A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Johnseye]

7 hours ago, flkin said:

The wires you are referring to is probably the PCX wire Pink Faun uses in their high end streamers. It’s a tin-coated extruded copper wire strand encased in Teflon. Sort of like the Duelund cables I suppose but those are wrapped in oiled cotton instead. 

I have some more info to contribute in the near future about this wire as I’m currently breaking in a Pink Faun Ultra Powercord made of the similar wires and plan to compare it with the Nordost Valhalla power cord. Will post my findings in AS. 
 

Great job on the switch mods, looks promising. 😄

 

Anyone know why Pink Faun uses tin coated copper?  I know why it's used in many analog systems and am wondering if PF is using it to tame digital brightness. 

 

I've made speaker cables from the old Western Electric tin coated copper. I have pure silver speaker cables, pure copper cables and silver coated copper. I know well what each do to the sound at that point in the system. Tin coated copper will dull the sound. Dull may not be the best adjective but it's close. 

[Bruce Orr]

If this hasn’t yet been shared, Jord has advised the cost to make Brian’s mods to the S100 is est. $1800 US. + VAT. That would bring total including S100 to $3700+. The good news: These changes can be turned around in 2-3 days

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, Nsxturbo said:

I have one and other than the extra ports, it uses the same Broadcom processor and similar topology.

It sounds equally good here to the BS-GS2016, each running off the same model linear power supply.

 

Interesting. The Broadcom chip on the Buffalo BS-GS2016 is a 16Gbps switch chip according to mouser.com. 

A 24-port switch using the same switch chip would most likely require a different implementation. For example it won't be a line rate switch anymore but one that can be oversubscribed. Any chance you can take a photo of the broadcom chip model? 

[seeteeyou]

Both Juniper SRX300 and revision C1 of D-Link DGS-1210 series are sharing the same BCM53343 (Broadcom Hurricane 2 SoC) inside Buffalo / Melco

 

https://openwrt.org/toh/d-link/dgs-1210

https://forum.openwrt.org/t/juniper-srx300-octeon-3-bcm-hurricane-2-soc-switch-any-chance-to-get-switch-working/45956

 

Let's take a look at the GPL Source Code section linked below, all 10/24/28/52-port models of DGS-120 (revision C1) are pointing to the same stuff @ 155.49 MB

 

https://tsd.dlink.com.tw/downloads2008list.asp?Category=Product%20Data%20II%3ESwitch%3ESmart%20GE

 

For firmware updates, all BS-GS20XX/BS-GS20XXP models from Buffalo are sharing the same bsgs20-10352.exe file

 

https://www.buffalo.jp/support/download/detail/?dl_contents_id=60675

Quote

BS-GS2008、BS-GS2016、BS-GS2024、BS-GS2048、BS-GS2008P、BS-GS2016P、BS-GS2024P

 

Extract that with 7-Zip etc. and we'll end up with only bsgs20-10352.rom and readme.txt afterwards.

 

Regarding the specs, the count of address table turned out to be 16,384 for all models and then it's the same deal again for the amount of main memory

 

https://www.buffalo.jp/product/detail/bs-gs2016.html

Quote

BS-GS2048：128Mbytes
BS-GS2024：128Mbytes
BS-GS2016：128Mbytes
BS-GS2008：128Mbytes

 

Granted it's more like a marketing ploy of some sort

 

https://www.melco-audio-masters.com/uploads/1/0/1/5/101505220/mel_2073_s100_a4_2pp_info_sheet_v3.pdf#page=2

Quote

Key to creating a stable and resilient data stream for extreme Hi-Res streaming is the Packet Buffer and S100 has 1.5MB of buffer capability to deal with erratic external connectivity.

 

Though it's still kinda interesting to try BS-GS2048 for about $500 by disabling 40 outta 48 ports while getting rid of the fan(s), provided that won't be complaining about the lack of active cooling

 

https://www.buffalo.jp/product/detail/bs-gs2048.html

Quote

BS-GS2048：3Mbytes
BS-GS2024：1.5Mbytes
BS-GS2016：1.5Mbytes
BS-GS2008：1.5Mbytes

 

[auricgoldfinger]

5 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Anyone know why Pink Faun uses tin coated copper?  I know why it's used in many analog systems and am wondering if PF is using it to tame digital brightness. 

