Is this website about "computer" audio anymore?

[MikePM]

Chris:  I have been a reader (mostly passive) for years.  Your website was always my goto when deciding how to set up a NAS, or network, upgrade my computer, or tweek my software.  Unfortunately, the articles are now mostly just digital audio reviews that I can get from any of a number of websites.  I know that any silicon is basically a computer, but in the sense of how Computer Audiophile was started and its early readership, I think it no longer addresses in any consistent way, the original focus on using a personal computer, and generally available hardware and software to access great sounding music.  

 

Is it you view that the PC is finished or simply at a deadend?  I will admit that since you started mostly posting sporadic reviews of digital servers and dacs, and dropping discussion of basic computer equipment, I tune in, or log in, a lot less.

 

Where is this site headed and should we just consider it "digital audiophile" with little or no emphasis on the computers, software, and accessories that originally made this place unique?

[rando]

@The Computer Audiophile Will get his attention faster in this world of computer based spambots and acutely sensitive ears depicting their struggles through a keyboard.  

[diecaster]

The server --> endpoint --> DAC model is certainly the best way to get the best sound quality and is certainly the where digital audio is heading as the "standard". We may see more and more DACs built with the endpoint integrated, but it will be the same model. A general purpose desktop or laptop PC just isn't as good as a purpose built endpoint when it comes to low noise digital output.

 

The servers and endpoints are all computers. You are splitting hairs if you think this site needs to change its name....

[plissken]

Just now, diecaster said:

A general purpose desktop or laptop PC just isn't as good as a purpose built endpoint when it comes to low noise digital output.

 

Data?

[wgscott]

I thought this was going to be about all those folks advocating vinyl and 8-track tapes as superior.

[MikePM]

Not really splitting hairs.  As I acknowledged, any "chip" is really a computer, but my comments were directed at the direction of this website which I think was for years the source of all things audio for the computer geek.  It's not my site, but I don't think it is controversial that it really does not address the same topics it used to.  If we will never see a new CAPS or description of the benefit of various NASs, so be it.  Right now you have to delve deep into the forums to get much of a hardware discussion, or a description of the benefits of various operating system tweeks.

 

I have generally concluded that if you get a sonic transporter I5 with a microrendu, you are close to maxing out the potential of server sound quality.  But how about a discussion on say whether the newer I5's are capable of handling roon DSP, since they have the computing power of older I7s?  Or how to modify linux on the base transporter or roon nuc to add an app to access Qobuz or Deezer.  Or how to . . . 

[mjb]

@MikePM IMO you’re right, unfortunately we’ve seemingly become mostly box buyers these days. It would be nice to see some more diy projects, tips and discussions here - especially if we can all agree on the “server -> endpoint -> dac” model. Lots of room for experimentation there. 

[esldude]

I think the addition of Sponsored forums took the focus away from other forums.  It may be correctly indicative that more computer music consumers are going the route of specialized gear instead of general purpose PCs.  Or it may not.  I think on this site it Balkanized discussion and general forum activities.  

[NOMBEDES]

2 hours ago, wgscott said:

I thought this was going to be about all those folks advocating vinyl and 8-track tapes as superior.

 

 

Well, I always liked the 8 track in my car.  At the time it beat the hell out of anything else......you know it might sound better than Sat. Radio?   

[bluesman]

1 hour ago, mjb said:

@MikePM IMO you’re right, unfortunately we’ve seemingly become mostly box buyers these days. It would be nice to see some more diy projects, tips and discussions here - especially if we can all agree on the “server -> endpoint -> dac” model. Lots of room for experimentation there. 

There are still some of us out there. I did finally retire my Beaglebone Black running MPD after building it in 2013 per Chris' excellent piece.  Its inherent limitations finally got to me.  But I still have 2 R-Pis running JRiver (one purely for my son to stream remotely, so he doesn't tap my main JRMC server).  I bought 2 new 3B+ Pis on sale at Microcenter to replace my 2s a few months ago, and JRMC is pretty good on them even without all the bells & whistles.   Thanks to Xfinity Mobile's unlimited plan, I stream my own music everywhere once again.  I had to stop that when Verizon stole our unlimited plans years ago if we upgraded to a 4G phone.

 

I finally bought an SSD last week (Intel 500g) for my sole remaining Windows PC - I can't believe how much faster it is than the motorized relic it replaced!  I also went to Win10, which seems fine for JRMC.  Even my wife now uses Linux, & I put an SSD in her laptop about 2 years ago when I renewed its lease on life.  But other than that, I've spent far more of the last 2 years enjoying my music than playing with equipment. But a "box buyer" I will probably never be.

 

[davide256]

wonder if anyone's ever re-purposed a commercial  IBM or Dell server for personal audio... that would still be "computer audio" just a very small market segment. @MikePM  the PC world is a far bigger place than x86 based hardware

[crenca]

I suspect there are many more computer audiophiles than is apparent, that is to say folks who simply plug in a cheap USB cable into their "noisy" computer with its "noisy" USB hub, directly into a DAC. They don't run fancy "OS tweaks" either.  Some of them even have "soundcards" plug directly into their computer ?.

 

In other words, the subjectivist audiophiles quest for more decrapifier, tweaks, and allegedly isolating boxes is so much "old school" audiophiledom...

[plissken]

2 minutes ago, crenca said:

I suspect there are many more computer audiophiles than is apparent, that is to say folks who simply plug in a cheap USB cable into their "noisy" computer with its "noisy" USB hub, directly into a DAC. They don't run fancy "OS tweaks" either.  Some of them even have "soundcards" plug directly into their computer ?.

 

In other words, the subjectivist audiophiles quest for more decrapifier, tweaks, and allegedly isolating boxes is so much "old school" audiophiledom...

