Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[ASRMichael]

3 hours ago, jacky5555 said:

Hi, anyone who tried 2 box solution for stylus server + endpoint, and how it compare to 1 box, in term of SQ?

My current server is a fanless NUC8i7 which is nearly identical to the Summus server, and I'm thinking of another NUC8i3 for the endpoint, if the sound improvement's worth it. 

I think your money would be better spent on a linear power supply like a Sean Jacobs DC3 or Paul Hynes SR4 feeding just one NUC. We’ll if you don’t have already? 

[jacky5555]

21 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

I think your money would be better spent on a linear power supply like a Sean Jacobs DC3 or Paul Hynes SR4 feeding just one NUC. We’ll if you don’t have already? 

@ASRMichael, my NUC has Uptone JS2 LPS, it maybe not on par with PH SR4.

It can be upgrated with apacer ram and Intel Optane H10 SSD which is my plan but I have not pulled the trigger yet.

 

[ASRMichael]

3 hours ago, jacky5555 said:

@ASRMichael, my NUC has Uptone JS2 LPS, it maybe not on par with PH SR4.

It can be upgrated with apacer ram and Intel Optane H10 SSD which is my plan but I have not pulled the trigger yet.

 

Just floating ideas because I always think with a helicopter view of my system. E.g. I have 1k to spend, what would give the best SQ improvement for all my system. Last year I spent 1k on dedicated mains supply for my whole system. The sound quality improvement is 10-20 times more than say 1-2 box systems, cables etc? That's another option. Enjoy the journey!!

[Lukasluis]

10 hours ago, jacky5555 said:

Hi, anyone who tried 2 box solution for stylus server + endpoint, and how it compare to 1 box, in term of SQ?

My current server is a fanless NUC8i7 which is nearly identical to the Summus server, and I'm thinking of another NUC8i3 for the endpoint, if the sound improvement's worth it. 

I have done extensive and extended (trial extension) testing regarding this 2 box Euphony config. The best I have so far is Euphony Server on NUC 8i3 to a Windows UPNP Endpoint on Intel NUC 7i3. The endpoint is runs on Windows Server 2016 core and running Jplay Femto. This 2 box setup is much better than a stand alone Euphony in my system. It may be due to the DAC driver which is developed specifically for Windows. The generic Linux DAC driver on Euphony could not even do Native DSD 256. Both the machines are powered by oversized linear power supplies. 

[dc-audiogeek]

I held out for a while, but today I reverted back to Stylus version 20210108 and am surprised at the improvement. The sound is warmer and less "digital," as others have observed. 

[davide256]

10 hours ago, Lukasluis said:

I have done extensive and extended (trial extension) testing regarding this 2 box Euphony config. The best I have so far is Euphony Server on NUC 8i3 to a Windows UPNP Endpoint on Intel NUC 7i3. The endpoint is runs on Windows Server 2016 core and running Jplay Femto. This 2 box setup is much better than a stand alone Euphony in my system. It may be due to the DAC driver which is developed specifically for Windows. The generic Linux DAC driver on Euphony could not even do Native DSD 256. Both the machines are powered by oversized linear power supplies. 

Curious as to how you are running a JPlay Femto on an i3 NUC without a PCIE slot? I’d really like to improve the USB out on my i7 NUC

[Lukasluis]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

Curious as to how you are running a JPlay Femto on an i3 NUC without a PCIE slot? I’d really like to improve the USB out on my i7 NUC

I use Jplay Femto Software. I use a USB out from the NUC. 

[Holzohr]

19 hours ago, Lukasluis said:

I have done extensive and extended (trial extension) testing regarding this 2 box Euphony config. The best I have so far is Euphony Server on NUC 8i3 to a Windows UPNP Endpoint on Intel NUC 7i3. The endpoint is runs on Windows Server 2016 core and running Jplay Femto. This 2 box setup is much better than a stand alone Euphony in my system. It may be due to the DAC driver which is developed specifically for Windows. The generic Linux DAC driver on Euphony could not even do Native DSD 256. Both the machines are powered by oversized linear power supplies. 

