A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[StreamFidelity]

2 hours ago, rickca said:

How did you power this?  Doesn't it require two 6-pin 19V inputs?

 

I also got the HDPLEX 800W DC-ATX. He just fits into my Streacom FC9 Alpha. See on the left in the picture.

 

My goal was a more stable linear power supply, which was now realized with two Keces P8.

 

DC cabling is very important. Everything is done with Neotech UPOCC 7N Copper 18AWG DC (JSSG360) Cable fom ghentaudio.

[austinpop]

7 hours ago, RickyV said:

 

Wow Rajiv very useful post, as always. I have to read it again when I get home.

I was wondering did you consideredthe dCS Bartok instead of the HMS+Dave combo?

 

 

I never got a chance to compare them head to head, but honestly, you can't go wrong with either one. At that level, it comes down to personal preference, so you have to hear them for yourself. In my case, I already had an HMS and a fantastic upstream chain, so the DAVE slotted into my system very well.

[austinpop]

6 hours ago, bodiebill said:

 

Could someone explain what are the options to power the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX adapter?

s it possible to use a conventional (nonlinear) PC power supply to do this? Such as my Seasonic 400W fanless platinum PSU?

 

Rick is spot on. 👇

 

5 hours ago, rickca said:

Conventional ATX power supplies don't have a 19V output required to power the DC-ATX.

 

[austinpop]

6 hours ago, rickca said:

What applications are you comparing?  

 

It's just wording. I meant that powering the tX-USBultra is a "low current application," as the load is typically under 1A.

[austinpop]

5 hours ago, rickca said:

https://hdplex.com/hdplex-800w-dc-atx-with-16v-63vdc-input.html

 

5 hours ago, rickca said:

How did you power this?  Doesn't it require two 6-pin 19V inputs?

 

The second input is only necessary if you want all the additional PCI-E and SATA outputs in the "Group 2" section of the supply (see the picture in the link you posted above). If you only need ATX and EPS, then you only need to power "DC Input 1" with a 16-63V rail.

 

I suspect some of the better SQ comes from the better regulation evident in the Output Voltage Tolerance spec of just 0.1% on the all-important 12V rail:

 

while the 400W DC-ATX has only a 1% tolerance:

 

 

I also suspect that the higher current capacity plays a role.

 

 

[austinpop]

5 hours ago, rickca said:

Does this mean in your system the power quality/capacity provided for the switch and tX-USBultra is more critical than that provided for the server, or can you not draw that conclusion from your A vs B comparison?

 

It certainly seems that way, but I suspect this is highly system dependent. It's a function of all the other power supplies in the chain. 

[austinpop]

3 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

DC cabling is very important. Everything is done with Neotech UPOCC 7N Copper 18AWG DC (JSSG360) Cable fom ghentaudio.

 

Thanks, your system looks very interesting.

 

The point about DC cabling is very valid. I also used Neotech UPOCC 7N Copper 18AWG DC (JSSG360) cabling from Ghent:

1. 24pin-24pin ATX
2. Paul Hynes DC10FSXL Jaeger to male 5.5x2.5 > Ghent female 5.5x2.5 to 8-pin Molex for EPS
3. Paul Hynes DC10FSXL Jaeger to male 5.5x2.5 > Ghent female 5.5x2.5 to 6-pin Molex to power the DC-ATX adapter.

[bodiebill]

Yesterday I replaced the RAM in my AudioLinux server with HQPlayer embedded with 2x 8GB Apacer DDR4 RAM 2666 (non-ECC). I was sceptical at first. Earlier I compared ECC with non-ECC in my audio pc (endpoint with NAA), and I could not hear the difference. However this time the improvement was immediate and not trivial, which I did not expect for the optically isolated server PC.

 

Then, today I noticed that the server only 'sees' 1x 8GB of RAM. It appeared I did not sufficiently tighten the second module. After doing so, 2x 8GB appeared. However, with two modules the sound was a little less open and musical. So now I run it with 1x 8B, thanking myself for my mistake 🙂

 

Anyone noticed such a difference?

[taipan254]

@austinpop Two questions for you:

 

1. Why is the Cavalli amp not also plugged into your PS Audio Regenerator? 
2. Do you find the Dave's headphone amplifier insufficient for your sets of headphones? Or is the Cavalli adding something that the Dave's headphone amplifier can't provide? 

[Johnseye]

9 hours ago, austinpop said:

PSU Update

 

As I posted a few weeks ago, I needed to experiment where in my system the 3 DR rails of my new Paul Hynes SR-7 PSU had the biggest impact. I've now completed a full round of comparisons and settled on locations. To illustrate the experiment, here is a picture of my latest system topology:

 

 

The experiment was to decide where to put 2 of my SR-7 DR rails, with the 3rd 15V/6A DR rail powering my HMS. The choices were the blue and red circles in the picture.

