Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[MartinT]

Interesting experiments. In anticipation of my new AfterDark clock arriving, and knowing that the Mini-Circuits splitter will arrive later, I thought I'd check what might happen if I revert the ER to its internal clock and run just the Mutec from the BG7TBL clock.  It would seem that the benefit of running from the external clock is cancelled by breaking the moat (which my setup was doing).

 

So internal clock plus preserved moat sounds approximately the same. Promising.

 

Next, with just a single clock cable, I thought I'd nail down which of the two cables I prefer. For some reason, it's easier to hear the differences now. I definitely prefer Belden 4694R over Canare LV-77S.

 

All good, and I'm just waiting for the AfterDark to arrive. I've ordered a King which is about -9dB quieter than the BG7TBL on phase noise and I'll report on what I hear. No point going straight for the Eva until I know what this step will provide. Always leave something else to look forward to!

[stevebythebay]

On 3/29/2021 at 1:13 AM, Clockmeister said:

Hello Rasputin

 

We have a great many clients with DCS Vivaldi stacks as we affectionate call them and all of our customers use an aftermarket reference clock to 'time' the DCS Vivaldi clock.

 

A fair few use Transparent Opus BNC cables, others swear buy Crystal Cables  Absolute dream 75 Ohm bnc cables.

While other use an self constructed RG45 derivative.

 

 

I’ve been using Shunyata Sigma 75ohm Clock cables from a Cybershaft OP21A-D to both an etherREGEN and a dCS Vivaldi Clock, for over a year now, with success. Do you have any thoughts on adding the filter described in John’s paper into this environment?

[Clockmeister]

Hello Steve

 

Excellent question, I must admit I have not used our CS OP21A for a while, for certain configured systems it really gives a shot in the arm.

The DCS Vivaldi clock responds well to quite a few after-market 10 Mhz references.

None of our clients run CS here in the UK (pretty sure they are many audiophiles that do), the eRegen does really like ultra clean stable power, heat removal and quality cables, (which you have covered).

 

From our experience the DCS seems to prefer a SWF, the CS clock you have from memory doesn't exhibit the frequency spuri-i over 10 Mhz that many of the cheaper clocks do.

 

John's suggestion of using an 11Mhz brick wall filter may well bring benefits to the eRegen, for the DCS  I have not tried this personally so could not comment on this part Steve.

 

What I will do later in the week, is to post some images of an ultra pure 16 bit 10 mhz sine wave and square wave forms from our function generator and then plot the jitter/stand deviations and harmonic content with match pk<>pk voltages so you can see how each method has its pro's and cons.

WE also have the ability to create own digital impulse  and finite re4sponse filters so I could implement a very accurate brick wall filter this would help you understand what is happening with the reference clock signal after a filter is applied

 

 

[stevebythebay]

Thanks. In the absence of any testing or experience with my particular components and setup I’ll wait before taking even the modest  plunge/expense in using such a filter. 

[DarqueKnight]

AfterDark Giesemann Emperor Double Crown Clock Square Wave With Seven Different 75 Ohm Cables

 

Listening evaluations and oscilloscope square wave plots of seven 75-ohm digital cables were done.

 

Figure 1. Top to bottom, arranged in order of decreasing sound quality: 1. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version, 1m, $449), 2. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version, 1.5m, $349), 3. Oyaide DB-510 BNC-BNC (1.3m, $200), 4. Belden 1865A BNC-BNC (1m, $10), 5. Prosig PSG00542 BNC-BNC (2m, $5), 6. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-RCA, with RCA-BNC adapter (2015 version, 1m, $449), 7. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver RCA-RCA, with RCA-BNC adapters (2011 version, 1m, $449).

 

Figure 2. The two cables with RCA terminations and RCA-BNC adapters were the worst sounding. The black-jacketed Revelation Audio Labs BNC-to-RCA cable is identical to the best sounding Revelation Audio Labs BNC-to-BNC cable, except for one end terminated with an RCA connector.

 

Figure 3. Connectors of the five BNC-to-BNC cables. Left to right: 1. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version, 1m, $449), 2. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version, 1.5m, $349), 3. Oyaide DB-510 BNC-BNC (1.3m, $200), 4. Belden 1865A BNC-BNC (1m, $10), 5. Prosig PSG00542 BNC-BNC (2m, $5).

