Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[di-fi]

I never had issues until I found out last year Euphony was not adding all album tracks (only 2 at a time) to my buffer instead of as it was supposed to do (100% buffer, all album tracks). At that time I preferred to play from ramroot (2 Apacer sticks) and to have all tracks in buffer and pull the ethernet out. Euphony resolved this issue and now I could load a full  album or playlist to memory and improve sound. But shortly after this distortion problem started.

 

An odd behavior today when I choose tracks to play from an album sometimes the first track is unresponsive when I tap it (iPhone & iPad pro), if I press the second track the next tracks will follow and load to buffer. If I then press 1st track again it became responsive and will play. 

 

Current Euphony Stylus behavior gives me the impression that in my situation using Ramroot and music loaded to buffer doesn't like to be 'disconnected'. In layman's terms: It is as if the information needed between following tracks to play them right is not properly communicated or not fully understood, specifically for the bit depth part. So Yggy does not receive proper instructions to change bit depth with the next track playing. Makes me think when many of us suffered the gapless phenomenon, changing the tracks caused information problems. That mostly has been settled now.

 

Since the distortion seems to happen only in my setup it makes me wonder if it could be an ethernet or memory issue instead of Euphony or Yggy. 

 

 

[di-fi]

SJJ,

You mentioned SPDIF and AES. For 3-4 months I played SPDIF - Yggy with a SingXer (LPS 1.2) with and wo IsoRegen and it was great, no Issues. I changed back to UNISON USB and LUSH2 usb cable with and wo IsoRegen and that seemed at least equal in quality. It was only then that the distortion occurred. 

The SingXer has been sold, so I can not verify if it is an USB vs. SPDIF issue. Your setup must sound great, I was always curious how Yggy/AES would sound.  I would like to try Engineered eRED dock, but ideally with Euphony. 

[davide256]

2 hours ago, di-fi said:

SJJ,

You mentioned SPDIF and AES. For 3-4 months I played SPDIF - Yggy with a SingXer (LPS 1.2) with and wo IsoRegen and it was great, no Issues. I changed back to UNISON USB and LUSH2 usb cable with and wo IsoRegen and that seemed at least equal in quality. It was only then that the distortion occurred. 

The SingXer has been sold, so I can not verify if it is an USB vs. SPDIF issue. Your setup must sound great, I was always curious how Yggy/AES would sound.  I would like to try Engineered eRED dock, but ideally with Euphony. 

It looks like you are using a splitter cable from the LPS 1.2, or at least your profile shows MOBO + Startech card powered by LPS 1.2. If you are

using a splitter cable you may want to sub in a different supply to the MOBO, see if that resolves the issue. Could be crosstalk from the MOBO

connection causing issues with the startech USB out.

[maxst67]

On 3/11/2021 at 12:27 PM, ASRMichael said:

Just floating ideas because I always think with a helicopter view of my system. E.g. I have 1k to spend, what would give the best SQ improvement for all my system. Last year I spent 1k on dedicated mains supply for my whole system. The sound quality improvement is 10-20 times more than say 1-2 box systems, cables etc? That's another option. Enjoy the journey!!

@ASRMichaelExcuse me I wouldn't want to go OT but you can know what and how did you improve the network power? thank you so much

[NanoSword]

11 hours ago, di-fi said:

I never had issues until I found out last year Euphony was not adding all album tracks (only 2 at a time) to my buffer instead of as it was supposed to do (100% buffer, all album tracks). At that time I preferred to play from ramroot (2 Apacer sticks) and to have all tracks in buffer and pull the ethernet out. Euphony resolved this issue

Sorry for interrupting your post.

 

But I was thinking it is good idea euphony adding only two song in buffer and will continue add every next two song to buffer .

 

with this we can add many  local file album and hit play then disconnect the ethernet so the third and fourth song will start adding to buffer without adding any noise from network and this will continue until all music in buffer without any noise from network.

[NanoSword]

 Thinking again with good better easy solution for disconnect network and keep songs in buffer clean as possible.

 

But this needs the Željko diamond touch to make it very easy .

 

He can add extra feature after we add all local album in queue .

- disable network and then euphony will auto add all music in buffer in 2 seconds.

- network will enable auto after all file in buffer remaining clean and safe from any  network noise  .