 

I've made speaker cables from the old Western Electric tin coated copper. I have pure silver speaker cables, pure copper cables and silver coated copper. I know well what each do to the sound at that point in the system. Tin coated copper will dull the sound. Dull may not be the best adjective but it's close. 

 

Farad likes tinned copper, which is no surprise given it's an offshoot of Pink Faun.  Mattijs insists it sounds better in a DC cable as compared to silver.  I think the Audio Sensibility Signature Silver DC cable is far better, and I am not alone in that regard.

[austinpop]

Dual-BNC HFC CT-2 Cables - My experience with the Schroeder method

 

Several people have noticed this in my latest system diagrams and asked, and I realized I've not really talked about my current dual-BNC High Fidelity Cables CT-2 cables between the M Scaler and DAVE in my system. Since Chord uses BNC ports on the HMS and the DAVE, you can use 75Ω BNC cables for this application. But which ones? And do the same cables that work well for 10MHz clocking also work well for this application? My experience says yes. 

 

For a while, I had been running Blaxius^2 cables between my HMS and TT2. When I upgraded to the DAVE late last year, I decided to revisit my choice of cables. I tried a pair of SOtM dCBL-BNC-75, and then the WAVE STORM Reference cables. Each was a significant step up in SQ, and I was on the verge of buying the STORMs.

 

Then I talked to Roy.

 

He and I had in the past talked about using the Schroeder method, but in the context of analog interconnects. You can read about this method in the link provided, and there is an active Audiogon thread about this as well. Very briefly, this method uses 2 physical interconnects in parallel, in conjunction with Y-connectors, for a logical interconnect. You can read the thread about reported SQ gains.

 

Roy told me he was getting outstanding SQ using a Schroeder configuration for S/PDIF based on HFC CT-2 cables. A little detail about what this entails:

• 4x 1.5m HFC CT-2 S/PDIF cables, RCA-RCA. Note, 2 of these together are used per connection.
• 4x 1BNC-2RCA adapters, sourced from Steve @ Audio Sensibility
• Furutech Nano contact fluid at the Y-connectors
• JSSG360 shielding on all 4 cables.

Here's what the resultant Schroeder-CT2 cable looks like. Note - the BNC's are hidden by the black protectors in the picture.

 

 

I was able to find used CT-2's at a significant discount, but even so, these end up being a fair bit more expensive than the Habst or WAVE STORM Reference. Is there a notable increase in SQ?  

 

Heck yeah! Prior to deploying these cables, I had just gone through the steps from Blaxius^2 to SOtM to WAVE STORM. The STORM already sets a high bar, providing a spacious dynamic sound stage, tremendous density and bass slam, and more focus and coherence than the lower-priced cables. Even as standard cables, the CT-2 go a step beyond the STORM in coherence and resolution, with a dead neutral tonality.

 

What the Schroeder-CT2 reveals is there is even more refinement and coherence to be had. As hard as it was to believe, the Schroeder-CT2's brought instruments into even clearer focus than the regular CT-2, with an utterly natural tonality. 

 

One question you may have, which I certainly did, is: does the use of parallel cables change the 75Ω characteristic impedance of the resultant pair? From my very, very rusty recollection of transmission lines from my EE undergraduate days, the characteristic impedance of a cable is related to the inductance and capacitance per unit length, and is engineered to the desired value by the separation between conductors, and the material and thickness of dielectric. Just to be sure, I reached out to Rick Schutz of HFC and asked him. He confirmed, saying:

 

...the characteristic impedance is still the same, the only way to change impedance characteristic is by altering the cable by spacing the ground closer of further from signal. I think most would argue that the length of the cable would be more relevant to reflections than the characteristic impedance as reflections are time domain.

 

So why am I talking about this? It's certainly not to suggest that people go out and buy expensive cables. I suspect the Schroeder method will give improvements across the price spectrum. Has anyone tried this for S/PDIF or other digital cables? If not, this is a call to experiment and report back. I'm curious to know what people find.

[flkin]

15 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Anyone know why Pink Faun uses tin coated copper?  I know why it's used in many analog systems and am wondering if PF is using it to tame digital brightness. 

