A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Aberrant-Decoder]

I just wondered if anyone had tried this passive cooling widget ?

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/nofan-copper-icepipe-cpu-cooler-80w-fanless-for-all-intel-and-amd-cpus

 

[Peter Avgeris]

59 minutes ago, RickyV said:

 

Mmmm wouldn't a pure copper and gold plated IEC inlet be better than a 50 cent one?

The 50 cent ones are usually brass. 

Yes! Of course.

But all the pure copper AC inlets seem to be in conflict with the parameter #2 of the same text. And cryo makes sooo bad...

[bodiebill]

1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

Hi there,

I recently implemented 4 of Nenon’s Mundorf Silver/Gold cables and while they do need running in, they did improve the SQ pretty much immediately and harshness certainly wasn’t one of their characteristics, at least not in my system. 

 

I’ve never tried making the changes you list but I would ‘suspect’ that something like harshness could come from placing the HDPlex directly on top of a power supply, with its intrinsic vibration and transformer electrical field.

 

Certainly before altering the cable you made i would first try relocating the HDPlex                           

 

The cables also need longer than a week so if the need to run in is the cause of the harshness, its going to need maybe 3 weeks to fully resolve

 

Thanks Blackmorec. The HDPlex is not on top of the Streacom case but next to it, on top of the SR4 (with bluetack between and vibrapods under the SR4). You can see it in a pic earlier in this thread.

I will not judge to soon, but will also keep @Peter Avgeris findings in mind...

[Peter Avgeris]

Hi guys.

I owe you something here.

Today my Buffalo BS-GS2008 switches arrived. I took one of them and disassembled it.

I took a pic of the chipset. Here it is.

Nenon should reply here...

 

[Gavin1977]

On 6/11/2020 at 4:56 PM, seeteeyou said:

 

 

---

 

 

Very interesting post on Dual CAT POE @seeteeyou - I enjoyed it.  It's quite old though.  So where is the current state of play, or is it worth bypassing this and going straight to a Sablon Ethernet - 2020 model which is one item you referenced in the link (and austinpop is using).

 

I also like the fact that it gives some reasoning as to why CAT8 cabling sounds better... so I might well use that with the TELEGARTNER MFP8 CAT.8.1 for longer runs.

[RickyV]

5 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said:

Hi guys.

I owe you something here.

Today my Buffalo BS-GS2008 switches have arrived. I took one of them and disassembled it.

I took a pic of the chipset. Here it is.

Nenon should reply here...

 

Buffalo bs-gs2016

 

close enough I think.

[Gavin1977]

By the way, if others would like to gently/politely request a 12v version of this ultracap conditioner by Ian Canada on DIY Audio that'd be great.  He's just launched the 5v and 3.3v versions, so only the 12v version missing to have a great way of conditioning ATX power supplies.

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/327105-develop-ultra-capacitor-power-supply-lifepo4-battery-power-supply-post6216601.htm

 

Love his work.

[Peter Avgeris]

So they are the same series chips, one is for 16GE and other is for 8GE networks, as the page on Mouser designates.

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, Peter Avgeris said:

I would just like to add my two cents here...

 

Please do not consider my writings as an offense but as a starting point for further experimentation and critical thought. I need to double-underline this, as I have no intention to 'treat' one's mind or to persuade anybody in favor of my thoughts.

 

I have been in the audio cables business for several years as manufacturer of audio cables. Together with my partner we had made in depth analysis and theoretical approach to the plethora of the phenomena that impact sound waves transmission through conductive material. Both lab measurements and theoretical models of transmission.

 

After having spent more than 100k Euros in this arena, two things I would like to focus on:

 

1. Don't lose your valuable time and money searching for silver conductors. All silver conductors, regardless of structure, treatments, mixture with other metals, etc, sound *worse* than copper conductors but please be careful: all other parameters being equal. When you compare silver vs copper with all the parameters of A-B comparison being identical (diameter, insulation, tempering, crystalline structure, etc), copper *ALWAYS* wins and silver always loses. This of course means that you may experience a silver cable performing better than a copper cable but when you examine the conductors under identical denominators, then copper always wins.

