UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[sandston]

With all the positive reviews pouring in for the Etherregen I have taken the plunge and have placed my order. With the ER I am looking to finally update my network / digital front end and am looking for some advice from users on the best upgrade path.

 

I currently own a first gen Microrendu fed by a pair of TPLink optical modules. I also own two LPS 1.2 Supercap power supplies. I have read and reread the forums along with the comments from Uptone and Sonore regarding their products regarding best implementation practices and I am trying to decide on upgrading to the Ultra or the Optical Rendu. Does the addition of the Etherregen  appear to negate the need for optical isolation making the added cost of the Opticalrendu a worthwhile improvement in sound quality. I understand that this is very subjective but I would love to hear peoples opinions of the two front end chains. Can anyone speak to the MOAT created by the ER negating the need for the optical isolation? Aside from the addition on the optical module to the OR are the OR and the UR otherwise equal? 

 

Switch > RJ45 > EtherRegen (LPS 1.2) > RJ45 > Ultrarendu (LPS 1.2) > DAC

 

Switch > RJ45 > EtherRegen (LPS 1.2) > optical cable > Opticalrendu (SGC LPS)

[Superdad]

7 minutes ago, sandston said:

With all the positive reviews pouring in for the Etherregen I have taken the plunge and have placed my order.

Wonderful, thanks!

 

7 minutes ago, sandston said:

Does the addition of the Etherregen  appear to negate the need for optical isolation making the added cost of the Opticalrendu a worthwhile improvement in sound quality. I understand that this is very subjective but I would love to hear peoples opinions of the two front end chains. Can anyone speak to the MOAT created by the ER negating the need for the optical isolation? Aside from the addition on the optical module to the OR are the OR and the UR otherwise equal? 

 

I will comment cautiously () as follows:

The EtherREGEN's Active Differential Isolation Moat and reclocking is very effective, and rather few people have indicated hearing much if any difference between feeding the 'A'-side of the EtherREGEN via optical or copper.  But in the case of using an EtherREGEN with an opticalRendu you would turn it around and feed copper into the 'B'-side and then fiber out the 'A'-side SFP cage to the opticalRendu. In which case it would be better to avoid use of the other 'A'-side copper ports so as to keep the optical feed "pure." Using just one-in-one-out reduces the EtherREGEN to a very elaborate--and highly effective--FMC.

 

As for your other question regards the ultraRendu versus opticalRendu:

They are both VERY fine products. And while it is not my place to reveal technical details about Sonore components, I can tell you that yes, the opticalRendu incorporates a few refinements over the ultraRendu--beyond just having an optical input. And what it takes to create that optical input also results in benefits to the unit. That is really all I am allowed to say.

That said, per John Swenson's personal listening tests, pairing an EtherREGEN with an ultraRendu does get you quite near the performance of the opticalRendu (with or without the EtherREGEN).

 

I hope that helps--and I hope not to see us divert too far down this path. 

Cheers,

--Alex C.

[sandston]

Wow Alex that was a fast response an most assuredly inline with the great customer service Uptone has gotten a reputation for. 

 

As I understand it the recommended install would be Switch > longer RJ45 (no metal ends) EtherREGEN > Short RJ45 (Best quality sanity will permit, metal ends OK) > Renderer

 

Does the community have additional comments from the field?

[simorag]

Joined the party earlier today and patiently burning it the ER / LPS1.2 ever since.

 

By now, I can say it has been easy to hear the effect of the ER in my chain (streaming through Tidal) in terms of added transparency, soundstage width and especially depth.

 

Also, timing seems more precise and sharp, and low level details seem easier to appreciate, luckily not as a result of a laser-like, fatiguing presentation (all the contrary).

 

No signs of added harshness to the treble (I am utterly sensitive to that) even straight out of the box … if the improved smoothness after burn-in others have reported will apply to my system as well that would be a welcome icing on the cake, we'll see.

 

My chain to the server is Huawei 4g+ > Audioquest Cinnamon > Pink Faun LAN Isolator > Ether Regen (LPS-1.2) > Supra CAT8 > Innuos Zenith MKII SE.

 

Dumb question (sorry in advance 🥺) is there any possibility that streamed music with the ER sounds better than local files (same album version / resolution)?

 

[ogs]

3 hours ago, Superdad said:

Wonderful, thanks!

 

 

I will comment cautiously () as follows:

The EtherREGEN's Active Differential Isolation Moat and reclocking is very effective, and rather few people have indicated hearing much if any difference between feeding the 'A'-side of the EtherREGEN via optical or copper.  But in the case of using an EtherREGEN with an opticalRendu you would turn it around and feed copper into the 'B'-side and then fiber out the 'A'-side SFP cage to the opticalRendu. In which case it would be better to avoid use of the other 'A'-side copper ports so as to keep the optical feed "pure." Using just one-in-one-out reduces the EtherREGEN to a very elaborate--and highly effective--FMC.

