Article: Amazon Music HD Is Still Lossy

[The Computer Audiophile]

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[seeteeyou]

Smart TVs, Subscription Services Leak Data to Facebook, Google

https://threatpost.com/smart-tvs-leak-data/148482/

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Smart TVs and so-called “over the top” (OTT) platforms are the latest IoT devices found “spying” on users and leaking sensitive data to companies such as Facebook, Amazon, Google and Netflix, according to two separate studies conducted by university researchers as well as independent research done by a Washington Post reporter.

 

Netflix reminds everyone it’s creeping on them

https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/12/netflix-reminds-everyone-its-creeping-on-them/

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Even anonymized data — if that’s truly what it was in this case, as its follow up tweet claims — can be re-identified pretty easily.

 

Now the $64,000 question is whether they're getting paid to invade our privacy while gaining even more profits from such activities

 

https://theconversation.com/amazon-echos-privacy-issues-go-way-beyond-voice-recordings-130016

https://www.businessinsider.com/professional-hackers-amazon-alexa-google-home-horoscope-spying-voice-apps-2019-10

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/09/alexa-are-you-invading-my-privacy-the-dark-side-of-our-voice-assistants

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/amazon-alexa-echo-listening-spy-security-a8865056.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8013225/Former-Amazon-Executive-reveals-switches-Alexa-wants-private-moment.html

 

Pretty Orwellian if you will

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/senators-demand-amazon-stop-spying-drivers-social-media-2020-9

https://medium.com/radical-urbanist/jeff-bezos-can-thank-exploited-workers-for-his-100-billion-d3d5245a6e1b

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3azegw/amazon-is-spying-on-its-workers-in-closed-facebook-groups-internal-reports-show

https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/4/8/21214117/amazon-warehouse-workers-coronavirus-senator-booker-chris-smalls-senators-letter

https://www.forbes.com/sites/angelauyeung/2020/04/24/amnesty-international-calls-on-jeff-bezos-to-address-amazon-employees-concerns-about-working-conditions/

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Smart TVs, Subscription Services Leak Data to Facebook, Google

https://threatpost.com/smart-tvs-leak-data/148482/

 

Netflix reminds everyone it’s creeping on them

https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/12/netflix-reminds-everyone-its-creeping-on-them/

 

Now the $64,000 question is whether they're getting paid to invade our privacy while gaining even more profits from such activities

 

https://theconversation.com/amazon-echos-privacy-issues-go-way-beyond-voice-recordings-130016

https://www.businessinsider.com/professional-hackers-amazon-alexa-google-home-horoscope-spying-voice-apps-2019-10

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/09/alexa-are-you-invading-my-privacy-the-dark-side-of-our-voice-assistants

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/amazon-alexa-echo-listening-spy-security-a8865056.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8013225/Former-Amazon-Executive-reveals-switches-Alexa-wants-private-moment.html

 

Pretty Orwellian if you will

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/senators-demand-amazon-stop-spying-drivers-social-media-2020-9

https://medium.com/radical-urbanist/jeff-bezos-can-thank-exploited-workers-for-his-100-billion-d3d5245a6e1b

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3azegw/amazon-is-spying-on-its-workers-in-closed-facebook-groups-internal-reports-show

https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/4/8/21214117/amazon-warehouse-workers-coronavirus-senator-booker-chris-smalls-senators-letter

https://www.forbes.com/sites/angelauyeung/2020/04/24/amnesty-international-calls-on-jeff-bezos-to-address-amazon-employees-concerns-about-working-conditions/

Is there a tie-in to Amazon Music HD?

[PeterG]

Sad.  But completely predictable.  The worst aspect of this is that Amazon is sucking oxygen and dollars away from Qobuz and other audiophile services.

[jrobbins50]

Speaking of Qobuz, I’ve been a TIDAL user, which offers up HD via MQA. I’ve never tried Qobuz.  Is HD without MQA the reason that you prefer Q over T, Chris?  JCR 

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, jrobbins50 said:

Speaking of Qobuz, I’ve been a TIDAL user, which offers up HD via MQA. I’ve never tried Qobuz.  Is HD without MQA the reason that you prefer Q over T, Chris?  JCR 

There are a few reasons. I like lossless high resolution not lossy MQA. I like the Qobuz interface on mobile 100% more. I like Qobuz recommendations way more. I also like to support Qobuz because Qobuz supports the HiFi community. Ever since Tidal was sold the company stopped coming to HiFi shows and interacting with the HiFi community. Qobuz is the complete opposite. 

[seeteeyou]

22 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Is there a tie-in to Amazon Music HD?