 

2. Don't spend a cent for cryogenicaly treated parts and accessories. They are so bad for audio. They take out the soul and magic of music. I'm a mechanical engineer as you know, with gathered experience in this field for aprox. 20 years now. Cryogenic treatment does exactly the opposite of what we are looking for, in audio reproduction. Several guys here know who I am. For those that don't, I need to write that I manufacture audio reproduction components where cost is not considered an obstacle. In my components, a single cryo treated item or part or whatever is enough to destroy their flavor and their signature. I have evaluated each and every component in the past and under no circumstances I accept to install cryo treated parts, even if this is a custom order or even if this has the impact of cancelling the order. In my amplifiers I am using an IEC socket that costs around 50 cents of a dollar only for the reason that it sounds best among all. I hope that this might sound as something strange to your ears. It's true. 100% true.

 

The debate copper vs silver has a long history. Please don't start over another debate here. After having spent so much in research and manufacture in the field, with this notice I would just like to declare my findings so as you benefit. I know that the vast majority here will not take my comments into account, they won't have a second thought because they also have their own judgements. My intention is that the few that anticipate life through a thoughtful approach, now have a hint to think over their own findings and judgements once more. Under a critical thought and point of view only!

 

Ugh, absolute and generalizing statements using the word "ALWAYS" in caps in audio? A little disappointing to see someone with your level of experience doing that. There are only two ways to accomplish that:

1. Discover all the measurements aspects of audio reproduction and come up with new measuring devices that can measure everything that we can't measure and explain today (i.e. things like PRAT for example). 

2. Test every cable on every system and every possible combination. 

#2 is impossible. You would probably be a nobel prize winner if you did #1. So, I would assume you haven't done #1 either. 

 

In that case, let's focus on our experience in the limited tests we have done. You like copper wire. Fine. Nothing wrong with that. 

I prefer copper wire over most silver wires I have tried. In fact, let's stick to what this thread is about and share our experience. Here is mine.

 

Analog signal:

I have tested over 15 different silver wires for the analog signal in my system (i.e. interconnects, speaker wire, hookup wire). Most of them sounded bright and lean, and sometimes harsh. Also, most of them sounded worse in my system than copper. For example, the relatively inexpensive Duelund 20awg (DCA20GA) Tin Plate Copper Hookup Wire at less than $6 per meter (after a long burn-in process) sounded better than most silver wires.  

From all the silver wires I have tried, there was only one that I liked. It was a 24 AWG silver wire made by a boutique audio company in Europe. That wire sounded significantly better than any other wires I have tried, copper or silver. It was better in every aspect by a huge margin.

And one more thing before I move on - bad silver wire on big horn speakers (!) - you may want to scream and run away. I have a feeling (or maybe read it) that @Peter Avgeris is a horn guy. That could be a really bad combination. 

 

Digital DC wire:

The context in this thread is DC cables that connect the output of a linear power supply to a digital component (i.e. computer, switch, USB reclocker, streamer, etc.). I believe I have tried every wire mentioned on those 669 pages, although given how big this thread became, it is not impossible that I missed something. To mention a few - Neotech 7N copper, Gotham, Canare, Mogami, Belden, VhAudio, Duelund, and several more. 

 

The Mundorf silver/gold wire, which as the name implies is not a pure silver wire, is by far the best wire I have heard in that application. I would not use this wire for audio interconnects or speaker cables. But for DC cables it is a significant upgrade to any system. This wire is expensive. Here is a cost breakdown for a 3-foot cable:

- 6-feet of wire (what you need for a 3-foot cable) in the US is about $250

https://www.partsconnexion.com/MUNDORF-72180.html#40543

Since Mundorf is a German company, some people in Europe might be able to find it cheaper locally, but those are the US prices. 

- Two Oyaide DC Connectors would be around $50. 

https://www.vhaudio.com/oyaide-dc.html

- Everything else including cotton sleeves, techflex, heatshrink, WBT silver solder, teflon tape, copper braid, etc would be around $25. And if you get those parts from different places and pay multiple shipping fees, the amount grows up pretty quickly. 

- It takes about an hour (maybe a little more) to make one cable, properly dress it, and test it. I guess "your time is free for you" principle applies here. 

