UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[Confused]

14 hours ago, KHA said:

@Confused,

 

As I am new to this forum, and also using the Uptone stuff with sotm sms 200 ultra I have purchased the mutec

REF-10 clock . Did you have any issues with synchronizing the ether regen and the sotm sms 200 ultra.

thanks for an answer

 

Karl-Heinz

 

 

Hi Karl-Heinz - Welcome to the forum.  

 

First to point out that this is an UpTone Audio sponsored thread, so any discussions re using the Mutec REF 10 with SOtM kit should take place elsewhere, it is clearly "off-topic" here.  I will send you some pointers via PM.

 

What is on topic here is the use of the Mutec REF 10 with the EtherRegen.  All I can say is that I have not tried this yet, but I do plan to try this in the near future.

[bailyhill]

I have had my ER for nearly 4 weeks.  Its been marvelous.  Had to work thru the burn-in, which was the largest burning I ever had--perhaps it was the cables.  However, it gave a big SQ improvement.  Buy one, try it, you can return in 30 days if it does not do anything for your system.  If these guys did not know what they are doing, they could not have such a positive response.  I suspect the reviewer must have had another problem in his system, as he is about the only bad review out there.  That says a lot.  Most on this forum have had very positive results.  Just go back and read the listening impressions.  I would buy it again.  In fact, I am thinking of buying another.

[emailists]

Quang I had the Baske filter in my system.  The ER is totally in another realm as far as Sonics.

 

When I first got the ER I left the passive isolator in the system for a few days.  Once i removed it there was a noticeable improvement (with ER staying in the system).

[stevebythebay]

On 12/25/2019 at 8:35 AM, emailists said:

Quang I had the Baske filter in my system.  The ER is totally in another realm as far as Sonics.

When I first got the ER I left the passive isolator in the system for a few days.  Once i removed it there was a noticeable improvement (with ER staying in the system).

I’ve noticed in many cases, my own and others on this forum, that adding additional devices and links of mixed variety often degrade the sonic quality.  As usual keeping things as simple as possible is good.  And it helps identify “weak sisters” in the chain. 

[sandervdp]

Hello everyone,

 

Here's another review from the December batch, the EtherRegen has been in the system now for a couple of weeks. 

I've waited a while to post to make sure that what I was hearing was consistent, and needed some time to do proper comparisons. 

 

In short, the EtherRegen is a must have for anyone seriously involved in digital audio, as has been stated here already. It's not night and day difference, as those only come from room or speaker changes. But the EtherRegen does make the difference between good vs great (or between great vs magical depending on where you are in your journey ;).

 

These differences can be picked up in short A/B comparisons. I find Agnes Obel's The Curse a good test track; starting from 1:00 or so, it's easy to hear if there's any digital noise riding along. And there was definitely less (if any?) with the EtherRegen in the chain. 

 

It's also noticeable over the long term. I like how @Jud and others keep posting tracks they (re)discover. That is definitely my experience of the EtherRegen as well, everything is just more musical (correct timing?) and therefor more enjoyable. Another side effect is that Tidal is now perfectly listenable. Before the EtherRegen, I could never finish an album on Tidal, if I liked it, I would download FLAC and play local files instead. Not anymore.

 

One thing I do want to point out is that the EtherRegen is sensitive to power. I've tried it in 3 different places. First as a drop-in replacement of a Netgear FS105, powered by an Uptone JS-2. That was a clear improvement. But there was a 10m cable to the streamer. So tried it with its SMPS in a non-dedicated circuit at 1m from streamer. That wasn't good and was actually worse sounding than the Netgear powered by the JS-2. The SMPS is now plugged into my dedicated circuit (with a Shunyata conditioner), with a 1m JSSG360 ethernet cable to the switch, and this is the best sounding option so far. But will definitely try what an LPS will bring over the SMPS here (will probably order the Farad LPS over the coming days)

 

Alex, John, thanks for a great product! And happy listening all!