 

I did mention Alexa before but I didn't wanna spell it out here by any means, apparently there's a tie-in by tying Amazon Music HD to their "lovely" Alexa while that should have given away what such intentions were all about

 

https://github.com/alexa-pi/AlexaPi/wiki/Q&A-(FAQ)#does-alexapi-support-amazon-music

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We apologize for the lack of clarity on Amazon Music approvals. Amazon Music is currently limited to Alexa-enabled devices that are approved for commercial distribution and use.

 

IMHO that's why the access to their API might seem to be severely limited when compared to Qobuz / Tidal etc.

 

https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360037587193-Amazon-music-support-roadmap

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Thanks for your feedback. We have had discussions with Amazon about the limited experience in their service due to their Application Programming Interface (API) they provide to us and other third party services.

 

https://forums.developer.amazon.com/questions/58421/amazon-music-api.html

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No, there are no public APIs for Amazon Music, and no plans for that at the moment. Thanks!

 

https://forums.developer.amazon.com/questions/224907/amazon-music-api-1.html

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I know this question was asked several years ago (and the answer was no). However, I haven't seen anything recently (in Google searches). Are there any plans to build out a public API or Android SDK for Amazon Music? I couldn't find any recent questions/answers on this topic.

 

https://support.soundiiz.com/hc/en-us/articles/360009509314-Why-Amazon-Music-is-not-fully-supported-

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Currently, Amazon Music not providing any official API to access to an user Amazon Music account data.

 

https://www.amazonforum.com/s/question/0D54P00007PiDUfSAN/volumio-integration

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Please supply the Volumio dev team with API & application process resources so they can integrate this.

 

---

 

FWIW I took my time to do my homework or else I wouldn't really post that kinda stuff in public

 

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e449c8c3ef68d752f3e70dc/t/5f4cffea23958d79eae1ab23/1598881772432/Amazon_Report_Final.pdf

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/03/harvard-professor-says-surveillance-capitalism-is-undermining-democracy/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tech-companies-surveillance-capitalism_n_5da6f608e4b062bdcb1b93f7

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000fjdz

 

[jabbr]

Even more reason to go with Qobuz! The Qobuz HD stuff sounds great to me essentially remastered.

[bbosler]

Anybody who believed that Amazon launched that huge catalog with all of those files  really  sourced from 24 bit 96K  and 192K files was delusional. 

 

 

 

 

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

not lossy MQA

I assume Bob S. wouldn’t agree to the term lossy when it comes to MQA 😀

I wonder if someone will start a DSD streaming streaming service ?

Or hires multichannel streaming ?

I suppose DRM will exclude SACD as s streaming service ?

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

19 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

I assume Bob S. wouldn’t agree to the term lossy when it comes to MQA

He can use whatever alternative facts he wishes. The fact remains that once a file is in MQA format, it can never be converted back to the original non-MQA format because data is thrown away. That by definition is lossy. 

[DuckToller]

We have seen already Vinyl-Rip streaming, iirc. Chris stumbled on that service some 2 years ago or so. One early adopter reported lots of PBTHAL rips.

[bobbmd]

@The Computer Audiophile I second that Chris and also second that about Qobuz. Did you and anyone else know that you CAN get TIDAL on your smart TV as an app with all your own playlists/favorites etc-allows me to play TIDAL in my family room in surround sound? It is too bad Qobuz doesn't have the same features-- are you reading this @dmackta it would really be nice Dan

bobbmd

[audiobomber]

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if I set Windows 10 to output 24/96 audio and set it to give exclusive access to Amazon Music HD, the music will always be output to my DAC at 24/96. Even though Amazon says the file is 16/44.1 or 24/192 etc.

@The Computer AudiophileI just set my laptop to output 24/192. Generally people see oversampling and upsampling as beneficial. Is there any reason not to do that? 

 

I will likely leave Amazon HD for a few reasons:

1. Their apps are really poor; basic and clumsy

2. No video content. YouTube Music is great for that

3. Chromecast Audio streams Amazon as MP3 only, no HD

4. I can't stream Amazon HD to my better devices (RPi, sMS-200, Playpoint)

 

Unfortunately no Qobuz in Canada.

 

 

[DennisL]

As always, Chris and other contributors to this topic, thanks for this article and follow-ups. I am seriously considering dropping Amazon HD and Music because of these issues. To me, the interface is horrible too.

Off to get the trial offer for Qobuz.

[dmackta]

5 hours ago, bobbmd said:

Did you and anyone else know that you CAN get TIDAL on your smart TV as an app with all your own playlists/favorites etc-allows me to play TIDAL in my family room in surround sound? It is too bad Qobuz doesn't have the same features-- are you reading this @dmackta it would really be nice Dan

bobbmd

Working on it @bobbmd! Hope to have in the 1st half of 2021. 