 

I've made speaker cables from the old Western Electric tin coated copper. I have pure silver speaker cables, pure copper cables and silver coated copper. I know well what each do to the sound at that point in the system. Tin coated copper will dull the sound. Dull may not be the best adjective but it's close. 

In my system I’ve tried Duelund’s tin plated copper XLR interconnects (used) and their bare speaker wires (new) in the past. Its been sometime since then but I recall my experience with them was not dull sounding but hard and unsophisticated. Rough. My set had oil baked cotton sleeves and no shielding. 
 

Perhaps the final sound depends on the dielectric? The PF versions use Teflon I’m told. Their Ultra power cords are completely different in character despite using the same tin/copper so far in the burning in stage. Right off the bat, they sound focused, detailed and offer a huge soundstage. But also hard (this changes and I’ll discuss it in my review later).
 

Another thing about the PF wires, I feel they need an extended burning in time. My PF streamer had a sudden undeniable jump in sound quality long after I purchase it for no apparent reason. I finally concluded it might have been due to burn in. So as an experiment, I’m returning to a full tin/copper loom (power, USB, interconnects and speaker) mixture of PF and Duelund cables but will do an extended burn in of all cables first using my FryBaby2 device before listening. 

[RickyV]

On 5/4/2020 at 4:02 PM, RickyV said:

About a month ago I ordered a Buffalo  BS-GS2016 switch (90 euro) so I could experiment a little more. Feeding my ER with optical or cable, buffalo first ER last etc. But first modify the buffalo switch.

 

After some investigating I learned that the switch has 3 switch mode regulators 3.3V, 1.5V and 1V. So I made the plan how to power the switch with linear power as much as possible. So I have ordered parts to build a dual rail studer900 power supply, one rail for my modem/router and one rail for the buffalo switch. I like the dual regulator concept so I try to implement as much as possible. That’s why I build a 3A ldovr stack for the 12V power. I am still waiting on the transformer so I temporarily used the original smps which outputs 12.2V to feed the ldovr stack. I also have the plan to disable the 3.3V sm regulator and feed the 3.3v also with a ldovr regulator when parts arrive, you can do that with the 1.5V and 1V too. Will also experiment with buffer capacitors for the switch mode regulators.

Sorry if this is a bit to much diy.

 

 

 

 

 

Update:

I have tried to supply my buffalo switch with three lt3045 regulators, 3.3v, 1.5v and 1v but if failed. So I disconnected the 12v and disabled the three switch mode regulators on the output side. But for some reason when connecting the 1v lt3045 the suppling 5v dropped to 0.7v. A pity the experiment didn't work. 

So I went back to supplying the switch with the 12v lt3045 stack and my now finished dual rail studer900 lps. The studer900 improved things over the temporary smps feeding the 12v regulator with less harshness and less noise, calmness.

I am now expimenting with capacitors to see where that leads.

[beautiful music]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Dual-BNC HFC CT-2 Cables - My experience with the Schroeder method

 

Several people have noticed this in my latest system diagrams and asked, and I realized I've not really talked about my current dual-BNC High Fidelity Cables CT-2 cables between the M Scaler and DAVE in my system. Since Chord uses BNC ports on the HMS and the DAVE, you can use 75Ω BNC cables for this application. But which ones? And do the same cables that work well for 10MHz clocking also work well for this application? My experience says yes. 

 

For a while, I had been running Blaxius^2 cables between my HMS and TT2. When I upgraded to the DAVE late last year, I decided to revisit my choice of cables. I tried a pair of SOtM dCBL-BNC-75, and then the WAVE STORM Reference cables. Each was a significant step up in SQ, and I was on the verge of buying the STORMs.

 

Then I talked to Roy.

 

He and I had in the past talked about using the Schroeder method, but in the context of analog interconnects. You can read about this method in the link provided, and there is an active Audiogon thread about this as well. Very briefly, this method uses 2 physical interconnects in parallel, in conjunction with Y-connectors, for a logical interconnect. You can read the thread about reported SQ gains.

 

Roy told me he was getting outstanding SQ using a Schroeder configuration for S/PDIF based on HFC CT-2 cables. A little detail about what this entails:

• 4x 1.5m HFC CT-2 S/PDIF cables, RCA-RCA. Note, 2 of these together are used per connection.
• 4x 1BNC-2RCA adapters, sourced from Steve @ Audio Sensibility
• Furutech Nano contact fluid at the Y-connectors
• JSSG360 shielding on all 4 cables.