 

As for your other question regards the ultraRendu versus opticalRendu:

They are both VERY fine products. And while it is not my place to reveal technical details about Sonore components, I can tell you that yes, the opticalRendu incorporates a few refinements over the ultraRendu--beyond just having an optical input. And what it takes to create that optical input also results in benefits to the unit. That is really all I am allowed to say.

That said, per John Swenson's personal listening tests, pairing an EtherREGEN with an ultraRendu does get you quite near the performance of the opticalRendu (with or without the EtherREGEN).

 

I hope that helps--and I hope not to see us divert too far down this path. 

Cheers,

--Alex C.

I have also taken the plunge and ordered an ER. Not that I doubted the ER in any way, just waiting for a convenient time for me...

 

I have posted a couple of questions in the installation and usage thread:

 

[Bricki]

My Etheregen is approaching 120 hours. I am finding, like others have said that it has gotten better with time and improved on an aleady excellent improvement. I am finding that all types of music are more engaging and captivating whenever I am within earshot.

 

It's more than just a sound quality improvement, it puts the fun back into your music collection 😁👍

[Matias]

17 hours ago, sandston said:

With all the positive reviews pouring in for the Etherregen I have taken the plunge and have placed my order. With the ER I am looking to finally update my network / digital front end and am looking for some advice from users on the best upgrade path.

 

I currently own a first gen Microrendu fed by a pair of TPLink optical modules. I also own two LPS 1.2 Supercap power supplies. I have read and reread the forums along with the comments from Uptone and Sonore regarding their products regarding best implementation practices and I am trying to decide on upgrading to the Ultra or the Optical Rendu. Does the addition of the Etherregen  appear to negate the need for optical isolation making the added cost of the Opticalrendu a worthwhile improvement in sound quality. I understand that this is very subjective but I would love to hear peoples opinions of the two front end chains. Can anyone speak to the MOAT created by the ER negating the need for the optical isolation? Aside from the addition on the optical module to the OR are the OR and the UR otherwise equal? 

 

Switch > RJ45 > EtherRegen (LPS 1.2) > RJ45 > Ultrarendu (LPS 1.2) > DAC

 

Switch > RJ45 > EtherRegen (LPS 1.2) > optical cable > Opticalrendu (SGC LPS)

I was having similar doubts and ended up going this way:

Switch - AQ Cinnamon ethernet - Acoustic Revive filter - ultraRendu (Sonore LPS) - WW Starlight USB - ISO Regen (LPS-1.2) - SR Galileo UEF USB.

 

Switch is next to be replaced by an EtherRegen whenever po$$ible.

 

[t_ram]

I have an ER on order for the next batch so I’m looking forward to comparing it to a Linear Solution OCXO switch. Anybody by chance already have their ER and previously owned a Linear Solution’s switch?

[desert38]

I replaced my Linear Solutions OCXO switch with an Etherregen and the ER blew the OCXO switch away. Since I spent the money on the OCXO, I use it upstream. The ER made a significant sound difference where the OCXO made a slight improvement. 

[t_ram]

2 minutes ago, desert38 said:

I replaced my Linear Solutions OCXO switch with an Etherregen and the ER blew the OCXO switch away. Since I spent the money on the OCXO, I use it upstream. The ER made a significant sound difference where the OCXO made a slight improvement. 

Very nice, thank you! What power supply are you using for the ER?

[desert38]

I have not upgraded the ER power supply. Just using the stock supply. It is plugged into an AQ Niagara 1000 conditioner. I asked Alex about using the Linear Solutions LPS I purchased with the OCXO and he recommended not using it due to build quality concerns. 

[Superdad]

Gentlemen, please stay on topic in this thread.

 

a) Discussions of Ethernet cables and other tweaks in relation to EtherREGEN belong in the active thread dedicated to that:

 

b) We are all aware that there are some people--on other forums and even here on Audiophile Style--who are stuck thinking about Ethernet (and USB for that matter) as existing only as data packets of ones and zeros (which in itself is just a construct since the signals are a train of timed, variable voltages). The are not considering the issues of either moving clock-thresholds caused by ground-plane noise (itself caused by deterministic jitter) or the effects of common-mode leakage currents.

 

I've been very busy and also slowed down with a cold this past week or I'd have made more headway on editing the text of John's "white paper" which goes into some detail about the above. There is urgency for me to get this done as @austinpop is waiting on a condensed version to use in a Q&A form with the EtherREGEN review he has been working on (he has had a unit since mid-November).