 

 

[One and a half]

6 hours ago, skatbelt said:

I agree on the fact that the ER is upperclass compared to Baaske or Emo systems isolators BUT in my system the end result is the best while keeping the Emo systems isolator between my Roon server (a modded Mac mini) and the ER on the A-side. So either it is keeping the A-side or the server cleaner (or both?).

 

I would not be surprised if the EtherRegen has a feedback sensing circuit which monitors noise, impedance levels, perhaps, between the B connector and the NIC in the digital audio device. It's like a load monitor if you like where the B connector source measures and compares to a set of parameters, where optimally noise is the lowest. Not sure how this is actually implemented, but John is clever enough to be aware that an open system has its drawbacks and would vary with the type of NIC used, traffic throughput and effects of reflections and the cable. 

 

From what users describe, the experience is much the same from person to person when connected directly (Connector B to NIC), other than adding in the Baaske or Emo, where the sound becomes worse.

 

When the Baaske or Emo transformers are installed between the B connector and the NIC in the load device, this isolates the load monitoring, and the correction circuits in the Etheregen 'max' out since it tries to correct for something that's missing. Consequently audible results would be apparent. There's no need to raise an alarm, since an open circuit on the B side can occur and shouldn't have any nuisance value.

 

As far as the A side is concerned, there wouldn't be any monitoring at all, no need to, really only look for for valid data, router signals much like a regular switch. When the Baaske or Emo is installed on the A side, the noise is reduced from the source due to the transformers built into these units. They also provide valuable overvoltage protection, which would be recommended in any case, no need to uninstall them!

[Ponkbutler]

Here are my impressions using 2 x Etherregen (purchased from the very helpful Martin at Audiostore in the UK), daisychained in a Naim 500 system with twin PSU on the ND555 and Shahinian Diapason speakers, listening to most types of music. I previously used 2 x Cisco Catalyst 2960 PD switches (with external power supplies).
 

After around 10 days non-stop operation from receipt of the 2 x Etherregens, which had stabilised and become more relaxed and with greater texture in voices, I tried going back to the 2 x PD Catalyst 2960 switches.

 

As soon as I installed the Etherregens I recognised they were quieter and timed well, but had various reservations as they burnt in initially. They were encouraging, but didn’t wow me.

 

So going back to the Ciscos was a bit of a shock. The Etherregens are that much better in my system.

 

It’s not really a question of soundstage, although this is both wider, deeper and more composed in an unobtrusive “natural” way, nor of noise floor, which is much lower, increasing clarity. Nor is it just a question of detail, although there is more across the board. What’s really impressing me is that all of this is presented in an integrated, unforced way. Which brings me to the “above all”: the thing really excels in textural detail and subtle timing variations and interplay, doing a fantastically moving job of conveying the interpretative spirit of my favourite performances.

 

Double bass and cello textural detail is outstanding. Vocal textures are wonderful. Piano is, well, piano… from growling percussion to bell and all the rest. And it’s not just hammer and strings. I finally feel my digital connections are doing the ND555 justice.

So I like them 

On the pratting around front I also came to the following conclusions (none difficult to reach):

 

1 x Etherregen sounds better than 2 x Ciscos and also better than 1 x Cisco + Etherregen
2 Etherregens sound better than one. The difference is not as big as moving from 1 Cisco to 2 Ciscos, although the effect in terms of composure, delicacy, texture, noise floor, timing, space and soundstage is not dissimilar. Interestingly, there is, however, very little difference if you connect from the A side of the first Etherregen to the second Etherregen, testifying to the effectiveness of the design. Connect from the B side (as recommended).

I also found that things worked better with the Nucleus connected to the 1st switch as with the dual Ciscos, though the improvement was less marked (again testifying to the design of the Etherregen).

 

In conclusion, I certainly recommend people try this Etherregen. Buying two is a bit over the top, but worth it for me.

[johnwilk]

For someone who has two PSUs on his Naim 555 to say that 2 Ethergens is a bit over the top makes me smile...

