Popular Post vortecjr Posted October 8, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 8, 2019 Congratulations to Alex and John on an impressive product launch! k-man, soares, PYP and 2 others 1 3 1 SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | endPoint | opticalModule DX | Power Supplies | Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted October 8, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 8, 2019 40 minutes ago, HumanMedia said: Now beta-testers what are your experiences with the ER? I know this may seem odd, but despite several of our beta testers being eager to share their extremely positive EtherREGEN experiences (all but one ordered a production unit, and the last fellow is waiting for some unrelated reason), I have asked that they not say anything just yet. We want everyone to discover and share the wonders of the product at near the same time. I think it will be more useful and fun to hear about EtherREGEN in a wide range of systems. Similarly, just yesterday we received two major formal review requests and I agreed (to only one so far) with the condition that it not be published until at least January. But that is a strategy in part because we can't handle a tsunami of orders, and in part because the reviewer is one who has a complex system and we really want folks to first enjoy the impact of EtherREGEN as-is, before hearing about it in a chain full of fancy power supplies and external reference clocks. Clearly I have everything backwards. I mean, a lot of audio companies send their new products first to the reviewers and they want all their selected beta-testers to talk it up. Guess we just dance to our own beat... lmitche, PYP and Jud 1 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
PYP Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Superdad said: Guess we just dance to our own beat... And that is working for you (and us). Original thinking applied not only to design but also marketing. Grimm Audio MU2 > Mola Mola Kaluga > B&W 803 D3 Cables: Kubala-Sosna Power management: Shunyata Room: Vicoustics Ethernet: Network Acoustics Muon Pro “Nature is pleased with simplicity.” Isaac Newton "As neither the enjoyment nor the capacity of producing musical notes are faculties of the least use to man...they must be ranked among the most mysterious with which he is endowed." Charles Darwin - The Descent of Man Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted October 8, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 8, 2019 18 minutes ago, PYP said: 88xx here. My wife reminded me at 8:55. How is that for true love? 🥰 That's so sweet! My wife just rolled over when I got up at 5:00 a.m. to complete preparations--and get coffee! 18 minutes ago, PYP said: The ER will be my first Uptone product, so this ordering process was new and unique to me. It is almost like winning the lottery (except you pay, hmmm). LOL. 18 minutes ago, PYP said: Clearly the logic Alex presented (and reputation of both Alex and John) was compelling And many have played with ways to improve ethernet, proving to themselves that it can be improved. Thanks! Despite there be some quarters where the whole notion of an Ethernet switch (or anything USB, Ethernet, computer, or even DAC-related) having even the slightest impact on SQ, we are quite confident that EtherREGEN is going to be an ear-opener for a large number of music-connected audiophiles. Here is a typical post that appears--oddly from another small manufacturer--over on a "science-based" forum, in a thread devoted to attacking the whole concept of the EtherREGEN, or anything related to improvements in this realm: "This product is moronic. The slightest amount of critical thinking demonstrates it to be utterly useless. My question is do they beleive this product provides benefit, in which case they are technically incompetent, or are they selling a product they know to be ineffective in which case they are deliberately making false claims?" Of course none of the lovely, hostile people over there have John's 30+ years actually designing the very chips that are in these network switches... Nenon, tapatrick and opus101 1 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Dutch Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Superdad said: Here is a typical post that appears--oddly from another small manufacturer--over on a "science-based" forum, in a thread devoted to attacking the whole concept of the EtherREGEN, or anything related to improvements in this realm That, I guess, same small manufacturer (who is now on my “never buy anything from”-list ) is writing the same rubbish on the AU/NZ edition of the Stereonet Forum.. jjraffin 1 System details Link to comment
Popular Post vortecjr Posted October 8, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 8, 2019 6 hours ago, Superdad said: You have our 'A' side and 'B' side backwards Jesus. More importantly, what you are missing is that the EtherREGEN is about much more than simply galvanic isolation. The active differential isolators and the differential flip-flops are the heart of the design. They block the passage of deterministic jitter--coming in from upstream connections and generated by the ('A' side) chips themselves. John will write about this and show measures of it, but these are second-order low-frequency (<100KHz) effects which show up on the power and ground planes and inside the chips themselves. It is common-mode stuff, so the only way to get rid of it is with differential isolation and differential reclocking flops. Despite the opticalModule having some parts in common with the EtherREGEN (I'm avoiding saying "borrowing" despite John having begun the EtherREGEN 