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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

The Computer Audiophile

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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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6 hours ago, Confused said:

Moving out of the subjective domain, with the old HP "all in one", I always found Roon to be a little clunky in operation, just a little slow and cumbersome.  With the i9 9900k, Roon is super slick, so that's at least something!

Roon talks a lot in their documentation about using Solid State Drives.  While Processor is less important for some things the SSD is rather critical for them.

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50 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

https://www.soselectronic.com/articles/apacer/the-most-reliable-memory-for-industries-2177

 

75.B93ET.G000C
https://ipc2u.com/catalog/75_b93et_g000c

 

75.B93ET.G010C
https://ipc2u.com/catalog/75_b93et_g010c

 

Not that many choices for ASRock H87M-ITX are available to begin with, just send them an e-mail and find out what the lead time is.

 

Thanks a lot. I sent off for a quote. At some point I might just have to replace the board and start fresh with DDR4!

 

You are definitely the king of the Internet search 🙂



"Don't Believe Everything You Think"

System

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15 hours ago, bobfa said:

Roon talks a lot in their documentation about using Solid State Drives.  While Processor is less important for some things the SSD is rather critical for them.

Yes, a good point, this could well be a key factor.  In my case the new i9 has a 512GB SSD drive, the poor old i5 did not have an SSD at all.


Windows 10 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, SOtM sMS-200Ultra, tX-USBultra, Paul Hynes SR4 (x2), Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection.

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3 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

FYI - here's something new for 100 bucks that could work with either DXP-1A5S or DXP-1A5DSC

 

https://fccid.io/RR-iFi-iPower-X-001

https://fccid.io/RR-iFi-iPower-X-002

https://www.price.com.hk/product.php?p=438876

https://www.facebook.com/sk.storehk/posts/2537748199816889

https://www.hkepc.com/forum/viewthread.php?fid=124&tid=2539565

AwtGVgI.jpg

 

upK2EKv.jpg

 

For instance, get the 15V iPower X and DXP-1A5DSC for something that needs a double-regulated 12V / 1.5A rail so that we'll have 15V → 13.5V → 12V

 

12V iPower X → 10.5V → 9V

 

9V iPower X → 7V → 5V

 

It's somewhere between the price tag of POWERADD PP2 & PP5 (i.e. $89.99 & $105.99 respectively)

 

https://www.amazon.com/POWERADD-Pilot-23000mAh-External-Smartphones/dp/B015OAJFOC

https://www.amazon.com/POWERADD-Delivery-30000mAh-Smartphones-Chromebook/dp/B07WVTKTYD

 

According to @str-1 both PP2 & PP5 should sound the same

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hugo-m-scaler-by-chord-electronics-the-official-thread.885042/page-657#post-15387361

 

Just another option for those of us who might find it somewhat difficult to get PP2 & PP5 because of issues related to shipping batteries etc.

I can't seem to find any info on how the ifi ipower x differs from the original ipower... Doesn't seem to be listed on their website yet.

 

Do you have any more info other than the price?

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I didn't link to iPower X since it's still password-protected at the moment

 

https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipower-2/

 

Previous gen could only deliver up to 18W while the latest ones could reach as high as 24W depending on the voltage. And then previous ones would have some kinda claims like "Up to 10x quieter than the original iFi Ultra-Low Noise AC/DC Adapter" printed on the side of the box while it should be changed to 20x this time. Though not exactly sure if that were just theoretical number or something

 

qn9ipuJl.jpg

 

And then I didn't mention this clip below since it's only available in Cantonese without English subtitles, the part about iPower X should begin around the 11:30 mark

 

https://www.facebook.com/CASWorkshopHK/videos/911580552594520

 

Basically they're asking for $100 while we'll get fewer accessories in return, different removable plugs for multiple countries used to be part of the package deal while there's only one plug now. And then most likely we won't be able to reuse those plugs from previous generation. The adapters for DC connectors are still included, though.