[GryphonGuy]

Whilst this could be a “me too” post about EtherRegen, I’ll try to add value to the EtherRegen community for those contemplating using the EtherRegen in a professional audio setting, particularly those using the Avid MTRX with Dante audio option or its OEM equivalent of DAD AX32 box running Dante protocols (Audio over Ethernet).

 

I have passed the 120 hours mark of run-in and I must say I am so glad the soundstage and presentation of audio through the EtherRegen changed for the better from its out-of-the-box shrilled and flat soundstage to the wonderfully detailed wide, deep and rock-solid soundstage it now presents.

 

Given my limited rig here I have not been able to do full scientific investigations but I have re-recorded non-EtherRegen vinyl tracks through the EtherRegen. Combining the two recordings into one file and there is a much more detailed presentation on playback with the EtherRegen recorded material than with the non-EtherRegen material. The key difference is that the faint sounding signals are so much more easily heard using the EtherRegen. It’s not that they are louder in the mix, just clearer in the mix. So I have to conclude that the signal being captured is different to the signal without the EtherRegen in the recording chain. Obviously playback works in the same way but I do not believe there is an additive process; just nicely formed and electrically quiet ethernet signals at all times.

 

Characteristics of the EtherRegen effect via Dante is that transients are noticeably much stronger. For example, a snare drum struck hard hits hard on playback and seems to know no bounds in how loud it can sound and sounds so close to the original that the timbres of everything sound so much more real. The inky blacks of no-noise are there too and when a vocalist reaches a crescendo in a song, the voice seems to pop appropriately as though they were singing live. Of course this is all relative to the recorded medium. Nothing I’ve mentioned is absolute except the realism EtherRegen brings to Dante audio.

 

To achieve this, I have used OM5 fibre optic cable feeding the EtherRegen using transceivers with wavelength of 1310nm (the 850nm waves on this 850nm optimized cable flattened or crushed the soundstage too much for me). The Ethernet cable on the “B” side of the EtherRegen to the Avid MTRX is a Cable Matters Cat8 cable.

 

I hope this adds value to the EtherRegen community.

 

Regards,

GG

[Bazza13]

In my opinion, you certainly have added much value.  Thank you.

[Heckyman]

Over a week in with my ER and not much more I can say than "me too"! Great product, streamed music just got a whole lot better. Thanks guys!

[Superdad]

Emile Bok of Taiko Audio just wrote a very nice comparative report: 
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-135#post-625209

He mostly used the EtherREGEN in the B>A direction so that he could get fiber to his server. Most people will use it A>B, and will find that careful choice of copper Ethernet cable on the 'B'-side (connected to whatever is your computer/streamer/renderer endpoint) will yield even better results.

Very happy to see that in his super-system (value $250K+?), our humble yet sophisticated EtherREGEN came out ranked above a $3,400 pair of cascaded pair of large switches. 

Our $640 device came out just below the approximately $6,800 set-up of the Telegartner MFP8 Gold II RJ45-M12 copper cable -> Telegartner GOLD M12 switch -> Telegartner MFP8 Gold II M12-RJ45 copper cable. That works for me! 

[k-man]

33 minutes ago, Superdad said:

He mostly used the EtherREGEN in the B>A direction so that he could get fiber to his server.

I thought from his post that he kept things on the A side (A >SFP), did I mis-read?

 

36 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Our $640 device came out just below the approximately $6,800 set-up of the Telegartner MFP8 Gold II RJ45-M12 copper cable -> Telegartner GOLD M12 switch -> Telegartner MFP8 Gold II M12-RJ45 copper cable. That works for me! 

Remember your own blurb: " Its components and topology are unmatched by any other Ethernet switch." 

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, k-man said:

I thought from his post that he kept things on the A side (A >SFP), did I mis-read?

 

It is really not clear how he used the EtherREGEN. Perhaps he failed to even utilize the EtherREGEN's Active Differential Isolation Moat and reclocking. 

His is a complicated system, but here were his rankings:

1) 1 meter audiophile RJ45 copper cable -> Startech FMC -> 10 meter fiber cable -> Startech FMC -> Telegartner MFP8 Gold II RJ45-M12 copper cable -> Telegartner GOLD M12 switch -> Telegartner MFP8 Gold II M12-RJ45 copper cable -> Extreme
2) 1 meter audiophile RJ45 copper cable -> Uptone Ether Regen -> 10 meter fiber cable -> Extreme (BUT NOT using Startech SFP1000ZXST SFP modules!)
3) 1 meter audiophile RJ45 copper cable -> Startech FMC -> 10 meter fiber cable -> Extreme
4) 1 meter audiophile RJ45 copper cable -> Uptone Ether Regen -> 1 meter fiber cable -> Sotm snh-10G -> 10 meter fiber cable -> Extreme
5) 1 meter audiophile RJ45 copper cable -> Sotm snh-10G -> 1 meter fiber cable -> Sotm snh-10G -> 10 meter fiber cable -> Extreme
 

5 minutes ago, k-man said:

Remember your own blurb: " Its components and topology are unmatched by any other Ethernet switch." 