6 months prior to the oM ), our products are quite different from each other. Best wishes, --Alex C. Sorry I got them mixed up:) I understand about the differential aspects of the design. However, you can't be suggesting that a fiber optic cable can transmit common mode stuff. John uses the parts he uses because he likes the specs and the company provides support. Having familiarity with a chip might have something to do with it as well. However, you can't discount all the work that went into the opticalRendu in regards to the switch chip. So the who is borrowing what comment is really silly. I was responding to the member suggesting the ER was much more sophisticated. The fact is that these different products share a lot of the same tech. Anyway, congrats again! Jud and Superdad 1 1 SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | endPoint | opticalModule DX | Power Supplies | Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted October 9, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 The cases fit perfectly! Took some quick pics with my very old digital camera. Now I am really done for the day. Thanks everyone! Confused, austinpop, spotforscott and 12 others 2 5 8 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
MrDerrick Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Superdad said: I know this may seem odd, but despite several of our beta testers being eager to share their extremely positive EtherREGEN experiences (all but one ordered a production unit, and the last fellow is waiting for some unrelated reason), I have asked that they not say anything just yet. We want everyone to discover and share the wonders of the product at near the same time. I think it will be more useful and fun to hear about EtherREGEN in a wide range of systems. Similarly, just yesterday we received two major formal review requests and I agreed (to only one so far) with the condition that it not be published until at least January. But that is a strategy in part because we can't handle a tsunami of orders, and in part because the reviewer is one who has a complex system and we really want folks to first enjoy the impact of EtherREGEN as-is, before hearing about it in a chain full of fancy power supplies and external reference clocks. Clearly I have everything backwards. I mean, a lot of audio companies send their new products first to the reviewers and they want all their selected beta-testers to talk it up. Guess we just dance to our own beat... Well, sometimes being successful is often from doing the opposite of others! Superdad 1 HQPE 1.4/1.5 MHz 20 Bit PCM Streaming Qobuz or playing files from external SSD Surface Go 3 i3 Tablet with HQPlayer Client ISP Cable Modem -> Ethernet -> Sonore opticalModule Sonore opticalModule -> 20m Fiber -> Sonore opticalModule -> Ethernet -> Managed Switch Managed Switch -> Ethernet -> Sonore opticalModule Deluxe -> 5m Fiber -> Sonore Sig Rendu SE Optical ( HQPlayer NAA ) Managed Switch -> Ethernet ->Small Green Computer sonicTransporter i9 Optical ( HQPlayer Embedded ) Sonore Sig Rendu SE Optical -> USB -> Holo Audio KTE May Holo Audio KTE May -> XLR -> Goldpoint SA1X/47 -> XLR to Decware ZBIT -> RCA to Decware ZSTAGE25 -> RCA to Decware SE84UFO25 -> Avantgarde Duo Omega Horns with Townshend Audio Ribbon Super Tweeters Decware SE84UFO25 -> Speaker Level to Jensen IsoMax Balanced Converter -> XLR Rives PARC -> XLR Avantgarde SUB225s Link to comment
willyhot Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I am so excited for this new gem and congrats to Alex, John and the team! I tried hard to study this threads but because my poor English I still have a question if EtherREGEN can replace my existing switch. My poor drawing attached and I wondered if anyone can help if I can technically replace my so call "audiophile switch" by EtherREGEN? I assume I can connect both cable from the wall and the one to 4K streamer to "A" side, and then "B" side to my 2 ch. Audio steamer? Thanks! Link to comment
jcn3 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 23 minutes ago, willyhot said: I am so excited for this new gem and congrats to Alex, John and the team! I tried hard to study this threads but because my poor English I still have a question if EtherREGEN can replace my existing switch. My poor drawing attached and I wondered if anyone can help if I can technically replace my so call "audiophile switch" by EtherREGEN? I assume I can connect both cable from the wall and the one to 4K streamer to "A" side, and then "B" side to my 2 ch. Audio steamer? Thanks! You've got it right - two channel streamer on the B side will optimize the sound for that device. You can use the ports on the A side as you wish. (1) holo audio red (hqp naa) > chord dave > luxman cl-38uc/mq-88uc > kef reference 1 (2) simaudio moon mind 2 > chord qutest > luxman sq-n150 > sennheiser hd600 Link to comment
wizardofoz Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 @SuperdadIf I read the specs the SFP port is a 5th port on the A side. Thus using it as an optically isolated connection from an upstream switch will allow for up to 4 streaming sources/NAS/PC/MAC etc and one output (B side) to an ethernet based device for DAC or LAN/USB interface like RPi or UltraRendu etc Also will it be possible to have any addition things sent with the E-REGEN like a MacMini upgrade etc? Link to comment
