Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[dminches]

18 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Still trying to get some Apacer RAM for NUC8i7 to replace the Crucial memory I have but looks like COVID has shut down shipments to US?  Only seems to show up

in weird places where I don't trust shippers/customs.

 

Have you contacted Apacer directly?

 

[biosailor]

3 hours ago, davide256 said:

Buffering only seems to happen when Stylus is the active server.  I didn't renew Roon this year, it didn't match the clarity and midrange timbre integrity of Stylus

under A/B comparison using Euphony, found the only time I was using Roon was if I was curious about discography and related music

Thanks for your impressions!

 

Roon for me is a complicated story. I used to run it on my Mac Mini 2018 feeding into a Raspberry Pi 4 and then USB into my Devialet. That sounded thin, boring and brightish. This is in no way a one to one comparison, but running Roon in Euphony on an old MacBook Air and USB-ed straight into the Devialet, Roon sounds so much more involving that I start to like it!

 

But admittedly, listening with Stylus is a better, richer experience, for sure!

[biosailor]

3 hours ago, walloon said:

 

I agree. Currently testing Roon using the free trial period. Library management and music info are great but is it worth the price? Not sure if I will go for the 1 year licence. Still 7 days left to consider.

 

As you say, Roon's library management is fantastic with all its features. My impression has always been that this is more important to Roon than sound quality. On the other hand, I wished Euphony would be just a bit more feature-laden! In many ways it reminds me of Audirvana, but sound wise it's even better.

[dminches]

6 minutes ago, biosailor said:

 

As you say, Roon's library management is fantastic with all its features. My impression has always been that this is more important to Roon than sound quality. On the other hand, I wished Euphony would be just a bit more feature-laden! In many ways it reminds me of Audirvana, but sound wise it's even better.

 

I don’t disagree that Roon has a lot of non-audio features but I am curious what you think you are missing in Stylus with respect to library management features.  It doesn’t pull information from anywhere than the audio files themselves, something that Roon does a ton of, but I think it organizes a library well.

 

[biosailor]

How do you people connect your NUCs/laptops to Euphony to your DACs? I have no other option for the moment as to go straight USB from my MacBook Air to my DAC (Devialet). I know this is not the best solution. I tried UPnP in Euphony via RopieeeXL on a Raspberry Pi 4 but this does not work. I also tried to activate WiFi, but that doesn't seem to work either.

 

Any other options?

[biosailor]

5 minutes ago, dminches said:

 

I don’t disagree that Roon has a lot of non-audio features but I am curious what you think you are missing in Stylus with respect to library management features.  It doesn’t pull information from anywhere than the audio files themselves, something that Roon does a ton of, but I think it organizes a library well.

 

 

It's good, no problem! Taking Roon as an example is not fair. If Euphony would resemble Roon, then it becomes Roon! I think it's important to make the distinction between a good audio player, like Euphony and Audirvana and something that tries to go further, like Roon, but sacrifices the most important, namely sound quality!

 

One thing, though, it would be nice if one could choose genres in Qobuz. Maybe it's possible, I am so new to Euphony that I need to get used to it.

 

But it's a great player!

[ASRMichael]

7 minutes ago, dminches said:

 

I don’t disagree that Roon has a lot of non-audio features but I am curious what you think you are missing in Stylus with respect to library management features.  It doesn’t pull information from anywhere than the audio files themselves, something that Roon does a ton of, but I think it organizes a library well.

 

Very good point, if you break it down...Roon is great if you subscribe to Qobuz or Tidal. To get round this I use Tidal app for recommendations & searches and add to library. This gives more 80% of what I need with library management. Stylus brings so much in SQ v Roon it’s a no brainier for me. Just my view. 

[Speedy381]

You could use a separate USB to digital out, that may isolate any nasties in the USB. I run my USB from NUC into a Matrix Spdif2 and out to i2s with good results over just USB. Especially when the Matrix is powered by a linear PS. More boxes. 

