UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[Puma Cat]

56 minutes ago, so-no-mah said:

 You can listen at lower volumes without losing information.

Yes,  you can.  👍 I noticed this right away last night. 

[Puma Cat]

I've spent the evening listening to a broad selection of full symphonic classical music, everything from Joaquin Rodrigo's Concerto de Andaluz and Fantasia para un Gentilhombre to Aaron Copland's Applachian Spring, and ER is performing wonderfully. 

 

There is an accurate and mellifluous presentation of hall ambience, spaciousness, depth, width, and instrumental imaging, separation. and definition. Timpani produce incredible dynamics  and scale, and the individual instrumental timbres are detailed and lifelike. I can hear and place individual instruments at the back of the orchestra with respect to placement, volume (loudness), texture and scale. The listening ease that ER imparts makes it enjoyable to listening to a range of different mic-ing, recording, and mastering for the various performances. 

[emailists]

After having the ER in the system for a full day I had a chance to play one of my reference tracks, the Rachmaninov symphonic dances Turnabout/Apollo DVD ripped 96/24 wav.  

 

I found myself turning up the system louder than usual.  I normally tend to manage volume of playback of this track due to hardness or any  amusicality .   The horn blasts with ER in the system took on a whole different character.  Instead of hearing a steely brat of sonic chunk, what I was left with was the metallic bite of the horns.  They had a similar spectral footprint but without what I can best describe as a haze. 

 

Its as if the signal has gotten scrambled in transmission and the ER is suddenly decoding it correctly and the previous “hardness” now rendered with the composition and resonances of the actual instrument.  In a video world I’d liken it to viewing graphics on an HD lcd screen vs. the same graphics on a 4K tv.  It’s the same source material yet one monitor’s curves have ragged edges and the other one displays a much nicer smoother rending.  

 

The voilins on the track now sounded the most natural and here in the room as I've ever experienced. 

 

On Jen Chapin’s Stevie wonder cover,  Revisions, the fingering on the bass hitting the body and playing like a drum, revealed the whole of the instrument’s cavity  resonating.  Jen’s voice was just so natural on this well recorded cut that she’s just simply there. 

 

As I posted in another forum, “avoid this product at your own peril.”

[austinpop]

On 11/10/2019 at 8:59 PM, HumanMedia said:

Austinpop, when are you expecting your ER to arrive?

It will be very interesting to hear if it makes any difference to your already highly tweaked system.

No promises. Wheels are in motion. 

[Crimmind]

14 hours ago, lmitche said:

As one of the lucky EtherRegen beta testers, I can now talk about my impressions. In short, installing the EtherRegen had an immediate and positive impact on SQ quality here. It is powered by one of the LT3045 rails of my Hdplex 200 watt LPS. The 'A' side links to both a Linksys RE9000 LAN extender and a Roon server with the 'B' side connected to my NUC i7 endpoint.

 

For over five years I have experimented with various products and configurations to gain better SQ by tweaking the Ethernet end of one and two boxes solutions. This started with learning to bridge server NICs under Windows and Linux. This technique was later popularized by others as a "Novel Approach and Massive Improvement" in sound quality. Products tested include Tplink Fiber Media Controllers, Emosystems and Baaske medical transformers, Netgear FS105, FS108 and Cisco 2950 switches all with LT3045 double regulation and running at 100 or 1000mbps, various cables from Blue Jeans cable, Supra, Monoprice, etc ... were used with and without external shielding. On top of this, most recently I settled on 5ghz WiFi connections and USB3.0 NICs with success. Without the EtherRegen 5ghz WiFi sounds better than a direct wired connection from endpoint to the network extender.

 

When the EtherRegen arrived, I disabled the WiFi connection on my NUC endpoint, enabled the NUC LAN port and ran a 10 foot Monoprice Slimrun cable to the EtherRegen 'B' side. The network extender and server were connected with two 3 foot connections to the EtherRegen 'A' side.  SQ took an instant jump. I then realized that while it was not in use, the WiFi card in my NUC was still installed. The EtherRegen enabled physical removal of this card and doing so delivered another bump up in SQ.