Adjust as necessary, add those things up, and do the math. This is not a cheap cable. But if it was sold by one of the big cable makers, it would cost many times the cost if its materials. So, if you think that way, it is actually an incredible value compared to commercial cables. The downside is you have to do it yourself. Or find someone to do it for you. 

 

The reason I am providing a cost breakdown is to make it clear who this cable is for. I would not suggest that people with a $200 LPS start making this cable. I believe it is silly to spend more on the cable than the component. You would be much  better changing the component first. Although, for some reason this cable makes a pretty significant difference even with cheaper power supplies if your system is resolving enough. 

 

I have received/seen feedback from about 20 people who have made this cable. And I have made it for 5 or 6 people. It has been "Wow" every single time - pretty huge improvement in every area. 

 

@bodiebill is the first person reporting negative effect of this cable. If I recall correctly (sorry, did not go back to search and double check), @bodiebill was open minded on a few other findings by me and the community here related to power supplies, operating systems, one server vs. two, etc. And if my memory serves me right, he did not like any of my recommendations about Euphony, power supplies placement, etc. But that's a good data point anyway. 
BTW, from the pictures I've seen, @bodiebill - you are using some cheap solderless screw-on DC connectors. This expensive Mundorf silver/gold deserves some good Oyaide connectors. Given that even the solder used makes a little difference in the cables I make for myself, I can only imagine how bad those connectors are. But I am not saying that's the reason why Mundorf wire does not sound good in your system. I have no idea why it does not work well. We just have to accept that as a fact and as a data point.

[Blackmorec]

2 hours ago, bodiebill said:

 

Thanks Blackmorec. The HDPlex is not on top of the Streacom case but next to it, on top of the SR4 (with bluetack between and vibrapods under the SR4). You can see it in a pic earlier in this thread.

I will not judge to soon, but will also keep @Peter Avgeris findings in mind...

Hi there,

My first recommendation would be to try everything without the vibrapods and blu tack. Vibrapods will isolate the SR4 and lock in its vibrations, while the Blu Tack will couple the HDPlex to the SR4’s vibrations.

My second recommendation would be to remove the HDPLex from atop the SR4 because, as I stated in my previous 2 messages, the HDPLex will be plumb in the middle of the SR4 transformer’s electrical field.

Finally, the JSSG360 screening is designed to prevent the cable from picking up radiated EMI and RFI while the HDPlex in its current position is completely unprotected. Personally I would place the HDPLex back in the Streacom cabinet, where it enjoys a degree of protection and isolation from the SR4’s vibration  

[sunny_time_99]

4 hours ago, Peter Avgeris said:

I would just like to add my two cents here...

 

Please do not consider my writings as an offense but as a starting point for further experimentation and critical thought. I need to double-underline this, as I have no intention to 'treat' one's mind or to persuade anybody in favor of my thoughts.

 

I have been in the audio cables business for several years as manufacturer of audio cables. Together with my partner we had made in depth analysis and theoretical approach to the plethora of the phenomena that impact sound waves transmission through conductive material. Both lab measurements and theoretical models of transmission.

 

After having spent more than 100k Euros in this arena, two things I would like to focus on:

 

1. Don't lose your valuable time and money searching for silver conductors. All silver conductors, regardless of structure, treatments, mixture with other metals, etc, sound *worse* than copper conductors but please be careful: all other parameters being equal. When you compare silver vs copper with all the parameters of A-B comparison being identical (diameter, insulation, tempering, crystalline structure, etc), copper *ALWAYS* wins and silver always loses. This of course means that you may experience a silver cable performing better than a copper cable but when you examine the conductors under identical denominators, then copper always wins.

 

2. Don't spend a cent for cryogenicaly treated parts and accessories. They are so bad for audio. They take out the soul and magic of music. I'm a mechanical engineer as you know, with gathered experience in this field for aprox. 20 years now. Cryogenic treatment does exactly the opposite of what we are looking for, in audio reproduction. Several guys here know who I am. For those that don't, I need to write that I manufacture audio reproduction components where cost is not considered an obstacle. In my components, a single cryo treated item or part or whatever is enough to destroy their flavor and their signature. I have evaluated each and every component in the past and under no circumstances I accept to install cryo treated parts, even if this is a custom order or even if this has the impact of cancelling the order. In my amplifiers I am using an IEC socket that costs around 50 cents of a dollar only for the reason that it sounds best among all. I hope that this might sound as something strange to your ears. It's true. 100% true.

