Jeff Dorgay & TONEAudio Declare War on CA

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, phototristan said:

 

This is not even the article in question...

 

Tristan, I'm sure you have wonderful expertise in many areas. Perhaps you're a photographer, given your username. You probably now Jeff is a photographer as well. Anyway, I can't recommend enough that we all stick to our areas of expertise if we're going to argue the technical details of something. 

 

 

[Jud]

8 minutes ago, beetlemania said:

I know nothing of this "RSS" other than what's is described in this thread. Heck, I can't even see anywhere on this site how/where to access content from other websites.

 

But it seems easy to comply with Jeff Dorgay's request, even if the real "problem" is his ignorance of how RSS works.

 

Hi Beetle - so here's the critical thing you need to know to understand why what at first glance seems reasonable to you in fact isn't:

 

Tone Audio is delivering a free newspaper to a whole lot of people.  They want Chris to cut out the articles from each issue of the newspaper and just leave the headlines.  However, *with one mouse click*, they can deliver a newspaper to Chris with just the headlines.

 

This gets near to describing the different levels of effort necessary by Chris and anyone else to clean up this feed on the receiving end, versus Tone Audio making the entire problem go away with a click of the mouse.

[phototristan]

2 minutes ago, Jud said:

hey want Chris to cut out the articles from each issue of the newspaper and just leave the headlines.  However, *with one mouse click*, they can deliver a newspaper to Chris with just the headlines.

 

This gets near to describing the different levels of effort necessary by Chris and anyone else to clean up this feed on the receiving end, versus Tone Audio making the entire problem go away with a click of the mouse.

 

Not really. Even if they change a setting, the full article would still remain on CA, and indexed as such on search engines. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, phototristan said:

 

Not really. Even if they change a setting, the full article would still remain on CA, and indexed as such on search engines. 

 

Stop telling lies. 

[plissken]

3 minutes ago, phototristan said:

 

Not really. Even if they change a setting, the full article would still remain on CA, and indexed as such on search engines. 

 

Yes really. 

[Jud]

Just now, phototristan said:

 

Not really. Even if they change a setting, the full article would still remain on CA, and indexed as such on search engines. 

 

The stuff *that has already been sent in full form* could remain, or could be taken down if Tone Audio wanted to have a reasonable conversation and that is what both parties decide.  But why, on Tone Audio's side, continue to create the problem?  As I've pointed out, they are driving people away from their own website with the current configuration for anyone who bothers to use an RSS reader and pick up their feed.  So why wouldn't they wish to change just for that reason, irrespective of what anyone else does with their full text feed?

 

Also, as a consumer, I can tell you it's rather a PITA to have to look through full text in a feed.  Everyone's time is limited.  Give me a summary and a link (i.e., Tone Audio, click that button!).

[wgscott]

7 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

A court would decide. He could be considered to after the publisher demands he take down. Again IANAL but my understanding is that without an explicit copyright notice its a gray area -- note that Aaron Swartz went on to participate in the Creative Commons effort designed to license internet content. I knew all the folks at the time and participated in discussions so know these issues exist.

 

 

The relevant point here is that he is not representing the content as his own.

 

If the RSS feed pushed only the title, and he had some other mechanism to scrape the content and deposit it on his website, then maybe you would have a valid objection.  But the RSS feed itself pushed the content, whether out of intent or ignorance is not relevant.  The source is attributed, and it links back to the source, thus potentially generating internet traffic for the original site.

 

Aaron Swartz republished documents behind a paywall, not documents that were pushed by RSS.  

 

If Nature pushed its entire content by RSS feed, and Aaron Swartz aggregated and displayed that feed, he would not have committed an infringement (intentional or otherwise).

 

-- note that Aaron Swartz went on to commit suicide.

[Shadders]

Tristan or Tristram is a given name of Welsh origin. It originates from the Brythonic name Drust or Drustanus. It derives from a stem meaning "noise", seen in the modern Welsh noun trwst (plural trystau) and the verb trystio "to clatter"

 

From : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_(name)

[crenca]

Boom!

 

Hey, you guys Yahoo yet?  That Yahoo has everything

 

I'm going to pull my britches down and sit on a copier and post it here.  It's just between you and I because I know you guys will do the right thing. If anyone else sees it there will be war!

 

BOOM!

[phototristan]

26 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

The stuff *that has already been sent in full form* could remain, or could be taken down if Tone Audio wanted to have a reasonable conversation and that is what both parties decide.  But why, on Tone Audio's side, continue to create the problem?  As I've pointed out, they are driving people away from their own website with the current configuration for anyone who bothers to use an RSS reader and pick up their feed.  So why wouldn't they wish to change just for that reason, irrespective of what anyone else does with their full text feed?

 

Also, as a consumer, I can tell you it's rather a PITA to have to look through full text in a feed.  Everyone's time is limited.  Give me a summary and a link (i.e., Tone Audio, click that button!).

 

It's still a choice. Unless I'm mistaken and someone is holding a gun to CA/Chris's head telling him - 'you must publish this article, in full, or else'. 

 

 

[kumakuma]

Am I the only who finds it suspicious that "Tristan" joined two hours ago just to post on this subject?

 

Looks like someone is copying the MQA sock puppet playback.

[Jud]

Just now, phototristan said:

 

It's still a choice. Unless I'm mistaken and someone is holding a gun to CA/Chris's head telling him - 'you must publish this article in full, or else'. 

