Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[Joerg D]

I am happy that Euphony has so many friends. Thanks to Željko for stylus. That way I enjoy the music more. Much better as with Windows.
I wish that the best of 108 and 117 will be combined in the next update.

Jörg

 

[Speedy381]

Ok, I've disabled Ramroot and the sound has indeed shifted again. It's less etched and more musical, the bass is a little flabbier and less formed. However the bass with Ramroot was a little one note at times and everything above that lifted, giving a shrunken vertical soundstage but not horizontal. That all sounds very hifi critic evaluative and I don't intend to sound overly flowery but I really was surprised by the degradation.

That said, I get the feeling that the musicality has come back and the continuous, cohesive sound at the expense of some detail

[edwardsean]

I got a chance to do a bit of experimenting today, and for my system, I can't go the route of disabling ramroot.

 

My impressions fall in line with others here. it does sound more relaxed and spacious like ...108,  but it attains those qualities by smearing the image across the frequency spectrum and soundstage. The whole presentation is "pleasing" but more diffuse and incoherent. 

 

I also can't live with the more closed, etched tightness of ...117/116, but disabling ramroot is not a solution for me. I think you are just leaving a lot of free performance on the table disengaging ramroot. 

 

I may request to go back to 108, but for now, I gave gstp a little more core allocation and that seems to be close to the right balance of clarity and creaminess. 

 

Can you believe how much a difference is made by these tweaks to the OS? Goodness. 

[Speedy381]

I wonder if it would be possible to make 108 available as an optional 'upgrade' and then those of us who do not have it as a fallback can use it without having to pester support individually?

I am torn between the ramroot sparkle, detail, fatigue vs musical smeared sound. I'm not really sure what cpu isolation to play with to get to a less digital sound, or what cores to sacrifice to gst. Any pointers?

[Joerg D]

Hi
I have increased the min. max. frequency of the CPU. This made the sound nervous and cool. Have taken the old frequency again and the warmth and calm come back.
Jörg
 

[KATARRAZZI]

Does anyone here still save img files of versions 108, 116, and 117? Please share with me!

[TheAttorney]

15 hours ago, Joerg D said:

I have increased the min. max. frequency of the CPU. This made the sound nervous and cool. Have taken the old frequency again and the warmth and calm come back.

It's worth experimenting with the EXACT lower speed (I only ever change the "Max" value to change this):

 

My 7i7DN has a base speed of 1.9GHz, with 4.2GHz in Turbo mode.

For the past year, my preferred range has been between 1.0-1.5 GHz, and going below or above this range does not improve SQ. More recently, I've honed in on 1.2Ghz as being the clarity/warmth sweet spot. Going lower than this loses warmth, and above this it gets a bit smeary. Jumping straight to Turbo also sounds good, but I avoid this because any potential subtle benefits do not justify the much higher core temperatures.

 

The above differences are subtle, but worthwhile. A bigger difference in changing the character of the sound is when I enabled Hyperthreading to give a warmer sound. There are so many variables involved here as to what affects what. I use:

 

    CPU 1.2GHz, Hyperthreading on, [0, 1-7 gstp] core isolation, Ramroot on 4GB Apacer 2400 RAM, wifi networking...

 

... and I'm not getting the brightness issues with the '116/117 releases that others are getting. Maybe my system config is just too warm and unresolving to notice the difference?

 

(BTW, the consensus around here is that, the higher the CPU speed, the more important is the quality of the power supply to avoid brightness. My top-quality PH SR7 p/s removes this particular variable from the equation).

[biosailor]

5 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

It's worth experimenting with the EXACT lower speed (I only ever change the "Max" value to change this):

 

My 7i7DN has a base speed of 1.9Ghz, with 4.2Ghz in Turbo mode.