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15 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

I didn't link to iPower X since it's still password-protected at the moment

 

https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipower-2/

 

Previous gen could only deliver up to 18W while the latest ones could reach as high as 24W depending on the voltage. And then previous ones would have some kinda claims like "Up to 10x quieter than the original iFi Ultra-Low Noise AC/DC Adapter" printed on the side of the box while it should be changed to 20x this time. Though not exactly sure if that were just theoretical number or something

 

qn9ipuJl.jpg

 

And then I didn't mention this clip below since it's only available in Cantonese without English subtitles, the part about iPower X should begin around the 11:30 mark

 

https://www.facebook.com/CASWorkshopHK/videos/911580552594520

 

Basically they're asking for $100 while we'll get fewer accessories in return, different removable plugs for multiple countries used to be part of the package deal while there's only one plug now. And then most likely we won't be able to reuse those plugs from previous generation. The adapters for DC connectors are still included, though.

Awesome info 👍 thanks 😁

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How much power is recommended to power the CPU separately?

And other system recommendations, please?

 

I have a C.A.P.S. Pipeline server/endpoint, AudioLinux loaded into RAM, only running HQPe.  No harddrive.  I have Roon running on my NAS.  The Pipeline is powered by a HDPlex 300W ATX LPS.  I was one of the first to power every component of my computer with a LPS.  (Ancient history alert: at that time I was waiting for the microRendu to be released and because of my impatience, my available funds went to the LPS upgrade.)  I was using the power taps on the HDPlex to power my SOtM USB card and IsoRegen, the 19V tap was powering the NAS.  Now I am only using the molex connectors out of the HDPlex to the motherboard, w/o the molex for the removed harddrive.  Every time I removed a load from the HDPlex, the System sounded better and the PSU ran cooler.  When I heard the good reviews of the HDP 400W ATX LPS I asked Larry if I could have my PSU upgraded because I wanted cleaner power.  He said that the 300W is basically the same as the 400W.  Now I hear good things about the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX.  What if I use the 19V tap for the 800W DC-ATX.   I asked Larry if I used only the 19V tap, would I get the full 300W.  He said that I would only get 190W max, & suggested I keep using the system as I am currently.  Once again I am back where I started.

I have a 50W Zero-zone PSU that I am not using, so I thought it would be good to order an MPAudio HPULN for it, to clean up the power.  I have not used the HPULN and do not have immediate use for it.  (I now have an UpTone LPS 1.2 for every component that can be externally powered.  My system is SOtM USB card > IsoRegen > Singxer SU-1 I2S.  I thought with an LPS 1.2 on the IR & the SU-1 and USB card powered by the HDPlex LPS, that a third LPS 1.2 would not make a difference.  I was wrong.  Powering the TxUSBexp with a third LPS 1.2 was immediately much better)  I thought that the HPULN had not shipped yet and a different way to solve the issue of getting better power into the Pipeline would be to have a separate PSU built for the CPU.  I could use the almost $200 for the HPULN towards a PSU from MPAudio for the CPU. 

With Austinpop’s reports on the importance of a muscular PSU for the CPU, the question is what is the required amperage?  What is the wattage of the CPU that Austinpop successfully powered 12v/7A? (I think)  The Pipeline has a Xeon CPU that is 80W.  80W divided by 12V = 6.6A.  But, this is the rated power and we have learned that heavily loaded the CPU will use more than its rated value.  Is 10A enough? 

MPAudio says the 10A is 20 regulators, 22 for some extra headroom.  Estimate 500 euro.  How would this PSU design compare to the other popular PSUs? 

Would it be worth the extra $30 to ship the now in-transit HPULN back to use the credit?

Now is where it gets crazy and I beg for a reality check. (sorry for the long post)

I want to make sure that a dedicated PSU for a CPU will stay viable over the long term.  I am only running a one-box system because I am waiting for the dust to settle and an endpoint that will emerge that checks all of my boxes.  I missed on the microRendu and things kept getting better with the off the shelf NUC.  I fear that the day I order a NUC or iBox-V1000, the SOtM motherboard will come out or something from one of our other heros.  Also, I am not in a hurry because my system with the EtherRegen already sounds magical!  So, I do not mind waiting.  But, while I wait I might as well make my existing system sound as good as I can.  Upgrading the PSU for the CPU will do that, as long as I can reuse it later. 