 

 

 

Is it more efficient for Chris and the hundreds or thousands of others who subscribe to this feed to painstakingly edit each article for themselves, or for someone at Tone Audio to click a mouse once and solve the problem forever?

[plissken]

Just now, Jud said:

 

Is it more efficient for Chris and the hundreds or thousands of others who subscribe to this feed to painstakingly edit each article for themselves, or for someone at Tone Audio to click a mouse once and solve the problem forever?

 

I have a feeling it's going be the 12 people that subscribe to ToneAudios RSS feed. 

[Andyman]

13 hours ago, plissken said:

 

I find idiots are generally idiots all the way through. It's their unerring ability to keep operating in the same manner but expecting different results. 

 

Indeed. If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

[Shadders]

Hi,

From the wiki on RSS :

 

"This passing of content is called web syndication. Websites usually use RSS feeds to publish frequently updated information, such as blog entries, news headlines, audio, video. An RSS document (called "feed", "web feed",^[3] or "channel") includes full or summarized text, and metadata, like publishing date and author's name. "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSS

 

So, the sender either sends the SUMMARY or FULL text. It seems ToneAudio are sending the FULL text.

 

Regards,

Shadders.

[Allan F]

24 minutes ago, phototristan said:

 

It's still a choice. Unless I'm mistaken and someone is holding a gun to CA/Chris's head telling him - 'you must publish this article, in full, or else'.

 

Since you still don't or refuse to get it, let me give you a simple example. You screw up in dealing with me. You can easily fix it in seconds. I can fix it too, but it would require a great deal of time and effort on my part. You are the one complaining about the problem. Query: Who should fix it?

 

It's a rhetorical question. No reply needed.

[mjb]

12 minutes ago, Shadders said:

So, the sender either sends the SUMMARY or FULL text. It seems ToneAudio are sending the FULL text.

 

Yes, exactly. And they can solve this, as @mansr points out, with one click!

 

1 hour ago, mansr said:

The site runs on Wordpress. This is the setting he doesn't know about:

 

Much craziness over a configuration setting!

[phototristan]

11 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

Since you still don't get it. let me give you a simple example. You screw up in dealing with me. You can easily fix it in seconds. I can fix it too, but it would require a great deal of time and effort on my part. Query: Who should fix the problem?

 

Easy.  Perhaps the other guy doesn't know how to set his site, or set it incorrectly by accident. I wouldn't try to second-guess that especially when it's abundantly  clear he does not intend for the full content to be published. With that, it's clear what I would do to do the right thing. If I wanted to be a good citizen, I'd fix it on my site, or just delete it.  

 

Boom - problem solved. 

[kumakuma]

14 hours ago, plissken said:

 

I find idiots are generally idiots all the way through. It's their unerring ability to keep operating in the same manner but expecting different results. 

 

http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/

[Allan F]

10 minutes ago, phototristan said:

 

Easy.  Perhaps the other guy doesn't know how to set his site, or set it incorrectly by accident. It's clear he does not intend for the full content to be published. With that, it's clear what I would do to do the right thing. If I wanted to be a good citizen, I'd fix it on my site, or just delete it. 

 

The other guy has been told how to fix it and it's a very easy fix. All he has to do is follow what he was told if he really does not intend the full content to be published. If we are talking about good citizens, why is the person responsible for the screw up threatening to call his lawyer?

 

OTOH, perhaps he could ask his lawyer to help him fix it. I'm outta here!

[phototristan]

4 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

The other guy has been told how to fix it and it's a very easy fix. All he has to do is follow what he was told if he really does not intend the full content to be published. If we are talking about good  citizens, why is the person responsible for the screw up threatening to call his lawyer? OTOH, perhaps he could ask his lawyer to help him fix it.

 

He could be totally incompetent for all I know. That's beside the point. If it's clear he does not want his stuff on my site, I'd simply remove it from my site rather than 'Nope, you left the keys in your car so it's mine now. I'm also putting an ad in the paper telling everybody"

[Rt66indierock]

2 minutes ago, phototristan said:

 

Easy.  Perhaps the other guy doesn't know how to set his site, or set it incorrectly by accident. It's clear he does not intend for the full content to be published. With that, it's clear what I would do to do the right thing. If I wanted to be a good citizen, I'd fix it on my site, or just delete it. 

 

Since I am a good citizen I called the webmaster and left him a message that there was a problem with ToneAudio's RSS feed. I will give him specifics when he returns my call.  If he can't fix the problem I will be happy to fix it when I'm in Beaverton Oregon later this week and next week.

[mansr]

Just now, Allan F said:

OTOH, perhaps he could ask his lawyer to help him fix it.

Maybe he did, and the lawyer hired a forum troll.

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Since I am a good citizen I called the webmaster and left him a message that there was a problem with ToneAudio's RSS feed. I will give him specifics when he returns my call.  If he can't fix the problem I will be happy to fix it when I'm in Beaverton Oregon later this week and next week.

 

Boom - problem solved.  

[mansr]

1 minute ago, phototristan said:

He could be totally incompetent for all I know. That's beside the point. If it's clear he does not want his stuff on my site, I'd simply remove it from my site rather than 'Nope, you left the keys in your car so it's mine now"

If I put up a billboard by the road, is it reasonable of me to then demand that you look away or close your eyes every time you pass it?