 

What DAC are you using? About Euphony Stylus and JPLAY Femto I had a similar feeling: 

 

[Holzohr]

9 hours ago, davide256 said:

Curious as to how you are running a JPlay Femto on an i3 NUC without a PCIE slot? I’d really like to improve the USB out on my i7 NUC

 

It is possible with a m.2 to PCIe adapter. The drawback is you can not use a m.2 ssd in this case. I am just playing with this solution: m.2 to PCIe adapter plus JCAT USB XE. The NUC (NUC7i7DNKE) is booting either from a Diretta stick or from a NAA stick. I think about purchasing a HDPLEX H1 V3 case plus NUC Kit plus m.2 to PCIe riser.

 

 

[al2813]

1 hour ago, Holzohr said:

 

It is possible with a m.2 to PCIe adapter. The drawback is you can not use a m.2 ssd in this case. I am just playing with this solution: m.2 to PCIe adapter plus JCAT USB XE. The NUC (NUC7i7DNKE) is booting either from a Diretta stick or from a NAA stick. I think about purchasing a HDPLEX H1 V3 case plus NUC Kit plus m.2 to PCIe riser.

 

 

 

Hi, I assembled a NUC with an HDPLEX H1 V3 and the NUC kit + riser cable. I ended up selling the combo becuase i decided to keep my second hand server in a Streacom F10 Alpha for the time being as a combo Stylus server / end point with my JCAT USB card. While the HDPLEX box is a great product and the only solution in the market allowing you to run a fanless NUC with a PCI card, there one point to take into account. You need an external power supply for the JCAT card, since the the riser cable delivers 3,3V and it seems to not be sufficient to power the JCAT. You will also need to get a SATA splitter to allow the single SATA port in the NUC to feed both the JCAT and the SSD (and indeed M2 is not possible). 

 

I have been in contact with Larry on this one and I believe my info is checked. The person who bought my NUC with the case confirmed the same findings to me. He had no issue as he had DIY LPS foreseen both for the NUC and the JCAT card (in his cae net card)

[davide256]

3 hours ago, Holzohr said:

 

It is possible with a m.2 to PCIe adapter. The drawback is you can not use a m.2 ssd in this case. I am just playing with this solution: m.2 to PCIe adapter plus JCAT USB XE. The NUC (NUC7i7DNKE) is booting either from a Diretta stick or from a NAA stick. I think about purchasing a HDPLEX H1 V3 case plus NUC Kit plus m.2 to PCIe riser.

 

 

 

Thanks!  Would lose Optane boot using the M.2  riser for PCIE but that sounds like a minor sacrifice to get clean 5v USB out +better USB out hardware.

[StreamFidelity]

As you are talking about PCIe cards: I received good news from a customer who said that the XILINX Solarflare Flareon Ultra SFN8522 - network adapter - PCIe 3.1 - 10 Gigabit SFP+ worked right away on Euphony. Anyone who has always wanted to try out Ethernet with fiber optics and is looking for a high-quality NIC with a precise clock and extremely low latencies should give it a try. 😉

 

I wrote here: 

 

[davide256]

4 hours ago, al2813 said:

 

Hi, I assembled a NUC with an HDPLEX H1 V3 and the NUC kit + riser cable. I ended up selling the combo becuase i decided to keep my second hand server in a Streacom F10 Alpha for the time being as a combo Stylus server / end point with my JCAT USB card. While the HDPLEX box is a great product and the only solution in the market allowing you to run a fanless NUC with a PCI card, there one point to take into account. You need an external power supply for the JCAT card, since the the riser cable delivers 3,3V and it seems to not be sufficient to power the JCAT. You will also need to get a SATA splitter to allow the single SATA port in the NUC to feed both the JCAT and the SSD (and indeed M2 is not possible). 

 

I have been in contact with Larry on this one and I believe my info is checked. The person who bought my NUC with the case confirmed the same findings to me. He had no issue as he had DIY LPS foreseen both for the NUC and the JCAT card (in his cae net card)

JCAT site doesn't list specs for current draw on the Femto, any idea how much amperage is needed for external LPS? Any reason you can't do SATA

boot if you have external LPS?