 

now we should enjoy the  natural sound even after network is enable .

[ASRMichael]

23 minutes ago, NanoSword said:

 Thinking again with good better easy solution for disconnect network and keep songs in buffer clean as possible.

 

But this needs the Željko diamond touch to make it very easy .

 

He can add extra feature after we add all local album in queue .

- disable network and then euphony will auto add all music in buffer in 2 seconds.

- network will enable auto after all file in buffer remaining clean and safe from any  network noise  .

 

now we should enjoy the  natural sound even after network is enable .

??? That’s ready a feature. Add & buffer albums. Go to expert menu & press play. The network shuts of for the duration of your albums selected. Excluding Tidal etc

[NanoSword]

1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

??? That’s ready a feature. Add & buffer albums. Go to expert menu & press play. The network shuts of for the duration of your albums selected. Excluding Tidal etc

a- with this feature the problem is You have to buffer the queue before disconnecting network . (( this will add network activity  in buffer)) .

b- but I think is better to disconnecting  network first then  buffer .

with option (b) you are buffering  without network activity.

 

I test this with same song two copy I find (b) less harsh more natural more clear . can you make same test from your side .

[NanoSword]

seeteeyou already explain this here .

 

 

[davide256]

12 minutes ago, NanoSword said:

a- with this feature the problem is You have to buffer the queue before disconnecting network . (( this will add network activity  in buffer)) .

b- but I think is better to disconnecting  network first then  buffer .

with option (b) you are buffering  without network activity.

 

I test this with same song two copy I find (b) less harsh more natural more clear . can you make same test from your side .

 A queue is just a playlist until its locally cached or buffering is complete. So perhaps you are caching first?

[di-fi]

Hi Davide256,

 

I put up my audio profile recently, sorry if it was not clear. I have no splitter cable. Thank you for mentioning the crosstalk, I'll keep in mind. 

 

My SuperMicro X10SBA MOBO has 2 separate 12v power feeds:

• Uptone LPS 1.2 (w. custom DC cable) through PICO psu 12V ATX dc-dc feeding the MOBO
• FaradSuper3 (w. custom DC and AC cable) through 4pin PSU connector. 
• SSD separately powered through Uptone LPS 1

 

The Realtek USB (PEXUSB311AC3) card was a recent addition for testing. I installed in PCIe slot and later added 12v through SATA connector on the Realteck card (w. Uptone LPS 1.2). Second option did not change much (I think it is also powered through PCIe slot?), although it is a general improvement (3% like) I decided to return the card (and save for JCAT USB although that doesn't make sense $ wise in my setup, but who didn't say that before?

[di-fi]

To NANOSWORD,

Are you talking about this option. It's included for maybe 3 months. What version of Euphony are you using? (Below Euphony v. 20210108)

 

 

[ASRMichael]

52 minutes ago, NanoSword said:

a- with this feature the problem is You have to buffer the queue before disconnecting network . (( this will add network activity  in buffer)) .

b- but I think is better to disconnecting  network first then  buffer .

with option (b) you are buffering  without network activity.

 

I test this with same song two copy I find (b) less harsh more natural more clear . can you make same test from your side .

Ahh ok makes sense. David256 posted the solution. Cache>Disconnect>Buffer

[NanoSword]

 

26 minutes ago, davide256 said:

A queue is just a playlist until its locally cached or buffering is complete. So perhaps you are caching first?

 

I am enabling cache in my server I use my internal optane drive.

 

But I am trying to explain that we need enhance the method of disabling network with euphony .

I think for better sq we need to disable network first .

second buffering the queue .

this should apply in sequence .

 

[ASRMichael]

3 minutes ago, NanoSword said:

 

 

I am enabling cache in my server I use my internal optane drive.

 

But I am trying to explain that we need enhance the method of disabling network with euphony .

I think for better sq we need to disable network first .

second buffering the queue .

this should apply in sequence .

 

Has anyone asked Zeijko to do it this way? If not I’ll pop him an email. 

[di-fi]

To NANOSWORD,

14 minutes ago, NanoSword said:

 

 

I am enabling cache in my server I use my internal optane drive.

 

But I am trying to explain that we need enhance the method of disabling network with euphony .

I think for better sq we need to disable network first .

second buffering the queue .

this should apply in sequence .

