Objectivists/Subjectivists

[esldude]

57 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

I'm a little reluctant to get back into the thread at all as it seems to have devolved somewhat (and I didn't even read whatever the disgraced Daudio sock puppet posted), but I very sincerely doubt CA has a wide following of evangelicals down to their last two grand.

That only means there's a market yet to be tapped out. That's gold in them there hills.

[esldude]

12 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

So much for the forum failing - it's such a draw people are trying to sneak in illegally!

We need a Wall.  A big beautiful huge wall to keep heathens and virgins out.

[Jud]

4 minutes ago, esldude said:

We need a Wall.  A big beautiful huge wall to keep heathens and virgins out.

 

Any particular reason for the virgins? 

[fas42]

The heathens get a consolation prize - they can console the virgins ...

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

56 minutes ago, wgscott said:

1 hour ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

...now who would have thought a thread entitled "Objectivists/Subjectivists" could end this way.....

 

 

"So many roads to choose
We'll start out walkin' and learn to run
(And yes, we've just begun)"

 

Trouble is the Objectivist/Subjectivist road is certain.

 

"There's roads and there's roads
And they call, can't you hear it?
Roads of the earth
And roads of the spirit
The best roads of all
Are the ones that aren't certain
One of those is where you'll find me
Till they drop the big curtain"

 

 

 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

30 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

So much for the forum failing - it's such a draw people are trying to sneak in illegally!

 

A case for more moderators manning (or wo-manning) the firewall, preferably virgins that are pure and incorruptible ?

[Allan F]

8 hours ago, Jud said:

For myself, I reach a point very quickly where I've said what I had to say, and if folks want to listen to someone else I consider puddingheaded, then as people with my upbringing used to say, (Yiddish accent) "They should live and be well." (/Yiddish accent)

 

As in gey gezunterheyt?

[Allan F]

8 hours ago, Shadders said:

Hi,

I have a brilliant suggestion.

 

Lets all book a hotel conference room, turn up at the right date, and have hundreds of custard tarts, cream cakes, and trifles delivered, and see what happens.

 

I suggest a good cable discussion to initiate proceedings.

 

You are probably going to get objections from people demanding organic or vegan offerings to throw instead.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

47 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

"So many roads to choose
We'll start out walkin' and learn to run
(And yes, we've just begun)"

 

Trouble is the Objectivist/Subjectivist road is certain.

 

"There's roads and there's roads
And they call, can't you hear it?
Roads of the earth
And roads of the spirit
The best roads of all
Are the ones that aren't certain
One of those is where you'll find me
Till they drop the big curtain"

 

 

I think Bruce may have summed up the Objectivist/Subjectivist debate. He must be an Audiophile....

 

"Depends on what you look at obviously

But even more it depends on the way that you see"

[One and a half]

6 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

You are probably going to get objections from people demanding organic or vegan offerings to throw instead.

 

Speaking of objections..... ‘Put all your eggs in one basket’ and nine other phrases that could go out of fashion as veganism grows'

[Allan F]

12 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

I think Bruce may have summed up the Objectivist/Subjectivist debate. He must be an Audiophile....

 

"Depends on what you look at obviously

But even more it depends on the way that you see"

 

Bob Dylan may have captured the divide between the two groups with imagery in Positively 4th Street:

 

I wish that for just one time you could stand inside my shoes
And just for that one moment I could be you
Yes, I wish that for just one time you could stand inside my shoes
Then you'd know what a drag it is to see you

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, Jud said:

...  it seems to have devolved somewhat ...

 

Ya think?  

[vmartell22]

"Nobody is saying send your last $10,000 to an online preacher. "

 

4 hours ago, esldude said:

So if it were $2000 it's okay? Online preachers are believers too.

 

haha - well  change "online preacher" (here and in Chris' post) to "Nordost" and it is something that is suggested all the time and that it tends to blow up threads!

(Apologies - I am dropping in the middle of the thread and without reading the whole thing but the two posts made me think of that and I HAD to post myself!)

 

v

[manisandher]

Let's try again...

 

13 hours ago, crenca said:

Your [sic] ill equipped to do the hard work (both thought and practical) to investigate the "why" of these results.

 

Where's your evidence for this claim?

[mansr]

3 hours ago, esldude said:

We need a Wall.  A big beautiful huge wall to keep heathens and virgins out.

And make Amir pay for it.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

14 hours ago, crenca said:

As an Audiophile subjectivist however, your result is evidence of the validity of subjectivism.

 

57 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

14 hours ago, crenca said:

Your [sic] ill equipped to do the hard work (both thought and practical) to investigate the "why" of these results.

 

Where's your evidence for this claim?

 

Mani, this is nothing more than a baseless personal attack on yourself. he talks a lot of evidence which I predict he will not deliver, instead pressing his views on 'world order' and audiophiledom.....

[PeterSt]

40 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

Mani, this is nothing more than a baseless personal attack on yourself.

