marce Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 16 hours ago, sandyk said: So now you can measure not only the width of the soundstage, the depth of the soundstage, both behind the speakers AND the listening position , as well as the HEIGHT of the soundstage where this element is present, such as in a well recorded Thunder Storm ? You perceive sound stage in your head from the 2 channel noise coming out of your speakers!!! spin33, Audiophile Neuroscience and Allan F 1 2 Link to comment
Popular Post Richard Dale Posted January 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 hours ago, esldude said: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/a-bit-about-your-host.1906/ Peter's post is a crock. Amir has an EE at least. I don't know what say JA has. JA was a liberal arts major. Why does JA's degree matter if he got it over 40 years ago? He seems to do a very competent job with measurements for reviews in Stereophile. PeterSt, sandyk and Teresa 2 1 System (i): Stack Audio Link > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Hana SL/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > PrimaLuna Evo 100 amp > Klipsch RP-600M/REL T5x subs System (ii): Allo USB Signature > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > APPJ EL34 > Tandy LX5/REL Tzero v3 subs System (iii) KEF LS50W/KEF R400b subs Link to comment
Blake Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I think this article may resolve the objectivist/subjectivist wars: https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/building-a-new-system/ discuss.... Teresa 1 Speaker Room: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Pacific 2 | Viva Linea | Constellation Inspiration Stereo 1.0 | FinkTeam Kim | Revel subs Office Headphone System: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Golden Gate 3 | Viva Egoista | Abyss AB1266 Phi TC Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted January 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2019 14 minutes ago, Richard Dale said: Why does JA's degree matter if he got it over 40 years ago? He seems to do a very competent job with measurements for reviews in Stereophile. I agree JA does a good job with measures. But to impugn the ability of someone doing measures who is a degreed electrical engineer and spent most of their career in computer and electronics industries is a bit much. Plus the person Peter doesn't like seems to do just fine with non controversial types of measures. I've been able to do the same measures for myself on one piece of gear. Results were pretty much identical. But I was reading meters not feelings. wgscott, Sal1950, Shadders and 1 other 3 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted January 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2019 20 minutes ago, Blake said: I think this article may resolve the objectivist/subjectivist wars: https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/building-a-new-system/ discuss.... Yes how quaint. A cable designer starting a new cable company saying cables are the place to start system building. I'd expect nothing better from POS feedback. And he is a member of the LAOC audio society that kicked out Mark Waldrep for writing about cable demos that demonstrate physical impossibilities unless they were fraudulent. Even though Dr. Waldrep named no names or companies. I guess Dr. Waldrep's credentials are suspect too. wgscott, Sal1950 and Shadders 2 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Sal1950 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 34 minutes ago, Blake said: I think this article may resolve the objectivist/subjectivist wars: Your kidding right, this is what you present for evidence? Edit, esldude just posted what I was about to type here. +1 "The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?" Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted January 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, esldude said: I agree JA does a good job with measures. But to impugn the ability of someone doing measures who is a degreed electrical engineer and spent most of their career in computer and electronics industries is a bit much. Plus the person Peter doesn't like seems to do just fine with non controversial types of measures. I've been able to do the same measures for myself on one piece of gear. Results were pretty much identical. But I was reading meters not feelings. Amir certainly has his faults, which I shan't go into, but I see no issues with the way he conducts his measurements. Anyone who deems them flawed need only present their own test results in refutation or, at minimum, explain what they perceive the problem to be. The same goes for JA. Who has what degree is neither here nor there. wgscott, The Computer Audiophile, Jud and 5 others 6 2 Link to comment
89reksal Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Chris, I'd like to request this thread be closed. It's serving no purpose other than a playground for the worst of CA/AS which is the last thing I want as the OP. Let them start their own thread. Link to comment
phosphorein Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 3 hours ago, esldude said: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/a-bit-about-your-host.1906/ Peter's post is a crock. Amir has an EE at least. I don't know what say JA has. JA was a liberal arts major. I think JA read Chemistry (Bristol?). That is definitely a sufficient background and I generally have no problems with his measurements. Link to comment
