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lasker98

Objectivists/Subjectivists

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I've on several occasions posted files for listeners to try and to show if they could hear a difference.  I get very little response on those. So I've not bothered to do more. Most of the response is from subjective oriented listeners wishing to derail the thread. Funny how that happens when people get to listen.

 

In one I was accused of only posting such files when I knew no one could hear the difference. In that particular one I'd tested myself and could pick the differences blind.  I was accused of not having good hearing too. The few who took part couldn't hear the difference. Instead of asking me how I did it most complained in all manner of ways about how blind listening didn't work. Curious all the way round.

 

So what suggestions do you have for bridging the Gap?


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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22 minutes ago, esldude said:

There shouldn't be some of the debates about the science behind electronics that there are.

I have no idea about your background but do you honestly believe that everything relating to the science of electronics is already known? Nothing more to be learned?

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1 hour ago, lasker98 said:

On the other hand, there's many, many threads started by people posting their listening impressions.

 

Of course.  This is subjectivised audiophiledom.  Art and wine, impressionistic, subjective testimonials can and will go on forever.  People like to affirm their feelings, emotions, and endlessly opine in a "I added fill_in_the_blank, or I reversed my digital cable, and a 1000 veils were lifted" sort of way.  This emotionalism is tightly tied to the consumerism of Audiophiledom, and thus is promoted by EVERYONE on all sides of the industry.  The @The Computer Audiophileto his credit, allows an open forum where the very real cons of this culture can be discussed freely, while at the same time allowing these eternal "listening impressions" threads as well such as the austinpop's  "A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming" thread.  I have not posted in that thread and would not, because anything but radical subjectivism has been explicitly "moderated" away. 

 

 

1 hour ago, lasker98 said:

It's these threads that perceived problems arise from. Depending on the topic or context, more or less of the objectivist camp becomes involved. In the worst cases, the objectivists actually "take over" the thread

 

This he said, she said is tiring.  On the most recent digital cable thread which prompted @The Computer Audiophilepoll for moderation, it was subjectist sandyk's hounding of mansr no nonsense advice, which he does on most threads, that prompted the debate.  True, objectivists continued the debate and did not settle for a subjectist "take over" of the thread.  

 

In the end, what sort of forum is Chris going to have?  OP moderation?  Then many (most?) threads will be either/or.  Moderation?  Some have suggested austinpop, but he is a radical subjectivist who "moderates" what has to be the largest subjectivist shows here at CA - would he, could he, moderate "fairly"?

 

None of this civility stuff is going well - neither this thread or for the wider CA...


Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

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4 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Implicit in your post is the presumption that the subjectivist view is somehow better, that the objectivists are here only to pick a fight with the poor subjectivists. That automatic classification into us and them, that 'they' are the enemy is what causes a lot of the conflict here, IMHO.

I don't think it's "implicit". I think it can easily be taken that way, which really wasn't my intent. I don't believe I did classify into us and them. I was hoping to show there's a lot of common ground but at the extremes that common ground is gone and that's where the issues arise.

 

If you carefully re-read my initial post and then your response, I hope you would see how much of your own interpretation you put into what I wrote. "They", the enemy, poor subjectivists, pick a fight. Those are your words, not mine.

 

I am definitely not trying to pick a fight, please believe that.

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2 minutes ago, crenca said:

None of this civility stuff is going well - neither this thread or for the wider CA...

 

 Maybe a lot of us don't really understand what civility is. There's a lot of common ground here. Why do some have to focus on the extremes instead of that common ground?

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1 minute ago, Rt66indierock said:

We are a lot further along than high end audio marketing would have you think

 I really don't believe those posting their own experiences are doing high end marketing.

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1 minute ago, pkane2001 said:

 

That's how I interpreted the following:

 

 

I'm disappointed and surprised that's what you took from that. I don't know what else to say.

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1 minute ago, wgscott said:

Because others use "uncivil" as a term of dismissal, and "civility" as something to hide behind, while declaring their safe-space.

I have to say I don't get the point you're making. I see that as a totally different topic but that's only me. Maybe it's more related than I realize.

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