[biosailor]

34 minutes ago, Speedy381 said:

You could use a separate USB to digital out, that may isolate any nasties in the USB. I run my USB from NUC into a Matrix Spdif2 and out to i2s with good results over just USB. Especially when the Matrix is powered by a linear PS. More boxes. 

Thanks!

 

Does anybody know if a Micro-/Ultrarendu can be used?

[RickyV]

3 hours ago, davide256 said:

Still trying to get some Apacer RAM for NUC8i7 to replace the Crucial memory I have but looks like COVID has shut down shipments to US?  Only seems to show up

in weird places where I don't trust shippers/customs.

On Monday 18 January I ordered this memory from Mouser, https://nl.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apacer/D2323240S004/?qs=GBLSl2AkiruWco00G6Jb1Q%3D%3D and collected it on Friday 22 January in Holland. This 8 GB ram stick replaced this type of Apacer ram 4GB 75.B93GJ.G010B which was a good up-tick. This mouser ram is I believe the same ram that Nenon provided a while back. And again this ram is a really good up-tick to previous ram, depth, dynamics and smoothness are all better.

[genvirt]

38 minutes ago, RickyV said:

I believe the same ram that Nenon provided a while back

If I’m not mistaken this one was provided:

https://www.mouser.co.il/ProductDetail/908-D31.23185S.001
 

they are not the same kind of memory types: SO-DIMM vs UDIMM

actually I’m not very familiar with memory types, so just put attention...

[RickyV]

4 minutes ago, genvirt said:

If I’m not mistaken this one was provided:

https://www.mouser.co.il/ProductDetail/908-D31.23185S.001
 

they are not the same kind of memory types: SO-DIMM vs UDIMM

actually I’m not very familiar with memory types, so just put attention...

My ram is 260 pin ddr4 SO-dimm for NUC’s

[genvirt]

1 minute ago, RickyV said:

My ram is 260 pin ddr4 SO-dimm for NUC’s

Yes, I figured this out right now too:)

Enjoy!

[ASRMichael]

I use this Apacer RAM for my NUC

 

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/908-D23.23240S.004

 

If i recall Nenon recommended it

[Joerg D]

On 1/24/2021 at 9:53 PM, biosailor said:

 

I find that Euphony manual pretty awkward, and I'd appreciate too if the community here would help beginners by communicating their experience they gained by setting it up.

 

I myself had a hard time to get things going and for the moment I am using it for running Roon. That's the simplest setup, at least for me.

 

Here's just a bit of what I gained to answer your questions:

 

Assigning tags can be done in the album info. If memory serves me well, an album has three dots in the upper right corner. If you click on them, you get to the album info. In the album info you can change tags the way you like by clicking on the editing menu. See also my post from Saturday 23rd Jan.

 

I checked 100% buffering of music in the settings menu, but I haven't used Buffer queue to Ram (and I probably won't).

 

The people at Euphony Audio are very responsive, so you can also contact them, or open a ticket should you run into problems.

 

I keep my fingers crossed!

 

 

Thank you very much for your help. I can now add songs to a playlist. And I don't think it makes a big difference if I choose the " 100 % buffering" or if I choose the 
"Buffer queue to Ram".
I like Stylus, it sounds better than Roon+ SylusEP. If you know Roon, the change to Stylus is unfamiliar in terms of operation. But after a few days it works better and is fun.
Unfortunately, I can't activate ramroot because I only have 4 GB of RAM. Support configured it for me, but I didn't like it that much. I know that others are satisfied with it.
Should I try the expert mode, or better not?

Many greetings
Jörg

[maxst67]

Hi, is it better to activate xmp from bios or is it a practice that makes the sound worse?

[edwardsean]

On 1/26/2021 at 2:48 PM, ASRMichael said:

I use this Apacer RAM for my NUC

 

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/908-D23.23240S.004

 

If i recall Nenon recommended it

 

Is this RAM non-ECC then?

 

I'm currently using 2 sticks of 4GB Apacer D21.23180S.001 from Nenon's group buy. However, I'd really like to get two sticks of 8GB RAM.

