MQA is Vaporware

[4est]

1 hour ago, KeenObserver said:

Harley certainly made himself a laughing stock with his over the top gushing about MQA and Stereophile is following down the same path.

I'll be glad when MQA is dead and buried and we don't have to listen to the shills anymore.

Oh, they will come up with something else. Their jobs depend on it...

[randyhat]

I've been trying out Qobuz with a one month beta trial.  I also have Tidal.  Both are played through a roon nucleus through a Lumin T-1 doc/streamer.  This has given me an opportunity to compare MQA to Qobuz hi-res.  In terms of sound quality I find the MQA and hi-res Qobuz files to be virtually indistinguishable.  Anyone else do this comparison?  I prepared to expect the hi-res versions to sound better...and in some cases they do.  But in other cases I think the MQA sounds better.  In the majority of comparisons they pretty much sound the same to me.

[Jud]

9 minutes ago, randyhat said:

I've been trying out Qobuz with a one month beta trial.  I also have Tidal.  Both are played through a roon nucleus through a Lumin T-1 doc/streamer.  This has given me an opportunity to compare MQA to Qobuz hi-res.  In terms of sound quality I find the MQA and hi-res Qobuz files to be virtually indistinguishable.  Anyone else do this comparison?  I prepared to expect the hi-res versions to sound better...and in some cases they do.  But in other cases I think the MQA sounds better.  In the majority of comparisons they pretty much sound the same to me.

 

I tended to prefer the "straight" stuff to MQA, and Qobuz to MQA in general.  But not at all surprising that listening experiences vary.

 

In the cases where I preferred MQA, it was very evident the mastering was different (for example, instruments in different locations).

[Confused]

10 hours ago, Confused said:

Arguably, this is perhaps not the the sensible for thread for promoting MQA enabled products if you are hoping for a positive outcome?

2

Sorry, I screwed up the editing of the above post when half asleep typing on my iPad last night.  What I mean to say was "Arguably, this is perhaps not the most sensible thread to chose for promoting MQA enabled products if you are hoping for a positive outcome?

 

I guess I have just deblurred my own typing?  Epic!

[james45974]

interesting editorial at Enjoy The Music .com

 

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0219/Lossless_Streaming_Music_Welcome_To_20_Years_Ago.htm

[mcgillroy]

Oh wow - seems like MQA pissed off enough people that an editor by one of the bigger sites comes out and raises the middle-finger to them.

 

Fun read indeed!

[FredericV]

3 hours ago, james45974 said:

interesting editorial at Enjoy The Music .com

 

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0219/Lossless_Streaming_Music_Welcome_To_20_Years_Ago.htm

 

Quote

Sad that Meridian, I mean that three letter acronym they spun off, is now pushing lossy compressed music when there's no need for it.

;)

[mansr]

4 hours ago, james45974 said:

interesting editorial at Enjoy The Music .com

 

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0219/Lossless_Streaming_Music_Welcome_To_20_Years_Ago.htm

Bravo! What took them so long?

 

In other news, the 2L label has stopped distributing non-MQA 16/44 files. I guess all the journalists sycophants telling us this would of course never happen were wrong after all.

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, mansr said:

In other news, the 2L label has stopped distributing non-MQA 16/44 files. I guess all the journalists sycophants telling us this would of course never happen were wrong after all.

Paging @Lee Scoggins. Need we say I told you so?

[Rt66indierock]

7 hours ago, james45974 said:

interesting editorial at Enjoy The Music .com

 

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0219/Lossless_Streaming_Music_Welcome_To_20_Years_Ago.htm

 

It certainly checked off a few boxes on my list of issues and problems MQA causes.

[Lee Scoggins]

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Paging @Lee Scoggins. Need we say I told you so?

 

Is this a big deal?  2L has historically been a label like Channel Classics that attracts hirez fans globally.  Is losing a form of redbook an issue?  I have lots of 2L recordings from Morten Lindberg and redbook from them has never even crossed my mind.  Maybe Morten found that they weren't selling.

[Kal Rubinson]

2 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 I have lots of 2L recordings from Morten Lindberg and redbook from them has never even crossed my mind.  

Agreed.  OTOH, while I have only multichannel recordings from 2L and, probably, would never have acquired any had they been only CDs, there are many among them that I love and would have missed.

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

Is this a big deal?  2L has historically been a label like Channel Classics that attracts hirez fans globally.  Is losing a form of redbook an issue?  I have lots of 2L recordings from Morten Lindberg and redbook from them has never even crossed my mind.  Maybe Morten found that they weren't selling.

 

There is no such thing as “a form of redbook.” There is only 1 redbook standard. We’ve lost redbook on a single service. It isn’t possible to stream non-MQA anything from 2L on Qobuz. 

 

Sugarcoat it all you want, most of us don’t purchase 2L recordings. Now many are left with MQA or nothing. 

 

As the lossless audio dominos fall, I can’t wait to read your latest justification. Your acceptance of lossy mediocrity is quite surprising given your long time interest in this hobby. You even seem like a “straight wire with gain” type of guy, but your support for lossy audio origami just doesn’t make sense to me. 

 

 

[MikeyFresh]

32 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

Is losing a form of redbook an issue?

 

No, losing Rebook is an issue. It's not a form of Redbook, it's Redbook.

 

On a related note, most of us don't consider MQA a form of Redbook, it does not adhere to the Redbook spec/standard, it's lossy.

 

I see that in composing this note that @The Computer Audiophile has already said the same thing as I am. Lee chose not to respond to his initial query and instead answered a question with a question.

 

Lee, the question is if losing Redbook is an issue, and that answer is an emphatic YES.