 

I am not a moderator in here but I do feel responsible for this subject popping up again (I started talking about it).

Can we please now drop it again ? Thanks.

 

With apologies of some kind.

[mansr]

7 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I think people are smart enough to read the totality fo replies or lack of replies and come to a conclusion.

How are they supposed to do this if only one kind of reply is permitted?

 

7 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Nobody is saying send your last $10,000 to an online preacher. 

Perhaps not, but people asking for advice in improving their sound on a budget of $1000 or so are regularly told to spend the bulk of it on exotic power cables, fuses, or other dubious pursuits. That's not what I consider helpful. Even if those items do make a difference, surely you agree they should not be the top priority.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

5 minutes ago, mansr said:

How are they supposed to do this if only one kind of reply is permitted?

 

Who said only one kind of reply is permitted?

 

5 minutes ago, mansr said:

Perhaps not, but people asking for advice in improving their sound on a budget of $1000 or so are regularly told to spend the bulk of it on exotic power cables, fuses, or other dubious pursuits. That's not what I consider helpful. Even if those items do make a difference, surely you agree they should not be the top priority.

 

With great respect to CC it doesn't matter what he thinks is top priority. What matters is what you think is top priority expressed in a way consistent with the rules and hopefully IMO with all of us , me included, trying not to offend.

[mansr]

1 hour ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

Who said only one kind of reply is permitted?

You, for instance.

[PeterSt]

57 minutes ago, mansr said:

9 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I think people are smart enough to read the totality fo replies or lack of replies and come to a conclusion.

How are they supposed to do this if only one kind of reply is permitted?

 

That would indeed be nonsensical. But it could be your own conclusion that only one kind of reply is permitted (I am not sure and could have missed it). The mere important, however, would be that what Chris suggested as "a" solution (see quote) can not lead to a conclusion with sense. Oh, it would be OK for you and it would be fine for me, but it is not about us. Those who it is about ask for "education" of some sort and that won't happen easily in the way it currently goes. Or maybe it *is* possible but then there's more adultry (?) required from us than the age we bear.

 

I still think that Coax cable thread is a superb example because of your initial response in that thread. It really (and IMO) contained all the context required. It were others though providing the hype-up, and exactly that demands for some moderation (again IMO).

 

I also think it is outrageously difficult to even apply correct moderation because it would require maybe more knowledge than feasible. And suddenly you are suitable for that (now laugh).

[Taz777]

Just out of interest, where would someone who uses audio electronics equipment and technology as a means to an end fit in? Once they've reached their 'end game'* all they care about is the songs and music produced by the artists that they follow and don't even give their HiFi equipment a second thought after that point?

 

I'd say it has to be somewhere in between, leaning possibly more towards the subjective spectrum.

 

* By 'end game' I mean a sound that reaches their ears via speakers or headphones that they really like and elicits an emotional response within them.

[PeterSt]

9 minutes ago, Taz777 said:

Just out of interest, where would someone who uses audio electronics equipment and technology as a means to an end fit in? Once they've reached their 'end game'* all they care about is the songs and music produced by the artists that they follow and don't even give their HiFi equipment a second thought after that point?

 

Nice subject for a new thread.

 

But yes, I saw you stipulating in that direction already (other thread). All I like to say is that it will save you a lot of money in the end.

However, a real audiophile won't recognize much of that. He always eagerly watches the mail for his/her new toy to arrive ...

 

A new thread really is better and I must say it could bring a fresh look on a subject which isn't talked through often. It would also perfectly fit the bill of "Objectivists" vs. "Subjectivists", which you are more aware of by now than you asked for. Haha.

Subjectivists should have no voice in that thread. Or at least not profound.

Great subject ...

[jabbr]

43 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

Nice subject for a new thread.

 

But yes, I saw you stipulating in that direction already (other thread). All I like to say is that it will save you a lot of money in the end.

However, a real audiophile won't recognize much of that. He always eagerly watches the mail for his/her new toy to arrive ...

 

Stated like a true vendor  ?

 

Quote

 

A new thread really is better and I must say it could bring a fresh look on a subject which isn't talked through often. It would also perfectly fit the bill of "Objectivists" vs. "Subjectivists", which you are more aware of by now than you asked for. Haha.

Subjectivists should have no voice in that thread. Or at least not profound.

Great subject ...

 

Interesting, so you are suggesting that Subjectivists aren't interested in the bottom line sound output? See, that further exposes what I see as a S/O distinction that just doesn't hold up. If a Subjectivist is concerned only with the sound, and an Objectivist with measurements, then an Objectivist would upgrade to a system with better "specs", and a Subjectivist would go about listening to music...

 

The distinction here is not S/O rather folks who want to listen to good music vs folks who want to tweak. i.e. Musicophile vs Tweakophile ?

[esldude]

7 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Any particular reason for the virgins? 

For their own protection.