 

I was thrilled and called Alex to share my findings. He was hearing a similiar improvement with his AL/NUC based system as well.

 

The EtherRegen is a terrific new technology that is going to benefit most systems.

Thanks for your reply. Do you use ER ground screw when connected to Hdplex. I'm a little worried about breaking the galvanic isolation when using ER to Hdplex if not using the ground screw. I guess a have to try and figure it out when I receive my ER this week. 

[lmitche]

3 hours ago, Crimmind said:

Thanks for your reply. Do you use ER ground screw when connected to Hdplex. I'm a little worried about breaking the galvanic isolation when using ER to Hdplex if not using the ground screw. I guess a have to try and figure it out when I receive my ER this week. 

I can't hear any difference with or without the ground attached so removed it.

[lmitche]

9 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

I'm still in the process of writing the paper that goes into great detail about all this. I wanted to include some actual measurements of systems with and without the EtherREGEN, but I'm having some trouble getting measurements made. The super sensitive jitter analyzer I recently acquired cannot be directly connected to the circuits, I have to build an interface circuit and the first one did not work, I've designed a completely new one which should not have the problems of the first one, but the board has not come yet. With the holiday it won't be here until Tuesday, then I have to solder all the parts in etc, that will take a little while, then try and get it to work properly with the test equipment. Its all taking much more time (and money) than I had hoped.

 

So I'm not sure whether I should just finish the paper and post it or wait for real measurements.

 

John S.

John,

 

Your paper will have much greater impact if the theory is backed up with experimental evidence.

 

While my curiosity on the subject of this paper is as high as anyone else, without evidence it's just presenting another guess as to what's going on. I have already collected plenty of guesses on this topic, including one about wave interference. One more guess, even from someone for whom I hold in high esteem such as yourself, won't have the weight of empirical evidence.

 

Plus there is always the possibility that the observed data doesn't fit the model and the theory needs to change.

 

It sounds like you are close to the finish line. Don't get distracted. Keep your eye on the goal.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Larry

[Dutch]

13 hours ago, lmitche said:

Yes, even more so. The notion of a wider pipe applies here.

Hi Larry, just to be 100% sure: in this case we’re all really talking about changes in  your server on the A side of the ER so not your endpoint on the B-side?

[lmitche]

59 minutes ago, Dutch said:

Hi Larry, just to be 100% sure: in this case we’re all really talking about changes in  your server on the A side of the ER so not your endpoint on the B-side?

Yes, the server is on the A-side.

 

The EtherRegen completely crushes the myth that an ultra clean ethernet source isolating the endpoint and DAC from upstream pollution will act as prophylactic for downstream devices.  Instead it appears to be the opposite making it easier to hear upstream enhancements downstream.

 

 

[Puma Cat]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Yes, the server is on the A-side.

 

The EtherRegen completely crushes the myth that an ultra clean ethernet source isolating the endpoint and DAC from upstream pollution will act as prophylactic for downstream devices.  Instead it appears to be the opposite making it easier to hear upstream enhancements downstream.

 

 

I dunno...its very early days yet; most ERs are not fully burned-in yet as the first shipments just arrived last week. Also, there's lots of different components and, more to the point, system configurations that are possible  that introduce lots of variables. In fact, I can't think of another component in a digital streaming configuration than an Ethernet switch that could be used in so many different types of configurations. 

 

In my personal view, its too early to draw any definitive conclusions of what ER does or does not do with respect to its possible interaction in the context of a multitude of possible configurations, and thereby, its influence on overall system audio reproduction and presentation as it relates to those other streaming components, and where they are, in the overall chain (e.g. NAS', routers, streamers, FMCs, power supplies, and...yoiks! Ethernet cables). 

 

What I can say, though, is it sounds really, really good. 