 

The take away is that we now have tons of real data on computer vs something like a SoTM or Ultra. Measurement wise with the outputs of a quality DAC they don't bring anything to the table as improving the output. 

[Foggie]

3 hours ago, MikePM said:

but in the sense of how Computer Audiophile was started and its early readership, I think it no longer addresses in any consistent way, the original focus on using a personal computer, and generally available hardware and software to access great sounding music. 

Perspective maybe?  The computer systems, technology, software, industry etc.. have changed quite a bit since CA was started.   Some things are similar but the typical CA setup yrs ago looks pretty different today and in some extremes very different. 

 

I mean you can have a super simple setup and get good results, or on the extreme end of things...sky's the limit.  Dunno, maybe its the endless options that exit now.

[AudioDoctor]

Well, we don't need to build a special computer anymore because Computer Audio has matured since then and manufacturers are catching on, and there are newcomers to the market that have found a niche to enter

[look&listen]

Think maybe you not see activity you miss, but is here all along. As mention, better practices now to split digital audio tasks to 2 (more?) devices. ‘Server’ does GP computer stuff like library db management, SRC/DSP engine, device control, &c.

‘Renderer-NAA-endpoint', then simple, quiet, device(computer) use only for finial transmit of audio data stream to DAC. Some activity on DIY NAA here, but other sites mostly better for DIY audio.

Also now activity on PC externals, clocks, interfaces, linear power supplies, expand out from old CAPS format. So maybe dig little deeper, little wider, to see such content here?

 

Like sample threads,

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38153-new-psu-build-together/

i5/7 MOBO recommendations for Dual NIC Roon core server?

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/46413-next-pc-upgrade-to-improve-sound/

linear regulator after pico or seperate power supply?

PC - cheap optimisation?

Raspberry Pi 3B+; anyone using it yet?

DIY PC server/player?

 

 

Wide ranging, always interesting thread, sometimes dive inside computer,

A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

 

 

 

[plissken]

Here is a technical review of the SoTM driving an iFi DAC. 

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, look&listen said:

Think maybe you not see activity you miss, but is here all along. 

Yes.  Another item is support for multichannel which is all but ignored by dedicated streamer/players. 

[look&listen]

9 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Another item is support for multichannel which is all but ignored by dedicated streamer/players.

Thought to include multichannel thread link, but maybe too OT?

Not for you!  

[sandyk]

5 hours ago, plissken said:

 

Data?

 

This is exactly the point.

Far too many like yourself ignore the experiences of numerous other members in other areas of the forum, and consider them as purely anecdotal, and believe that any old laptop or desktop in standard guise, even a purpose built Server, results in exactly the same audio quality when exported to an affordable DAC.

You also refuse to accept the experiences of many members with different USB cables, improved PSUs and clocking etc. and regard them as nothing more than EXPECTATION Bias.

Correct ?

[shadowlight]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

wonder if anyone's ever re-purposed a commercial  IBM or Dell server for personal audio... that would still be "computer audio" just a very small market segment. @MikePM  the PC world is a far bigger place than x86 based hardware

I did not repurpose the ThinkServer but I purchased the Xeon server when Amazon or Newegg had it on sale to run HQPlayer.  I loaded it up with 16GB of memory and put a ssd for the OS drive with my music on Windows 2012 server acting as file server.

[jabbr]

45 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

This is exactly the point.

Far too many like yourself ignore the experiences of numerous other members in other areas of the forum, and consider them as purely anecdotal, and believe that any old laptop or desktop in standard guise, even a purpose built Server, results in exactly the same audio quality when exported to an affordable DAC.

You also refuse to accept the experiences of many members with different USB cables, improved PSUs and clocking etc. and regard them as nothing more than EXPECTATION Bias.

Correct ?

 

With a properly implemented network any crappy old PC streaming to an optimized streamer will function as well as any “bespoke” PC assuming the PC has enough horsepower — 

 

prove me wrong

[crenca]

46 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

This is exactly the point.

Far too many like yourself ignore the experiences of numerous other members in other areas of the forum, and consider them as purely anecdotal, and believe that any old laptop or desktop in standard guise, even a purpose built Server, results in exactly the same audio quality when exported to an affordable DAC.

You also refuse to accept the experiences of many members with different USB cables, improved PSUs and clocking etc. and regard them as nothing more than EXPECTATION Bias.

Correct ?

 

You probably already know this, being a reasonable forum regular, but that is the weakest defense of the subjective/anecdotal I might have ever read (certainly in the last week or two) with an added bonus of a it's-so-wrong-it's-not-even-wrong use of expectation bias!  Thanks!!  ??

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

With a properly implemented network any crappy old PC streaming to an optimized streamer will function as well as any “bespoke” PC assuming the PC has enough horsepower — 

 

prove me wrong

 I wasn't talking about an optimised streamer. You appear to believe that most members feel the need to stream Audio through the whole house, at the control of a remote button push..

 This may apply to many of the frequent posters, but I doubt that it applies to the general readership..

 Many simply want high quality audio directly from a PC or Laptop into a decent DAC, without having to rummage through numerous CDs etc. stored in the " mancave" or wherever.

 This is possibly the point the OP was trying to make ?

[sandyk]

5 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

You probably already know this, being a reasonable forum regular, but that is the weakest defense of the subjective/anecdotal I might have ever read (certainly in the last week or two) with an added bonus of a it's-so-wrong-it's-not-even-wrong use of expectation bias!  Thanks!!  ??

 

 Yeah, I forgot to include your name along with Plissken. Sorry for the omission..

 Your reply was not unexpected ,as being one who demands irrefutable evidence of just about everything that other members report.