A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Metnoc]

I can't keep up with all the latest developments in this topic.
What's the current ideas regarding the importance of the hardware of roon core server in comparison to the roon endpoint?
Would a hifi switch such as Uptone separating the roon core and endpoint machines negate most of the roon core impact on the sound quality?
Thanks.

[StreamFidelity]

 Thank you @drjimwillie

 

I am satisfied. Yes, I played music with an even very sophisticated DSD modulator from HQPlayer. The ASUS AI Suite shows 100.0 x 41 (40.8 watts). This could be the CPU load.

 

[StreamFidelity]

3 hours ago, drjimwillie said:

It is interesting that your CPU is 95W and the entire system is only using 80 W.

 

My system is undervolted (BIOS max. 1.050V adaptive).

[bodiebill]

I find it hard to tell the actual power usage from the TDP.

Currently I am using an SBooster ECO MkII 19V / 1.75A (!) to power an endpoint PC with a HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter, Supermicro board, Apacer 8GB ECC RAM, an i3-6100T CPU which is rated at 35W TDP and an Intel PCIe fiber network card. It has worked flawless for months.The PC runs AudioLinux with NAA from an optane M.2 and is otherwise diskless (SATA deactivated).

I have ordered a Paul Hynes SR2 (19V / 2A) to find out if it makes sense to use that instead of the SBooster.

[NanoSword]

I am wondering if someone  can be use  two or three PSU 19v with two Hdplex 800 or 400 converter one to power cpu using group 1&2  and other converter just for motherboard .🤫

[elan120]

6 minutes ago, NanoSword said:

I am wondering if someone  can be use  two PSU 19v with two Hdplex 800 or 400 converter one to power cpu using group 1&2  and other converter just for motherboard .🤫

No, this will not work, as HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter require group-1 and group-2 input power connected in order to have EPS power output from both groups.  One could connect both inputs and have just group-2 EPS output connected to CPU, but whether this will provide better SQ is yet to be determined.

[Middy]

I tried a tip from @Anwar on his NUC stylus thread. I tried my old IFI I silencer on my NUC with the SSD and before the out going cable. Couldn't tell if it helped.

Anwar tried a second on an used port and reported a gain. I just bought a second and its like the first is broken. The detail just snapped into focus, i was expecting nothing but a £50 draw filler.

 

A really nice boost on the NUC!, i dont know if this is mitigating the DC to DC converters you guys are trying bypass with ATX boards and clean rails.? 

If anyone has any old ones try them and please report back, i think its a win, definitely on a NUC.

 

Good luck

Dave

 

 

 

[auricgoldfinger]

On 1/4/2020 at 8:05 PM, elan120 said:

I also have very positive experience with 16AWG solid silver in JSSG360^3 configuration for several of the power supplies to various devices.  After reading all these DC cables, I am inspired to make some new cables for my server using Neotech 18AWG 7N wires in JSSG360 configuration instead of silver.  Once I have the 24ATX cable made, I will swap both out and see how much difference they make.

 

Here is a picture of the finished 8pin EPS cable I completed this afternoon:

 

How do you like your silver ATX and EPS cables?

[elan120]

3 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

How do you like your silver ATX and EPS cables?

I am using copper this time, but working on the silver version next.  The DC-ATX just arrived, so I will have them installed this week to see how they sound, once I have the silver wires here, I will be putting a set together to have a comparison.

[soares]

On 12/8/2019 at 11:58 AM, seeteeyou said:

My pleasure, most likely the same Apacer RAM should also work for ZENith Mk.II (SE) with Celeron J3455 as well as Statement with Celeron N4200. Pretty much all of us should have tried DDR4 ones before and that's why it would be great to find out if older DDR3 ones were just as good or otherwise.

 

Please don't forget to let us know how it's working out because other owners of Innuos music servers will most likely join the party, they won't be left out even though DDR4 SODIMM ain't supported by their motherboards.

Following some scam advertisement from PriceBlaze (despite saying that APACER memory is available, they send you another brand - please see  https://www.priceblaze.com/75-c93e2-g040b-Apacer-Memory-Laptop-Memory), I finally managed to order from Slovakia the right one (I HOPE). It will arrive next week and I will be posting any SQ improvements from my Zen MKIII & Apacer. Cheers Jorge 

 

[dminches]

I have been ordering Apacer memory directly from the Apacer.  This way I know I am getting the right memory.

 

[RickyV]

31 minutes ago, dminches said:

I have been ordering Apacer memory directly from the Apacer.  This way I know I am getting the right memory.

 

I may need some extra ram for my NUC to get Euphony ramroot working, do you have a link for this direct ordering from Apacer? Thanks

[bodiebill]

Inspired by the last few pages of this thread I experimented a bit with powering my AL+NAA endpoint audio PC which has an HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter.

 

setup A  😊

SBooster BOTW ECO MkII 19v/1.75A => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX group 1 => ATX + EPS

 

setup B  😐

HDPlex 200W 19V/10A => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX group 1 => ATX + EPS

 

setup C  😀

SBooster BOTW ECO MkII 19v/1.75A => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX group 1 => ATX

HDPlex 200W 19V/10A => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX group 2 => EPS

 

SQ is C > A > B.

 

C sounds more loose and open.

Not sure if it is the LPSU make the difference or their DC cables. (The cable for the HDPlex seems flimsy.)

 

I may try other combinations (swap LPSU's, trying another one, such as the SR4 which will hopefully arrive by the end of the month, or using a 12V LPSU directly into the EPS/CPU).

 

Setup C seemed slightly better (it made me turn up the volume) than the same with LPSU's swapped, but the difference is either small or imaginary.

 

When should we expect the SQ to benefit most? Using the best LPSU for the motherboard or for the (35W TDP) CPU?