[jacky5555]

On 1/27/2021 at 3:48 AM, ASRMichael said:

I use this Apacer RAM for my NUC

 

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/908-D23.23240S.004

 

If i recall Nenon recommended it

Tks for the link!

Do you think 8gb ram is enough for ramroot and buffering songs to ram?

 

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, jacky5555 said:

Tks for the link!

Do you think 8gb ram is enough for ramroot and buffering songs to ram?

 

Yes. 

[seeteeyou]

 

On 1/6/2021 at 5:04 AM, ASRMichael said:

when queue is filled from NAS and fully buffered to RAM and when playback starts - network can be disconnected

 

Oh well, that still wasn't good enough to "seal the deal" because an excellent NIC still mattered before it's turned off

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/712/?tab=comments#comment-1105522

5 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

When I was considering buying the new JCAT XE Ethernet card I was thinking to myself? is this now at the stage of diminishing returns?! Well after the card breaks in you say to yourself No it’s not diminishing return & how is this even possible when I use buffer, cache network turned of when playback? But yet there is such a profound improvement in everything!

 

Same deal with the switch(es)

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/691/?tab=comments#comment-1072512

On 8/7/2020 at 3:40 PM, Nenon said:

You can do that same test in my system, and although you disconnect the cable while playing, the buffered tracks using the switch with the upgraded clock sound much better. In other words, even if you disconnect the network cable, whatever good or bad things your network does is already embedded in the buffered track somehow.

 

---

 

However, an internally-powered Solarflare SFN8522 (Onload ain't even supported under Windows) still managed to smoke the original JCAT NET Card FEMTO + flagship JCAT OPTIMO 3 DUO megabuck combo easily

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/62/?tab=comments#comment-1102227  

On 1/13/2021 at 8:56 PM, StreamFidelity said:

The JCAT NET Card FEMTO is well behind Solarflare. I don't have the XE version.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/62/?tab=comments#comment-1102229  

On 1/13/2021 at 9:01 PM, guiltyboxswapper said:

Did you externally power your NET Femto card too?

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/63/?tab=comments#comment-1102261

On 1/13/2021 at 10:53 PM, StreamFidelity said:

Yes, with the JCAT Optimo 3 Duo. An absolutely excellent LPS. And yet, powered by the motherboard, the Solarflare 8522 card is so much better.

 

Of course there's also something even better than SFN8522

 

https://technologyevangelist.co/2019/04/18/828ns-a-low-latency-legacy/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Solarflare-Communication-X2522-25G-PLUS-Xtremescale-PCIe-Dual-Port-SFP28-/324313163280

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SolarFlare-XtremeScale-X2522-PLUS-10G-Dual-10-25G-SFP28-PCIE-3-1x8-NIC-X2522plus/184523220712

 

Once Željko is done with the implementation of OpenOnload and TCPDirect, let's see if X2522-25G-PLUS were able to beat JCAT NET Card XE or not.

[flkin]

If disconnecting the LAN from the streamer and buffered tracks sound worse than if the LAN cable was connected, you have to ask why. I don't believe it's due to the music file being changed for the better by using expensive network gear - safe to assume the data is still bit perfect in the streamer buffer before playback no matter what equipment is being used for the data transfer. 

 

If the sound is better when LAN is connected, the obvious reason that come to mind immediately is that downstream of the LAN input, the playback isn't fully optimised and the LAN network disturbances somehow compensate for this leading to an overall better sound. For example say the LAN network make the sound thin and the power amp makes the sound fat, the combination of the two cancels each other and makes it just nice. In such a case, without the LAN connected, one would hear a fat sound and mistakenly conclude that the LAN connection is somehow correcting the data. Perhaps searching for the component (the power amp in the example) that is not optimised should be the conclusion?

