MQA is Vaporware

[Tintinabulum]

4 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

we are going to keep the pressure on MQA and see what breaks. And I want it crystal clear to anyone considering streaming MQA that there will be bad publicity at their launch

Wow, a lot of hate there. Thanks goodness there's some people out there protecting the public against this evil. Any other evils you lot conspire against?

[Samuel T Cogley]

3 minutes ago, Tintinabulum said:

Wow, a lot of hate there. Thanks goodness there's some people out there protecting the public against this evil. Any other evils you lot conspire against?

 

I was going to purchase an iFI iDSD Pro until they jumped on the MQA bandwagon.  I bought a Benchmark DAC3 B instead and love it! 👍

[KeenObserver]

22 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

I was going to purchase an iFI iDSD Pro until they jumped on the MQA bandwagon.  I bought a Benchmark DAC3 B instead and love it! 👍

 

I bought the Benchmark DAC3 HGC.  It is an outstanding piece of equipment.  And, it is not infected with MQA.

[Rt66indierock]

27 minutes ago, Tintinabulum said:

Wow, a lot of hate there. Thanks goodness there's some people out there protecting the public against this evil. Any other evils you lot conspire against?

Ah the tired old hate argument. If I was so hateful the MQA people including Bob Stuart would not talk to me. We talk fairly regularly. Some want MQA Ltd to survive, I want it liquidated just a difference of opinion. 

 

I don't recall saying it was evil. I do recall saying it is bad for artists, bad for consumers and doesn't sound better.

 

 

[Ralf11]

The point of this thread is that MQA Sux.

[Lee Scoggins]

6 hours ago, mansr said:

Can we go back to bashing Lee MQA now?

 

Stay classy.

[kumakuma]

20 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Lee, I highly recommend you ask anyone outside the MQA ltd office what they thought about the MQA representatives' behavior. Based on your above comment, I willing to bet it will shock you.

 

Also, I presented facts. Just because the facts aren't on the side of MQA doesn't mean I delivered a biased presentation. I'm still searching for where I was "called out" on anything. Rudely interrupted, yes, but far from called out. 

 

Please tell me what I was called out on and what was biased in my slides. I'll wait right here. 

 

9 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

Stay classy.

 

Can we expect your response to Chris today?

[Lee Scoggins]

21 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Lee, I highly recommend you ask anyone outside the MQA ltd office what they thought about the MQA representatives' behavior. Based on your above comment, I willing to bet it will shock you.

 

Also, I presented facts. Just because the facts aren't on the side of MQA doesn't mean I delivered a biased presentation. I'm still searching for where I was "called out" on anything. Rudely interrupted, yes, but far from called out. 

 

Please tell me what I was called out on and what was biased in my slides. I'll wait right here. 

 

P.S. Jbara showed his cards right under your nose and you still missed it. MQA is about money. He stated that people would no longer go into making music without MQA to help them make money (comical as it sounds). Think about that Lee. MQA is a way for people to make money and has zero to do with improving anything for the consumer that can't be done without MQA.

 

Then again, you're probably still pushing the agenda that Sony invented SACD because of sound quality and it had zero to do with patents running out for redbook CD.

 

A couple of people I spoke with RMAF not on the MQA team thought the discussion after you left was helpful.  Mike and Ken stayed around and answered questions.  You should have stayed too as it would been better for you to ask questions of the team.  In any the discussion ended on a positive note.  Rt66 came outside and had a good discussion with Mike Jbara.

 

I don't understand why you bring up the point about money.  MQA has never been shy about wanting to make $.  They are a startup and need to pay people and make investments.  They also know (as I have explained here several times here) that to get participants in the ecosystem, you have to provide value and money for all the participants.  All successful businesses work this way.  It's even more important when you are trying to establish a new audio standard or way of doing something. 

[mansr]

5 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

startup

That word lost all meaning at least 10 years ago.

[kumakuma]

9 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

A couple of people I spoke with RMAF not on the MQA team thought the discussion after you left was helpful.  Mike and Ken stayed around and answered questions.  You should have stayed too as it would been better for you to ask questions of the team.  In any the discussion ended on a positive note.  Rt66 came outside and had a good discussion with Mike Jbara.

 

I don't understand why you bring up the point about money.  MQA has never been shy about wanting to make $.  They are a startup and need to pay people and make investments.  They also know (as I have explained here several times here) that to get participants in the ecosystem, you have to provide value and money for all the participants.  All successful businesses work this way.  It's even more important when you are trying to establish a new audio standard or way of doing something. 

 

You are dodging the main issue.