 

I'll stand by that fully until someone opens up their $4K Telegartner GOLD M12 switch and takes photos of the power, data, and clock networks.  There are no other switches using anything like our components and topology. Sonic preferences are another matter. 

[skatbelt]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Emile Bok of Taiko Audio just wrote a very nice comparative report: 
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-135#post-625209

He mostly used the EtherREGEN in the B>A direction so that he could get fiber to his server. Most people will use it A>B, and will find that careful choice of copper Ethernet cable on the 'B'-side (connected to whatever is your computer/streamer/renderer endpoint) will yield even better results.

Very happy to see that in his super-system (value $250K+?), our humble yet sophisticated EtherREGEN came out ranked above a $3,400 pair of cascaded pair of large switches. 

Our $640 device came out just below the approximately $6,800 set-up of the Telegartner MFP8 Gold II RJ45-M12 copper cable -> Telegartner GOLD M12 switch -> Telegartner MFP8 Gold II M12-RJ45 copper cable. That works for me! 

 

The way I read it is that his findings are especially good news for optical Rendu users and others who use optical out as the clean side and actually not the way the ER is mainly used: B side out. His words: "disappointing" and "the soundstage was really small".

 

Not my experience by the way. I do agree with him that the ER's performance is elevated when using a good LPS.

 

I guess it is all very system dependent. It is also my impression that Emile is tuning his server to his taste and that of his clientele. This is perfectly fine but is also like one person loving the sound of tubes vs. another one striving for a very clean and neutral sound.

[McNulty]

11 hours ago, Superdad said:

Emile Bok of Taiko Audio just wrote a very nice comparative report: 
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-135#post-625209

He mostly used the EtherREGEN in the B>A direction so that he could get fiber to his server. Most people will use it A>B, and will find that careful choice of copper Ethernet cable on the 'B'-side (connected to whatever is your computer/streamer/renderer endpoint) will yield even better results.

Very happy to see that in his super-system (value $250K+?), our humble yet sophisticated EtherREGEN came out ranked above a $3,400 pair of cascaded pair of large switches. 

Our $640 device came out just below the approximately $6,800 set-up of the Telegartner MFP8 Gold II RJ45-M12 copper cable -> Telegartner GOLD M12 switch -> Telegartner MFP8 Gold II M12-RJ45 copper cable. That works for me! 

I love the ER in my system but personally wouldn’t use Emiles findings as promotion. He mostly criticized the ER apart from one specific use case with specific SFPs. Also not sure how you got to $ 6,800 for the M12 Gold. Note the cables come with the switch with no extra charge. List price is EUR 4,165.

[Cable Monkey]

A $650 dollar product is being compared with a $4000 product and is more than capable of holding its own. I only see positives there. 

[Dutch]

Just now, matthias said:

 

Emile used only the A side because this was better sounding than going B to A with fiber.

 

matt

Coincidentally I was just reading this over at WBF. Great that you asked as it’s good to know the context. I also think it’s good to post his answer here in full because of this and because we mustn’t forget that the Taiko Extreme is or seems, quite extreme. Emile also keeps rightfully pointing out that his finding are with the Extreme. E.g. for the NUC which he also mentions things could or would work out very differently.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-625381

”The copper B-side is 100Mbit, I have the Telegartner M12 MAGIC switch here which also runs at a 100Mbit speed. Both of these, though "pleasant" sounding, come with reduced levels of detail, ambient retrieval, dynamics and envelopment. Anecdotally I have spend some time testing 10Gbit networking which do take these type of traits up another notch, but unfortunately have not managed to find a way around a certain associated mechanical quality. Years ago, before our servers even existed, I used to reduce my networking speeds to 100Mbit (fiber) to get a less "digital" sound, most certainly a valid way to get better sound from say a mac mini, or an Intel Nuc. To answer your question directly, both fiber and copper connected to the A-side running at 1Gb.”

[jos]

I wish I could read an ER review from Hans Beekhuyzen, others too?

[Lucie]

I would be very interested as he reviewed other audiophile switches (Aqvox and Sotm) earlier.

[jos]

4 hours ago, Lucie said:

I would be very interested as he reviewed other audiophile switches (Aqvox and Sotm) earlier.

Indeed, that's why it would be valuable for us and he is a very, very independent reviewer too, and reviewed more Uptone products in the past. So no hurdle for Superdad too, I think.