[Puma Cat]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Yes, the server is on the A-side.

 

The EtherRegen completely crushes the myth that an ultra clean ethernet source isolating the endpoint and DAC from upstream pollution will act as prophylactic for downstream devices.  Instead it appears to be the opposite making it easier to hear upstream enhancements downstream.

 

 

The other thing I'm confident that will be very important as we suss out how to most effectively use ER is to be thoughtful and systematic of how it is implemented in these various configurations, and take thorough notes so we can build up a knowledge base that can be used for defining its most effective use for specific applications. 

[Jud]

11 hours ago, emailists said:

I found myself turning up the system louder than usual.  I normally tend to manage volume of playback of this track due to hardness or any  amusicality .   The horn blasts with ER in the system took on a whole different character.  Instead of hearing a steely brat of sonic chunk, what I was left with was the metallic bite of the horns.  They had a similar spectral footprint but without what I can best describe as a haze. 

 

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm hearing, what I described as a relief of congested sound and greater clarity and openness at the high end. It's as if some of the high end of multiple instruments playing was just floating around and giving a subjective impression of harshness; but now with the ER you can say "Yep, here are the trumpets," and it seems quite natural and live.

[Dutch]

12 minutes ago, lmitche said:

The operative phrase here is "easier to hear upstream enhancements downstream". 

If it’s easier to hear upstream changes (with either a bad or good effect on SQ) it can’t be true that the etherREGEN will make upstream stuff matter less. But I’m not a native English speaker so do correct me if I misunderstood. 
 

(of course all the usual caveats apply here like subjective experience, system dependant, ... etc.)

[Jud]

37 minutes ago, Iving said:

Since all networks are noisy (= none are perfectly noise free) - and the EtherREGEN is ostensibly a noise-mitigation device - it should carry us further across that allegoric river in all network circumstances.

 

So the ER is an allegorical paddle, eh?  😉

[lmitche]

27 minutes ago, Dutch said:

it can’t be true that the etherREGEN will make upstream stuff matter less

There are many that anticipated that this would be true.

 

Maybe we should say that the etherregen removes a weak link in the chain, revealing  weaker links on both the 'A' and 'B' sides. When those remaining weak links are strengthened the impact is easier to hear.

[Puma Cat]

With all due respect to the gang, with the multitude of ways that ER could be used, I'm hoping that the thread doesn't stray off-topic to the point where we're trying to discuss how many angels can dance of the head of a pin. 

 

There's many different ways that ER can be deployed into a digital streaming configuration, simply due to the multitude of ways that everyone's system is configured. My suggestion: Think about the ways one can best utilize ER in one's system/configuration and perform systematic experiments to determine what works best in your own use-case. Let things "settle" after re-configuring, live with it for some days or weeks, and take notes. I know I've got at least two different configurations that I expect will work really well and a third that may be interesting to try just to add more "data to the database".

[Jud]

41 minutes ago, Iving said:

(After all, how often do we change our amps and speakers.)

 

I kept the same downstream chain (microRendu, DAC, amplification, speakers) and am happier with the overall result now. I think you will be pleased. I know I was skeptical of the idea and (though I like Alex and John's designs), was not prepared for it to have the overall impact that I feel it has in my system.

[cat6man]

17 minutes ago, Dutch said:

If it’s easier to hear upstream changes (with either a bad or good effect on SQ) it can’t be true that the etherREGEN will make upstream stuff matter less. But I’m not a native English speaker so do correct me if I’m wrong. 
 

(of course all the usual caveats apply here like subjective experience, system dependant, ... etc.)

 

your english is fine.

i believe they meant (and later said explicitly) that it would make 'some' upstream stuff matter less, and they have measurements to show it (leakage, for example).

it seems, from initial feedback, that it clearly does not eliminate all upstream effects and may in fact open up a 'wider/cleaner pipe' through which to enable other upstream enhancements/tweaks.