[UELong]

5 hours ago, audiobomber said:

@The Computer AudiophileI just set my laptop to output 24/192. Generally people see oversampling and upsampling as beneficial. Is there any reason not to do that? 

 

I will likely leave Amazon HD for a few reasons:

1. Their apps are really poor; basic and clumsy

2. No video content. YouTube Music is great for that

3. Chromecast Audio streams Amazon as MP3 only, no HD

4. I can't stream Amazon HD to my better devices (RPi, sMS-200, Playpoint)

 

Unfortunately no Qobuz in Canada.

 

 

It's Canada who gets overlooked, too much.  Would a VPN allow Canadians to get Kobuz?

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, UELong said:

It's Canada who gets overlooked, too much.  Would a VPN allow Canadians to get Kobuz?

It likely depends on other things like billing address but you could try something easy like Tunnel Bear and see. 

[Daren F]

4 minutes ago, UELong said:

It's Canada who gets overlooked, too much.  Would a VPN allow Canadians to get Kobuz?

You can create an account with a VPN but payment will fail with a Canadian credit card or paypal account.

[992Sam]

some time ago, Amazon banned me from being able to do any reviews, and furthermore deleted my prior reviews...  I'd been an Amazon member since 2002 and they did this without any sort of due process and refused to allow me to appeal the ban.. they essentially refused to tell me what I did wrong (and I could not recall anything out of the ordinary) but at the same time they were perfectly happy to keep my membership going so I can spend the thousands of dollars I'd spent thru their stores...

 

Suffice it to say, I've now been a non-amazon user for over two months and I frankly don't miss it... 90% of what they sell is Walmart grade made in China crap anyway... and it's not that hard to find things I do need that are of that level of quality at a Target, Walmart, or Etsy online store...

 

So the fact that they have crappy music streaming now just solidifies my lack of desire to return as a customer. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, 992Sam said:

some time ago, Amazon banned me from being able to do any reviews, and furthermore deleted my prior reviews...  I'd been an Amazon member since 2002 and they did this without any sort of due process and refused to allow me to appeal the ban.. they essentially refused to tell me what I did wrong (and I could not recall anything out of the ordinary) but at the same time they were perfectly happy to keep my membership going so I can spend the thousands of dollars I'd spent thru their stores...

 

Suffice it to say, I've now been a non-amazon user for over two months and I frankly don't miss it... 90% of what they sell is Walmart grade made in China crap anyway... and it's not that hard to find things I do need that are of that level of quality at a Target, Walmart, or Etsy online store...

 

So the fact that they have crappy music streaming now just solidifies my lack of desire to return as a customer. 

That’s what it’s like to do business with them as well. 

[atmfrank]

I am happy to be in complete agreement with Chris' article (shall we say rant?). I took up the free 3 months offer to play around with it: clunky interface, no direct hardware control (sampling rate issues), and dismal search. In short, the same disappointments. 

 

There is one aspect I do appreciate. By commoditizing the "hi-res" streaming audio market, the potential impact and market share of MQA is challenged!  And that's a good thing, but for different reasons. 

 

I also belong to the camp of disagreers of misleading or false claims about the superiority and benefits of "re-mastered" audio. I put those in quotes because most people don't want to, or don't have the time to understand what level of care goes into the re-mastering process. Once you understand about the sources and the processing chain (from recording studio to the human ear), one can make better decisions. In theory, I can simply rip a Redbook CD of my favorite music and run it through an upsampling routine, store the output in FLAC 24/96 and call it "re-mastered hi-res bull BS".

 

Conversely, when you read about Miles Showell's re-mastering project of 8 Rolling Stones albums at Abbey Road Studios (example), you can understand and appreciate what is meant by "re-mastering". But then....I go out and spend $35 on the results in vinyl. 

[jcbenten]

Amazon set up their music service to support their "smart", Alexia speakers...not to cater to a few hanging out in the corner messing around with cables, optical networks, and power supplies.  These little speakers are nifty and sound ok but are meant to be convenience devices stuck in a corner.  Much like Apple, Amazon is not going to mess around to satisfy the few even though Amazon probably has the power and $$ to make the labels create really good masterings of the music.  

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 hours ago, jcbenten said:

Amazon set up their music service to support their "smart", Alexia speakers...not to cater to a few hanging out in the corner messing around with cables, optical networks, and power supplies.  These little speakers are nifty and sound ok but are meant to be convenience devices stuck in a corner.  Much like Apple, Amazon is not going to mess around to satisfy the few even though Amazon probably has the power and $$ to make the labels create really good masterings of the music.  

Agree. 

[asdf1000]

@The Computer Audiophile what's the status of Amazon Music HD on the Bluesound Node 2i ?

 

That's not bitperfect with auto sample rate switching, using it's digital output?