 

You said Chris's presentation was biased. Either provide evidence or an apology.

[Jud]

2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

I was going to purchase an iFI iDSD Pro until they jumped on the MQA bandwagon.  I bought a Benchmark DAC3 B instead and love it! 👍

 

I wasn't thrilled about that, although you can install firmware that doesn't do DSD (and allows DSD512 into the bargain).  It's the reason I haven't "upgraded" to firmware that would eliminate my ability to upsample/convert to DSD512, while enabling MQA that I don't listen to.

[The Computer Audiophile]

33 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

A couple of people I spoke with RMAF not on the MQA team thought the discussion after you left was helpful.  Mike and Ken stayed around and answered questions.  You should have stayed too as it would been better for you to ask questions of the team.  In any the discussion ended on a positive note.  Rt66 came outside and had a good discussion with Mike Jbara.

 

I don't understand why you bring up the point about money.  MQA has never been shy about wanting to make $.  They are a startup and need to pay people and make investments.  They also know (as I have explained here several times here) that to get participants in the ecosystem, you have to provide value and money for all the participants.  All successful businesses work this way.  It's even more important when you are trying to establish a new audio standard or way of doing something. 

 

I should have stayed because it would have been good for me to ask questions? That's laughable. I had Bob calling my mobile phone and I had direct access to anyone on that team in the months and years leading up to the presentation. They had nothing to say that I hadn't heard in the past. 

 

I'm still waiting for your evidence of my biased presentation and evidence of where I was "called out."

 

Keep twisting my comments about money Lee. I hear there may be an opening for the MQA Press Secretary. 

[crenca]

12 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

I wasn't thrilled about that, although you can install firmware that doesn't do DSD (and allows DSD512 into the bargain).  It's the reason I haven't "upgraded" to firmware that would eliminate my ability to upsample/convert to DSD512, while enabling MQA that I don't listen to.

 

I had my eye on the iFi Pro for a long time as well.  MQA is part of why I have not acquired one.  I probably will get one when the street price (if?) comes down.  In the meantime, and in an completely different implementation/philosophical direction, I have a Gungnir multibit that is to arrive in a couple of days.

[Ralf11]

48 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 MQA has never been shy about wanting to make $.   They ... need to ... make investments.  ...

 

 

and BTW, they provide no value to consumers.

[KeenObserver]

7 hours ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

A couple of people I spoke with RMAF not on the MQA team thought the discussion after you left was helpful.  Mike and Ken stayed around and answered questions.  You should have stayed too as it would been better for you to ask questions of the team.  In any the discussion ended on a positive note.  Rt66 came outside and had a good discussion with Mike Jbara.

 

I don't understand why you bring up the point about money.  MQA has never been shy about wanting to make $.  They are a startup and need to pay people and make investments.  They also know (as I have explained here several times here) that to get participants in the ecosystem, you have to provide value and money for all the participants.  All successful businesses work this way.  It's even more important when you are trying to establish a new audio standard or way of doing something. 

 

As envisioned by MQA,  MQA is a closed "ecosystem".  Like a septic system.  And full of the same thing.

[ARQuint]

4 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

 

As envisioned by MQA,  MQA is a closed "ecosystem".  Like a septic system.  And full of the same thing.

 

Does this comment add anything to the discussion?

 

The toxicity of the post is underscored by the (for me, and I'm sure others) useful parsing of DSD technology that's unfolded over the last few days on this thread. The principals in that back-and-forth were pretty insistent about their positions and the tone got edgy, but it was still quite illuminating for those of us who don't have an engineering background - who can't do the "maths," as one of the protagonists would say.

 

Someone will suggest that I simply block this guy and, of course, I could. But that won't stop postings like this from derailing a serious dialog regarding a controversial or otherwise challenging issue.

 

Chris has reminded me before how rare this sort of provocative-for-the-sake-of provocation posting is on AS. So how sure is he that KeenObserver isn't someone we've heard from before? The  expressive style, and (lack of) substance seem awful familiar....

[KeenObserver]

The constant use of the buzzword "ecosystem" strains the credulity of the user and does not alter the facts concerning MQA.

The constant redirection of the conversation whenever the truth about MQA is being examined is telling.

The attempts to paint me as being some other person is indicative of someone with nothing to add.

I understand that your publication went all in on MQA and that you have no choice but to play the hand that your editor dealt you.

If you have actual provable facts concerning MQA put them out there.

[Samuel T Cogley]

1 hour ago, ARQuint said:

Does this comment add anything to the discussion?

