Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[sunny_time_99]

If something sounds digital, for 90% you will find the solution in the Powersupply - not only in the software. Maybe next bottleneck is visible 😉

[Speedy381]

It did not sound digital on the last firmware, only this one. The NUC i7 is powered by a Farad3, a Matrix SPIDF2 powered by an MCRU unit. I'm not going any further down that route

[dminches]

In looking through the change log it doesn't seem like any of these changes "should" affect sound quality unless you utilize them, like UPnP.  I realize it could have but these seemed like some feature additions and some bug fixes.  I guess everyone will know in a week or so if that is the case.  I think early impressions can be deceiving after a reboot.

 

[Joerg D]

Hi, then others have noticed that the sound is more analytical and less warm. After I go back to the January version it sounds more musical again.
 

Jörg

 

 

 

[ASRMichael]

The question is who & with what equipment is my beta testing? It does concern me it used to be Nenon & Austinpop, which I believe are no longer doing beta testing. 
 

Warm v Details - Jesus this is the ying and yang! Getting the balance right is so difficult! 
 

It was easier when all genres sounded the same out of the Ghetto Blaster!!!! 

[davide256]

On 2/16/2021 at 7:43 PM, Mike Rubin said:

This is a basic question that probably is answered in this 75 page thread, but I was confused by something that I perceived to be a conflict between the Euphony website and the user grid.  If I were to try Euphony, it would be installed on a NUC and used to stream from a NAS to Sonore rendus over ethernet rather than over the NUC's USB bus to a connected DAC.  The Euphony site says it requires a DAC connected by USB but the user guide tosses off a reference to enabling upnp without really articulating the use case.  So, can Euphony be used to stream to a upnp device or must it be connected to the DAC by USB cable?

Looks like your UPNP question has been answered. A related question for all to consider

 

When I first encountered AL and Euphony I owned a microRendu. The only side by side comparison I could do for endpoints was running Rooncore to Roonbridge

on the microrendu and Stylus endpoint on a Pentium NUC. Stylus endpoint on the NUC turned out to be superior and UPNP streaming from Stylus server

wasn't an option then. I sold the MR and moved on to a 2 NUC solution for a while, then  was able to collapse it to a 1 NUC solution when I acquired a JS-2.

 

Since then I've reached the conclusion that Rooncore isn't equal to Stylus server in SQ, so am wondering how Stylus server to Stylus endpoint stacks up against

Stylus server to UPNP endpoint, whether a purpose built device like the xRendu family can compete. Would love to see any comparisons of Stylus server to

Stylus endpoint devices vs UPNP with xRendu devices.

[Mike Rubin]

15 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Looks like your UPNP question has been answered. A related question for all to consider

 

When I first encountered AL and Euphony I owned a microRendu. The only side by side comparison I could do for endpoints was running Rooncore to Roonbridge

on the microrendu and Stylus endpoint on a Pentium NUC. Stylus endpoint on the NUC turned out to be superior and UPNP streaming from Stylus server

wasn't an option then. I sold the MR and moved on to a 2 NUC solution for a while, then  was able to collapse it to a 1 NUC solution when I acquired a JS-2.

 

Since then I've reached the conclusion that Rooncore isn't equal to Stylus server in SQ, so am wondering how Stylus server to Stylus endpoint stacks up against

Stylus server to UPNP endpoint, whether a purpose built device like the xRendu family can compete. Would love to see any comparisons of Stylus server to

Stylus endpoint devices vs UPNP with xRendu devices.

Very good question.  I would like to know this, too.  I have a lot more money tied up in my Signature Rendu SE than I would in a second NUC. (I assume in this configuration the NUC's connect via ethernet rather than USB.  If the latter is the required connection, this won't work for me because server and end point are on different floors of my house.)

[davide256]

17 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Very good question.  I would like to know this, too.  I have a lot more money tied up in my Signature Rendu SE than I would in a second NUC. (I assume in this configuration the NUC's connect via ethernet rather than USB.  If the latter is the required connection, this won't work for me because server and end point are on different floors of my house.)

Its the first case, the physical setup doesn't change.  It was a conflict for me selling the microRendu, always felt that it was a  SW use case limitation where

if it ran Stylus endpoint or Stylus server supported UPNP that the outcome could flip.

[edwardsean]

I leave my system running, but I've also rebooted many times. I'm pretty sure the change in sound is due to the update. Euphony, like many audio companies, do not seem to flag all modifications in SQ in their change logs. 

 

How this shift affects you, or to what degree, will obviously vary heavily from system to system .

 

I would venture to say though that if your system already errors on the analytical side I would make sure I can revert to the version before 20210216.

[davide256]

4 minutes ago, edwardsean said:

I leave my system running, but I've also rebooted many times. I'm pretty sure the change in sound is due to the update. Euphony, like many audio companies, do not seem to flag all modifications in SQ in their change logs. 

 

How this shift affects you, or to what degree, will obviously vary heavily from system to system .