Hugo9000 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 The opinion piece by the former XLO guy is actually okay in my own opinion. He doesn't name names of guilty parties/companies, but he is right about there being many speaker and cable "designers" who have no expertise and just slap things together, as opposed to someone trying to make something like an amplifier while having no knowledge or experience. For every KEF or JBL, there are a hundred Zu or fake-Harbeth-looking things with a few off-the-shelf parts thrown in it, or oddball fugly things with 8 tweeters and cheesy names and bs reasons listed as the "science" behind it, or whatever. Same with cables, look at all the monstrosities out there that are designed as tone controls because of lack of knowledge of electrical properties or that have been "engineered" to have abnormally high capacitance to interact in a certain way with a system, rather than being engineered to have the least impact on the widest range of gear. Cables are an "easy" purchase if you know that whatever is underneath the sheathing is something engineered by Mogami/Belden/similar and it is suitable for the intended application. Mystery cables, where we are just supposed to trust them that the design is even electrically adequate (no details on the build geometry let alone any measurements of the basic LCR characteristics on many "boutique" cables with astronomical prices, for example), are something altogether different. Quote The first thing to know about any system is that, of all of the components going into it, the two least likely to have been designed by an expert are the speakers and the cables: Anyone at all, with any level of knowledge at all, can take any driver at all or any combination of drivers; put them into any box, or no box at all, with any crossover or no crossover at all; wire it together and hook it up to an amplifier and a signal source, and it will produce sound, and he will be able to declare himself a speaker designer. https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/building-a-new-system/ His points seem like common sense to me. But perhaps that will prove to be his own marketing angle for his new company: appear reasonable and make minimal subjective claims to take over a niche that seems to be occupied mostly by Blue Jeans cable (their prices seem inflated to me for what you get, but at least they make no bs arguments about their products. I'll admit I never looked at how much the connectors they use cost, so perhaps the prices are reasonable after all?). 请教别人一次是5分钟的傻子,从不请教别人是一辈子的傻子 Link to comment
Popular Post Blake Posted January 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2019 43 minutes ago, Sal1950 said: Your kidding right, this is what you present for evidence? Edit, esldude just posted what I was about to type here. +1 It was a joke Sal...... Sal1950 and esldude 1 1 Speaker Room: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Pacific 2 | Viva Linea | Constellation Inspiration Stereo 1.0 | FinkTeam Kim | Revel subs Office Headphone System: Lumin U1X | Lampizator Golden Gate 3 | Viva Egoista | Abyss AB1266 Phi TC Link to comment
Richard Dale Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 hour ago, esldude said: I agree JA does a good job with measures. But to impugn the ability of someone doing measures who is a degreed electrical engineer and spent most of their career in computer and electronics industries is a bit much. Plus the person Peter doesn't like seems to do just fine with non controversial types of measures. I've been able to do the same measures for myself on one piece of gear. Results were pretty much identical. But I was reading meters not feelings. Fair enough, although I don't see what JA and his 'liberal arts degree' have got to do with your post about Amir and PeterSt's differences. Specifically I find it a bit tedious when people bang on about how unscientific people with these 'liberal arts degrees' are. If it isn't a problem for JA, it probably isn't a problem for other people either. Have we even checked what degree JA has, not that I think it matters? EDIT: JA got a BSc in science, and his first job after college was to do with chemistry. He spent a lot of time playing bass in various bands too. Teresa 1 System (i): Stack Audio Link > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Hana SL/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > PrimaLuna Evo 100 amp > Klipsch RP-600M/REL T5x subs System (ii): Allo USB Signature > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > APPJ EL34 > Tandy LX5/REL Tzero v3 subs System (iii) KEF LS50W/KEF R400b subs Link to comment
Rt66indierock Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, lasker98 said: Chris, I'd like to request this thread be closed. It's serving no purpose other than a playground for the worst of CA/SA which is the last thing I want as the OP. Let them start their own thread. I think it serving a purpose where the thread is now. I didn't even mind SuperDad questioning whether I was affiliated in the industry. Whatever witch hunt he is on is fine with me but I certainly prefer a good shill hunt. Link to comment