 

i find this all fascinating, as i have heard no technical explanation (or even a viable theory or hypothesis) for why any of these upstream software and power supply tweaks 'should' be capable of passing through routers, optical converters, reclocking streamers, etc...............but it clearly does and i suspect someday we'll all slap our foreheads with a big d'uh when someone finally figures it out.

 

 

[Jud]

To aid with listening impressions, may I suggest for those with Qobuz to do a before and after ER with the bass on "Come What May," and the bass and cello on "Ruby Tuesday," both from the Colvin & Earle album.

[cat6man]

13 minutes ago, Dutch said:

Fair enough. I was just trying to get clear what lmitche’s findings are exactly.

 

Hopefully Alex will manage to ship my and the other international orders this coming Wednesday so I can find out for myself soon enough. 

 

but a 'wider pipe' should accommodate more angels, unless the EtherRegen also somehow increases the size of the angels?

 

@superdad

you're not messing with the size of the angels are you?

[Puma Cat]

14 hours ago, PYP said:

Just curious:  when folks state the number of hours in the system, do you mean powered up or are you playing music through the ER continuously?  

Playing music through ER continuously. 

[Mike Rubin]

It sounds as though Jud tried but abandoned using the optical port as the downstream one for sound quality reasons.  Is anyone else connecting a device through an SFP module and, if so, how are you feeling about the ER in that application?  I ask because I have an optical rendu now connected to the network with a Sonore optical module that I would switch to another system if the ER is an upgrade of the magnitude this thread suggests it is.

[Puma Cat]

10 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

It sounds as though Jud tried but abandoned using the optical port as the downstream one for sound quality reasons.  Is anyone else connecting a device through an SFP module and, if so, how are you feeling about the ER in that application?  I ask because I have an optical rendu now connected to the network with a Sonore optical module that I would switch to another system if the ER is an upgrade of the magnitude this thread suggests it is.

Yes. My configuration is below. I observed a notable improvement in audio quality when adding ER to my main rack, using the SFP module on the A-side, and replacing a TP-link SFP FMC with my Optical Module in the bedroom/study. Scroll up to page 2 to review my listening impression notes. 

 

Bedroom/Study:

Mac Mini/Roon Core->copper Ethernet->Pace router->copper Ethernet->Optical Module->Tripp-Lite OM-1 LC/LC fiber running to main audio rack.

Living Room/Main Audio Rack:

Fiber (from bedroom/study) -> ER using SFP/optical transceiver on A-side -> copper Ethernet on ER B-side-> SOtM UltraNeo network bridge->USB cable->Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, cat6man said:

the 2nd piece i'm looking for is on the other side of the EtherRegen.  i have my AL/NUC feeding home router ==>ethernet==>opticalModule==>opticalRendu (NAA)==>DAC

 

has anyone had a chance to insert the EtherRegen in front of an opticalModule/opticalRendu combo?

 

I know that there are several opticalModule/opticalRendu owners who have received--or are about too--an EtherREGEN. We believe that best performance will be obtained by directly attaching the EtherREGEN's 'A'-side SFP port to the optialRendu. But I am sure people with all these devices will report in due time. 

 

58 minutes ago, Dutch said:

Hopefully Alex will manage to ship my and the other international orders this coming Wednesday so I can find out for myself soon enough. 

 

Hope is not required. Just lots of hours writing and signing commercial invoices and filing shipping documents. 

 

4 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

It sounds as though Jud tried but abandoned using the optical port as the downstream one for sound quality reasons.  Is anyone else connecting a device through an SFP module and, if so, how are you feeling about the ER in that application?  I ask because I have an optical rendu now connected to the network with a Sonore optical module that I would switch to another system if the ER is an upgrade of the magnitude this thread suggests it is.

 

You should experiment.  I think Jud's experience has nothing to do with the EtherREGEN's SFP port.  It most likely has to do with the SMPS of his Cisco switch and its effect on his system--but not via the optical cable.