[bos3812]

22 minutes ago, davide256 said:

JCAT site doesn't list specs for current draw on the Femto, any idea how much amperage is needed for external LPS? Any reason you can't do SATA

boot if you have external LPS?

1A is fine.

[bos3812]

6 minutes ago, bos3812 said:

1A is fine.

I hope you ment the usb card here. The network card needs more power. 2A is recommended.

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, bos3812 said:

1A is fine.

 

I've had issues with the USB XE and an Uptone LPS-1.2 @ 1.1A.  I would recommend more than 1A.  Since using a PHD SR4T @ 2.5A I've had no issues.

[bos3812]

50 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

I've had issues with the USB XE and an Uptone LPS-1.2 @ 1.1A.  I would recommend more than 1A.  Since using a PHD SR4T @ 2.5A I've had no issues.

The XE is totaly different and it's possible it needs more power. Marcin of JCat once said the USB Femto needs 0.5A current. So 1A should be ok.

[One and a half]

3 hours ago, davide256 said:

JCAT site doesn't list specs for current draw on the Femto, any idea how much amperage is needed for external LPS? Any reason you can't do SATA

boot if you have external LPS?

5V 2A, it’s in the setup manual. It does benefit from an external LPS.

[Speedy381]

I have reverted to an earlier release. And relax.... wow, that's better. If my first exposure to Euphony had been the latest release I'm pretty certain I would not have carried on. The sound of the latest to me is like various very expensive servers I tried and could not get on with. Just no music. 

[di-fi]

When changing to a track with a different bit depth the next track plays with heavy distortion

 

I am hoping that someone in this great and resourceful community (many thanks for sharing!) could give me a clue how/where to troubleshoot. With my setup (details in my profile)  I did not have any problem until end last year.  Then suddenly my (1 box) Euphony Stylus (ram root and buffer) started randomly playing distorted tracks when changing from 16 bit to 24 (and 24 to 16) from a play list or 'radio' function. Basically in my day to day listening (all my music is on a NAS) I can only play 1 album (same bit-depth either 16 or 24) or make playlists with one bit depth. When it happens I can hear the song play, but it is extremely distorted, a lot of high, no bass. Sometimes the song will play distorted and at a faster pace. 

Without blaming Euphony, this distortion began december last year after Euphony/ Željko was troubleshooting so I could have all tracks of 1 album (instead of only 2) loaded in memory. (That has been fixed since for everyone).  Another change I made in that time was the installation of the new UNISON USB card in my Yggdrasil dac.

In December Željko did some testing for the distortion. I could provoke the distortion while changing tracks, he listened to a distorted song, could not see a bug in Euphony code and concluded this must be some kind of unfortunate incompatibility between OS and my dac. He stated that only if more users have this problem (which I honestly do not wish to anyone ;-) there might be a solution.

 

I did not find any indication Unison is not explicitly supported by Linux and relies on generic USB drivers. I tried changing dac delay in Stylus settings, changing sample rates or not at all. I am  hesitant to uninstall the unison card but it could confirm where (not) to find the error. I could separate/eliminate all 24 bit files (my DAC plays 16bit wonderfully :-)) , but I do not consider that a real solution. 

Does anyone have an idea? Thanks in advance,
Paul



Sound file below (you can hear me change tracks). You do not need to listen for long, it sounds pretty awful:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1aMrj1bH0Naeh5AHoFlj1_nYGuyuOCD4u?usp=sharing

 

Please note I can flawlessly play up to 196kHz - PCM. But no DSD due to Yggdrasill dac. 

[davide256]

14 hours ago, di-fi said:

When changing to a track with a different bit depth the next track plays with heavy distortion

 

I am hoping that someone in this great and resourceful community (many thanks for sharing!) could give me a clue how/where to troubleshoot. With my setup (details in my profile)  I did not have any problem until end last year.  Then suddenly my (1 box) Euphony Stylus (ram root and buffer) started randomly playing distorted tracks when changing from 16 bit to 24 (and 24 to 16) from a play list or 'radio' function. Basically in my day to day listening (all my music is on a NAS) I can only play 1 album (same bit-depth either 16 or 24) or make playlists with one bit depth. When it happens I can hear the song play, but it is extremely distorted, a lot of high, no bass. Sometimes the song will play distorted and at a faster pace. 

