EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[Aidagent]

I have had contact with the main distributor in Sweden for my dac and he is curious about EtherRegen as many of his products have the possibility to connect directly via ethernet. I promised to tell him my impressions later on.

I think that there is an enormous demand for this kind of product but many don’t know of EtherRegen at this point and maby that’s a good thing. Otherwise UpTone world have an impossible task to meet up with the demand.

 

I have just had to quit my job because of health reasons. I'm in the first round from Audio Store. but may not be able to get the money right now. we'll see. If that is the case someone else will have the chance to get one from the first run, and I can get on the train later on. And that’s a good thing to 🙂

 

Right now I'm using a hard and software optimized NUC and it sounds really good. but I'd much rather use EtherRegen directly into the dac over the network. I have an AQVOX Switch gen 1, but it does not produce as good sound as through USB. I have a strong feeling that EtherRegen may be the answer for many who just like me to take out the computer in the chain. Congratulations to all of you who will soon know the answer 🙂.

 

It warms my heart that your hard work has been acknowledged by the incredible response that first hour of sales. you are worth all the praise you can get ❤️. Please do not use your precious time to respons to my message. you need that energy for what’s going on.

[R1200CL]

6 hours ago, sahmen said:

In order to keep all noise reduction protocols optimal (or the EtherRegen-erated signal totally clean downstream) , does one need any special RJ45 cable to connect the B-side of the ER to a streamer (in my case a Metrum Acoustics Ambre) or will any old Cat 5 or 6 or 7 cable (from, say, Monoprice or Blue Jeans) do? 

Blue Jeans is just fine. You may use minimum length of one meter. But this is not a requirement. 
Don’t use a cable with metal plugs if the plugs are connected. 
The Audioquest Vodka will do, but is totally overpriced. 
 

If you must use something extremely good, this one has implemented John’s theory how to build a Faraday Cage into a cable. 
Nicknamed JSSG (John Swenson Shielding Guidelines). And later extended into JSSG360 by another member here at the forum. 
 

This technology has been very successful on DC cables. 

[i.deklein]

6 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Blue Jeans is just fine. You may use minimum length of one meter. But this is not a requirement. 
Don’t use a cable with metal plugs if the plugs are connected. 
The Audioquest Vodka will do, but is totally overpriced. 
 

If you must use something extremely good, this one has implemented John’s theory how to build a Faraday Cage into a cable. 
Nicknamed JSSG (John Swenson Shielding Guidelines). And later extended into JSSG360 by another member her at forum. 
 

This technology has been very successful on DC cables. 

 

Please ...these rules are part of the CAT-7 cable geometry design rules, isnt’it ?

 

[R1200CL]

4 minutes ago, i.deklein said:

 

Please ...these rules are part of the CAT-7 cable geometry design rules, isnt’it ?

 

I don’t think that has any relevance, and especially not to a 100Mhz interface 😀

The ethernet cables has been discussed a lot in this an other threads. Some members here has quite good skills about this as well, so try and search the forum. 
 

It’s not a good idea to start another cable discussion in this tread.
Almost any ethernet cable will do. But avoid those (I forgot category) with shielding that make ground connections between devices.

 

Belden website is very informative also, and a good source to learn about ethernet cables. 

[LowMidHigh]

7 hours ago, sahmen said:

In order to keep all noise reduction protocols optimal (or the EtherRegen-erated signal totally clean downstream) , does one need any special RJ45 cable to connect the B-side of the ER to a streamer (in my case a Metrum Acoustics Ambre) or will any old Cat 5 or 6 or 7 cable (from, say, Monoprice or Blue Jeans) do? 

 

R1200CL has given you a good advise.

 

John S. mentions the cables to and from the ER. If I recall correctly, CAT6, but nothing special,. it shouldn't be grounded from the ER to the target (meaning, avoid metallic RJ45).

 

In general, exotic digital cables offer no sonic advantage, but certainly lighten your wallet, some costing more than the ER itself...Still, some people swear by them, but mostly fail every AB/X. I'd say, get a well constructed bulk CAT6, a bag of RJ45 terminators and plastic boots, a crimp tool and teach yourself how to put those cables together. Hint: super easy! The cables will come out inexpensive, cut to size and boost your pride of ownership.

 

** Out of respect to this thread, no reply to any proponent of high-end cables **  

 

 

 

 

[vortecjr]

9 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Use of an external reference clock is absolutely NOT required to get stellar performance from the EtherREGEN. 

I agree with you. However, the silly thread will say you need two ERs in series each with external reference clocks in order to get good sound. Also, for good measure the silly thread will say you need two linear power supplies that you have to wait over a year to get or it just won't sound quite right. I'm just saying... 

[stevebythebay]

5 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

R1200CL has given you a good advise.

 

John S. mentions the cables to and from the ER. If I recall correctly, CAT6, but nothing special,. it shouldn't be grounded from the ER to the target (meaning, avoid metallic RJ45).