 

The debate copper vs silver has a long history. Please don't start over another debate here. After having spent so much in research and manufacture in the field, with this notice I would just like to declare my findings so as you benefit. I know that the vast majority here will not take my comments into account, they won't have a second thought because they also have their own judgements. My intention is that the few that anticipate life through a thoughtful approach, now have a hint to think over their own findings and judgements once more. Under a critical thought and point of view only!

Thank you Peter,

I agree 100% with you. I've been doing this hobby for over 30 years and I've spent 25 of them swapping cables. For beeing my hobby, i build several hundred cabled during the last years. Connectors, Solder, Shielding, Material... i checked that all. Today I can say with a clear conscience that the big gamechanging differences do not come from the cables.

If a cable makes a big difference, another part of the sytem - a bottleneck - is usually responsible. I tried silver from different manufacturers in different places and sometimes used it for years. Sure, the silver does something. But is silver a neutral sounding material? No! And sooner or later it becomes a problem. I brought my entire chain back to copper (duelund tinned copper) comming from Neotech and Siltech Silver. The music is back - because the silver is simply not neutral. Often i could read in different threads, Duelund or copper sounds dull.

With today's wealth of experience, I can say the reason was never the cable. The problems were always in different parts. The majority in the power supply. I always find it quite amusing, that if you start with DIY power supplies, you are asked discreetly in side areas of the forum - cable discussions are generally classified and accepted higher. The power supply makes the music.

 

Today I simply use good copper in all constructions and preferably duelund tinned copper and luckily I don't get the idea to see this place as a Problem.

 

happy listening

 

Sunny

[bodiebill]

1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

Hi there,

My first recommendation would be to try everything without the vibrapods and blu tack. Vibrapods will isolate the SR4 and lock in its vibrations, while the Blu Tack will couple the HDPlex to the SR4’s vibrations.

My second recommendation would be to remove the HDPLex from atop the SR4 because, as I stated in my previous 2 messages, the HDPLex will be plumb in the middle of the SR4 transformer’s electrical field.

Finally, the JSSG360 screening is designed to prevent the cable from picking up radiated EMI and RFI while the HDPlex in its current position is completely unprotected. Personally I would place the HDPLex back in the Streacom cabinet, where it enjoys a degree of protection and isolation from the SR4’s vibration  

 

Thanks, appreciated! I will change the positioning of the devices and report back.

 

  

2 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

@bodiebill is the first person reporting negative effect of this cable. If I recall correctly (sorry, did not go back to search and double check), @bodiebill was open minded on a few other findings by me and the community here related to power supplies, operating systems, one server vs. two, etc. And if my memory serves me right, he did not like any of my recommendations about Euphony, power supplies placement, etc. But that's a good data point anyway. 

 

hi Nenon, I was not aware of any bias with respect to your recommendations other than positive. Or I would not have DIY'ed your expensive and labor intensive Mundorf recipe. And I am still far from a final judgment. I will give it ample time (3 weeks), and follow @Blackmorec's recommendations. I don't see myself as a very technical person, but rather as a clumsy person with good ears, who will continue to follow your experiments with great interest.

 

Quote

BTW, from the pictures I've seen, @bodiebill - you are using some cheap solderless screw-on DC connectors. This expensive Mundorf silver/gold deserves some good Oyaide connectors.

 

The only solderless connection is that to the Chinese LT3045 battery device that powers the usb card. For that I see no other way (given my reluctance to tamper with the device). The other connections are soldered, on the SR4 end to a good quality Neutrik XLR plug, and for the HDPlex and motherboard to the mandatory 6 pin DC input connector resp. the 2 (or 4) pin ESP/CPU connector. I do not see how I could apply Oyaide DC connectors here other than adding to the problem.

[kennyb123]

5 hours ago, Peter Avgeris said:

1. Don't lose your valuable time and money searching for silver conductors. All silver conductors, regardless of structure, treatments, mixture with other metals, etc, sound *worse* than copper conductors but please be careful: all other parameters being equal. When you compare silver vs copper with all the parameters of A-B comparison being identical (diameter, insulation, tempering, crystalline structure, etc), copper *ALWAYS* wins and silver always loses. This of course means that you may experience a silver cable performing better than a copper cable but when you examine the conductors under identical denominators, then copper always wins.