Here's what the resultant Schroeder-CT2 cable looks like. Note - the BNC's are hidden by the black protectors in the picture.

 

 

I was able to find used CT-2's at a significant discount, but even so, these end up being a fair bit more expensive than the Habst or WAVE STORM Reference. Is there a notable increase in SQ?  

 

Heck yeah! Prior to deploying these cables, I had just gone through the steps from Blaxius^2 to SOtM to WAVE STORM. The STORM already sets a high bar, providing a spacious dynamic sound stage, tremendous density and bass slam, and more focus and coherence than the lower-priced cables. Even as standard cables, the CT-2 go a step beyond the STORM in coherence and resolution, with a dead neutral tonality.

 

What the Schroeder-CT2 reveals is there is even more refinement and coherence to be had. As hard as it was to believe, the Schroeder-CT2's brought instruments into even clearer focus than the regular CT-2, with an utterly natural tonality. 

 

One question you may have, which I certainly did, is: does the use of parallel cables change the 75Ω characteristic impedance of the resultant pair? From my very, very rusty recollection of transmission lines from my EE undergraduate days, the characteristic impedance of a cable is related to the inductance and capacitance per unit length, and is engineered to the desired value by the separation between conductors, and the material and thickness of dielectric. Just to be sure, I reached out to Rick Schutz of HFC and asked him. He confirmed, saying:

 

...the characteristic impedance is still the same, the only way to change impedance characteristic is by altering the cable by spacing the ground closer of further from signal. I think most would argue that the length of the cable would be more relevant to reflections than the characteristic impedance as reflections are time domain.

 

So why am I talking about this? It's certainly not to suggest that people go out and buy expensive cables. I suspect the Schroeder method will give improvements across the price spectrum. Has anyone tried this for S/PDIF or other digital cables? If not, this is a call to experiment and report back. I'm curious to know what people find.

 

Thank you Rajiv for bringing this Schroeder method to the light and thanks also to @romaz who advised me for this connection as well.

 

Indeed i totally agree with you there is a substantial improvement with this method and i would like to encourage others to try this method.

 

Just out of curiosity Rajiv who is made the JSSG360 for you, is this Audio Sensibility or Rick also curious why you cover the connectors with black protectors.

[austinpop]

31 minutes ago, beautiful music said:

Just out of curiosity Rajiv who is made the JSSG360 for you, is this Audio Sensibility or Rick

 

No, homemade.

 

31 minutes ago, beautiful music said:

also curious why you cover the connectors with black protectors.

 

Those were just for shipping. I took the picture with them on at the time.

[R1200CL]

5 hours ago, beautiful music said:

Indeed i totally agree with you there is a substantial improvement with this method and i would like to encourage others to try this method.

 

A new business opportunity for Gent 😀

https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/index.html

 

A newer article about schroeder method of interconnect. 

https://www.dagogo.com/audio-blast-audio-sensibility-y-cables-related-schroeder-method-interconnect-placement/

 

Maybe this Schroeder Method needs its own thread ?

I haven’t understand yet why he advises not to use on class D amps. Can anyone explain?

(I have Theta monoblocks). 

[bit01]

Anyone heard from Ghent lately? Hope all is well with him (he has not responded to my inquiry for quite a while).

 

More than 20 yrs? ago I had a DAC (ARC DAC3) hooked up to a CD player (Revox 126). The setup was sensitive to the 'digital' cables  i tried. I ended up liking two of them for different reasons. Curiosity more than reason led me to try and combine them- and sure enough I liked the result. I remember thinking, it shouldn't be - but it was. I used something like these connectors to combine the two:

 

[Nenon]

7 hours ago, austinpop said:

Furutech Nano contact fluid at the Y-connectors

If you get a chance try the walker audio silver paste. I have both and don’t use the nano liquid from furutech anymore. 
 

Thanks for sharing your double cable method. 

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, bit01 said:

Anyone heard from Ghent lately? Hope all is well with him (he has not responded to my inquiry for quite a while).