[rickca]

11 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

SQ is C > A > B.

If you can buy or make an appropriate cable, try your HDPLEX 200W 12V rail for EPS (not going though the DC-ATX).  I haven't done this myself, but I'd expect the sound quality would be even better than HDPLEX 200W 19V ==> HDPLEX 800W DC-ATX ==> EPS.

[elan120]

20 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

setup C  😀

SBooster BOTW ECO MkII 19v/1.75A => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX group 1 => ATX

HDPlex 200W 19V/10A => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX group 2 => EPS

I have not get the chance to try it myself, but working on it.  I speculate better SQ will be from better/cleaner power to EPS(CPU).  The combination below should reveal either SBooster is better than HDPlex 200W 19V/10A or the other way around, and hopefully, not the same.

 

SBooster BOTW ECO MkII 19v/1.75A => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX group 2 => EPS

HDPlex 200W 19V/10A => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX group 1 => ATX

[bodiebill]

8 minutes ago, elan120 said:

I have not get the chance to try it myself, but working on it.  I speculate better SQ will be from better/cleaner power to EPS(CPU).  The combination below should reveal either SBooster is better than HDPlex 200W 19V/10A or the other way around, and hopefully, not the same.

 

SBooster BOTW ECO MkII 19v/1.75A => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX group 2 => EPS

HDPlex 200W 19V/10A => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX group 1 => ATX

 

Already tried that, and not much difference, maybe slightly less good SQ, not sure. But if true, it would indicate that the motherboard benefits more from the best LPSU than the CPU? Which would somewhat surprise me.

[bodiebill]

26 minutes ago, rickca said:

If you can buy or make an appropriate cable, try your HDPLEX 200W 12V rail for EPS (not going though the DC-ATX).  I haven't done this myself, but I'd expect the sound quality would be even better than HDPLEX 200W 19V => HDPLEX 800W DC-ATX ==> EPS.

 

Thanks, I do have such a cable and will try.

 

In that case it may even be preferable to use the HDPlex's upper variable LT3045 2A output, which should be cleaner. Or I could go a step further:

HDPlex 15V => MPAudio DLS-HPULN 12V => EPS

to make it even cleaner.

[elan120]

7 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

Already tried that, and not much difference, maybe slightly less good SQ, not sure.

Good to know.  I am working on similar experiment, but different power supplies.

[bodiebill]

58 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

Thanks, I do have such a cable and will try.

 

In that case it may even be preferable to use the HDPlex's upper variable LT3045 2A output, which should be cleaner.

 

Now setup as above, powering the CPU directly from HDPlex's upper variable LT3045 12V/2A output, and the dynamics are improved. However a tad strident so I will fabricate a better DC cable to see whether that will improve things further... 

[dminches]

4 hours ago, RickyV said:

I may need some extra ram for my NUC to get Euphony ramroot working, do you have a link for this direct ordering from Apacer? Thanks

 

The woman from whom I have been ordering is Grace Wong.  [email protected]

 

 

[rickca]

1 hour ago, bodiebill said:

 

Thanks, I do have such a cable and will try.

 

In that case it may even be preferable to use the HDPlex's upper variable LT3045 2A output, which should be cleaner. Or I could go a step further:

HDPlex 15V => MPAudio DLS-HPULN 12V => EPS

to make it even cleaner.

I doubt that 2A will be anywhere near enough for your EPS12V.  But I see you already tried it!  You must be running a really light workload on that 35W CPU.

 

I'm mystified.  I would expect better dynamics from 12V/10A with lots of extra headroom.  But of course amperage is just one factor contributing to how a power supply responds to load.

[bodiebill]

38 minutes ago, rickca said:

I doubt that 2A will be anywhere near enough for your EPS12V.  But I see you already tried it!  You must be running a really light workload on that 35W CPU.

 

I'm mystified.  I would expect better dynamics from 12V/10A with lots of extra headroom.  But of course amperage is just one factor contributing to how a power supply responds to load.

 

The modest demands of this PC surprised me also. However it is a Spartan setup with only AudioLinux + NAA running without hyperthreading from an optane M.2, with SATA deactivated. The whole system (ATX + EPS) already ran well powered by the SBooster with 1.75A, so the HDPlex's 2A dedicated to the CPU only should be sufficient. 

[Chopin75]

6 hours ago, bodiebill said:

 

Thanks, I do have such a cable and will try.

 

In that case it may even be preferable to use the HDPlex's upper variable LT3045 2A output, which should be cleaner. Or I could go a step further:

HDPlex 15V => MPAudio DLS-HPULN 12V => EPS

to make it even cleaner.

 

7 hours ago, rickca said:

If you can buy or make an appropriate cable, try your HDPLEX 200W 12V rail for EPS (not going though the DC-ATX).  I haven't done this myself, but I'd expect the sound quality would be even better than HDPLEX 200W 19V ==> HDPLEX 800W DC-ATX ==> EPS.

Hm, that is what I am planning to do too, once I have ordered the wires. 

[bodiebill]

10 hours ago, bodiebill said:

 

Now setup as above, powering the CPU directly from HDPlex's upper variable LT3045 12V/2A output, and the dynamics are improved. However a tad strident so I will fabricate a better DC cable to see whether that will improve things further... 

 

I made a short DC cable using Supra CAT8 to replace the stock HDPlex cable, and things have improved. Exit tweaking (for now) and enter the music...

[drjimwillie]

This is interesting and counter to what Austinpop reported. That higher amperage sounded better, than a better quality and less amperage PSU, when powering the CPU.

I wonder if he was powering the server or the endpoint?  Or a one box system?

I wonder if increasing the amperage to the CPU of the server makes an improvement when sending data over ethernet to the endpoint?