I use HQPlayer which has the new EC modulators would need a 5.0 GHz CPU to run DSD512, which currently does not exist.  My Pipeline can run the EC modulator at DSD128, but the CPU is working so hard that it sounds like crap.  I run PCM at PCM384 and it sounds great.  The next Xeon CPU that Miska is looking at does 4.7 GHz turbo and is 155W.  To future-proof for a dedicated CPU PSU with that load would be crazy.  I could possibly move the new CPU PSU over to the future endpoint, but it will probably take 19V and what are the odds that it will have a separate input to power the CPU.  Also, the endpoint PSU should be the “best you can get”, which probably means double regulated and I am not going to build a double regulated CPU PSU for the server.

I have the EtherRegen but have never sent ethernet to an endpoint, how important will the PSU for the CPU be then?

This is why I am reaching out to my friends here for advice, please.  What would you do.  What should I do.

Thank you

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55 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

I use HQPlayer which has the new EC modulators would need a 5.0 GHz CPU to run DSD512, which currently does not exist.  My Pipeline can run the EC modulator at DSD128, but the CPU is working so hard that it sounds like crap. 

 

I also use the HQPlayer and listen enthusiastically with the EC modulator ASDM7EC with DSD 256. For this I use a CPU Intel Core i9-9900K (95W TDP), 3.6GHz - 5.0GHz OctaCore with 16 threads and 4.1GHz. 8.0GHz would be required for DSD516!

 

I have a lot behind me regarding the power supply. My HDPLEX 200W Linear Power Supply went up in smoke. Since I have significantly improved my power supply (Power 19V/16A - see picture), the sound has increased again. My consumption is a maximum of 19V / 5A.

 

spacer.png

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How come you split the powering of the CPU between group 1 and 2?

 


Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS with Durand Telos composite arm; SME 3012R arm, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Reel to Reel:  Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810, Studer A812, Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC (WS 2016/AO/HQPlayer/Roon)> Lampizator Big 7 DAC

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15 minutes ago, dminches said:

How come you split the powering of the CPU between group 1 and 2?

 

The main power is required for CPU.

 

2 x EATX12V from two Keces means double and more stable power.

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1 minute ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

The main power is required for CPU.

 

2 x EATX12V from two Keces means double and more stable power.

 

Are you saying that you can’t power the CPU from either group 1 or group 2 alone?  

 

I think I am confused.


Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS with Durand Telos composite arm; SME 3012R arm, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Reel to Reel:  Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810, Studer A812, Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC (WS 2016/AO/HQPlayer/Roon)> Lampizator Big 7 DAC

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1 hour ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

The main power is required for CPU.

 

2 x EATX12V from two Keces means double and more stable power.

 

I wish someone can compare your configuration vs. one P8 connected to group 1 on the HDPlex and the other P8 connected directly to the EPS. But you would need the second P8 to be 12V. 

We benefit from more available power, but we also benefit from separating rails. And especially the CPU / EPS has a big advantage to be separated. You have increased the available power to the CPU but I believe the two EPS connectors are paralleled on the motherboard, which means that noise from the CPU goes to the ATX and noise from the ATX goes to the CPU.

 

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14 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

I wish someone can compare your configuration vs. one P8 connected to group 1 on the HDPlex and the other P8 connected directly to the EPS. But you would need the second P8 to be 12V. 

We benefit from more available power, but we also benefit from separating rails. And especially the CPU / EPS has a big advantage to be separated. You have increased the available power to the CPU but I believe the two EPS connectors are paralleled on the motherboard, which means that noise from the CPU goes to the ATX and noise from the ATX goes to the CPU.

 

 

I thought this could be accomplished by running the ATX off group 1 and the CPU off group 2.

 


Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS with Durand Telos composite arm; SME 3012R arm, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Reel to Reel:  Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810, Studer A812, Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC (WS 2016/AO/HQPlayer/Roon)> Lampizator Big 7 DAC

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4 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

I also use the HQPlayer and listen enthusiastically with the EC modulator ASDM7EC with DSD 256. For this I use a CPU Intel Core i9-9900K (95W TDP), 3.6GHz - 5.0GHz OctaCore with 16 threads and 4.1GHz. 8.0GHz would be required for DSD516!

 

I have a lot behind me regarding the power supply. My HDPLEX 200W Linear Power Supply went up in smoke. Since I have significantly improved my power supply (Power 19V/16A - see picture), the sound has increased again. My consumption is a maximum of 19V / 5A.

