MQA The Truth lies Somewhere in the Middle

[Sal1950]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

Is there really anything meaningful left to say that hasn't already been said in this 87 page thread ?

Yes I think so. If for no other reason than to have fresh time stamped posts for search engines to lock onto. There are few other places where the truth of MQA can be found and personally I'd like this thread/site to be near the top of the list when folks search for MQA info.

[Currawong]

On 11/15/2018 at 5:14 PM, datasyd said:

 

As compelling as the untreated hi-res file sounded, I literally laughed at the difference when the MQA version began. Not only did it feel as though a veil had been lifted, with far more color to the sound, but instruments also possessed more body. With more meat on dem bones, I also noticed less of a digital edge on the violin. I've heard Hahn in concert several times, and this was the closest to real I've ever heard her violin sound on recording". [emphasis mine].

 

This has nothing to do with MQA -- They re-mastered the file to enhance the instruments. This is what mastering of a recording does in the first place -- sets up the music to sound better for whatever final market it targets, eg: heavy compression for modern pop/rock and  more minimal processing for jazz and classical. If the MQA group didn't run all the music through whatever DSP software they set up, people would be all over the place saying that they didn't hear any difference with MQA and it would be dead in the water.  The flip side is they wouldn't succeed in selling a pure re-mastering system, as there would be no reason to persuade music labels to adopt it for their back catalog if there wasn't some kind of file format they could re-sell consumers, along with a bunch of new equipment from manufacturers. The obvious problem is that their whole pitch about "masters" and "de-blurring" has been shown to be a bunch of BS.

 

It's the Emperor's New Music.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Save your keystrokes folks. Stay on topic or your comments will be moved to the off topic graveyard.  

[sandyk]

39 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

Yes I think so. If for no other reason than to have fresh time stamped posts for search engines to lock onto.

 

 O.K. That's a good reason.

[Lee Scoggins]

4 hours ago, shadowlight said:

 

Let's see if I can try to get the thread back on track.

 

Have you tried Qobuz and what is your opinion compared to same track/master with Qobuz and MQA?

 

I have a trial subscription to Qobuz and used to have Tidal but got tired of the constant bombardment of music that I was not interested in from Tidal promotion, so no chance of comparing the two.

 

I like Qobuz however I feel Tidal sounds slightly better.  The reason for this, I believe, is that I can play Tidal via Roon which seems to make things more clear.  Therefore I believe no valid comparison is possible yet.  Qobuz should be available via Roon soon.

 

I do believe the deblurring filters of MQA will create an advantage over non-deblurred 24/96 but it remains to be seen how much that advantage would be.

[Jud]

1 minute ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

I like Qobuz however I feel Tidal sounds slightly better.  The reason for this, I believe, is that I can play Tidal via Roon which seems to make things more clear.  Therefore I believe no valid comparison is possible yet.  Qobuz should be available via Roon soon.

 

I do believe the deblurring filters of MQA will create an advantage over non-deblurred 24/96 but it remains to be seen how much that advantage would be.

 

Audirvana+ plays both.

 

 I did not A/B a particular piece of music.  What I did do was trial Tidal/MQA, with which I was not impressed versus my hi-res local files.  I thought the MQA files sounded slightly worse than the local hi-res.

 

Then about a year later IIRC, I trailed Qobuz RedBook and hi-res.  I was *very* impressed - both sounded every bit as good as my local files.

[KeenObserver]

1 hour ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

I like Qobuz however I feel Tidal sounds slightly better.  The reason for this, I believe, is that I can play Tidal via Roon which seems to make things more clear.  Therefore I believe no valid comparison is possible yet.  Qobuz should be available via Roon soon.

 

I do believe the deblurring filters of MQA will create an advantage over non-deblurred 24/96 but it remains to be seen how much that advantage would be.

 

Deblurring?

 

Never heard that word before!

[KeenObserver]

If the cycle of buzzwords is going to start all over again,  I need to go put on my muck boots.