 

More than 20 yrs? ago I had a DAC (ARC DAC3) hooked up to a CD player (Revox 126). The setup was sensitive to the 'digital' cables  i tried. I ended up liking two of them for different reasons. Curiosity more than reason led me to try and combine them- and sure enough I liked the result. I remember thinking, it shouldn't be - but it was. I used something like these connectors to combine the two:

 

Hi, this does seem the easiest solution. Where do you get them from?

 

[lwr]

59 minutes ago, bit01 said:

Anyone heard from Ghent lately? Hope all is well with him (he has not responded to my inquiry for quite a while).

 

More than 20 yrs? ago I had a DAC (ARC DAC3) hooked up to a CD player (Revox 126). The setup was sensitive to the 'digital' cables  i tried. I ended up liking two of them for different reasons. Curiosity more than reason led me to try and combine them- and sure enough I liked the result. I remember thinking, it shouldn't be - but it was. I used something like these connectors to combine the two:

 

I haven't been able to get in touch with GhentAudio lately either.  Does anybody have any news?  I too hope all is well with him.

[nonesup]

20 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Farad likes tinned copper, which is no surprise given it's an offshoot of Pink Faun.  Mattijs insists it sounds better in a DC cable as compared to silver.  I think the Audio Sensibility Signature Silver DC cable is far better, and I am not alone in that regard.

I have two FaradSuper3. When I bought the first one,
I did the test between the two Level2 models: the Copper one and the Silver one. Silver for me is superior.

[RickyV]

@auricgoldfinger, @Nenon what’s the capacitance of the capacitor (bank) in the Melco switch? I would like to try that kind of voicing too. Thanks 🙏 

[Nenon]

20 minutes ago, RickyV said:

@auricgoldfinger, @Nenon what’s the capacitance of the capacitor (bank) in the Melco switch? I would like to try that kind of voicing too. Thanks 🙏 

6 x 2200 uF + 1 x 2.2 uF + 1 x 1 uF.

Check your PM. 

[str-1]

4 hours ago, lwr said:

I haven't been able to get in touch with GhentAudio lately either.  Does anybody have any news?  I too hope all is well with him.

I just received some cables from Ghent following a few exchanges to discuss my requirements.  Replies were just as quick and helpful as they’ve always been.  Ordered cables 31st May with express delivery, told they were dispatched last Friday, delivered to me in London 11am Monday morning.

[lwr]

4 minutes ago, str-1 said:

I just received some cables from Ghent following a few exchanges to discuss my requirements.  Replies were just as quick and helpful as they’ve always been.  Ordered cables 31st May with express delivery, told they were dispatched last Friday, delivered to me in London 11am Monday morning.

I placed an order May 8 and haven’t heard anything from them ever since.  I have emailed requests for tracking information but have not gotten any reply whatsoever.  I have made many purchases from them and recommend them to friends, and everything has always gone smoothy before, including special orders for combinations of connectors and cables not shown on their website.

[kennyb123]

4 hours ago, nonesup said:

I have two FaradSuper3. When I bought the first one,
I did the test between the two Level2 models: the Copper one and the Silver one. Silver for me is superior.

 

@auricgoldfinger reached out to recommend the Audio Sensibility Signature Silver cable as a way to get the best from my Farad supplies.  When used in place of the Farad copper Level 2 powering my TT2, clear improvements in transient speed, clarity and depth/staging can be heard. Bass (and especially acoustic bass) is better articulated with strings energizing the air more like the real instrument.  No loss of warmth either relative to copper, which was a surprise.  

 

The improved transient speed was the most welcome of the improvements as dynamics and micro-dynamics are what bring music to life for me.  The improved speed is especially evident in voices where inflections are better conveying the singer's intent.  The Farad supplies themselves brought improvements in this area but the AS cable makes it even more apparent and more naturally-conveyed.

 

Switching the AS cable over to the HMS (while placing the Level 2 copper back on the TT2), the improvements didn't seem to be as evident.  Seems that the DC cable powering the TT2 may have more of an influence on the overall sound.  Has anyone else found that to be the case?  Buying a second one of these is definitely on my list though.  

 

Thanks to Brian for the recommendation and also to @austinpop for his earlier positive comments about these cables.

