nice. There's a good chance I will be at AXPONA this year. Can you arrange for no snow this time, John? 2 years in a row is enough for me.

We can promise you weather.  We can promise you confusion.  We can guarantee that the sun will rise, but not if you can see it!

 

Snow is what is called an Unexpected Highlight to your visit.   I started a thread already....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Middy]

Not in the market but suprised its not been jumped on as many had the earlier model and this can be externally powered by a good power supply....

 

https://twitteringmachines.com/audiophile-tweaks-from-intona-technology-and-sonore/

 

https://pro.intona.eu/en/products/7055-b

 

 

[seeteeyou]

Even SGM Extreme could be further improved by the latest version of Intona

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/intona-usb-2-0-3-0-isolators-2019versions.28439/

https://www.hiendy.com/hififorum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=130406

 

The cables on both ends seemed to matter, though.

[bodiebill]

I installed the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter that arrive today in my low-footprint audio PC. It only uses the first DC-in for 24 pin ATX and 8 pin EPS. (SATA is de-activated in this PC.)

The sound difference is immediate. A much broader spectrum with more dynamics. Alas also more strident (irritants), so I hope that breaking it in for a week or so will make a difference. 

[elan120]

2 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

I installed the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter that arrive today in my low-footprint audio PC. It only uses the first DC-in for 24 pin ATX and 8 pin EPS. (SATA is de-activated in this PC.)

The sound difference is immediate. A much broader spectrum with more dynamics. Alas also more strident (irritants), so I hope that breaking it in for a week or so will make a difference. 

Good to know it is making such a positive impact.  What do you use to feed the DC-ATX converter?

[bodiebill]

16 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Good to know it is making such a positive impact.  What do you use to feed the DC-ATX converter?

 

Currently SBooster BOTW ECO 19V, but I ordered an SR4. (The 800W replaced a HDPlex 250W DC-ATX.)

[elan120]

23 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

Currently SBooster BOTW ECO 19V, but I ordered an SR4. (The 800W replaced a HDPlex 250W DC-ATX.)

Sounds like your system is "relatively" low power as SR4 has a maximum output current at 2A.  I am also considering this same converter, but my newly built server will need a bit more current to run upsampling from HQPlayer, so I am still on the hunt for a suitable LPS.

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, bodiebill said:

I installed the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter that arrive today in my low-footprint audio PC. It only uses the first DC-in for 24 pin ATX and 8 pin EPS. (SATA is de-activated in this PC.)

The sound difference is immediate. A much broader spectrum with more dynamics. Alas also more strident (irritants), so I hope that breaking it in for a week or so will make a difference. 

 

1 hour ago, elan120 said:

Sounds like your system is "relatively" low power as SR4 has a maximum output current at 2A.  I am also considering this same converter, but my newly built server will need a bit more current to run upsampling from HQPlayer, so I am still on the hunt for a suitable LPS.

 

I'm pleasantly surprised the Sbooster, with its 2A capacity was able to supply the inrush current demand of the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter. I know Larry had reduced the inrush on the latest 400W DC-ATX, but was not sure about the 800W unit. Good to know!

 

Yes, breaking it in will definitely help with the stridency.

[dminches]

I just got my 800W DC-ATX and will be powering it with an HDPlex 400W LPS.

 

[bodiebill]

Indeed, here even the SBooster works flawless with the audio PC, although it delivers only 1.85A. But it just has to power the Supermicro mobo with 8GB ECC RAM, a 35W TDP i3 CPU, m.2 optane drive and a fiber network card. No SATA.

I guess the HDPlex only draws what it needs based on this.

The heavy lifting (HQPlayer DSD256 EC7) is done by a server with i7 9700K.

[StreamFidelity]

8 hours ago, austinpop said:

I'm pleasantly surprised the Sbooster, with its 2A capacity was able to supply the inrush current demand of the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter.

 

I think it depends on the board and the CPU. I had a Keces P8 with 19V / 4A on the motherboard rail and had to press the power button twice before the system booted.

 

The system only boots immediately with a second Keces P8 with 19V / 8A. Fantastic!

 

Here is more information.

 

On 12/15/2019 at 6:36 PM, StreamFidelity said:

 

The advantage is the stable power supply with more headroom.

 

The motherboard requires a second EATX 12V 8PIN connection.

 

My HDPLEX 200W LPS has unfortunately gone up in smoke. I still haven't got him back. I have been using Keces for years and is very stable. The Keces P8 has some protective circuits and I can see the current power consumption on display.

 

[Chopin75]

6 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

I think it depends on the board and the CPU. I had a Keces P8 with 19V / 4A on the motherboard rail and had to press the power button twice before the system booted.

 

The system only boots immediately with a second Keces P8 with 19V / 8A. Fantastic!

 

Here is more information.

 

From the diag are u using one PS to drive the MB and another one to drive the CPU, all via the 800W ATX ?