 

In general, exotic digital cables offer no sonic advantage, but certainly lighten your wallet, some costing more than the ER itself...Still, some people swear by them, but mostly fail every AB/X. I'd say, get a well constructed bulk CAT6, a bag of RJ45 terminators and plastic boots, a crimp tool and teach yourself how to put those cables together. Hint: super easy! The cables will come out inexpensive, cut to size and boost your pride of ownership.

 

** Out of respect to this thread, no reply to any proponent of high-end cables **  

 

 

 

I'll be testing out the new EtherREGEN next month with a few cables.  I'm not expecting much compared to my existing switch, since the two Ethernet cables I'm already using are loaded with common mode filtering, along with much higher characteristics for transfer. 

 

My advice is to try cables in your system once you deploy the EtherREGEN and see if/where they may make any significant difference.  Stick with a single company's technology, as I've found mixing things often defeats benefits of one design (did so with Audioquest, Wireworld, etc.).  Shielded vs. unshielded and Cat6 vs. Cat7 vs. Cat8 can screw things up as well.  Most important of all connections seems to be from the switch to the DAC (or whatever is first element downstream of the switch).

[Nenon]

5 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Blue Jeans is just fine. You may use minimum length of one meter. But this is not a requirement. 
Don’t use a cable with metal plugs if the plugs are connected. 
The Audioquest Vodka will do, but is totally overpriced. 
 

If you must use something extremely good, this one has implemented John’s theory how to build a Faraday Cage into a cable. 
Nicknamed JSSG (John Swenson Shielding Guidelines). And later extended into JSSG360 by another member here at the forum. 
 

This technology has been very successful on DC cables. 

 

I think it's a mistake to apply knowledge gathered from other products to the EtherREGEN. For example, the idea not to connect the metal plugs comes from tests where noisy devices were connected to your DAC/Streamer. The common ground would transfer noise from the noisy device to your DAC, which would result in sound quality degradation. 

I would consider the properly isolated output of the EtherREGEN as a very clean source with as little noise as possible. I would also take every care to preserve that signal as clean as possible. What works and what makes a difference is yet to be determined. We should consider every possible option to preserve the clean signal. 

[Foggie]

6 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

it shouldn't be grounded from the ER to the target (meaning, avoid metallic RJ45).

Not necessarily directed at you, but many of the higher end ethernet cables all seem use the fancy metal connectors - I assume these don't have a shield connected to these?  As been stated many times, its not recommended to use shielded eth cables with the metal clip on the ends, and if you must, remove the clip at least from one end - at least that's my take

 

[cool_chris]

Can we hear any SQ summary from you John and Alex please ?

Everyone here already purchesed ER from you 😄

Would love to see anything you feel comfortable to post here.

 

Alternatively Beta Testers might say something if you let them to share some of their experience. 

[RickyV]

2 minutes ago, cool_chris said:

Alternatively Beta Testers might say something if you let them to share some of their experience. 

That’s a good idea. 10 beta testers 10 honest reviews, would be nice 👍 

 

 

[Superdad]

11 minutes ago, Foggie said:

Not necessarily directed at you, but many of the higher end ethernet cables all seem use the fancy metal connectors - I assume these don't have a shield connected to these?  As been stated many times, its not recommended to use shielded eth cables with the metal clip on the ends, and if you must, remove the clip at least from one end - at least that's my take.

 

On this subject, and when using an EtherREGEN, the truth is I am not sure if it will anymore matter whether the shields are ties (via shield and metal shells) at both ends. 

Between the 12-core-per-port magnetics and the through-capacitor-center-tap-to-ground shunting we do on the 'A'-side, and the extreme differential isolation across the moat to the 'B' side, I'm really going to be surprised if people hear much of anything with upstream Ethernet cable tweaks and the shielding of those.

Guess we'll see--or rather hear.  

Actually, this is the sort of thing that John could set up to measure (he has measured Ethernet leakage and these grounding issues before).  But:

a) I don't know that he has many/any metal-shell/end-to-end shield cables on hand;

b) He has many way more important things to do with his time at this point.

[Superdad]

19 minutes ago, cool_chris said:

Can we hear any SQ summary from you John and Alex please ?

Everyone here already purchesed ER from you 😄

Would love to see anything you feel comfortable to post here.

I already posted about my first experience with EtherREGEN weeks ago.  

John and I always tell the truth of what we hear, but we understand that as the developers our opinions about the performance can not carry the same weight as those from a few hundred users. 

 

Quote

Alternatively Beta Testers might say something if you let them to share some of their experience. 

Sorry, not going to happen. I have twice already explained my position on this.

 

13 minutes ago, RickyV said:

That’s a good idea. 10 beta testers 10 honest reviews, would be nice 👍 

100 will be better! 

[Ricardo007]

7 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

John S. mentions the cables to and from the ER. If I recall correctly, CAT6, but nothing special,. it shouldn't be grounded from the ER to the target (meaning, avoid metallic RJ45).

Can somebody provide reference to John Swenson post where the issue of no metal connector or if metal then no connection to shield is tackled?