[Jud]

2 hours ago, Ponkbutler said:

1 x Etherregen sounds better than 2 x Ciscos and also better than 1 x Cisco + Etherregen

 

Also what I thought in my system.

[JohnSwenson]

I don't know about the Emo, but I have looked and measured the Baaske extensively. The Baaske is just a transformer, that's it. This gives some extra common mode attenuation, and the bandwidth of the transformer is low, just enough to barely pass an Ethernet signal. This can cut down on some frequencies of differential noise, but it also degrades signal integrity significantly. So putting one between the B side jack of an ER and an endpoint is almost guaranteed to make things worse. On the A side it may may have some effect, but it could be worse or better.

 

My gut feeling is to not use these at all.

 

John S.

[jandersonhill]

8 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

I don't know about the Emo, but I have looked and measured the Baaske extensively. The Baaske is just a transformer, that's it. This gives some extra common mode attenuation, and the bandwidth of the transformer is low, just enough to barely pass an Ethernet signal...

 

This is certainly what I found. I have an ethernet isolator from yet another manufacturer. Before putting in either of the SotM/ER switches, it made a positive difference. With either of these units in place, the isolator made things worse.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, skatbelt said:

I can confirm JS’s remark that an isolator on the B-side does more harm than good. @One and a half explained the technical side of this a few posts back.

 

Sorry, but Gary’s (I think that is his name) explanation was pure conjecture and not how the EtherREGEN actually works. 

[stevebythebay]

16 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Sorry, but Gary’s (I think that is his name) explanation was pure conjecture and not how the EtherREGEN actually works. 

Yep!  Sounded like neat tech gobbledygook nonetheless...🙄

[sgr]

Anyone using the EtherREGEN and the IsoRegen together?  It sound be interesting to find if the listening experience is better together or the IsoRegen not needed anymore? Etc. 

[jcn3]

1 hour ago, sgr said:

Anyone using the EtherREGEN and the IsoRegen together?  It sound be interesting to find if the listening experience is better together or the IsoRegen not needed anymore? Etc. 

They do different things. The ER is intended to clean up network related noise while the IR is intended to clean up USB noise between endpoint and DAC. Not really an "or" situation - they should be additive. 

[Puma Cat]

On 12/22/2019 at 4:14 PM, stevebythebay said:

Been my experience to date, at least with the eR, but have also found it true with other devices I've used, that removing power and then reconnecting power seems to have the effect of altering the workings of the device under test.  It just seems to take a bit of time, usually 1/2-1 hour to get everything stable again.  And that has an impact on SQ to one degree or another.  No clear idea why.

Its because the crystal oscillator in the clock has to come back up to temperature and stabiliize. When you disconnect power, it cools down. This is a key requirement for crystall oscillators to provide a maximal functional response.

 

Also, crystal oscillators are VERY sensitive to vibration so they benefit from mechanical decoupling from the surface, rack or cabinet they are on. I use Herbie's Tenderfeet under mine to good effect, removes some haze and and improves image "focus". 

[Jud]

3 hours ago, sgr said:

Anyone using the EtherREGEN and the IsoRegen together?  It sound be interesting to find if the listening experience is better together or the IsoRegen not needed anymore? Etc. 

 

Yes, I have an ER feeding a microRendu, and an IR between the microRendu and my DAC.

 

All I can tell you is I really like the sound, because I'm not interested in taking the IR out of the system to see what happens. 🙂

[Jud]

The one other experiment I might be interested in doing is to try a USPCB between microRendu and IsoREGEN in place of the Ghent JSSG360 USB cable I have there now.

[elan120]

7 minutes ago, Jud said:

The one other experiment I might be interested in doing is to try a USPCB between microRendu and IsoREGEN in place of the Ghent JSSG360 USB cable I have there now.

Looking forward to read your result.  I did the similar comparison recently except for a different USB cable and was between endpoint and the DAC.

[RickyV]

18 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Looking forward to read your result.  I did the similar comparison recently except for a different USB cable and was between endpoint and the DAC.