 

 

Can you expound upon "sound worse"?  And can you explain why this might be the case?  You mention that you have done "in depth analysis and theoretical approach to the plethora of the phenomena that impact sound waves transmission through conductive material. Both lab measurements and theoretical models of transmission" and yet the paragraph I've quoted above comes off as purely subjective.  

[austinpop]

 

3 hours ago, Nenon said:

Ugh, absolute and generalizing statements using the word "ALWAYS" in caps in audio?

 

Thanks @Nenon for stepping in... I get tired of moderating this thread sometimes!

 

5 hours ago, Peter Avgeris said:

I would just like to add my two cents here...

 

Please do not consider my writings as an offense but as a starting point for further experimentation and critical thought. I need to double-underline this, as I have no intention to 'treat' one's mind or to persuade anybody in favor of my thoughts.

 

1 hour ago, sunny_time_99 said:

Thank you Peter,

I agree 100% with you. I've been doing this hobby for over 30 years and I've spent 25 of them swapping cables. For beeing my hobby, i build several hundred cabled during the last years. Connectors, Solder, Shielding, Material... i checked that all. Today I can say with a clear conscience that the big gamechanging differences do not come from the cables.

 

Hello Peter, Hello Sunny,

 

You will not find much traction in this thread by coming in and making sweeping generalizations. I urge you to read the posting guidelines, and the index in the first post of the thread.

 

Had you searched back, you would have found that many of us had also approached the idea of using silver in digital and DC cables with skepticism, having experienced the brightness from using analog cables. It was only from direct experience that we found what we did.

 

This is why sweeping generalizations are pointless here. This thread is for, and populated by, people who want to try things for themselves, and are open to hearing others' experiences. And this means specific experiments, not "over 30 years."

[alecm]

4 hours ago, Peter Avgeris said:

 

Today my Buffalo BS-GS2008 switches arrived. I took one of them and disassembled it.

I took a pic of the chipset. Here it is.

 

 

 

 

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, Peter Avgeris said:

Today my Buffalo BS-GS2008 switches arrived. I took one of them and disassembled it.

I took a pic of the chipset. Here it is.

 

Yes, same series, but the magnetics are rather different. 

And it would be helpful to see some part numbers of the DC-DC switching converters and following voltage regulators to get a better sense of the power networks.

[MagnusH]

Found this on the web, so yes the Y1 should be a 25Mhz oscillator (but have seen X or XO also used):

[RickyV]

31 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Yes, same series, but the magnetics are rather different. 

And it would be helpful to see some part numbers of the DC-DC switching converters and following voltage regulators to get a better sense of the power networks.

This for the bs-gs2016 switch.
The part number of the 1V switch mode  control circuit is MPGF 8632.

 

Given up on the idea of powering it with lt3045’s to difficult maybe I’ll still do the 3.3 , 1.5v and keep the 12v lt3045 to power only for the 1v smreg.

[blueninjasix]

7 hours ago, Aberrant-Decoder said:

I just wondered if anyone had tried this passive cooling widget ?

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/nofan-copper-icepipe-cpu-cooler-80w-fanless-for-all-intel-and-amd-cpus

 

I use this cooler on an i5-7600 in this case https://www.techspot.com/review/428-silverstone-fortress-ft03/

Works perfectly with no fans

[Peter Avgeris]

Hi again. 

What I would like to state with my writing regarding copper vs silver is far away from trying to persuade somebody to follow my path. This is the reason I tried to make it as clear as I can. Follow your ears, follow your instict but try to be open and thoughtful, nothing else. 

Regarding copper & silver, I am not referring to third party products. I am referring to designing and manufacturing the cables from scratch in specialized laboratory, with specialized equipment under very strict and controlled conditions. The cables were not extruded but casted continuously through custom designed carbon nozzles with temp gradient of around 1 deg C above and below solidification temperature. The average crystal length was around 400 meters in both cases. No dielectrics, no insulation. Bare conductors. This was the last judgement of copper vs silver. The theoretical results came in line with findings through listening tests. 