Superdad Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, willyhot said: Thanks for your prompt response. so I can assume those 4 ports on "A" side can technically perform like a standard switch. Yes, those four Gigabit ports support the full range of the usual protocols. But there is nothing “standard” about the performance of the EtherREGEN—even if you never cross the moat to the ‘B’ side. 4 minutes ago, wizardofoz said: @SuperdadIf I read the specs the SFP port is a 5th port on the A side. Thus using it as an optically isolated connection from an upstream switch will allow for up to 4 streaming sources/NAS/PC/MAC etc and one output (B side) to an ethernet based device for DAC or LAN/USB interface like RPi or UltraRendu etc. Sure, that will work great. 4 minutes ago, wizardofoz said: Also will it be possible to have any addition things sent with the E-REGEN like a MacMini upgrade etc? No problem! Either order all of what you wish on the same order, or drop us a note to combine any separate open orders you have into one shipment. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
R1200CL Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Alex or John Any chance of making an optical B side version for the opticalRendu owners ? Is it tecnical possible, or is not worth the effort ? Did any of the beta testers tried the ER with an opticalRendu? (and compared it with the opticalModule) When will your next product be announced ? 😀 Matias 1 Link to comment
Bones13 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 8 hours ago, R1200CL said: Alex or John Any chance of making an optical B side version for the opticalRendu owners ? Is it tecnical possible, or is not worth the effort ? Did any of the beta testers tried the ER with an opticalRendu? (and compared it with the opticalModule) When will your next product be announced ? 😀 The Uptone guys have stated several times that this device works the same going from the A side to the B side, and visa versa. Your network can connect to the B side, and then you can use the A side SFP connector to go to your streamer. In that case, the etherRegen could be considered a very clean copper Ethernet to optical Ethernet adapter. Do recall, that the B side jack is 100mb, and if you use the other A side Ethernet jacks, they will not be cleaned between them and the SFP, and the A side jacks will connect to the network at the 100g Limit of the B side jack. The etherRegen fits my needs perfectly. I currently use a small ethernet switch in my audio stack. There is an ‘in’ cable, and ‘out’ cables to the streamer, Roku, and BluRay player. The etherRegen will replace this box, with a 1m Ethernet cable from the B port as the last run to the streamer. The A side will get video boxes and receive the ‘in’. If the ‘in’ for my system changes to optical in the future, I’ll be ready. [Home Digital] MSB Premier DAC > Modright LS300 > Atma-Sphere "Class D" Monoblocks > Daedalus Audio Muse Studio Speakers [Home Analog] Technics SL-1200G > Boulder 508 (Benz Glider SL) [Office] Laptop > Kitsune R2R lvl3 > Violectric V281 > Meze Liric / Meze Elite [Travel] Laptop/iPad -> Focal Bathys Link to comment
thyname Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Hi @Superdad can you please link an Amazon page for a compatible fiber media converter module that works with EtherRegen? Choices are confusing Link to comment
LowMidHigh Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Ehsu said: I am so gutted that my order #8939 end up in the second batch even confirmation email received by 5:04am my time! I set my alarm to buy at launch and clicked add to cart at exactly 5am but I backed out from PayPal Express because it did not include shipping cost and remembered @Superdad preferred card payment so he can save some of his costs!! Now I will end up paying more myself because NZ will change import rules from 1 Dec 2019!! Really disappointed to be a nice guy 😞 Your story touched me. Feel your pain...But it was a race against time. No second to waste, not a move too many. Whoever drew first remained standing. Boomboy 1 Stereo [Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3] Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350] Surround [Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] Link to comment
Superdad Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 9 hours ago, sahmen said: Funny thing : I just remembered, the ER about thirty minutes ago, and placed my order just the same : Order # 902X. Does that even qualify me for the January shipping list? I do not know. Sorry to hear about your blackout. Thank you for your order. As indicated on the web page at the time you ordered--and in the confirmation e-mail you should have received--you are in the January batch. Our product web pages and the confirmation e-mails will always indicate ship date/week as closely as possible. Only exception so far occurred during the first 10 minutes of the launch when the first batch sold out faster than I could change the page to indicate that second batch begun. I will today be going through the count to determine exact changeover point (yesterday I said #8912). Once I do, I'll also guess about how many people may have ordered when the page said 1st batch but will really be in 2nd batch. I'm thinking it's perhaps 20. An e-mail will be sent to those folks. sahmen 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, HumanMedia said: It would be great to know the final adjusted cut off points. I am at the tail end of the second batch at 8990, and will be disappointed to find I’m in the January batch after all... Nothing to worry about. All order #s under 9000 are for certain shipping in 2019. And possibly a few past #9000 as well. The only very slight uncertainty until I sort it out is in the November/December transition. But this week I am really trying to focus on parts--so that all this actually happens! HumanMedia 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