What is the verdict of that comparison? I now go from my server via a lush^2 to the IR and via uspcb to the DAC. The IR is now nicely tugged a away out of sight behind the DAC so that’s a plus. If I switch it around the IR comes in to view, I prefer not to have that. I have a spare original lush usb cable so maybe server->lush->IR->lush^2->DAC is an idea.

[elan120]

2 minutes ago, RickyV said:

What is the verdict of that comparison?

I went with Lush^2 to IR to Lush^2 to DAC for the fuller and richer sounding.

[RDOK]

Experiences with EtherRegen

 

This is one of my few posts on the AS forum and the first on the Uptone pages. My apologies for the length, but I could not make this shorter without compromising what I want to report. At the end I will summarize the things I learned from this.

 

There are three reasons why I feel compelled to post my experiences with the ER:

 

First, there have been some posts saying ‘the sound is now so good I do not feel like changing anything’. I felt the same but for reasons below I did experiment further and my, how rewarding that was!

My writing might encourage others to find out if that could be true for them as well.

 

Second, a question some ask and for which not too many answers have been posted is whether the components upstream of the ER still matter. The same goes for the power supply for the ER .

 

Third, for fellow Devialet Expert users, a question asked but not answered that much is whether the USB input is still the best or if the ethernet input needs re-evaluation with the ER.

 

Of course my experiences are valid only for my system, listening room, my ears. I only aim to put one more data point in the forum and encourage others to experiment, with an open mind and foremost open ears. For they are our most sensitive instrument for assessing sound quality. No known measurement equipment or method comes even close!

 

As stated above I had reasons to start testing and experimenting even if I felt the sound to be so good that I just could keep on listening to it:

First, at the time the ER arrived, with also the IsoRegen and LPS 1.2 that were ordered with it, also the dedicated mains spur from the home main switchboard to my HiFi system was connected. And Roon updated from 1.6 to 1.7 and could not be postponed nor rolled back.

That was four changes at once. I decided to let them settle for some time and then take the time to find out which effect each change had. I just wanted to know…..

Second, in my system there is (now: was) an Sbooster power supply that I borrowed and the time is nearing where it needs to be returned. I wanted to find out how to mitigate the effects of the loss of this lpsu in the system.

 

To start with I investigated the effect of the power cable feeding the wall plug. (due to availability for private persons this is a 4x4mm^2 cable. I use two for zero, two for phase in star quad. No twisting, this cable is stiff… and there is a dedicated ground pin for the grounding less than 2 meters from the HiFi set). This was no surprise, giving much more control for the bass, more flow in the music, more relaxed and transparent.

The IsoRegen (powered by the LPS 1.2) brings more spaciousness, subtlety and a bit more control for the bass.

The EtherRegen is a bir airier, further like the IR but less so. Later I found out that powering it with its supplied SMPS is less than optimal and compromised this result.

 

Anyway, this is were I felt like I could live with it. Easily an happy.

But… I needed to get the Sbooster out the system without too much loss.

 

I won’t describe all the details; that fills three pages of notes and goes along the effects mentioned many times by now. Let me just show a sketch of the before and after situation. Between the modem and HiFi side of system is a 10m AQ Forest network cable. I did a lot of changes and made notes after each step.

 

The pictures did not copy here, therefore they are in the attached pdf.

The start situation is the first picture there, after the changes is the second picture.

 

Removing the Sbooster at the modem side of the system cost spaciousness, detail, transparency and clarity. The further changes on that side compensated most of that. The change in switch resulted in more spaciousness than I had before. This switch is very good for audio, very cheap compared to the ER. It benefits from a good lpsu though. It not as good as the ER, but very good value for money.

 

On the HiFi rack side there also were a lot of changes.

Especially connecting the SR4 to the ER was an improvement, most noteworthy a jump in spaciousness, blacker background. But I still need the Sbooster….

 

At this stage I gained in spaciousness, detail, timbre, micro dynamics, in fact in everything. Not a big jump but still significant. And, the system sounds more balanced now. Better than before I started in fact.