 

spacer.png

How do you know that your max consumption is 19V /5A?  Did you measure in line with both of the 8 pin CPU EPS at the same time, please?

or is that for the entire computer?

thank you

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37 minutes ago, drjimwillie said:

How do you know that your max consumption is 19V /5A?  Did you measure in line with both of the 8 pin CPU EPS at the same time, please?

or is that for the entire computer?

thank you

Sorry, I am just as confused here. You have 2x 19V/8A PS, each supplying part of the CPU, but then you stated it is actually using 12V x2, 12V from each PS ?? Then what happens to the 19V? Is it that the 19V is shared for both the MB and CPU (12V to CPU and 7 V to MB?), so you have 12V x 2 to CPU and 7Vx 2 to MB, if that is even possible??  The simplest is of course 19V to MB and 12V to CPU, as suggested above. Thanks for clarifying!

 

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1 hour ago, Chopin75 said:

Sorry, I am just as confused here. You have 2x 19V/8A PS, each supplying part of the CPU, but then you stated it is actually using 12V x2, 12V from each PS ?? Then what happens to the 19V? Is it that the 19V is shared for both the MB and CPU (12V to CPU and 7 V to MB?), so you have 12V x 2 to CPU and 7Vx 2 to MB, if that is even possible??  The simplest is of course 19V to MB and 12V to CPU, as suggested above. Thanks for clarifying!

 

 

He has:

Keces P8 (19V) --> HDPlex 800 Group 1 --> EPS (12V) and ATX (3.3V, 5V, 12V)

Keces P8 (19V) --> HDPlex 800 Group 2 --> EPS (12V)

 

The HDPlex is converting the 19V to 12V /for the EPS connector(s)/.  Look at the diagram he sent, it makes perfect sense (to me). 

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3 hours ago, Nenon said:

Absolutely.

I am just assuming that P8 (12V) --> EPS might be a cleaner DC than P8 --> Hdplex DC-to-DC --> EPS.

 

+1

Its worth the experiment to see which one sounds better but I think you would need a new P8 with 12v output. The Keces aren't switchable from 19v to 12v and vice-versa. I would get a dual 12v/4A output for the 8-pin EPS.

 

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Romaz has mentioned in his last post that powering the CPU/EPS through HDPlex 800W DC-ATX sounds better than directly powering by a 12V rail.

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I apologize for the confusion. @Nenon, thanks for the explanations.

 

Sequentially. 😉

 

1. Of course, the CPU with group 1 can only be operated with one Keces. Then the load on a Keces is a maximum of 19V / 5A.

 

2. If the second Keces comes into play, the performance is distributed to both approx. 50%.

 

3. I can read the power consumption on the display of the two Keces P8.

 

4. Connecting the second Keces directly to the 12V rails is not possible due to the specification with 19-20V/8A.

 

5. I also see no need, since the measurements of the HDPLEX 800W DC-ATX are superb, as Romaz also wrote.

 

6. I have been operating the two Keces P8 with 20V since yesterday. The HDPLEX 800W DC-ATX accepts a range 16V-63V DC input. Result: subjectively more calm and more energy in bass.

 

37663022nh.jpeg

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7 hours ago, shahed99 said:

Romaz has mentioned in his last post that powering the CPU/EPS through HDPlex 800W DC-ATX sounds better than directly powering by a 12V rail.

My understanding is that Romaz has said powering CPU/EPS through the 800W HDPlex converter is better than powering it directly from the 12V of his 400W HDPlex, because the spec of the 800W is better (.1V variation).
Not from any other separate 12V supply.  A separate 12V supply should sound as good or better as long as the specifications are the same. 

 

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@StreamFidelity your system must sound really good with the two Keces and the 800W HDPlex powering them.  
your system drawing is very clear and well done.

I can see from the picture that you have both PSU set to 20V and combined they are using about 4A, so the total power consumption of your server is 80W.  (I forget, is this build the server or the endpoint or both?) But, we do not know what the CPU by itself is using. 
It is interesting that your CPU is 95W and the entire system is only using 80 W. Were you playing music when you took this picture?

So, this is a good reference point.

It is also why I asked Austinpop what the power rating of his CPU is?
 

Can anyone of us, who is powering the CPU separately, see what the actual consumption is? Or, is that not as important as knowing that you need a lot of power to keep up with the instantaneous demand of the CPU.

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