 

Yes indeed, that would be great to not have network interference included with the soundfiles.

[davide256]

12 hours ago, NanoSword said:

 

 

I am enabling cache in my server I use my internal optane drive.

 

But I am trying to explain that we need enhance the method of disabling network with euphony .

I think for better sq we need to disable network first .

second buffering the queue .

this should apply in sequence .

 

So basically you want a macro command that

a) caches the queue

b) takes network connection down

c) buffers queue from cache

d) plays entire queue after buffer completes

e) brings network connection up after play completes or upon any error

 

I will admit I haven't been tempted to use the feature in place for network-less play, prefer something more automated/ idiot proof.

[davide256]

12 hours ago, di-fi said:

Hi Davide256,

 

I put up my audio profile recently, sorry if it was not clear. I have no splitter cable. Thank you for mentioning the crosstalk, I'll keep in mind. 

 

My SuperMicro X10SBA MOBO has 2 separate 12v power feeds:

• Uptone LPS 1.2 (w. custom DC cable) through PICO psu 12V ATX dc-dc feeding the MOBO
• FaradSuper3 (w. custom DC and AC cable) through 4pin PSU connector. 
• SSD separately powered through Uptone LPS 1

 

The Realtek USB (PEXUSB311AC3) card was a recent addition for testing. I installed in PCIe slot and later added 12v through SATA connector on the Realteck card (w. Uptone LPS 1.2). Second option did not change much (I think it is also powered through PCIe slot?), although it is a general improvement (3% like) I decided to return the card (and save for JCAT USB although that doesn't make sense $ wise in my setup, but who didn't say that before?

most troubleshooting is a process of elimination. What I'm wondering is if the LPS 1.2 is too low in current for error free operation powering MOBO and its devices.

Are you able to do a split cable from the Superfarad3 to  both 12V inputs?  The manufacturers site says the CPU consumes 10W but I can't find specs for the MOBO.

However the Superfarad3 should have far more wattage available than the LPS 1.2, even after subtracting the CPU demand. If the problems stays, that would rule

out a PS transient current draw issue.

[di-fi]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

most troubleshooting is a process of elimination. What I'm wondering is if the LPS 1.2 is too low in current for error free operation powering MOBO and its devices.

Are you able to do a split cable from the Superfarad3 to  both 12V inputs?  The manufacturers site says the CPU consumes 10W but I can't find specs for the MOBO.

However the Superfarad3 should have far more wattage available than the LPS 1.2, even after subtracting the CPU demand. If the problems stays, that would rule

out a PS transient current draw issue.

I have been running the SuperMicro MOBO flawlessly from December 2019 on one Uptone LPS 1.2. It ran a bit warm so I added two 90x90x15mm Aluminium Heatsinks on each side. Last November when I added the FaradSuper 3 in combination with LPS 1.2 I tried all (4) possible PSU combinations and settled for having both connected as described above.  Having the SuperFarad3 on the CPU was a more important gain in sound, instead of having it on the MOBO. Since the LPS 1.2 had run the whole MOBO by itself for almost a year, I put it back on the ATX dc-dc. This combination gave the best results. 

 

My set-up is based on low power, no up sampling. CPU isolation at _0 gstp 1-3_. 1 CPU core will max out at 9-10% , others close to 0%. Playing HIRES files drive up 1 core a little more say 10-17% max and other 3 cores move up a little more 5% max.  Core temps 40-44°C. Only when Euphony is buffering an album 1 core will peak at 100% for maybe 10 secs before going down to 10%.

I assume when changing buffered tracks, also from 16 to 24 bit depth and 24 to 16 bit depth it will ask temporarily more CPU, probably I can monitor that with Euphony TEMP/CPU. I did never take measurements, so I can not confirm.

 

As you proposed I will try run everything only on the FaradSuper3 and see what happens (specifically with the bit depth distortion). Farad definitely has more power (12V / 42W) than a LPS 1.2.

 

Adding the SuperFarad3 to the MOBO was a big improvement immediately noticeable through the whole sound spectrum. Next was changing DC cable and a better AC cord also made an important improvement. Based on reviews an other recommended upgrade would be to change the fuse for a SR Orange, I am sure it's worth it.