This is my final statement here regarding copper vs silver. I have no intention to dig deeper, just to pass on my own findings to you. We live in a free world where everybody is free to do whatever he wants! 

 

Regarding the dc-dc converters, I am unable to read the part numbers as it is impossible to read the letters. A friend has an iPhone with pro lenses, I will call him tomorrow for further assistance with pictures. 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, RickyV said:

This for the bs-gs2016 switch.
The part number of the 1V switch mode  control circuit is MPGF 8632.

 

So that is a Monolithic Power Systems MPQ8632 synchronous buck converter. That series uses the same 3x4mm QFN package for all models from 4A to 12A. Based on the value of the inductor next to it, that one is either the 4A or 6A version.  

 

14 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said:

Regarding the dc-dc converters, I am unable to read the part numbers as it is impossible to read the letters. A friend has an iPhone with pro lenses, I will call him tomorrow for further assistance with pictures. 

 

Don't worry about it Peter, at least one of them has been read above.

 

BTW, seems your web site (exoticaudiodesign.com) is down. I hope China is not blocking access to Hong Kong sites now. 

 

Cheers,

--Alex C.

[Peter Avgeris]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

So that is a Monolithic Power Systems MPQ8632 synchronous buck converter. That series uses the same 3x4mm QFN package for all models from 4A to 12A. Based on the value of the inductor next to it, that one is either the 4A or 6A version.  

 

 

Don't worry about it Peter, at least one of them has been read above.

 

BTW, seems your web site (exoticaudiodesign.com) is down. I hope China is not blocking access to Hong Kong sites now. 

 

Cheers,

--Alex C.

Hello Alex. 

The website is not down due to China's control in HK. It is going to be completely redesigned with all models and series. 

[Superdad]

13 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said:

The website is not down due to China's control in HK. It is going to be completely redesigned with all models and series. 

 

My eyes certainly popped out when I saw the size and complexity of your phono preamp.

 

 

Thats a LOT of wire and magnetics for just a PHONO PREAMP! 

Very impressive...

[Bricki]

8 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

Ugh, absolute and generalizing statements using the word "ALWAYS" in caps in audio? A little disappointing to see someone with your level of experience doing that. There are only two ways to accomplish that:

1. Discover all the measurements aspects of audio reproduction and come up with new measuring devices that can measure everything that we can't measure and explain today (i.e. things like PRAT for example). 

2. Test every cable on every system and every possible combination. 

#2 is impossible. You would probably be a nobel prize winner if you did #1. So, I would assume you haven't done #1 either. 

 

In that case, let's focus on our experience in the limited tests we have done. You like copper wire. Fine. Nothing wrong with that. 

I prefer copper wire over most silver wires I have tried. In fact, let's stick to what this thread is about and share our experience. Here is mine.

 

Analog signal:

I have tested over 15 different silver wires for the analog signal in my system (i.e. interconnects, speaker wire, hookup wire). Most of them sounded bright and lean, and sometimes harsh. Also, most of them sounded worse in my system than copper. For example, the relatively inexpensive Duelund 20awg (DCA20GA) Tin Plate Copper Hookup Wire at less than $6 per meter (after a long burn-in process) sounded better than most silver wires.  

From all the silver wires I have tried, there was only one that I liked. It was a 24 AWG silver wire made by a boutique audio company in Europe. That wire sounded significantly better than any other wires I have tried, copper or silver. It was better in every aspect by a huge margin.

And one more thing before I move on - bad silver wire on big horn speakers (!) - you may want to scream and run away. I have a feeling (or maybe read it) that @Peter Avgeris is a horn guy. That could be a really bad combination. 

 

Digital DC wire:

The context in this thread is DC cables that connect the output of a linear power supply to a digital component (i.e. computer, switch, USB reclocker, streamer, etc.). I believe I have tried every wire mentioned on those 669 pages, although given how big this thread became, it is not impossible that I missed something. To mention a few - Neotech 7N copper, Gotham, Canare, Mogami, Belden, VhAudio, Duelund, and several more. 