jcn3 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 47 minutes ago, rogerdn said: I need to continue use of my TP-Link switch for additional devices, should the router be connected to the ER or doesn’t it matter ? Meaning should the ER be upstream of the TP switch ? You want the endpoint/player attached to the B side of the ER. After that, it shouldn't matter too much since the player is isolated. I think the best arrangement would be Router > TPLink Switch (with non-audio devices attached) > EtherRegen (player on B side; other audio devices on A side). ericuco 1 (1) holo audio red (hqp naa) > chord dave > luxman cl-38uc/mq-88uc > kef reference 1 (2) simaudio moon mind 2 > chord qutest > luxman sq-n150 > sennheiser hd600 Link to comment
Popular Post JohnSwenson Posted October 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 13 hours ago, R1200CL said: Alex or John Any chance of making an optical B side version for the opticalRendu owners ? Is it tecnical possible, or is not worth the effort ? Did any of the beta testers tried the ER with an opticalRendu? (and compared it with the opticalModule) When will your next product be announced ? 😀 There are some constraints: The components that make up the actual isolation circuit (Alex calls this the ADIM) at the moment only work at 100Mbs. There are rumours that higher speed versions are on their way, but they are not here yet. When they do they will be way expensive, take a lot of power and board space. The fiber modes used by the SFP cage do NOT support auto-negotiation; both sides have to be manually set for 100 or 1000, the connections cannot figure things out when you plug them in. We have chosen the 1000 mode since the vast majority of optical equipment out there right now uses 1000mbps. The result of these two is that we cannot just put an optical interface on the 'B' side, it would have to be 100 to match the speed of the ADIM. We are trying to keep the B side as simple as possible so there is no switch on the B side, thus we can either have an RJ45 or optical, but not both. So doing Gigabit optical on the B side would require adding a switch chip on the B side, which I don't really want to do. It adds complexity, board space and eats a lot more power. We would HAVE to go to a bigger case, charge a lot more money etc. We decided to go with the SFP on the A side since there is already a switch chip there which can generate the fiber protocol, do speed conversion etc. In order to support people that wanted to run fiber into an endpoint we duplicated the ADIM so it is symmetrical, it does exactly the same thing going from A->B and from B->A. As long as you don't have anything else plugged into any of the A side RJ45 jacks the the signal quality coming out of the SFP cage will be essentially the same as what is coming out of the B side RJ45. They can't be EXACTLY the same, they are different protocols and electrical connection coming from different chips, but both use identical clocks and power networks using the same care and techniques in board layout. If you DO use the optical out to an endpoint (say an opticalRendu), ideally you would not plug a NAS or printer, etc into any of the A side RJ45 jacks. Use some other switch for these connections and plug the B side RJ45 into the other switch. John S. Superdad, Puma Cat, jos and 3 others 2 3 1 Link to comment
owldiscourse Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Maybe a silly question. So what does the clock output connect to? How important is it to use to get the most performance out of this? Link to comment
elan120 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, owldiscourse said: So what does the clock output connect to? I assume you mean "clock input" instead. That is the 10MHz reference input, made available for people who has an external reference clock to connect to. Superdad 1 Link to comment
Superdad Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, owldiscourse said: How important is it to use to get the most performance out of this? Use of an external reference clock is absolutely NOT required to get stellar performance from the EtherREGEN. jos 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
sahmen Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 In order to keep all noise reduction protocols optimal (or the EtherRegen-erated signal totally clean downstream) , does one need any special RJ45 cable to connect the B-side of the ER to a streamer (in my case a Metrum Acoustics Ambre) or will any old Cat 5 or 6 or 7 cable (from, say, Monoprice or Blue Jeans) do? Link to comment
nonesup Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 4 hours ago, Superdad said: Use of an external reference clock is absolutely NOT required to get stellar performance from the EtherREGEN. Hi Alex Suppose that people who use the ER with a high quality 10 MHz clock will report that they observe an increase in SQ. You already told us that an OCXO that really improves the ER clock would cost at least $ 500. The manufacture of an Ether Regen SE, with that OCXO clock built into the board, would only change the clocks, or is technically more complicated. Francisco Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref. 5 SE / Gryphon Essence Stereo / Rockport Atria I / Göbel XLR and RCA Cables / Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / Sablon Ethernet Cabe / MIT Magnum MA Sepeakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (3), Sigma NR V1(1) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Paul Hynes SR7T for Melco S-100 Pink Faun Upgraded / Farad Super3 for IPS Modem-Router / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5 Link to comment
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