 

The following oscilloscope square wave pulse plots are shown in order of decreasing sound quality. Sound quality detriments were:

 

1. Decrease in the sense of space between sound images.

2. Decrease in the depth of the sound stage.

3. Decrease in the "weight" of sound images.

4. Decrease in the clarity and detail of background percussion instruments.

5. Decrease in the details of chest, throat, lip, and tongue sounds of singers.

6. Decrease in bass detail, speed, and articulation.

7. Decrease in clarity and detail of sound images at the far rear and far sides of the sound stage.

8. Decrease in tactile sensation.

 

On a relative best to worst scale of 100 to 0:

 

Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version): 100.

Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version): 85.

Oyaide DB-510 BNC-BNC (1.3m): 60.

Belden 1865A BNC-BNC (1m): 40.

Prosig PSG00542 BNC-BNC (2m): 30.

Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-RCA, with one RCA-BNC adapter (2015 version): -10.

Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver RCA-RCA, with two RCA-BNC adapters (2011 version, 1m): -30.

 

The two last-place cables are good quality cables, but the RCA-to-BNC adapters did something ugly to their sound. The adapters were purchased from a local electronics supply store.

 

The Oyaide and all of the Revelation Audio Labs (RAL) cables use silver conductors. The 2015 version RAL cables have heavy noise shielding, including a conductive carbon outer jacket shield, and extensive vibration damping.

 

Figure 4. Best sound - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version).

 

Figure 5. Second best sound - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version). This cable distorted (rounded) the square wave so much that the scope interpreted it as a sine wave.

 

Figure 6. Third best sound - Oyaide DB-210 BNC-BNC.

 

Figure 7. Fourth best sound, by a wide margin - Belden 1865A, the cable supplied with the Giesemann EDC clock.

 

Figure 8. Fifth best sound - Prosig PSG00542, the cable supplied with my dCS Puccini word clock.

 

Figure 9. Sixth best sound, by a wide margin - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-RCA (2015 version) with RCA-to-BNC adapter on the receiving end. This was unlistenable.

 

Figure 10. Seventh best sound, by a wide margin - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver RCA-RCA (2011 version) with RCA-to-BNC adapters at each end. This was unlistenable.

 

The following oscilloscope square wave pulse train plots are shown in order of decreasing sound quality.

 

Figure 11. Best sound - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version).

 

Figure 12. Second best sound - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version). This cable distorted (rounded) the square wave so much that the scope interpreted it as a sine wave.

 

Figure 13. Third best sound - Oyaide DB-210 BNC-BNC.

 

Figure 14. Fourth best sound, by a wide margin - Belden 1865A, the cable supplied with the Giesemann EDC clock.

 

Figure 15. Fifth best sound - Prosig PSG00542, the cable supplied with my dCS Puccini word clock.

 

Figure 16. Sixth best sound, by a wide margin - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-RCA (2015 version) with RCA-to-BNC adapter on the receiving end. This was unlistenable.

 

Figure 17. Seventh best sound, by a wide margin - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver RCA-RCA (2011 version) with RCA-to-BNC adapters at each end. This was unlistenable.

[MasterWarzombie]

45 minutes ago, DarqueKnight said:

AfterDark Giesemann Emperor Double Crown Clock Square Wave With Seven Different 75 Ohm Cables

 

Listening evaluations and oscilloscope square wave plots of seven 75-ohm digital cables were done.

 

Figure 1. Top to bottom, arranged in order of decreasing sound quality: 1. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version, 1m, $449), 2. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version, 1.5m, $349), 3. Oyaide DB-510 BNC-BNC (1.3m, $200), 4. Belden 1865A BNC-BNC (1m, $10), 5. Prosig PSG00542 BNC-BNC (2m, $5), 6. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-RCA, with RCA-BNC adapter (2015 version, 1m, $449), 7. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver RCA-RCA, with RCA-BNC adapters (2011 version, 1m, $449).

 

Figure 2. The two cables with RCA terminations and RCA-BNC adapters were the worst sounding. The black-jacketed Revelation Audio Labs BNC-to-RCA cable is identical to the best sounding Revelation Audio Labs BNC-to-BNC cable, except for one end terminated with an RCA connector.

 

Figure 3. Connectors of the five BNC-to-BNC cables. Left to right: 1. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version, 1m, $449), 2. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version, 1.5m, $349), 3. Oyaide DB-510 BNC-BNC (1.3m, $200), 4. Belden 1865A BNC-BNC (1m, $10), 5. Prosig PSG00542 BNC-BNC (2m, $5).