1. Powering my server (red combo)
   • SR-7 19V/10A DR rail > HDPlex DC-ATX adapter > ATX on the mobo
   • SR-7 12V/6A DR rail > EPS (CPU) on mobo
   • JCAT Net card now bus powered
   • Switch and tX-USBultra powered by 12V/3A SR7 SR rails
      
2. Powering the switch and tX (blue combo)
   • HDPlex 400W ATX LPS powering the server
     • ATX output > ATX on mobo
     • separate 12V/7A rail (modded from the stock 19V XLR output) > EPS on mobo
   • SR-4 5V/2A > JCAT Net Card Femto
   • SR-7 12V/6a DR rail > sNH-10G switch
   • SR-7 12V/6a DR rail > tX-USBultra

Result: While this was not a trivial swap, and took some time to switch from the red to the blue combo and back, the end result was that I found the blue combo, i.e. DR rails on the switch and tX-USBultra, to sound better. So for now, I am keeping my HDPlex 400W Linear ATX supply.

 

Corollary: I was able to borrow @limniscate's SR7MR2DRXL for a few days, and constructed an all-SR7DR super combo chain:

• SR-7 19V/10A DR rail > HDPlex DC-ATX adapter > ATX on the mobo
• SR-7 12V/6A DR rail > EPS (CPU) on mobo
• JCAT Net card now bus powered
• SR-7 12V/6a DR rail > sNH-10G switch
• SR-7 12V/6a DR rail > tX-USBultra

This super-combo just smokes both the red and blue combos! I have a hard time even articulating how good this sounds. The HDPlex Linear ATX supply is already very good, but using the SR-7 to power the server just takes it to another level. SQ improves across the board, in dynamics, transparency, bass articulation, tonality and imaging. I finally got to hear what @romaz has been raving about, and it is truly something! I know the current buzz is about the impossibly expensive (for me) SGM Extreme, but I really have to wonder just how much better the Extreme or Innuos Statement can be over my custom server powered by SR-7 DR rails. Maybe in the not too distant future, we'll be able to find out.

 

I'm now on the hunt for another SR-7 MR2DRXL, so I'm waiting to see if a slot on Paul's custom build queue opens up.

 

Finally, here are some miscellaneous findings from these PSU experiments:

1. HDPlex's bigger, badder 800W DC-ATX adapter is a real SQ champ. It sounds significantly better than the 400W DC-ATX adapter. Thanks again to Roy for this tip. While it does take up more space, and really needs a bigger case than the HDPlex H3, it makes up for it in SQ. The other potential concern is inrush current, if you're trying to use it with a lower current rail. In my case, my 19V/10A rail didn't even break a sweat.
2. PSU SQ is related to the current demand and capacity. By this I mean two things:
   • Just because a PSU "works" under a certain load does not mean it will sound its best
   • PSUs that have lower current capacity tend to underperform as the load approaches their capacity.
   • Several cases in point:
     • When powering the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ (a current-hungry application), I found the JS-2 to outperform the SR-4, even though in a lower-current application powering the tX-USBultra, the SR-4 outperformed the JS-2. Yes, the SR-4 "worked" in this application, but its nominal 2A sustained max current made it sound more constricted and polite than the JS-2
     • Similarly, when powering the Chord TT-2 with the Farad Super 3 and the SR4-15, the Farad's superior 3A current rating allowed it to sound better than the SR-4. Again, in a lower-current application powering the tX-USBultra, the SR-4 and Farad were neck and neck.
3. Finding 2 is relevant to explain the results of another experiment I tried. Since I also have a 3-rail SR-7 SR, with 15v/5a, 15v/3a, and 15v/2a rails, I wondered if I could use an SR 12v/4a rail (derated current due to voltage reduction) to power my server's CPU via the EPS port. As it turned out, this did not outperform the EPS powered from the 12V/7A rail from the HDPlex. While the SR7 SR rail had some advantages in the form of tonality, refinement, and transparency, it lacked the dynamics of the HDPlex by quite a margin, which tilted the balance in the HDPlex's favor.
4. When powering a music server, muscular current capacity matters in the PSU.

 

Great info, thanks Rajiv. 

 

This is how I've been running my system and fully agree with your findings. 

 

While the SR7 is the grail, would you consider a Farad in its place until you get a second or is it not worth it? Or do you need more amperage? 

 

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, taipan254 said:

@austinpop Two questions for you:

 

1. Why is the Cavalli amp not also plugged into your PS Audio Regenerator? 

 

Trial and error. If you search back on this thread to my report on putting in a dedicated circuit, I found the amp sounded more dynamic and less constricted connected directly to the wall than going through the P5.

 

2 hours ago, taipan254 said:

1. Do you find the Dave's headphone amplifier insufficient for your sets of headphones? Or is the Cavalli adding something that the Dave's headphone amplifier can't provide? 

 

Well, the Cavalli is no slouch. It is a better amp overall than the DAVE. Also, while the DAVE can easily drive my Empyrean and HD800, it isn't really powerful enough for the Abyss Phi CC.