 

Been wondering the same thing myself.  How exactly is Audiophile Style being served by having someone from The Absolute Sound here whose sole purpose seems to be to prop up Lee Scoggins' relentless MQA shilling?  Is The Absolute Sound really so invested in the success of MQA that they have seemingly permanent representatives in audio forums?

 

Now Mr. Quint is apparently trying to help Chris root out a "hater".  MQA is every bit the land grab we heard about when the rollout was still being presented as some kind of immaculate conception from Bob Stuart's brain.  And Mr. Quint can count me among those who see MQA's licensing "ecosystem" as having negative value for audiophiles.  In my humble opinion, "septic system" is being far, far too kind to MQA.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - Two things.

 

1. Thanks to @mansr for sending me links to all the DSD posts that can be moved to another thread.

 

2. I found a great use for MQA. When searching Roon for an album, when I see the MQA logo it usually means there's an unmolested high resolution version available from Qobuz. Makes browsing for real high resolution easier.

[crenca]

ARQuint, you surprised me. Look up overton window...

[The Computer Audiophile]

Please continue the DSD discussion here, if you so choose. 

 

 

[firedog]

14 hours ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

A couple of people I spoke with RMAF not on the MQA team thought the discussion after you left was helpful.  Mike and Ken stayed around and answered questions.  You should have stayed too as it would been better for you to ask questions of the team.  In any the discussion ended on a positive note.  Rt66 came outside and had a good discussion with Mike Jbara.

 

I don't understand why you bring up the point about money.  MQA has never been shy about wanting to make $.  They are a startup and need to pay people and make investments.  They also know (as I have explained here several times here) that to get participants in the ecosystem, you have to provide value and money for all the participants.  All successful businesses work this way.  It's even more important when you are trying to establish a new audio standard or way of doing something. 

Yeah, after Chris was rudely and repeatedly interrupted, false and irrelevant accusations were repeatedly made, and he was basically the victim of a "denial of service" attack during his own presentation - yeah, he should have stuck around.
I've yet to find anyone who isn't an MQA person or a known MQA apologist/fanboy who doesn't think that the reaction to Chris' presentation was any other than extremely rude and unprofessional.

[firedog]

1 hour ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Been wondering the same thing myself.  How exactly is Audiophile Style being served by having someone from The Absolute Sound here whose sole purpose seems to be to prop up Lee Scoggins' relentless MQA shilling?  Is The Absolute Sound really so invested in the success of MQA that they have seemingly permanent representatives in audio forums?

 

Now Mr. Quint is apparently trying to help Chris root out a "hater".  MQA is every bit the land grab we heard about when the rollout was still being presented as some kind of immaculate conception from Bob Stuart's brain.  And Mr. Quint can count me among those who see MQA's licensing "ecosystem" as having negative value for audiophiles.  In my humble opinion, "septic system" is being far, far too kind to MQA.

 

 

A bit unfair, I think. ARQ has been consistently polite here and has tried to further the discussion. He hasn't been a fanboy for MQA, unlike Lee. I'd agree that he does seem to have a heightened sensitivity to civility and tone-to the point of possibly not being able to read a post for content b/c of what he sees as a nasty tone.

[Samuel T Cogley]

7 minutes ago, firedog said:

A bit unfair, I think. ARQ has been consistently polite here and has tried to further the discussion. He hasn't been a fanboy for MQA, unlike Lee. I'd agree that he does seem to have a heightened sensitivity to civility and tone-to the point of possibly not being able to read a post for content b/c of what he sees as a nasty tone.

 

Fair enough.  I'm still assuming that Quint is speaking for The Absolute Sound here.  Haven't seen any statement from The Absolute Sound disavowing his posts here.

[charlesphoto]

38 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Guys - Two things.

 

1. Thanks to @mansr for sending me links to all the DSD posts that can be moved to another thread.

 

2. I found a great use for MQA. When searching Roon for an album, when I see the MQA logo it usually means there's an unmolested high resolution version available from Qobuz. Makes browsing for real high resolution easier.

 

One thing I haven’t found anyone discussing is processing power needed for MQA vs straight up hi-rez in Roon. I just switched from Tidal to Qobuz (with 100% crossover of 1700 titles!). An MQA runs at about 2.5X on my NUC (or less), whereas a 24/192 from Qobuz more like 70X (the lower number meaning more processing). We have nearly 100mb download speed on our internet so bandwidth is not an issue, but I’d prefer my NUC not having to work so hard - esp as I’ve found MQA to not sound as good as hi-rez, or even 16/44 for that matter (in many cases). So it seems to be a solution for a non-problem (bandwidth) that brings up another issue (processing power). Easy enough now to vote with your choice of streaming service.