 

And if the cycle is going to start all over again,  MQA must be a horrible proposition if its proponents have to keep repeating the same BS over and over again!

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Lee Scoggins said:

I do believe the deblurring filters of MQA will create an advantage over non-deblurred 24/96 but it remains to be seen how much that advantage would be

So far it’s a disadvantage given all the objective data. 

[datasyd]

On 11/16/2018 at 2:51 AM, Rt66indierock said:

 

Those of us who listen to live music regularly would not consider a recording to be especially close to a live event. 

 

I have played a cello since I was 5 years old, sometimes up to six hours per day. I gained a first class honours in music at 19 years old.

 

How much live music have you listened to?

[datasyd]

On 11/16/2018 at 12:50 AM, jabbr said:

so beautiful I cried” etc and those descriptions could be just as easily made by someone listening to earbuds in an iPhone

 

You must be beta testing some future iPhone earbuds that I'm unaware of.

 

Must admit,  when I listen to non-MQA files using my ifi Micro iDSD BL DAC/Amp playing Tidal on my iPhone through my Denon AH-D7200 headphones they sound ok. But there have been no tears.

[Shadders]

6 hours ago, Lee Scoggins said:

I do believe the deblurring filters of MQA will create an advantage over non-deblurred 24/96 but it remains to be seen how much that advantage would be.

Hi,

The MQA AES paper Figure 14 shows you that the MQA filters actually cause blurring. This is an own goal by MQA. Shadorne pointed this out in another thread.

 

Now that you know the facts, can one assume you will not repeat the false information that MQA filters are deblurring ?

 

Regards,

Shadders.

[Siltech817]

1 hour ago, datasyd said:

But there have been no tears.

 

You don't weep with joy when new ≤ 16-bit worlds are birthed?

[FredericV]

MQA's latest shill has arrived in the topic.

[Confused]

6 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

 

Deblurring?

 

Never heard that word before!

You need to be more focused.....?

[Rt66indierock]

6 hours ago, datasyd said:

 

I have played a cello since I was 5 years old, sometimes up to six hours per day. I gained a first class honours in music at 19 years old.

 

How much live music have you listened to?

 

A shill like apeal to authority with your with your musical experience. I raised a cellist.

 

I’ve listened to live music often enough that I consider going to concerts a big part of my lifestyle. I get on airplanes to attend live events do you?

[jabbr]

8 hours ago, datasyd said:

 

I have played a cello since I was 5 years old, sometimes up to six hours per day. I gained a first class honours in music at 19 years old.

 

How much live music have you listened to?

 

Oh amazing, so you are an expert!

 

There is no excuse for MQA bringing "tears to your eyes" then, unless your "first class honours" school used recorded music for its master classes.

 

Tears to my eyes would be when I heard my own daughter play a Hindemith solo at the Hindemith Music Center in Blonay, Switzerland, outside with the lake in the background. Or when she performed at Castlevecchio in Verona, and the orchestra played Symphony at an Exhibition.

 

Don't be trite.

 

 

8 hours ago, datasyd said:

 

You must be beta testing some future iPhone earbuds that I'm unaware of.

 

Must admit,  when I listen to non-MQA files using my ifi Micro iDSD BL DAC/Amp playing Tidal on my iPhone through my Denon AH-D7200 headphones they sound ok. But there have been no tears.

 

Your tears? 

 

[shadowlight]

14 hours ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

I like Qobuz however I feel Tidal sounds slightly better.  The reason for this, I believe, is that I can play Tidal via Roon which seems to make things more clear.  Therefore I believe no valid comparison is possible yet.  Qobuz should be available via Roon soon.

 

I do believe the deblurring filters of MQA will create an advantage over non-deblurred 24/96 but it remains to be seen how much that advantage would be.

Thank you for your response.

[rickca]

On 11/15/2018 at 12:17 PM, Lee Scoggins said:

 

I saw Gil at Carnegie Hall not too long ago.  It was wonderful.

Gil is a good guy. ?