Without blaming Euphony, this distortion began december last year after Euphony/ Željko was troubleshooting so I could have all tracks of 1 album (instead of only 2) loaded in memory. (That has been fixed since for everyone).  Another change I made in that time was the installation of the new UNISON USB card in my Yggdrasil dac.

In December Željko did some testing for the distortion. I could provoke the distortion while changing tracks, he listened to a distorted song, could not see a bug in Euphony code and concluded this must be some kind of unfortunate incompatibility between OS and my dac. He stated that only if more users have this problem (which I honestly do not wish to anyone ;-) there might be a solution.

 

I did not find any indication Unison is not explicitly supported by Linux and relies on generic USB drivers. I tried changing dac delay in Stylus settings, changing sample rates or not at all. I am  hesitant to uninstall the unison card but it could confirm where (not) to find the error. I could separate/eliminate all 24 bit files (my DAC plays 16bit wonderfully :-)) , but I do not consider that a real solution. 

Does anyone have an idea? Thanks in advance,
Paul



Sound file below (you can hear me change tracks). You do not need to listen for long, it sounds pretty awful:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1aMrj1bH0Naeh5AHoFlj1_nYGuyuOCD4u?usp=sharing

 

Please note I can flawlessly play up to 196kHz - PCM. But no DSD due to Yggdrasill dac. 

Do you have the same issue when you are using the USB ports native to the SuperMicro MOBO vs those on the Startech USB card? Can't say that I encountered

this when I had a Gumby with the Unison upgrade connected to NUC. I seem to recall that the Gungnir always audibly clicked when speed rate changed.

[di-fi]

Hi davide256,

 

Yes , I have the same issue on both native USB ports. Right now am testing the Realtek USB (PEXUSB311AC3). It does not resolve the bit depth problem, but soundwise it's an improvement.

 

I can confirm that the clicks unfortunately are part of the Schiit dac design. So I always hear them, and got used to ignoring them. 

_From Schiit website: It’s totally normal for Bifrost, Gungnir, and Yggdrasil DACs to click (mechanically, from the chassis) during normal operation. That’s the muting relay, doing its job. It clicks whenever the SPDIF datastream is interrupted._

 

To get to what's causing this Euphony distortion when changing 16 bit to 24 bit songs,  I have to pin down on what causes this and at AudiophileStyle I am looking for help with that. Johnseye recently mentioned in this thread a problem ''Stylus either not playing song after song consecutively in the queue or just have a general difficulty playing songs at all?'' and it got solved and it was no hardware issue. It made me realize that maybe there is something in common with my problem?

 

There are so many factors at play that I feel a bit lost. But I can not keep listening to Euphony with random distortion. When listening to music random I have to sometimes run to find a phone or tablet to restart the app (and track will continue to play as usual), or my family members have to run for the volume control. Specially at higher volume this noise is quite awful/unbearable.

 

It seems a test with the old Schiit usb card will give me an answer, but it takes me 1-2 hours to open and close with a multitude of screws so I do not like opening the Yggy myself (but I can) I could also change player software, but I have to install a new one and compromise on Euphony quality. On the USB chain I compared with different cables and/or lengths and with or without IsoRegen.

 

I am open to any solution. It would be great to understand what is going on.

 

Thanks!

Paul

 

 

[sjj]

21 hours ago, di-fi said:

When changing to a track with a different bit depth the next track plays with heavy distortion

 

I am hoping that someone in this great and resourceful community (many thanks for sharing!) could give me a clue how/where to troubleshoot. With my setup (details in my profile)  I did not have any problem until end last year.  Then suddenly my (1 box) Euphony Stylus (ram root and buffer) started randomly playing distorted tracks when changing from 16 bit to 24 (and 24 to 16) from a play list or 'radio' function. Basically in my day to day listening (all my music is on a NAS) I can only play 1 album (same bit-depth either 16 or 24) or make playlists with one bit depth. When it happens I can hear the song play, but it is extremely distorted, a lot of high, no bass. Sometimes the song will play distorted and at a faster pace. 