[Johnseye]

Does anyone have experience with importing an .m3u playlist into Stylus?  I can create a playlist natively within Stylus but am having a challenge getting it to use an imported one.

[TheAttorney]

On 3/14/2021 at 2:00 PM, NanoSword said:

But I am trying to explain that we need enhance the method of disabling network with euphony .

I think for better sq we need to disable network first .

second buffering the queue .

this should apply in sequence .

I've had difficulty trying to understand what problem you're trying to resolve.

 

I think what you're effectively saying is that, when buffering files into RAM, noise from the network somehow enters and stays inside the RAM alongside the 1's and 0's - thereby permanently corrupting the file in some way. And you can hear the resulting SQ degradation when you later play the buffered file - compared to when you had buffered the files into RAM when the network was disconnected.

 

How did you run this test to compare the SQ of the two different ways of buffering the file?

I don't see how you can achieve this test without Z creating the new feature you're asking for.

[Johnseye]

13 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

I've had difficulty trying to understand what problem you're trying to resolve.

 

I think what you're effectively saying is that, when buffering files into RAM, noise from the network somehow enters and stays inside the RAM alongside the 1's and 0's - thereby permanently corrupting the file in some way. And you can hear the resulting SQ degradation when you later play the buffered file - compared to when you had buffered the files into RAM when the network was disconnected.

 

How did you run this test to compare the SQ of the two different ways of buffering the file?

I don't see how you can achieve this test without Z creating the new feature you're asking for.

 

network activity during playback can negatively impact SQ.  disabling the network during playback stops that activity.

this can be tested by disconnecting a network cable or disabling the nic.

[di-fi]

2 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

network activity during playback can negatively impact SQ.  disabling the network during playback stops that activity.

this can be tested by disconnecting a network cable or disabling the nic.

Somewhere above davide256 summed it up very clear to me, what happened to the song before you hear it. (italics are my comments)

 

quote:

 

'a) caches the queue (to your SSD or Nvme or Optane wherever Euphony resides)

b) takes network connection down

c) buffers queue from cache (to RAM buffer from the cache)

d) plays entire queue after buffer completes

e) brings network connection up after play completes or upon any error

 

end quote

 

So I would think in a) there would be network pollution added to the cached file, with network connection still on. Why would it 'filter out" before the buffer state in c)? Please help me understand.

[NanoSword]

3 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

I've had difficulty trying to understand what problem you're trying to resolve.

 

I think what you're effectively saying is that, when buffering files into RAM, noise from the network somehow enters and stays inside the RAM alongside the 1's and 0's - thereby permanently corrupting the file in some way. And you can hear the resulting SQ degradation when you later play the buffered file - compared to when you had buffered the files into RAM when the network was disconnected.

 

How did you run this test to compare the SQ of the two different ways of buffering the file?

I don't see how you can achieve this test without Z creating the new feature you're asking for.

OK I will try to make it simple as I can everyone can Test this one  with his system.

 

First you need same song with two copy let's put name  A and B . or you can use any mic to recorder the result find your way .

 

next

 

- everyone know euphony if there is 4 songs in queue without pressing buffer queue to ram he will start buffer every two song gradually. 

 

so what you need actually

play your songs normally and disconnect your ethernet  after the all 4 song finish put your ethernet back .

 

exclude  song number 1 and 2 because they get noise from network but 3 & 4 will be safe here you need to make your test with song 3&4 .

 

is this still difficult to test ? 

Please share your feedback if you make this test so we can learn from each other.  

[Johnseye]

46 minutes ago, di-fi said:

Somewhere above davide256 summed it up very clear to me, what happened to the song before you hear it. (italics are my comments)

 

quote:

 

'a) caches the queue (to your SSD or Nvme or Optane wherever Euphony resides)

b) takes network connection down

c) buffers queue from cache (to RAM buffer from the cache)

d) plays entire queue after buffer completes

e) brings network connection up after play completes or upon any error

 

end quote

 

So I would think in a) there would be network pollution added to the cached file, with network connection still on. Why would it 'filter out" before the buffer state in c)? Please help me understand.

 

It isn't about the data.  It's not the song cached in RAM.  It's the noise generated by the NIC during playback.  Unless you can validate the NIC is not utilized at all, which is what bringing it down does.  If the NIC is utilized for anything during listening it can generate noise.