[jabbr]

On 11/16/2018 at 12:07 PM, Jud said:

People get outraged about closed systems and DRM all the time.  How badly has that worked out for Apple and Microsoft?  How badly for DVD and Blu-Ray?  What is absolutely critical to dollar value of a business proposition like MQA is consumers-at-large feeling that it is an improvement. 

 

Apple is different than Microsoft:

 

1) Mac OS X under the hood is Unix

2) Apple mostly sells hardware, and mostly gives away software (though operates both online and physical retail)

3) Microsoft enabled the current mix and match build a PC market — and the PCs also run Linux

4) Apple enabled the pay for music download market — and you can write to an unencrypted CD

5) Apple transformed and opened the smartphone market — before the iPhone, the carriers controlled the software on the phone

 

MQA promises nothing real for the consumer 

[Rt66indierock]

People I've been away teaching Continuing Legal Education and Continuing Professional Education. Topics were about the new American taxes laws.

 

I'm disappointed at many of the posts.  I want better so stay on topic, hunt shills when necessary, Frank talk about MQA, the company or the seminar here (the topics of the thread) or post it in your own threads. christopher3393,  Agitator on Archimago's site and Hoffman's site said the same thing as Brinksmanship did about MQA's sound. Bob Craver and other's have called MQA a big fraud no different than Brinksmanship did. And I finally get back on good terms with Michael L and you may mess it up thanks. Chris we'll talk more about how "food fights" impact your advertising.  

 

I'm to play the rest of weekend in the sun and listen to some live music.

 

I have more to post soon including the end of the vaporware post. I have horse's mouth conformation that there are more than 10,000 albums. We will move on to the next phase is MQA commercially viable?

 

[Miska]

10 minutes ago, jabbr said:

2) Apple mostly sells hardware, and mostly gives away software (though operates both online and physical retail)

 

Yeah, some of their own software. But they take 30% (IIRC) margin on all sales through App Store. And quite a bit of premium on the hardware too (you get to pay for software as part of the hardware).

 

For example their Final Cut Pro or Logic Pro isn't free... (although overall very reasonably priced)

 

In the end, they make big $$$ on software too. iOS would be dead without App Store.

 

[Jud]

4 hours ago, jabbr said:

 

Oh amazing, so you are an expert!

 

There is no excuse for MQA bringing "tears to your eyes" then, unless your "first class honours" school used recorded music for its master classes.

 

Tears to my eyes would be when I heard my own daughter play a Hindemith solo at the Hindemith Music Center in Blonay, Switzerland, outside with the lake in the background. Or when she performed at Castlevecchio in Verona, and the orchestra played Symphony at an Exhibition.

 

Don't be trite.

 

 

 

Your tears? 

 

 

There was a lousy pizza joint in college that had Smokey’s Tracks of My Tears on the jukebox.  I ate a lot of bad pizza just to hear that song.

[jabbr]

54 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yeah, some of their own software. But they take 30% (IIRC) margin on all sales through App Store. And quite a bit of premium on the hardware too (you get to pay for software as part of the hardware).

 

Sure. They have been very successful creating an online store as well as a retail store. Not sure what Amazon makes as markup for CDs or Books? In any case I was just trying to say that Apple is more hardware and Microsoft is more software (but obviously sells the XBox). Who ever dreamt that the Apple stores at the mall would be packed while the Microsoft stores sat empty?

 

Quote

 

For example their Final Cut Pro or Logic Pro isn't free... (although overall very reasonably priced)

 

In the end, they make big $$$ on software too. iOS would be dead without App Store.

 

 

In both cases their success has involved ecosystems that can be closed but also can be open (e.g. standard motherboards, BIOS, cards)

 

MQA appears to be an entirely closed system. Final Cut Pro authored movies don't require Apple firmware to play back.

[jabbr]

1 minute ago, Jud said:

 

There was a lousy pizza joint in college that had Smokey’s Tracks of My Tears on the jukebox.  I ate a lot of bad pizza just to hear that song.

 

Did you cry over dropped pizza? ?