 

The following oscilloscope square wave pulse plots are shown in order of decreasing sound quality. Sound quality detriments were:

 

1. Decrease in the sense of space between sound images.

2. Decrease in the depth of the sound stage.

3. Decrease in the "weight" of sound images.

4. Decrease in the clarity and detail of background percussion instruments.

5. Decrease in the details of chest, throat, lip, and tongue sounds of singers.

6. Decrease in bass detail, speed, and articulation.

7. Decrease in clarity and detail of sound images at the far rear and far sides of the sound stage.

8. Decrease in tactile sensation.

 

On a relative best to worst scale of 100 to 0:

 

Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version): 100.

Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version): 85.

Oyaide DB-510 BNC-BNC (1.3m): 60.

Belden 1865A BNC-BNC (1m): 40.

Prosig PSG00542 BNC-BNC (2m): 30.

Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-RCA, with one RCA-BNC adapter (2015 version): -10.

Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver RCA-RCA, with two RCA-BNC adapters (2011 version, 1m): -30.

 

The two last-place cables are good quality cables, but the RCA-to-BNC adapters did something ugly to their sound. The adapters were purchased from a local electronics supply store.

 

The Oyaide and all of the Revelation Audio Labs (RAL) cables use silver conductors. The 2015 version RAL cables have heavy noise shielding, including a conductive carbon outer jacket shield, and extensive vibration damping.

 

Figure 4. Best sound - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version).

 

Figure 5. Second best sound - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version). This cable distorted (rounded) the square wave so much that the scope interpreted it as a sine wave.

 

Figure 6. Third best sound - Oyaide DB-210 BNC-BNC.

 

Figure 7. Fourth best sound, by a wide margin - Belden 1865A, the cable supplied with the Giesemann EDC clock.

 

Figure 8. Fifth best sound - Prosig PSG00542, the cable supplied with my dCS Puccini word clock.

 

Figure 9. Sixth best sound, by a wide margin - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-RCA (2015 version) with RCA-to-BNC adapter on the receiving end. This was unlistenable.

 

Figure 10. Seventh best sound, by a wide margin - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver RCA-RCA (2011 version) with RCA-to-BNC adapters at each end. This was unlistenable.

 

The following oscilloscope square wave pulse train plots are shown in order of decreasing sound quality.

 

Figure 11. Best sound - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version).

 

Figure 12. Second best sound - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version). This cable distorted (rounded) the square wave so much that the scope interpreted it as a sine wave.

 

Figure 13. Third best sound - Oyaide DB-210 BNC-BNC.

 

Figure 14. Fourth best sound, by a wide margin - Belden 1865A, the cable supplied with the Giesemann EDC clock.

 

Figure 15. Fifth best sound - Prosig PSG00542, the cable supplied with my dCS Puccini word clock.

 

Figure 16. Sixth best sound, by a wide margin - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-RCA (2015 version) with RCA-to-BNC adapter on the receiving end. This was unlistenable.

 

Figure 17. Seventh best sound, by a wide margin - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver RCA-RCA (2011 version) with RCA-to-BNC adapters at each end. This was unlistenable.

Superb work.
My Oyaide DB 510 cable is Third suddenly.

In the legend of the graph, it is indicated 210 instead of 510.

[DarqueKnight]

16 minutes ago, MasterWarzombie said:

Superb work.
My Oyaide DB 510 cable is Third suddenly.

In the legend of the graph, it is indicated 210 instead of 510.

Yes, that is a typo in figures 6 and 13. Too late to edit and correct. Thanks for pointing that out.

I was expecting the Oyaide to come in second. I was planning to use it in my office system with my yet to be received AfterDark Giesemann Queen Square Wave clock.

[LowMidHigh]

1 hour ago, MasterWarzombie said:

Superb work.
My Oyaide DB 510 cable is Third suddenly.

In the legend of the graph, it is indicated 210 instead of 510.

 

It's a subjective opinion.

Will a blind test supports those findings? Will the cables still be ranked from expensive to dirt cheap?

[LowMidHigh]

2 hours ago, DarqueKnight said:

AfterDark Giesemann Emperor Double Crown Clock Square Wave With Seven Different 75 Ohm Cables

 

Listening evaluations and oscilloscope square wave plots of seven 75-ohm digital cables were done.