 

The Mundorf silver/gold wire, which as the name implies is not a pure silver wire, is by far the best wire I have heard in that application. I would not use this wire for audio interconnects or speaker cables. But for DC cables it is a significant upgrade to any system. This wire is expensive. Here is a cost breakdown for a 3-foot cable:

- 6-feet of wire (what you need for a 3-foot cable) in the US is about $250

https://www.partsconnexion.com/MUNDORF-72180.html#40543

Since Mundorf is a German company, some people in Europe might be able to find it cheaper locally, but those are the US prices. 

- Two Oyaide DC Connectors would be around $50. 

https://www.vhaudio.com/oyaide-dc.html

- Everything else including cotton sleeves, techflex, heatshrink, WBT silver solder, teflon tape, copper braid, etc would be around $25. And if you get those parts from different places and pay multiple shipping fees, the amount grows up pretty quickly. 

- It takes about an hour (maybe a little more) to make one cable, properly dress it, and test it. I guess "your time is free for you" principle applies here. 

Adjust as necessary, add those things up, and do the math. This is not a cheap cable. But if it was sold by one of the big cable makers, it would cost many times the cost if its materials. So, if you think that way, it is actually an incredible value compared to commercial cables. The downside is you have to do it yourself. Or find someone to do it for you. 

 

The reason I am providing a cost breakdown is to make it clear who this cable is for. I would not suggest that people with a $200 LPS start making this cable. I believe it is silly to spend more on the cable than the component. You would be much  better changing the component first. Although, for some reason this cable makes a pretty significant difference even with cheaper power supplies if your system is resolving enough. 

 

I have received/seen feedback from about 20 people who have made this cable. And I have made it for 5 or 6 people. It has been "Wow" every single time - pretty huge improvement in every area. 

 

@bodiebill is the first person reporting negative effect of this cable. If I recall correctly (sorry, did not go back to search and double check), @bodiebill was open minded on a few other findings by me and the community here related to power supplies, operating systems, one server vs. two, etc. And if my memory serves me right, he did not like any of my recommendations about Euphony, power supplies placement, etc. But that's a good data point anyway. 
BTW, from the pictures I've seen, @bodiebill - you are using some cheap solderless screw-on DC connectors. This expensive Mundorf silver/gold deserves some good Oyaide connectors. Given that even the solder used makes a little difference in the cables I make for myself, I can only imagine how bad those connectors are. But I am not saying that's the reason why Mundorf wire does not sound good in your system. I have no idea why it does not work well. We just have to accept that as a fact and as a data point.

I just wanted to ask you about the WBT solder

 

Is it the best solder you've used (sound wise) for all applications? Best for DC cables as well as analogue interconnects?

 

Is it easy to work with? Any harder to work with than normal solder?

 

My soldering experience is a bit narrow and I could do with a few pointers🤣

 

Do you use a temperature controlled iron? What wattage iron would be best for this solder if not using temp controlled iron? 25W? 40W?

 

I think the melting point of this solder is around 270 degrees celsius... So for temp controlled iron should we be aiming much higher than that? 

 

Sorry if these seem like basic questions. The only soldering I've done before has been with cheaper materials... Now that I'm using oyaid DC barrels etc I don't want to make a mistake... I'm about to buy a new iron because I can't find my old one in my tool box 🤣

[Nenon]

4 minutes ago, Bricki said:

I just wanted to ask you about the WBT solder

 

Is it the best solder you've used (sound wise) for all applications? Best for DC cables as well as analogue interconnects?

 

Is it easy to work with? Any harder to work with than normal solder?

 

My soldering experience is a bit narrow and I could do with a few pointers🤣

 

Do you use a temperature controlled iron? What wattage iron would be best for this solder if not using temp controlled iron? 25W? 40W?

 

I think the melting point of this solder is around 270 degrees celsius... So for temp controlled iron should we be aiming much higher than that? 

 

Sorry if these seem like basic questions. The only soldering I've done before has been with cheaper materials... Now that I'm using oyaid DC barrels etc I don't want to make a mistake... I'm about to buy a new iron because I can't find my old one in my tool box 🤣

 

The WBT is really good (for anything audio, analog, digital, etc.) and super easy to work with. You can probably find a cheaper version of the same quality without the brand name, but I use WBT to be on the safe side. 

This is a really good choice too - https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B00ANZRT4M/. You will have to find the best temp for you, but 700-750F would be a good starting point. Good luck with your project. Glad to see more people taking this initiative.