For the past year, my preferred range has been between 1.0-1.5 Ghz, and going below or above this range does not improve SQ. More recently, I've honed in on 1.2Ghz as being the clarity/warmth sweet spot. Going lower than this loses warmth, and above this it gets a bit smeary. Jumping straight to Turbo also sounds good, but I avoid this because any potential subtle benefits do not justify the much higher core temperatures.

 

The above differences are subtle, but worthwhile. A bigger difference in changing the character of the sound is when I enabled Hyperthreading to give a warmer sound. There are so many variables involved here as to what affects what. I use:

 

    CPU 1.2Ghz, Hyperthreading on, [0, 1-7 gstp] core isolation, Ramroot on 4GB Apacer 2400 RAM, wifi networking...

 

... and I'm not getting the brightness issues with the '116/117 releases that others are getting. Maybe my system config is just too warm and unresolving to notice the difference?

 

(BTW, the consensus around here is that, the higher the CPU speed, the more important is the quality of the power supply to avoid brightness. My top-quality PH SR7 p/s removes this particular variable from the equation).

I just tried to play a bit with CPU frequencies. With the CPU max set to 1.2 GHz, my MacBook Air typically runs at 1.05 GHz. Going down to 0.8 GHz as max CPU frequency keeps the CPU running at exactly 0.8 GHz. Lowering the max frequency to 0.6 GHz, however, leaves the CPU running at 0.8 GHz. Obviously, there’s a lower limit to which one can go, at least with my Mac.

 

Needless to say that I hear no difference whatsoever between 1.05 and 0.8 GHz on my Mac. I leave it at 0.8 GHz though, as it lowers CPU temperature by about 2 degs.

 

Would you mind elaborating a bit on hyperthreading, gstp, and Core isolation? Sorry, newbie here!

 

Regards, Paul 

[TheAttorney]

26 minutes ago, biosailor said:

Would you mind elaborating a bit on hyperthreading, gstp, and Core isolation? Sorry, newbie here!

 

Typical CPUs have a number of physical cores (mine has 4) which spread the workload. Hyperthreading enables a greater number of virtual cores (mine has 8) which further spread the workload across the physical cores, with the CPU balancing the workload across all these virtual and physical cores. In recent published screenshots, you can see the load readings on 8 virtual cores, but there are only 4 temperature readings because only the physical cores have relevance for temperature. 

 

With core isolation, you can influence the spread of workload by allocating specific processes to specific cores, thereby isolating the music processes from other workloads, thereby subtly improving SQ. Core numbering starts from 0. Key process names are "stylus" the UI, "gstp" the lower-level process that actually plays the music. Other processes for roon etc.

 

A typical example of [0-1, 2-3 stylus, 4-8 gstp] means that gstp is allocated cores 4-8, stylus 2-3 and "everything else" is allocated cores 0-1.

In my own case [0, 1-7 gstp], the allocation is heavily stacked in favour of gstp, with everything else (including stylus) all crammed into virtual core 0 (which is half of physical core 0) because that's what sounds best. This does put a big burden on core 0, but not a problem because of the low CPU speeds means inherently low temperatures. At turno speeds, this could be a problem.

 

The explanation has evolved over many threads. Best to use the search function to read a few of them and get the hang of it.

One useful shortcut: If you hit the apply key without entering anything in the field, you'll see what the current core allocations are (without changing anything).

 

EDIT: To enable/disable hyperthreading, you have go to BIOS settings, Euphony doesn't do this itself.

[biosailor]

3 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

Typical CPUs have a number of physical cores (mine has 4) which spread the workload. Hyperthreading enables a greater number of virtual cores (mine has 8) which further spread the workload across the physical cores, with the CPU balancing the workload across all these virtual and physical cores. In recent published screenshots, you can see the load readings on 8 virtual cores, but there are only 4 temperature readings because only the physical cores have relevance for temperature. 

 

With core isolation, you can influence the spread of workload by allocating specific processes to specific cores, thereby isolating the music processes from other workloads, thereby subtly improving SQ. Core numbering starts from 0. Key process names are "stylus" the UI, "gstp" the lower-level process that actually plays the music. Other processes for roon etc.