 

 

[Rt66indierock]

52 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

 

Is this a big deal?  2L has historically been a label like Channel Classics that attracts hirez fans globally.  Is losing a form of redbook an issue?  I have lots of 2L recordings from Morten Lindberg and redbook from them has never even crossed my mind.  Maybe Morten found that they weren't selling.

 

If you do Norwegian things and I do the only 2L recordings I own are 16/44.1. The only MQA files I own or will own are for testing. MQA files are not and will never be part of my music library.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2018

MQA promoters: Choice is a great thing. 

 

2019

MQA Promoters: Choice of either MQA or MQA-CD is a great thing. You don’t need that Redbook anyway. 

[rwdvis]

On 11/14/2018 at 5:17 PM, Lee Scoggins said:

 

Several reviewers have Qobuz subscriptions.  It sounds very good.

 

On 11/15/2018 at 1:13 AM, rwdvis said:

Did you get some insider news of a Qobuz/MQA deal, or somethng?

 

I saw this coming a long time ago.  Unfortunately, no one else picked up on it.

 

[asdf1000]

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

2019

MQA Promoters: Choice of either MQA or MQA-CD is a great thing. You don’t need that Redbook anyway. 

 

One problem is MQA-CD may be marketed as better than current 256kbps/320kpbs lossy streaming (AAC, MP3 etc).

 

And it probably is (slightly) better than those. But that doesn't help us fans of proper RBCD of course. 

 

[Patrick Cleasby]

6 hours ago, rwdvis said:

 

 

I saw this coming a long time ago.  Unfortunately, no one else picked up on it.

 

 

At least for now it's just an accident. It's disappointing that it has not been pushed back. If there's 16/44.1 of the 2L stuff on Tidal, as someone has already said, that is what we should be getting through our streaming subscriptions to a theoretically non-MQA service.

 

Threatening to cease subscription for this one slip on a minor label is a bit extreme though. Let's wait and see if what some of you are predicting actually happens big time...

[firedog]

I just switched my streaming subscription from Tidal to Qobuz. Nothing directly to do with MQA. But as a side effect, I'm happy to vote with my money and not give my support to MQA. Qobuz doesn't seem to be "supporting" MQA-they are giving us full hi-res - they just seem to have been caught unawares by a tricky bit of marketing by 2L.

 

@Lee Scoggins : why is it a big deal? First, it's deceptive by 2L. Audiophiles who see 16/44.1 believe they are getting a standard Redbook file. MQA isn't that, and it also isn't a full 16/44.1 file. Even Qobuz wasn't aware 2L had sent them "MQA-CD" (itself a deceptive term) instead of actual Redbook.
Second, ever since MQA hit the market, many of us have said that one of the reasons we don't want it to succeed is that the time would come when only MQA versions of albums would be available. MQA, you, and the other MQA fanboy/apologists told us this wouldn't happen. MQA means more choice...blah, blah. This deceptive move by 2L shows us that we probably were right, and can only wait for actual hi-res versions of albums to disappear, and only fake hi-res distributed by MQA to remain.

And please don't tell me again that I should be happy about this b/c MQA sounds so good, is good for the "industry", etc. None of that means anything to me.

[psjug]

36 minutes ago, firedog said:

Even Qobuz wasn't aware 2L had sent them "MQA-CD" (itself a deceptive term) instead of actual Redbook.

Consumers should adopt our own terminology.  Maybe MQA-13 instead of MQA-CD since it only has about 13 bits resolution.

[The Computer Audiophile]

25 minutes ago, psjug said:

Consumers should adopt our own terminology.  Maybe MQA-13 instead of MQA-CD since it only has about 13 bits resolution.

Consumers should also call things what they are such as Lossy MQA and Lossy MQA-CD-13. Let's get rid of the ambiguity and help people understand what they are getting and talking about. 

[Lee Scoggins]

12 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

There is no such thing as “a form of redbook.” There is only 1 redbook standard. We’ve lost redbook on a single service. It isn’t possible to stream non-MQA anything from 2L on Qobuz. 

 

Sugarcoat it all you want, most of us don’t purchase 2L recordings. Now many are left with MQA or nothing. 

 

As the lossless audio dominos fall, I can’t wait to read your latest justification. Your acceptance of lossy mediocrity is quite surprising given your long time interest in this hobby. You even seem like a “straight wire with gain” type of guy, but your support for lossy audio origami just doesn’t make sense to me. 

 

 

 

So I reached out to Morten and learned a few things. He messaged the following:

 

Quote

For two years now we have distributed MQA16 in WAV 16-44 to all services limited to CD-quality like Spotify, Apple, and low-tier Qobuz, simply because it sounds way better than regular RedBook. For true HiRes download and streaming services we provide both MQA24 and straight PCM up to and including our DXD source without MQA. I believe in full transparency and for our customers to make their own choice with premium subscriptions.

 

So I think Morten just feels MQA files of 16/44 are better for his customers.  Everything else seems to be available without MQA.  This seems a reasonable position to me.

 

Morten goes on to say that 2L uses MQA in their 16/44 process. So it seems it was a matter of offering customers better sound quality, not about restricting customer choice.

 

And given that you said "most of us don't purchase 2L recordings", it seems this isn't likely to impact many, perhaps not any.  

[Lee Scoggins]

12 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

If you do Norwegian things and I do the only 2L recordings I own are 16/44.1. The only MQA files I own or will own are for testing. MQA files are not and will never be part of my music library.

 

Well you are missing out on some great sound.  Many MQA files on Tidal and elsewhere sound fantastic.

[mansr]

2 minutes ago, Lee Scoggins said:

Morten goes on to say that 2L uses MQA in their 16/44 process. So it seems it was a matter of offering customers better sound quality, not about restricting customer choice.

You really need to look up the words "better" and "choice" in a dictionary.