 

I am using AudioLinux quite a while now. Before the availability of using acpi (giving the processor a constant frequency) I did not hear a significant difference in the wifi, ethernet or usb inputs of the Devialet.

Meanwhile wifi sounds less (or the others better) but I did not try ethernet for a while. Since the changes in AL and addition of the IR, I expected the ethernet input to fall behind now. But I decided to test it out of curiosity.

To my surprise, and much credit to the EtherRegen, I could now not hear any difference in the sound quality between the ethernet and usb input on the Devialet. That made it possible to remove the NUC and IR from the system. Now the Sbooster was free but also the Uptone LPS 1.2.

That LPS 1.2 I then used to feed the Netgear switch close to the modem/router. To my joy this gave even more spaciousness and a very little bit (if any) increase on other areas. My system has never sounded so good and relative to before these test the improvement in sound quality is impressive!

 

The end situation (for now…) is shown in the third picture in the pdf.

 

Roundup

 

I started with three reasons for writing this.

 

The first, ‘the ER is is so good I lost the urge to change the system’, makes me want to encourage those who feel like that to try and experiment more, not less. For me it turned out that a complete re-balancing of the system was very rewarding. Especially moving around of the linear power supplies made a lot of sense. Just swapping the ER in place of the previous switch turned out to be not the best choice, much more was to be gained.

And to my astonishment the best power supplies I have available are now on the switches!

 

Second, do components ‘upstream’ of the EtherRegen still matter? Oh yes, possibly even more so than before. The EtherRegen on its own brings an improvement. Fed by a good LPSU even more and this in itself is already impressive. And it makes it possible for improvements upstream to shine even more.

 

Third, with the ER the ethernet input of the Devialet gives much better results than before. For me exactly as good as the usb input, but I realise that my modest NUC, and not having taken measures like a Mutec reclocker may make this not the same for others.

 

 

John and Alex, thanks a lot for a terrific product in the EtherRegen. It took quite some work but my system sounds really really good now.

 

Also many thanks for all who contribute to the Audiophile Style long (A novel…) thread and the Uptone threads. I learned a lot from it and it stimulated me to push my system far further than I believed to be possible when I started.

 

Rob

the Netherlands

 

Schets systeem.pdf

[Midnightrambler]

I am loving my etheregen in a high end system using it optically with a Sean Jacob's power supply, system is sounding it's best ever. I am interested if anyone has tried it with an external clock and their findings.

[LowMidHigh]

Connected the ER to a Mac Mini, which feeds a TV set over HDMI and a MiniDSP AES sound processor over US. 

 

First, employed the A side. 

 A noticeable improvement in PQ. Grey blooming in nightly scenes is now completely absent. Colors are vibrant. 

No much difference in SQ

 

Next, the B side

Boom!! PQ is now brilliant. The screen is nothing less than mesmerizing. I’m complled to bat my eyelids here and there.

A big boost in SQ. The clarity and precision are notable. 

 

Conclusion: Going to order a second unit.

[alsterfan]

On 12/26/2019 at 3:07 PM, alsterfan said:

As burning-in of my ER has reached 130hrs, I will soon come back and tell what happened so far.

As a lot has already been said by users, who were quicker than me, about the merits of ER sonicwise I in short will concentrate on what has happened in my chain after 300 hrs of burning-in.

Apart from the music being tighter and more precise it is mainly the soundstage which is still developing with instruments more focused, presenting more details in a more natural way, which is highly enjoyable, as is the fact that I can follow more easily and much longer the tones fading away.

So far I have used a 5TB 3,5´´ Thunderbolt HDD as music storage which "sounded" better than a 2,5´´USB-attached HDD.

But with more "quietness between the notes" I had to put away the Thunderbolt HDD now being too noisy. I hope I can overcome the disadvantage (sonicwise) of the 2,5´´ HDD by using a USB Regen.

Though I have decided to no longer write down what changes my ears picked up, I am convinced the ER is still on its way to make for even more musicality.