Without blaming Euphony, this distortion began december last year after Euphony/ Željko was troubleshooting so I could have all tracks of 1 album (instead of only 2) loaded in memory. (That has been fixed since for everyone).  Another change I made in that time was the installation of the new UNISON USB card in my Yggdrasil dac.

In December Željko did some testing for the distortion. I could provoke the distortion while changing tracks, he listened to a distorted song, could not see a bug in Euphony code and concluded this must be some kind of unfortunate incompatibility between OS and my dac. He stated that only if more users have this problem (which I honestly do not wish to anyone ;-) there might be a solution.

 

I did not find any indication Unison is not explicitly supported by Linux and relies on generic USB drivers. I tried changing dac delay in Stylus settings, changing sample rates or not at all. I am  hesitant to uninstall the unison card but it could confirm where (not) to find the error. I could separate/eliminate all 24 bit files (my DAC plays 16bit wonderfully :-)) , but I do not consider that a real solution. 

Does anyone have an idea? Thanks in advance,
Paul



Sound file below (you can hear me change tracks). You do not need to listen for long, it sounds pretty awful:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1aMrj1bH0Naeh5AHoFlj1_nYGuyuOCD4u?usp=sharing

 

Please note I can flawlessly play up to 196kHz - PCM. But no DSD due to Yggdrasill dac. 

I experienced similar issue with Euphony Stylus to Yggy with Unison. When I changed between Webradio and Qobuz streams I experienced a loud constant hiss distortion no music. I opened ticket but they couldn’t reproduce the issue, at the time I wasn’t sure if was caused by the Yggy so not sure they tested with one. In the end they closed the ticket. I have since moved to a different streamer and software that sounds really good to me and uses AES connection with no issues. Sorry I can’t offer you a solution but wanted you to know you’re not the only one who experienced this type of issue.

[di-fi]

Hi SSJ,

If you had the same issue of ''a loud constant hiss distortion'' with a combination of Yggy AND Euphony Stylus and changing for a different software solved the problem I am more tempted to try to run for example Daphile or Volumino from a USB stick and see if playing will improve. (instead of swapping the Unison USB).  I do ONLY play local files, no streaming.

 

Euphony/ Željko spent quite some time troubleshooting before giving up. I played and changed tracks and could provoke distortion, while he was checking what was going on. I think at that time we did not figure out it had to do with 16 bit vs. 24 bit. Today that's what it seems although I can not always force it to happen.

 

Thank you for sharing.

Cheers,

Paul

 

 

[sjj]

19 minutes ago, di-fi said:

Hi SSJ,

If you had the same issue of ''a loud constant hiss distortion'' with a combination of Yggy AND Euphony Stylus and changing for a different software solved the problem I am more tempted to try to run for example Daphile or Volumino from a USB stick and see if playing will improve. (instead of swapping the Unison USB).  I do ONLY play local files, no streaming.

 

Euphony/ Željko spent quite some time troubleshooting before giving up. I played and changed tracks and could provoke distortion, while he was checking what was going on. I think at that time we did not figure out it had to do with 16 bit vs. 24 bit. Today that's what it seems although I can not always force it to happen.

 

Thank you for sharing.

Cheers,

Paul

 

 

I also ran the same Mac Mini w Euphony/Stylus via a USB decrappifier(Schiit Eitr) to SPDIF into the Yggy and didn't experience issues.

Sure seems like something with Schiit USB and Euphony and if so have to believe others would have experienced issues; maybe others will chime in to help narrow down the issue.

In my current setup keep in mind I not only changed software but also changed to a AES connection. fyi, I'm now running a Pi2AES HAT with a Pi4 and for software I'm using Ropieee/XL with UPnP capability and Mconnect on my iPad for control. I stream local files, Webradio and Qobuz with no issues.