[PYP]

When folks receive their ERs and report their impressions, I hope they note their other equipment and where in the "chain" the ER is used.  Personally, I always find that part interesting.  

 

For my system, for example, the ER will go between Roon (in-wall ethernet) and the Mola Mola Tambaqui's (DAC/streamer/preamp) ethernet input.  Simple.  

[Foggie]

11 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

On this subject, and when using an EtherREGEN, the truth is I am not sure if it will anymore matter whether the shields are ties (via shield and metal shells) at both ends. 

Between the 12-core-per-port magnetics and the through-capacitor-center-tap-to-ground shunting we do on the 'A'-side, and the extreme differential isolation across the moat to the 'B' side, I'm really going to be surprised if people hear much of anything with upstream Ethernet cable tweaks and the shielding of those.

Guess we'll see--or rather hear.  

Actually, this is the sort of thing that John could set up to measure (he has measured Ethernet leakage and these grounding issues before).  But:

a) I don't know that he has many/any metal-shell/end-to-end shield cables on hand;

b) He has many way more important things to do with his time at this point.

Not to veer off onto cables, one of the points I was looking for is being the fancy connectors are metal, does that make them inherently problematic as it relates to ground or do they have to be tied to the shield/drain wire or whatever?  I have no horse in the cable race per se, been using BJC 6a for awhile.

[kennyb123]

6 hours ago, vortecjr said:

However, the silly thread will say you need two ERs in series each with external reference clocks in order to get good sound. Also, for good measure the silly thread will say you need two linear power supplies that you have to wait over a year to get or it just won't sound quite right. I'm just saying... 

 

Why misrepresent what they are pursing in that thread?  It should be obvious to anyone that they are hoping to go way beyond getting "good sound" and are looking for the best possible sound they can achieve.  

 

Aren't you also trying to do the same with the products you sell?  Why even advance beyond the microRendu if all that matters is getting "good sound"?   

[Superdad]

11 minutes ago, Foggie said:

Not to veer off onto cables, one of the points I was looking for is being the fancy connectors are metal, does that make them inherently problematic as it relates to ground or do they have to be tied to the shield/drain wire or whatever?  I have no horse in the cable race per se, been using BJC 6a for awhile.

 

Well a cable whose metal-shelled RJ45 is not tied to a shield should be benign for all applications.

What I was saying is still uncertain is if a cable with metal shells connected to end-to-end-braided shield wire is an issue for EtherREGEN users the way it can be with other switches.

 

And yes, let's please leave the Ethernet cable discussion for other threads. Thanks. 

[Superdad]

14 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

Why misrepresent what they are pursing in that thread?  It should be obvious to anyone that they are hoping to go way beyond getting "good sound" and are looking for the best possible sound they can achieve.  

Aren't you also trying to do the same with the products you sell?  Why even advance beyond the microRendu if all that matters is getting "good sound"?   

 

Let's please not go in this direction. 

This is the EtherREGEN thread.

Thanks.

[R1200CL]

9 hours ago, vortecjr said:

I agree with you. However, the silly thread will say you need two ERs in series each with external reference clocks in order to get good sound. Also, for good measure the silly thread will say you need two linear power supplies that you have to wait over a year to get or it just won't sound quite right. I'm just saying... 

 

I haven’t read that tread for a while. It’s toooooo looooong 😀

 

However I disagree with you on the principle of two good switches in series. (Forget external clocks). 

 

A good switch (10 GHz preferably) upfront the EtherRegen may very well benefit the digital chain. Even your opticalModule upfront probably will. (And of cause dual ER, but yes, probably total overkill)
 

My assumption is based on John’s writing where he, somewhere in this tread I think, explain how “bad” clock signatures from cheap network gear influence the whole chain downstream. 

 

What I may be wrong about is if the ER is total immune against how it’s being fed.

 

 

[vortecjr]

I prepared this diagram (approved by the heads of state) to help explain how to properly hook up a Rendu to an EtherREGEN. 

 

[Matias]

Using B side input and A side optic output exclusively makes the $640 EtherREGEN do the same function as the $250 opticalModule though...

[R1200CL]

56 minutes ago, Matias said:

Using B side input and A side optic output exclusively makes the $640 EtherREGEN do the same function as the $250 opticalModule though...

That’s not my understanding reading all John and Alex’s explainations in this thread. 
 

But I have purchased both, so I can report back in January 😀

[jos]

1 hour ago, Matias said:

Using B side input and A side optic output exclusively makes the $640 EtherREGEN do the same function as the $250 opticalModule though...

In my humble opinion you don’t need optical anymore with the promises of the new ER. Don’t make your chain over complicated. Superdad should sent one to HiFi news for a review to enter the broader market.

[matthias]

4 hours ago, vortecjr said:

I prepared this diagram (approved by the heads of state) to help explain how to properly hook up a Rendu to an EtherREGEN. 

 

 

IMO, you can also connect an opticalRendu via the B side with copper SFP.

 

Matt