 

With that said, what the DAVE provides when using its headphone amp directly is transparency. For day to day use, with the Empyrean or the HD800, I use the DAVE direct.

[drjimwillie]

In the write up by Romaz, he says the SMG Extreme uses a ASUS server motherboard. Can anyone report on exactly which motherboard?

[dminches]

3 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

The point about DC cabling is very valid. I also used Neotech UPOCC 7N Copper 18AWG DC (JSSG360) cabling from Ghent:

 

Is JSSG360 Ghent Audio's model or is that a particular general DC cable?

 

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Great info, thanks Rajiv. 

 

This is how I've been running my system and fully agree with your findings. 

 

While the SR7 is the grail, would you consider a Farad in its place until you get a second or is it not worth it? Or do you need more amperage? 

 

 

Hi John,

 

I have been giving this question a lot of thought. Clearly, massive current reserves seem to be a benefit when driving the CPU (via EPS), and I believe the same to be true for ATX. It really does seem that a music server's current demand is peaky, so a high current supply with tons of headroom has a distinct advantage. This is evidenced by my results with a SR7 SR 12v/4a rail being trumped by a beefier HDPlex 12v/7a rail.

 

You're right, 2x SR7 DR rails of 19V/10A and 12V/10A would be hard to beat, but are there some interesting options in the "obtainium" universe?

 

One that @romaz and I have discussed would be a strong candidate for a music server would be the standard SR-7 now being offered by Paul Hynes Design (PHD). One of the standard configurations is an SR7MR2 with 19V/10A and 12V/12A rails. That seems to be tailor made for this high quality AND high-current application.

 

The second option would be the upcoming Farad Super 12 supply with their own DC-ATX adapter. I'm not sure yet if Mattijs is ready to share anything publicly, but I know this is in the works.

[austinpop]

2 minutes ago, dminches said:

 

Is JSSG360 Ghent Audio's model or is that a particular general DC cable?

 

 

I had Ghent custom quote me for these cables, as they are rather specialized. However, it's possible he subsequently put it up on his website, as I haven't checked there.

[austinpop]

3 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I had Ghent custom quote me for these cables, as they are rather specialized. However, it's possible he subsequently put it up on his website, as I haven't checked there.

 

Well what do you know - he has it on his website:

1. ATX to ATX: http://www.ghentaudio.com/pc/nt01.html
2. Molex cables - this one, but with my specified connectors: http://www.ghentaudio.com/pc/nt02.html

[Dutch]

18 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

In the write up by Romaz, he says the SMG Extreme uses a ASUS server motherboard. Can anyone report on exactly which motherboard?

it was mentioned on the previous page in this topic and it is correct:
 

 

[RickyV]

My two cents is,

We are trying to mimic smps with Linear power supplies so delivery of high current in an instant but with as low as noise as possible.

 

[Dutch]

10 hours ago, rickca said:

Conventional ATX power supplies don't have a 19V output required to power the DC-ATX.

Actually, it needs 16V DC or higher. (I’m nitpicking here of course since ATX PSU’s don’t supply anything over 12V 😉)

 

13 hours ago, austinpop said:

JCAT Net card now bus powered

I think you used bus power because of the SR7 powering the entire server but did you check the results in that config but still powering the JCAT Net with the SR4? I wouldn’t dare to predict what would be better to be honest.

[austinpop]

21 minutes ago, Dutch said:

I think you used bus power because of the SR7 powering the entire server but did you check the results in that config but still powering the JCAT Net with the SR4? I wouldn’t dare to predict what would be better to be honest.

Correct. It sounds better bus powered via the SR-7 than externally via an SR-4.

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

The second option would be the upcoming Farad Super 12 supply with their own DC-ATX adapter. I'm not sure yet if Mattijs is ready to share anything publicly, but I know this is in the works.

 

Yes, this is what I'm waiting for.  Depending on how it gets reviewed.

 

Not sure if you're doing anymore DAC shootouts, but the new Holo May is about to be released.  I don't think you tried any R2R DACs but this one is supposed to be a next gen.

[austinpop]

58 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Not sure if you're doing anymore DAC shootouts, but the new Holo May is about to be released.  I don't think you tried any R2R DACs but this one is supposed to be a next gen.

 

No, I've hung up my DAC reviewing boots for a while. BTW - the Denafrips Terminator DAC I reviewed is R2R.

[Johnseye]

24 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

No, I've hung up my DAC reviewing boots for a while. BTW - the Denafrips Terminator DAC I reviewed is R2R.

 

You should have tried it with HQPlayer 😜

[soares]

3 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Yes, this is what I'm waiting for.  Depending on how it gets reviewed.

 

Not sure if you're doing anymore DAC shootouts, but the new Holo May is about to be released.  I don't think you tried any R2R DACs but this one is supposed to be a next gen.

Any idea on the price and when it will be available? Thanks

[elan120]

7 minutes ago, soares said:

Any idea on the price and when it will be available? Thanks

Check this post for more details.