[Exocer]

On 6/8/2020 at 3:11 PM, seeteeyou said:

Both Juniper SRX300 and revision C1 of D-Link DGS-1210 series are sharing the same BCM53343 (Broadcom Hurricane 2 SoC) inside Buffalo / Melco

 

Wondering if anyone has compared these options to the mighty BS-GS2016. 

[auricgoldfinger]

2 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

@auricgoldfinger reached out to recommend the Audio Sensibility Signature Silver cable as a way to get the best from my Farad supplies.  When used in place of the Farad copper Level 2 powering my TT2, clear improvements in transient speed, clarity and depth/staging can be heard. Bass (and especially acoustic bass) is better articulated with strings energizing the air more like the real instrument.  No loss of warmth either relative to copper, which was a surprise.  

 

The improved transient speed was the most welcome of the improvements as dynamics and micro-dynamics are what bring music to life for me.  The improved speed is especially evident in voices where inflections are better conveying the singer's intent.  The Farad supplies themselves brought improvements in this area but the AS cable makes it even more apparent and more naturally-conveyed.

 

Switching the AS cable over to the HMS (while placing the Level 2 copper back on the TT2), the improvements didn't seem to be as evident.  Seems that the DC cable powering the TT2 may have more of an influence on the overall sound.  Has anyone else found that to be the case?  Buying a second one of these is definitely on my list though.  

 

Thanks to Brian for the recommendation and also to @austinpop for his earlier positive comments about these cables.

 

Do you have the same make and model of power cord powering both Farads?

 

BTW, if you're inclined, giving the cables a JSSG360 treatment will enhance them even further.

[kennyb123]

15 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Do you have the same make and model of power cord powering both Farads?

 

Yes I do.  

 

The zones into which they are plugged on my Denali v1 differ though.  The Farad powering the TT2 is plugged into the high current zone usually meant for amplifiers.  The Farad powering the HMS is plugged into one of the two of the regular zones that don't feature Shunyata's QR/BB technology. I figured that since the TT2 is also acting as my preamp that I should give it the HC zone.

 

Shunyata describes QR/BB as "a patented device which dramatically enhances the perception of dynamic impact and timing when connected to amplifiers or other high-current electronics. The ‌‌QR/BB™ is unique in that it provides a local reserve of energy, or Coulomb charge, that mitigates the inductive reactance of the AC power line without using coils, transformers or capacitors. The ‌‌QR/BB™ acts as an instantaneous energy reserve when placed in-line with an AC power supply."

 

On the Denali v2, all of the zones feature QR/BB.

 

15 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

BTW, if you're inclined, giving the cables a JSSG360 treatment will enhance them even further.

 

Good to know.  I will give that a try at some point.  I've yet to do this myself, but I think it'll be worth finally figuring out how to do this.

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

@auricgoldfinger reached out to recommend the Audio Sensibility Signature Silver cable as a way to get the best from my Farad supplies.  When used in place of the Farad copper Level 2 powering my TT2, clear improvements in transient speed, clarity and depth/staging can be heard. Bass (and especially acoustic bass) is better articulated with strings energizing the air more like the real instrument.  No loss of warmth either relative to copper, which was a surprise.  

 

The improved transient speed was the most welcome of the improvements as dynamics and micro-dynamics are what bring music to life for me.  The improved speed is especially evident in voices where inflections are better conveying the singer's intent.  The Farad supplies themselves brought improvements in this area but the AS cable makes it even more apparent and more naturally-conveyed.

 

Switching the AS cable over to the HMS (while placing the Level 2 copper back on the TT2), the improvements didn't seem to be as evident.  Seems that the DC cable powering the TT2 may have more of an influence on the overall sound.  Has anyone else found that to be the case?  Buying a second one of these is definitely on my list though.  

 

Thanks to Brian for the recommendation and also to @austinpop for his earlier positive comments about these cables.

 

I don't want to sound like a broken record but given there are 665 pages here, I will mention it one more time. 

If you can, please try the DIY Mundorf silver/gold cable recipe I posted if you haven't (more info here). They are the best DC cables I have heard, by far. Quite a few people made them and the feedback has been exceptional. Some of them already had the Audio Sensibility Signature Silver cable but preferred the Mundorf cable. I have wired EVERYTHING DC in my system with these cables.