 

Figure 1. Top to bottom, arranged in order of decreasing sound quality: 1. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version, 1m, $449), 2. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version, 1.5m, $349), 3. Oyaide DB-510 BNC-BNC (1.3m, $200), 4. Belden 1865A BNC-BNC (1m, $10), 5. Prosig PSG00542 BNC-BNC (2m, $5), 6. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-RCA, with RCA-BNC adapter (2015 version, 1m, $449), 7. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver RCA-RCA, with RCA-BNC adapters (2011 version, 1m, $449).

 

Figure 2. The two cables with RCA terminations and RCA-BNC adapters were the worst sounding. The black-jacketed Revelation Audio Labs BNC-to-RCA cable is identical to the best sounding Revelation Audio Labs BNC-to-BNC cable, except for one end terminated with an RCA connector.

 

Figure 3. Connectors of the five BNC-to-BNC cables. Left to right: 1. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version, 1m, $449), 2. Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version, 1.5m, $349), 3. Oyaide DB-510 BNC-BNC (1.3m, $200), 4. Belden 1865A BNC-BNC (1m, $10), 5. Prosig PSG00542 BNC-BNC (2m, $5).

 

The following oscilloscope square wave pulse plots are shown in order of decreasing sound quality. Sound quality detriments were:

 

1. Decrease in the sense of space between sound images.

2. Decrease in the depth of the sound stage.

3. Decrease in the "weight" of sound images.

4. Decrease in the clarity and detail of background percussion instruments.

5. Decrease in the details of chest, throat, lip, and tongue sounds of singers.

6. Decrease in bass detail, speed, and articulation.

7. Decrease in clarity and detail of sound images at the far rear and far sides of the sound stage.

8. Decrease in tactile sensation.

 

On a relative best to worst scale of 100 to 0:

 

Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version): 100.

Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version): 85.

Oyaide DB-510 BNC-BNC (1.3m): 60.

Belden 1865A BNC-BNC (1m): 40.

Prosig PSG00542 BNC-BNC (2m): 30.

Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-RCA, with one RCA-BNC adapter (2015 version): -10.

Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver RCA-RCA, with two RCA-BNC adapters (2011 version, 1m): -30.

 

The two last-place cables are good quality cables, but the RCA-to-BNC adapters did something ugly to their sound. The adapters were purchased from a local electronics supply store.

 

The Oyaide and all of the Revelation Audio Labs (RAL) cables use silver conductors. The 2015 version RAL cables have heavy noise shielding, including a conductive carbon outer jacket shield, and extensive vibration damping.

 

Figure 4. Best sound - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version).

 

Figure 5. Second best sound - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version). This cable distorted (rounded) the square wave so much that the scope interpreted it as a sine wave.

 

Figure 6. Third best sound - Oyaide DB-210 BNC-BNC.

 

Figure 7. Fourth best sound, by a wide margin - Belden 1865A, the cable supplied with the Giesemann EDC clock.

 

Figure 8. Fifth best sound - Prosig PSG00542, the cable supplied with my dCS Puccini word clock.

 

Figure 9. Sixth best sound, by a wide margin - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-RCA (2015 version) with RCA-to-BNC adapter on the receiving end. This was unlistenable.

 

Figure 10. Seventh best sound, by a wide margin - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver RCA-RCA (2011 version) with RCA-to-BNC adapters at each end. This was unlistenable.

 

The following oscilloscope square wave pulse train plots are shown in order of decreasing sound quality.

 

Figure 11. Best sound - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2015 version).

 

Figure 12. Second best sound - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-BNC (2009 version). This cable distorted (rounded) the square wave so much that the scope interpreted it as a sine wave.

 

Figure 13. Third best sound - Oyaide DB-210 BNC-BNC.

 

Figure 14. Fourth best sound, by a wide margin - Belden 1865A, the cable supplied with the Giesemann EDC clock.

 

Figure 15. Fifth best sound - Prosig PSG00542, the cable supplied with my dCS Puccini word clock.

 

Figure 16. Sixth best sound, by a wide margin - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver BNC-RCA (2015 version) with RCA-to-BNC adapter on the receiving end. This was unlistenable.

 

Figure 17. Seventh best sound, by a wide margin - Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver RCA-RCA (2011 version) with RCA-to-BNC adapters at each end. This was unlistenable.

 

RCA terminators, with the exception of one Canare product, don't adhere to any specific impedance,  which  should explain their poor performance. 

 

[MartinT]

That tells me there is very little correlation between waveform shape and sound quality.