 

The reality of hifi is that most components are not perfect and each has a sound signature to add to the overall sound. What we finally hear is the combination and balance of all the errors in the chain of components from network devices to streamer/s to DAC to pre and power amps to end transducer like the speakers or headphones and along the way, all wires, power supplies, ear, brain etc. It's hugely optimistically to assume that the network and streamer is the only thing that matters and downstream of the streamer (!) all equipment is perfect and neutral sounding.

 

Optimising hifi is a multi-variable problem that has near infinite subjective solutions. When we do come across a logical step like, bit-perfect copy and playback from buffer, to help reduce variables I think we should simply cheer and accept it and move on to the next problem. If we consider that bit-perfect music data in the streamer RAM is the beginning of the equipment chain and not consider how it got there, it does mean a large part of the expensive equipment from network cards and upstream of that card like switches, routers and all attached equipment like clocks, all becomes theoretically redundant. This has unwanted repercussions for many.

 

Ultimately if adding a LAN card or adjusting a switch does cause disturbances in the chain but overall sounds better, perhaps LAN cards and upstream devices still has a useful role to play as a balancing tweak to correct downstream problems. For sure it's far easier to compare the sound of switches or short network/power cables than to compare different huge and heavy amps or speakers. However for me, I would focus my attention and spending on optimising downstream devices.

 

My 2 cents..

[TheAttorney]

On 1/26/2021 at 7:50 PM, RickyV said:

On Monday 18 January I ordered this memory from Mouser, https://nl.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apacer/D2323240S004/?qs=GBLSl2AkiruWco00G6Jb1Q%3D%3D and collected it on Friday 22 January in Holland. This 8 GB ram stick replaced this type of Apacer ram 4GB 75.B93GJ.G010B which was a good up-tick. This mouser ram is I believe the same ram that Nenon provided a while back. And again this ram is a really good up-tick to previous ram, depth, dynamics and smoothness are all better.

This sounds interesting.  I also have  the 4GB 75.B93GJ.G010B on my NUC7i7DN, which I found to be a very worthwhile improvement over the stock 8GB RAM.

 

So you're saying that the new D23.23240S.004 8 GB Apacer was a further step above your old 4GB Apacer?

Approximately how big an improvement was that compared to the original improvement over stock?

 

Although I'm still finding that 4GB is enough for ramroot and a handful of buffered redbook albums, a bit more RAM capacity would help future-proofing.

 

[RickyV]

1 hour ago, TheAttorney said:

This sounds interesting.  I also have  the 4GB 75.B93GJ.G010B on my NUC7i7DN, which I found to be a very worthwhile improvement over the stock 8GB RAM.

 

So you're saying that the new D23.23240S.004 8 GB Apacer was a further step above your old 4GB Apacer?

Approximately how big an improvement was that compared to the original improvement over stock?

 

Although I'm still finding that 4GB is enough for ramroot and a handful of buffered redbook albums, a bit more RAM capacity would help future-proofing.

 

This evening I will swop back to the old apacer ram to make a better comparison but my initial reaction was as is written above. I’ll report back.

[RickyV]

12 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

This sounds interesting.  I also have  the 4GB 75.B93GJ.G010B on my NUC7i7DN, which I found to be a very worthwhile improvement over the stock 8GB RAM.

 

So you're saying that the new D23.23240S.004 8 GB Apacer was a further step above your old 4GB Apacer?

Approximately how big an improvement was that compared to the original improvement over stock?

 

Although I'm still finding that 4GB is enough for ramroot and a handful of buffered redbook albums, a bit more RAM capacity would help future-proofing.

 

So I started with the old version after a week of D23 listening, depth: seems flatter, it has depth but the D23 is more homogeneous that goes also for the sound stage more homogeneous, seems bigger and more separated/ defined and fuller. 
It’s well worth the 100 euros.

Pitty mouser didn’t had 4GB Simms otherwise I would have bought two of those. 

[stefano_mbp]

I’m trying Euphony since few days .... the sound is really good but ...

the library management is the worst I’ve ever found (compared to Audirvana and JRiver) and, the most important bug (anyone realized?), there is no gapless at all using HQPlayer .... this is unbelievable .... here end my trial ....