 

A typical example of [0-1, 2-3 stylus, 4-8 gstp] means that gstp is allocated cores 4-8, stylus 2-3 and "everything else" is allocated cores 0-1.

In my own case [0, 1-7 gstp], the allocation is heavily stacked in favour of gstp, with everything else (including stylus) all crammed into virtual core 0 (which is half of physical core 0) because that's what sounds best. This does put a big burden on core 0, but not a problem because of the low CPU speeds means inherently low temperatures. At turno speeds, this could be a problem.

 

The explanation has evolved over many threads. Best to use the search function to read a few of them and get the hang of it.

One useful shortcut: If you hit the apply key without entering anything in the field, you'll see what the current core allocations are (without changing anything).

Thanks for taking the time to explain things! I‘ll search the user forum more deeply regarding hyperthreading.

 

Much appreciated!

[mantis07]

Hello, I'm trying to use RAMROOT with Stylus and am having the issue below. I'm using a Ryzen 4800u NUC with 32GB of RAM. Any ideas? 

 

Thanks!

Tony

 

[davide256]

14 minutes ago, mantis07 said:

Hello, I'm trying to use RAMROOT with Stylus and am having the issue below. I'm using a Ryzen 4800u NUC with 32GB of RAM. Any ideas? 

 

Thanks!

Tony

 

 

 

When fault isolating always best to start with simplest case first, not full bells and whistles. Does RAM root work with copy app config

unchecked? If so, perhaps try clearing the queue before invoking the copy app config option... perhaps Euphony is trying to copy

a queue buffer?

[mantis07]

ahhh. I didn't realize that RAMROOT can be used without selecting either option - it works now ;)

 

Thank you.

[edwardsean]

I also have my core allocations set to: 

0 gstp 1-7

 

This leads me to think that moving up to 16 threads may be beneficial to SQ. So, I'm looking to move from a fanless i7 to a fanless i9. 

 

Has anyone made this jump and found it worthwhile? The difference in cost is quite substantial. 

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, edwardsean said:

I also have my core allocations set to: 

0 gstp 1-7

 

This leads me to think that moving up to 16 threads may be beneficial to SQ. So, I'm looking to move from a fanless i7 to a fanless i9. 

 

Has anyone made this jump and found it worthwhile? The difference in cost is quite substantial. 

Hi, yes I move from i7 to i9! Big shift in dynamics! I have Sean Jacobs 10a version so I’m able to run at 5.0ghz! Cpu full open! Again bigger dynamics! 

[edwardsean]

7 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Hi, yes I move from i7 to i9! Big shift in dynamics! I have Sean Jacobs 10a version so I’m able to run at 5.0ghz! Cpu full open! Again bigger dynamics! 

Thank you that's helpful. Was it just dynamics or were their other gains, soundstage, imaging, detail, etc.?

Could you give a brief description of your fanless i9, pc board, case?

[ASRMichael]

18 minutes ago, edwardsean said:

Thank you that's helpful. Was it just dynamics or were their other gains, soundstage, imaging, detail, etc.?

Could you give a brief description of your fanless i9, pc board, case?

Hi, I have pdf of my system in my profile.  Check there for further details. 
 

I can’t really recall exact improvements but I know was a big lift in SQ. I didn’t take any notes at the time. If I was to now would be a guesstimate. But if pushed more space/Airy & big dynamics. That’s with 10a SJ LPS. Previously used 5a SJ LPS with my i7. So SQ improvement for me is probably a combination of 10a LPS & i9. 
 

i9 9900k

Asus ROG Maximus X1 Formula Z390

Apacer RAM

HDPlex case

 

[edwardsean]

16 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Hi, I have pdf of my system in my profile.  Check there for further details. 
 

