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Objectivists/Subjectivists


89reksal

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52 minutes ago, wgscott said:

I am beginning to think people keep arguing about this because nothing interesting has happened in this hobby (or whatever you want to call it) in a fairly long time.  (MQA was a nice try, but ...)

 

add Gallium - see what happens

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4 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:
16 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Those who it is about ask for "education" of some sort and that won't happen easily in the way it currently goes. Or maybe it *is* possible but then there's more adultry (?) required from us than the age we bear.

 

Peter, adultry [sic] hmm acting like adults for sure, not sure about adultery tho 9_9, maybe ?

 

OK, this was one of the more rare occasions that I made up a word, did not look it up and put a (?) instead. Didn't go well.

I will rephrase:

 

Those who it is about ask for "education" of some sort and that won't happen easily in the way it currently goes. Or maybe it *is* possible but then there's more adultery required from us than than the age we bear.

 

Of course there's the risk that those who try won't be allowed to come back, but at least they will then have the education to post in this forum with more sense. More life experience. What still bugs me is that age. And looking alone won't help much. It even is so that when you report about this as an old fossil - like watching a woman in the airplane breastfeeding - you risk a ban.

So I don't know.

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, diecaster said:

If the forum members accept all subjective opinions, no matter how illogical, we, as a group, lose all credibility as audio enthusiasts. If our positions and opinions cannot withstand inquiry, what good are they? If you say all opinions and positions posted here are valid no matter what, the opinions and positions posted here cannot be trusted to contain real and useful information.

 

Very well put. It contains so many contradictions that it boggles the mind. And the more true it is, likely for that very reason.

 

Still it can be done, if first we were "educated" to express genuine experience and not just spout something because of spouting. And I suppose we all know of the example that people exist who really do so. And if they could be recognized and numbed so what remains are true experiences, I would believe your hockey pucks unprecedented. I really would and everybody would. The community would then be like that. It's first thought.

And next I would tell the community that putting a knot in the loudspeaker cable makes a difference for the better. Many will try and half may experience that it is so. The other half will not and blame himself for it for one or the other reason. Still, the half where it works is happy and is happy to be in this hobby. The other half is also happy and will try a next thing an other day.

It would be a kind of a different world.

 

PS: This really can work when it is done from the ground up. No heated discussions, though. But more fruitful, net.

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31 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

And next I would tell the community that putting a knot in the loudspeaker cable makes a difference for the better.

 

 Does getting your knickers in a knot make a difference for the better too ?9_9

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Does getting your knickers in a knot make a difference for the better too ?9_9

 

Depending on where it's done ... um ... No.

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On 12/28/2018 at 12:35 PM, lasker98 said:

I have no idea about your background but do you honestly believe that everything relating to the science of electronics is already known? Nothing more to be learned?

When it comes to audio electronics, yes actually, I think we’ve pretty much got it nailed with digital and amplification. At the very least, if someone claims audible, night-and day, jaw-dropping, palpable differences in audio gear, we are able to easily show, objectively, why that is the case. 

 

If two different amplifiers have identical power output, frequency responses, distortion characteristics and reaction to load, do you think those two amplifiers will sound exactly the same? If not, exactly what mechanism do you propose to explain the difference in sound? 

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46 minutes ago, hineni said:

If two different amplifiers have identical power output, frequency responses, distortion characteristics and reaction to load, do you think those two amplifiers will sound exactly the same? If not, exactly what mechanism do you propose to explain the difference in sound? 

 

 You neglected to mention channel separation among other things like Input impedance.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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3 hours ago, diecaster said:

If the forum members accept all subjective opinions, no matter how illogical, we, as a group, lose all credibility as audio enthusiasts. If our positions and opinions cannot withstand inquiry, what good are they? If you say all opinions and positions posted here are valid no matter what, the opinions and positions posted here cannot be trusted to contain real and useful information.

 

The problem with the above is that the underlying premise is flawed. No one is suggesting that all "forum members accept all subjective opinions, no matter what" and no one is saying that "all opinions and positions here are valid no matter what". As to the question of "what good are they?" if our positions and opinions cannot withstand inquiry, that begs the question of what one is looking to gain from the forum.

 

Many of us are interested in the subjective experiences/opinions of others as a basis for considering what we may want to try to improve our own systems. Withstanding objective inquiry simply plays little or no role in this context, notwithstanding the importance of such inquiries to skeptics. Over time, individuals learn from experience whose opinions they can trust as credible.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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If I say something like the below statement, does this make me an objectivist, or a bad subjectivist? 

 

"But of course let's not rule out expectation bias. That can make for real differences in the active mind of an audiophile. When they give placebo's to patients in hospitals, the list of side effects is no shorter than is experienced with actual medications. So take comfort in the fact that this phenomenon isn't something only limited to audiophiles." 

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7 minutes ago, Music Enthusiast said:

If I say something like the below statement, does this make me an objectivist, or a bad subjectivist? 

 

"But of course let's not rule out expectation bias. That can make for real differences in the active mind of an audiophile. When they give placebo's to patients in hospitals, the list of side effects is no shorter than is experienced with actual medications. So take comfort in the fact that this phenomenon isn't something only limited to audiophiles." 

 

Expectation bias applies to us all. The quoted statement has an undercurrent of sarcasm suggesting its anti subjectivist.

Sound Minds Mind Sound

 

 

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1 minute ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Expectation bias applies to us all. The quoted statement has an undercurrent of sarcasm suggesting its anti subjectivist.

Okay here's the entire statement including the first half:

 

"I happen to own a streamer with a fibre optic Ethernet input. And I can't for the life of me hear a single bit of difference between any components I swap upstream of the streamer. Switches, servers, you name it. And it's not because I'm hard of hearing. I could clearly hear the difference between switches, servers, and the supplies that power them when I used to use a streamer that has copper Ethernet inputs. 

 

And I can imagine the fibre implementation on the Opticalrendu is at least as good. The only thing I can see affecting a setup with an opticalRendu is the supply powering it, and the miniGBIC module.Well that and if it's receiving enough throughput from the network setup. If not dropouts will be experienced.

 

 But of course let's not rule out expectation bias. That can make for real differences in the active mind of an audiophile. When they give placebo's to patients in hospitals, the list of side effects is no shorter than is experienced with actual medications. So take comfort in the fact that this phenomenon isn't something only limited to audiophiles."

 

Is the person who said this an objectivist, or subjectivist?

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Music Enthusiast said:

Even though the average age is around 60.

 

Are we that old already ?

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Just now, Music Enthusiast said:

I think the small group of 40 somethings pulls the average down a bit.

 

So I am even older ?!?

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1 hour ago, hineni said:

I think we’ve pretty much got it nailed with digital and amplification.

 

Huh ?

Anyway, pension is my prospect !

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