 

I suspect the performance differences may be more due to the shielding from EMI/RFI, which the 'scope view won't tell us.

[Iving]

1 hour ago, MartinT said:

That tells me there is very little correlation between waveform shape and sound quality.

 

Or that there is an exact, logical relationship between wave form and sound quality but the inexpert eye has not discerned it on the oscilloscope because the relationship between the wave form and the receiving equipment that it provokes is too complex (or the oscilloscope is not sensitive to it).

 

1 hour ago, MartinT said:

I suspect the performance differences may be more due to the shielding from EMI/RFI, which the 'scope view won't tell us.

 

This has two implications I don't understand!

1) EMI/RFI shielding variability is not manifest on the oscilloscope waveform.

2) SQ is not a function of wave form only. An ethereal alternative?

[LowMidHigh]

8 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

Or that there is an exact, logical relationship between wave form and sound quality but the inexpert eye has not discerned it on the oscilloscope because the relationship between the wave form and the receiving equipment that it provokes is too complex (or the oscilloscope is not sensitive to it).

 

 

This has two implications I don't understand!

1) EMI/RFI shielding variability is not manifest on the oscilloscope waveform.

2) SQ is not a function of wave form only. An ethereal alternative?

 

You might be barking at the wrong tree. First, a blind test has to establish a meaningful difference between the cables. 

[Iving]

13 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

You might be barking at the wrong tree. First, a blind test has to establish a meaningful difference between the cables. 

 

Well I think I understand what you are saying - that a discussion about relationship of wave form to SQ is ludicrous without prior proof that one might exist. I would say that: A) the threshold for "scientific" (or laboratory) blind testing to show a statistical effect is a brutal one - convincing if it is demonstrated but its absence is not conclusive; and B) really I was relating to Martin about logical possibilities (or otherwise) within the WV/SQ proposition not before it.

[LowMidHigh]

6 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

Well I think I understand what you are saying - that a discussion about relationship of wave form to SQ is ludicrous without prior proof that one might exist. I would say that: A) the threshold for "scientific" (or laboratory) blind testing to show a statistical effect is a brutal one - convincing if it is demonstrated but its absence is not conclusive; and B) really I was relating to Martin about logical possibilities (or otherwise) within the WV/SQ proposition not before it.

 

I wouldn't use the word "ludicrous," really too harsh. 

 

But I wouldn't shot down a blind test so cavalierly either.  It's easy to build a passive BNC switch that would enable you to test the sound of cables on the fly, with a turn of a knob. Even if you're content with A/B, at least you won't rely on our notoriously short span aural memory. 

[MartinT]

2 hours ago, Iving said:

This has two implications I don't understand!

1) EMI/RFI shielding variability is not manifest on the oscilloscope waveform.

2) SQ is not a function of wave form only. An ethereal alternative?

 

We already know that noise (or lack of) is incredibly important in both the signal and clock.  The 'bad stuff' is in the high MHz and GHz range, well above the signal/clock frequencies and virtually undetectable on an oscilloscope (because it's superimposed on the signal).  You would need a high pass filter to see and measure it.

 

I believe this is the area where variations in sound quality may occur?

[Clockmeister]

This is going to be entertaining 🙂

 

Later I will post some images of cables looking at a true 10Mhz WF, then I would like you chaps to take a stab of which you feel would offer the best performance. These will be correctly matched impedance wise and signal wise.

 

If you truly wish to look at cables, then using a Vector Network Analyser is the best method, that way so can see cable reflections and insertion loses in REAL TIME.

 

So far you are all getting bogged down with which is best (lol), now so far none of the cables being shown or testes are a good (imho) as some RG179 and matching crimped 75 connectors

 

https://uk.farnell.com/huber-suhner/23019104/coax-cable-wire-2-54mm-75-ohm/dp/3498647?st=75 ohm cables

 

From looking at the chaps posting on here with the equipment in the signature they are a couple with top quality sounding clock cables I have listened to, most of you will not wish to go to that level. However using something similar to above which will cost around between £75 and £125 will sound damn good for your applications more so than most up to £600 mark imho.

 

The first image is of a decent laboratory reference 18Ghz cable 50 Ohm, the second is of a lab cable (50 Ohm) that cable with a piece of test equipment, the third is from a a specific 75 Ohm reference clock cable measurements were taken using the Lecroy 75Ohm impedance adapter for the 75 Ohm cable. The finial two being various other high end cables from sensible to silly price.