 

I would venture to say though that if your system already errors on the analytical side I would make sure I can revert to the version before 20210216.

?? No system in profile or signature... kind of a data point with no x-y coordinates or scale  😉

[mrkoven]

Anyone switch from Roon+HQP to Euphony+HQP and can comment on the experience in SQ difference, if any?

[Johnseye]

16 minutes ago, mrkoven said:

Anyone switch from Roon+HQP to Euphony+HQP and can comment on the experience in SQ difference, if any?

 

Yes, I did that last night.  I've been listening with Euphony+HQP for a while.  I switched to Roon+HQP last night only for a short time.  To my ears Euphony continues to sound better.  Clear, more defined instrument and vocal separation.  Will be putting more time into comparing over the next week or so before settling on one.  I really wish the Roon+HQP could improve to the Euphony level, or the Euphony interface would improve.

[jbm_2021]

I would like to give Euphony a try. Is there any device that can run Euphony server with an external clock capability?

In other words, has anyone tried a Fanless NUC with external clock or something similar?

 

[auricgoldfinger]

3 minutes ago, jbm_2021 said:

I would like to give Euphony a try. Is there any device that can run Euphony server with an external clock capability?

In other words, has anyone tried a Fanless NUC with external clock or something similar?

 

 

Look at the audio system in the post immediately above yours.  :)

[mrkoven]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

Yes, I did that last night.  I've been listening with Euphony+HQP for a while.  I switched to Roon+HQP last night only for a short time.  To my ears Euphony continues to sound better.  Clear, more defined instrument and vocal separation.  Will be putting more time into comparing over the next week or so before settling on one.  I really wish the Roon+HQP could improve to the Euphony level, or the Euphony interface would improve.

 

Thanks yeah it's tough to beat Roon UI/UX but ultimately if SQ is better than it would be worth the switch for me.

 

What are the details of your custom audiolinux server running Euphony+HQP?  Is it an Intel NUC?

[jbm_2021]

7 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Look at the audio system in the post immediately above yours.  :)

Cool "AL NUC NA (sCLK-EX modified)" 😁

[Johnseye]

16 minutes ago, jbm_2021 said:

I would like to give Euphony a try. Is there any device that can run Euphony server with an external clock capability?

In other words, has anyone tried a Fanless NUC with external clock or something similar?

 

 

9 minutes ago, mrkoven said:

 

Thanks yeah it's tough to beat Roon UI/UX but ultimately if SQ is better than it would be worth the switch for me.

 

What are the details of your custom audiolinux server running Euphony+HQP?  Is it an Intel NUC?

 

My "server" is a mini iTX board that had all its clocks modified to tap off an sCLK-EX that also supports a tX-USB ultra and tX-USBexp.  It's running Euphony with HQP Embedded now, although I had been running Audiolinux on it.  I also have an Intel NUC that runs Audiolinux in NAA mode.   I pulled the board out of that NUC and put in its own fanless case.  The clocks on that NUC board were modified to tap off another sCLK-EX that also supports a sNH-10G.  The Mutec Ref10 provides the master clock for those two sCLK-EX's so in turn the server, endpoint NUC, tX-USBultra and switch.

 

I could run the HQP NAA as a stand alone image or Euphony running the NAA.  I like some of the tweaking I can do with the Audiolinux and in the end it's only running the NAA service.  I can load the entire thing to RAM and pull out the USB drive which I like as well.

 

The NUC could run Euphony or Audiolinux on its own but if you want to upsample DSD to 512 I don't think it's well suited.  I do upsample to 512 with the iTX server which is why I use the NUC as an endpoint.  I wanted to isolate any noise from the heavy upsampling.

 

The NUC model is NUC7I7DNK1E.  I have another unmodified one I use as an endpoint in a different room as well.  It doesn't get any use so if anyone wants to buy it let me know.

 

[edwardsean]

5 hours ago, davide256 said:

?? No system in profile or signature... kind of a data point with no x-y coordinates or scale  😉

 

Yup. I'm real mystery wrapped in an Enigma. 

 

It's a system built around a DAVE+SJ power supply, if that provides some reference. I haven't really listed it all out because from there I've gone a little bit on my own way. Cheers. 

[edwardsean]

I do like what this new update brings, but I also find myself missing the previous version, which is now two builds back. 

 

The more I listen, there is a certain "tightness" to the sound that puts me off. Adjusting the core allocations resolves this for me, but it's also causing a bit of thermal issues. 

 

Does anyone know if the "revert to previous version" only works once or if it can go back further?

[davide256]

2 hours ago, edwardsean said:

 

Yup. I'm real mystery wrapped in an Enigma. 

 

It's a system built around a DAVE+SJ power supply, if that provides some reference. I haven't really listed it all out because from there I've gone a little bit on my own way. Cheers. 