wgscott Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 24 minutes ago, lasker98 said: Chris, I'd like to request this thread be closed. It's serving no purpose other than a playground for the worst of CA/AS which is the last thing I want as the OP. Let them start their own thread. Did you honestly expect this to be anything other than a troll-thread when you titled and started it? Ralf11 and RickyV 1 1 Link to comment
Shadders Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Hi, If you examine stereophile link as follows : https://www.stereophile.com/content/mbl-corona-c15-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements This amplifier uses the UcD700HG where the specification states the output impedance at <1kHz is 20milliohms, whereas the stereophile measurements indicate 100milliohms. At the following stereophile link : https://www.stereophile.com/content/theta-digital-prometheus-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements This amplifier uses the NC1200 which has a max output impedance of 2milliohms (from a web forum, datasheet is not available to public) whereas the stereophile measurements are 110millohms. Does anyone know why the datasheets state figures either 5x or 55x lower than the stereophile measurements ? As per above, there seems to be some discrepancy here. It is possible that the specification sheet is the switching node output before the output filter. Regards, Shadders. Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 15 minutes ago, Richard Dale said: He spent a lot of time playing bass in various bands too. That completely disqualifies JA, as no self-respecting geek will ever be a part of something nearly as cool as a band. esldude 1 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
Shadders Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, pkane2001 said: That completely disqualifies JA, as no self-respecting geek will ever be a part of something nearly as cool as a band. What about brass bands. Link to comment
Richard Dale Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Shadders said: What about brass bands. Barbershop quartets? System (i): Stack Audio Link > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodec/SME V/Hana SL/EAT E-Glo Petit/Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > PrimaLuna Evo 100 amp > Klipsch RP-600M/REL T5x subs System (ii): Allo USB Signature > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > APPJ EL34 > Tandy LX5/REL Tzero v3 subs System (iii) KEF LS50W/KEF R400b subs Link to comment
Popular Post 89reksal Posted January 3, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, wgscott said: Did you honestly expect this to be anything other than a troll-thread when you titled and started it? I honestly did. Did you read the OP? Did you understand the OP? Anything you'd like clarified? The last thing it was meant to be was an us against them thread. I thought I made it pretty clear that I was trying to show most are much more similar than different. Apparently I was wrong, hence my request to Chris. RickyV, christopher3393, PeterSt and 4 others 5 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted January 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2019 27 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said: to take over a niche that seems to be occupied mostly by Blue Jeans cable (their prices seem inflated to me for what you get, but at least they make no bs arguments about their products. I'll admit I never looked at how much the connectors they use cost, so perhaps the prices are reasonable after all?). I think their prices are reasonable for what you get: custom, well made cables (the make them per order, cut to length,etc. acc'd to your request) that are individually tested to meet spec and the test results are included with your order. Almost no one else does this. Sal1950 and Hugo9000 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
esldude Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 28 minutes ago, Richard Dale said: Fair enough, although I don't see what JA and his 'liberal arts degree' have got to do with your post about Amir and PeterSt's differences. Specifically I find it a bit tedious when people bang on about how unscientific people with these 'liberal arts degrees' are. If it isn't a problem for JA, it probably isn't a problem for other people either. Have we even checked what degree JA has, not that I think it matters? EDIT: JA got a BSc in science, and his first job after college was to do with chemistry. He spent a lot of time playing bass in various bands too. Actually that was the point about JA. He does a good job. I thought I remembered him saying he started his first job as a copy editor. In any case it made no sense to act as if an EE was clueless and bumbling in basic testing. As even beyond that the testing is there to see. If he were a moonlighting taxi driver or a poet it would make no difference. Peter was peddling misinformation because he doesn't agree with the fellow's motivations. Hugo9000 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted January 3, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2019 Per the OPs request, and agreement by me that this thread really is far off the rails, I'm going to lock this one up. Nobody is prohibited from opening other threads to discuss the individual topics above. 89reksal and Allan F 2 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
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