I can’t really recall exact improvements but I know was a big lift in SQ. I didn’t take any notes at the time. If I was to now would be a guesstimate. But if pushed more space/Airy & big dynamics. That’s with 10a SJ LPS. Previously used 5a SJ LPS with my i7. So SQ improvement for me is probably a combination of 10a LPS & i9. 
 

i9 9900k

Asus ROG Maximus X1 Formula Z390

Apacer RAM

HDPlex case

 

 

Hmm... that does make it hard to know what was the i9 what was the new power supply, as power plays such a large part esp. in dynamics.

[ASRMichael]

3 minutes ago, edwardsean said:

 

Hmm... that does make it hard to know what was the i9 what was the new power supply, as power plays such a large part esp. in dynamics.

Sorry should have said I upgraded to i9 using SJ 5a. But had to restrict to 3.6ghz. My comments above are based on moving from i7 to i9 using same LPS. When I added the 10a LPS & opened the CPU to 5.0ghz, that gave dynamics another big leap. 

[ASRMichael]

9 minutes ago, edwardsean said:

 

Hmm... that does make it hard to know what was the i9 what was the new power supply, as power plays such a large part esp. in dynamics.

Your profile doesn’t list your system. What are you currently using? Do you have an LPS with individual rails? If not you’ll get better bang for buck upgrading to an LPS than upgrading from an i7 to i9. Or adding say a pink faun usb card? 
 

I think the question should be? I have x amount of spare cash the now, where should I spend it on my system? So many choices. 

[RickyV]

I am having my nuc via the bios in fanless mode. It restricts the max turbo frequency to aprox 3.4GHz. I prefer it over the 1.9Ghz. With cpu isolation I am still on 0-1 gstp 1-7, really liked it, with core temperatures 0 and 1 at aprox 50C and core 2 and 3 at 43C. 
The power supply probably has its influence too, two SJ DC3 regulators in series with CLCLC filtering.

[davide256]

I’m trying Stylus UPNP streaming now with Qobuz, running into issues with some songs truncating early, advancing to next song using an Oppo 103, seems to happen at same place when I repeat play, Oppo song timer shows there was more to play before song quits. Will try a Sony player next, wondering if anyone else has tried this and what their outcome was?

[frederick184]

I’m going direct to DAC from my server, and with the latest release, I find that Roon core sounds better than Stylus by far.  I find Stylus muddy and indistinct by comparison.  Anyone else find this?

 

Colin

[One and a half]

2 hours ago, frederick184 said:

I’m going direct to DAC from my server, and with the latest release, I find that Roon core sounds better than Stylus by far.  I find Stylus muddy and indistinct by comparison.  Anyone else find this?

 

Colin

Is the roon core on Euphony OS or another OS? Not the server version, no?

[biosailor]

4 hours ago, frederick184 said:

I’m going direct to DAC from my server, and with the latest release, I find that Roon core sounds better than Stylus by far.  I find Stylus muddy and indistinct by comparison.  Anyone else find this?

 

Colin

It’s strange to see the huge span of opinions when it comes to digital audio! I myself never liked Roon Core with regards to sound quality. It’s got a great UI, but in my system, and I stress the fact in my system, Roon always sounded anaemic, flat and unengaging. Most importantly, it was bass shy!

Eupgony stylus turned out to be in my system a revelation. All of a sudden, the sound was enjoyable again, full, lively, and the spatial resolution was just stunning! Stylus is debated again whether it didn’t lose a bit of SQ with the latest upgrades, but for me it sounds just perfect!

I must say that running Roon Core from Euphony improved Roon’s SQ quit a bit, but not to the level of Stylus.

These impressions might be caused by my system, and thinking of the quite complex route (MacBook Air > Ethernet > Raspberry Pi 4B running RopieeeXL > USB > Devialet), others may well get completely different perception of SQ depending on their system. So if Stylus is my favorite, it doesn’t need to be someone else’s favorite!