Thanks, good to know I would probably have to spend a lot more money before the latest version could pall 👍

[jbm_2021]

3 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

My "server" is a mini iTX board that had all its clocks modified to tap off an sCLK-EX that also supports a tX-USB ultra and tX-USBexp.  It's running Euphony with HQP Embedded now, although I had been running Audiolinux on it.  I also have an Intel NUC that runs Audiolinux in NAA mode.   I pulled the board out of that NUC and put in its own fanless case.  The clocks on that NUC board were modified to tap off another sCLK-EX that also supports a sNH-10G.  The Mutec Ref10 provides the master clock for those two sCLK-EX's so in turn the server, endpoint NUC, tX-USBultra and switch.

 

I could run the HQP NAA as a stand alone image or Euphony running the NAA.  I like some of the tweaking I can do with the Audiolinux and in the end it's only running the NAA service.  I can load the entire thing to RAM and pull out the USB drive which I like as well.

 

The NUC could run Euphony or Audiolinux on its own but if you want to upsample DSD to 512 I don't think it's well suited.  I do upsample to 512 with the iTX server which is why I use the NUC as an endpoint.  I wanted to isolate any noise from the heavy upsampling.

 

The NUC model is NUC7I7DNK1E.  I have another unmodified one I use as an endpoint in a different room as well.  It doesn't get any use so if anyone wants to buy it let me know.

 

Thank you John. In your post in this thread, you shed some more light 

What exactly are the mods needed to a motherboard and which motherboard exactly are you using? If I buy a fanless NUC like this one https://www.onlogic.com/computers/nuc/?cpsrc=Search_Alpha_A&kw=fanless nuc&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvbiBBhD-ARIsAGM48bzjMIlvs2ESx8rtGnImdFiw3LH-eVskMcfjP6j6IS0GZQ4HeQEds5QaAjCjEALw_wcB

will I be able to still use the sCLK-EX to achieve the clocking? Please let me know what do I need to look for in the mobo for this mod?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Lukasluis]

I too, found the resulting sound of the new version unlistenable. The good thing is, I can now stream to my Jplay Femto Endpoint and it sounds great! 

[TheAttorney]

On 2/17/2021 at 7:28 PM, c-w said:

To be precise, it gets disabled after 'image' update but not after 'feature' update. There have been several feature updates lately before this one and they did not disable ramroot.

I fell into this trap by not bothering to check ramroot after the first of the February image updates (because previous Feature updates didn't change ramroot). Then I spent 2 days wondering why I wasn't engaging with the music any more. It's not that it was bad, just that the magic was missing. And sure enough, ramroot was disabled.

 

On re-enabling ramroot (as well as latest Feb update just for completeness), the magic returned. Bliss...

Having temporarily upset my reference point, it's hard now to reliably compare SQ to the previous release, but yes the new one is possibly a bit clearer and more focused, maybe at a slight expense of fullness. I rather like it, and anyway I can easily dial in clarity vs fullness by a small change to my CPU speed, or headphones height adjustment.

 

But for those that don't like the new presentation, rather than consider ways of reverting back, it would be much better if Željko finds what caused the difference and then produces a version that gives us the best of both worlds 🙂. I think he does listen in on this thread sometimes, so maybe he's already working on it? Maybe a new expert setting if we can't have it all at the same time?

 

 

[Johnseye]

13 hours ago, jbm_2021 said:

Thank you John. In your post in this thread, you shed some more light 

What exactly are the mods needed to a motherboard and which motherboard exactly are you using? If I buy a fanless NUC like this one https://www.onlogic.com/computers/nuc/?cpsrc=Search_Alpha_A&kw=fanless nuc&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvbiBBhD-ARIsAGM48bzjMIlvs2ESx8rtGnImdFiw3LH-eVskMcfjP6j6IS0GZQ4HeQEds5QaAjCjEALw_wcB

will I be able to still use the sCLK-EX to achieve the clocking? Please let me know what do I need to look for in the mobo for this mod?

Thanks a lot!

 

 

There are a few clocks used by every motherboard that directly impact SQ.  The processor clock is the most critical.  The other two are the NIC clock and USB clock.  SOtM will tell you that modifying every clock on the board will have an impact.  The three I identified are the most impactful.

 

The clocks on the board will need a connector soldered to them.  A detachable cable connects the mobo clock to the sCLK-EX. I had SOtM do all the soldering work.  I shipped my mobo to them in Korea.  Also buying the sCLK-EX directly from them they matched the frequencies and tested the clocks with the board.

 

Any mobo can be modified.

[bos3812]

I listened two days to version 20210217 but from the beginning I didn't like it. In my audio set (tubes) it became a little harsh and I found myself constantly seeking my remote control to lower down the volume which is a bad sign. So this afternoon I reverted back to version 20210108. I am glad that I have that opportunity because the music is back. I don't know why the sound changed in that direction. Maybe a simple change of the software can cause this. Zeljko can tell us. Of course this is my opinion. It is possible that others like the change in sound.