But yes, it has been confirmed (first by John Swenson in his own system, and since then by others) that the EtherREGEN goes beyond the opticalModule.  This is not a slight on the very fine opticalModule--easily the world's best FMC for audio. But the core architecture and objectives of the EtherREGEN is the reason that people are hearing and reporting these results.

[stevebythebay]

Won’t dwell on medical stuff, though I had a gout attack last Wednesday on my left big toe, I’m still recovering from…though it did keep me on the couch listening to the EtherREGEN break-in.  And break-in it really did.  I’m glad I raised this break-in question on the forum with Alex, as it proved to be very, very true.

 

I was initially uncertain about how much better replacing my existing Cisco 2960 would turn out to be.  I’d done my best to mitigate all digital and analogue related noise coming from devices, and passing along to others, along with using whatever cabling and interconnects that would prevent pickup or passing of electrical or other mysterious crap.  My config. is as simple as I can make it with Roon player and Eero WiF wired to the ER while the “B” port going to dCS gear.  That’s it.

 

However, after plugging in the ER there was no immediate and obvious change in SQ for my Roon local music playing.  However I did notice that OTA streaming of even low quality radio, let alone FLAC music from Radio Paradise, improved nicely.  However, that’s upstairs cable modem to Eero WiFi access point,  then to another Eero co-located with the downstairs audio system and wired into the ER.  Caveat: the Shunyata Sigma Ethernet cables incorporate technology to mitigate both signal and high frequency noise distortion.  That's what's wired between the Roon, ER, and DAC components So, no immediate revelations from what the ER would come to reveal.

 

After 24 hours of playing music w/o the amps turned on, I found a very dramatic change when I finally got around to hitting the switches on the amps and doing any critical listening.

 

Replacing the Cisco 2960 with the EtherREGEN results in separating the wheat from the chaff - the overall sound level seems louder.  This must be some psycho acoustic effect.  Background is blacker, and sonic decay lingers on, along with much clearer sense of the sonic space surrounding instruments and singers.  

I agree with Jud’s perception of how the ER really started “opening up”.  Clearly lines between all elements of the sonic picture came into a much clearer separation in all areas - location in space, size, realism, etc.  Even listening to live performance the audience seemed more “real” and clearly hearing members shout out things I’d failed to pick up on in the past.

 

And everything Puma Cat has stated I hear as well.  The palpable nature of live playing, especially percussion in attack and decay are very evident.  But it goes way beyond that to what others have heard: fretwork on guitars, reed instruments that just seem far more realistic, and the piano is just so right and clearly displayed.  I’ve just begun listening to the same piece played by different pianists in solo just to capture their style and how the recordings were miked and engineered.  Already very revealing.

 

By keeping things simple in my chain the ER can reveal just how great it is as more than an ideal switch.

Will be fascinating to read John’s technical brief when it arrives.  Hoping he can help provide the laymen among us with what the actual effect that results from the many wiz bang elements he’s put into the ER.  

 

As for all of us who are sharing, I agree with Puma Cat re: the diverse nature of our systems.  Best we can hope for is just a subjective reaction to before/after the addition of the ER, making one simple change.  Too many changes and you’re uncertain what really affected what.

Always feel when I’ve made a positive change in my whole listening environment the result is greater “ease” in listening.  Simply great pleasure and pulls me into the performance rather than showing off.  On the other hand the ER can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear: bad recordings will stick out like a sore thumb that much more.  I’ve already experienced that with numerous albums in my collection.  But then I focus on the performance…

 

Examples of listening sessions:

Sgt. Peppers - uncluttered and quiet with Ringo’s drumming unpacked; all of the micro details exposed.

Jimi Hendrix - Electric Ladyland - phase experiments revealed; Voodoo Child - Jimi’s guitar fully realized; Gypsy Eyes shows off black background and allows exposure of all micro details; all around spatial expansion width/depth/height and precise size and placement of instruments & vocalists; Voodoo Child (slight return) even better showing off many of these attributes).

Sorry for the rather lengthy post...