 

All samples were taken @ 200Mhz bandwidth, with digital scopes you require five (5) times the bandwidth of the frequency being sampled for accurate repeatable measurements.

 

Have also included PK<>PK Overshoot/undershoot +Width and - Width plus  80-20% positive and negative fall times as well for comparison.

 

For ourselves cable selection is critical in the lab for some of our ultra low noise high speed serial data applications.

 

Next week I will I will perform some VNA tests on the cables.

[Iving]

22 minutes ago, MartinT said:

The 'bad stuff' is in the high MHz and GHz range, well above the signal/clock frequencies and *virtually* undetectable on an oscilloscope (because it's superimposed on the signal).  You would need a high pass filter to see and measure it.

 

I believe this is the area where variations in sound quality may occur?

 

I starred "virtually" in your quote. I read that a sufficiently sensitive oscilloscope and an even more (technically) sensitive user could help us out here [and also saw that @Clockmeisterposted as I write but I'll read that in a minute ...]

 

Away from HF for a second, I just recall JS writing something about the *shape* of the wave *as it triggers the receiving device* being no straightforward matter. The relationship is complex. It may be actual, exact and logical. But it is complex for mere mortals. I guess it's implicit that a wave form that triggers the receiving device well and reliably is the one that counts, no matter how it looks to a crude eye on a crude oscilloscope. That is what I'm getting at.

 

I noticed too that you and I went for Sine and Square respectively in our AD clocks, and confess I read "That tells me there is very little correlation between waveform shape and sound quality." in that context! [because your first choice was a Triple i.e. Square but for the integrated power supply ;-)]

 

Anyway - over to Clockmeister!

[AfterDark.]

35 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

I starred "virtually" in your quote. I read that a sufficiently sensitive oscilloscope and an even more (technically) sensitive user could help us out here [and also saw that @Clockmeisterposted as I write but I'll read that in a minute ...]

 

Away from HF for a second, I just recall JS writing something about the *shape* of the wave *as it triggers the receiving device* being no straightforward matter. The relationship is complex. It may be actual, exact and logical. But it is complex for mere mortals. I guess it's implicit that a wave form that triggers the receiving device well and reliably is the one that counts, no matter how it looks to a crude eye on a crude oscilloscope. That is what I'm getting at.

 

I noticed too that you and I went for Sine and Square respectively in our AD clocks, and confess I read "That tells me there is very little correlation between waveform shape and sound quality." in that context! [because your first choice was a Triple i.e. Square but for the integrated power supply ;-)]

 

Anyway - over to Clockmeister!

 

Hi! lving, 

 

We are having a new reference grade BNC 75ohm Clock cable for Giesemann Clock. The material on core cable, shielding and tuning spacing cable 's construction does matter on Clock cable. 

 

The new AD clock cable, DC cable, and Giesemann Clock and EtherREGEN is so good and will reviewed by audio magazine in US.

 

UpTone and AfterDark is certified that all range of Giesemann Clock, EtherREGEN and UItraCap LPS-1.2 all work well together with our latest collaboration to improve sounding.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Best Regards,

Adrian

AfterDark. 

 

 

[Iving]

16 minutes ago, AfterDark. said:

 

Hi! lving, 

 

We are having a new reference grade BNC 75ohm Clock cable for Giesemann Clock. The new AD clock cable, DC cable, and Giesemann Clock and EtherREGEN is so good and will reviewed by audio magazine in US.

 

UpTone and AfterDark is certified that all range of Giesemann Clock, EtherREGEN and UItraCap LPS-1.2 all work well together with our latest collaboration to improve sounding.

 

The material on core cable, shielding and tuning spacing cable 's construction does matter on Clock cable. 

 

Have a nice day.

 

Best Regards,

Adrian

AfterDark. 

 

 

 

So much to anticipate! I succumbed to Martin's most recent Belden/Canare wobble and bought a bunch of various lengths 4694R courtesy D3 Video Studio to get me by whilst I rebuild my system and, later, navigate the flurry of alternative clock cable recommendations.

 

I know you shipped my Triple Emperor Double Crown today - with EtherRegen B-Side cable - and can't wait to give them an outing.

 

Please do post links to any reviews when they come in!

[DarqueKnight]

3 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

I wouldn't use the word "ludicrous," really too harsh. 

 

But I wouldn't shot down a blind test so cavalierly either.  It's easy to build a passive BNC switch that would enable you to test the sound of cables on the fly, with a turn of a knob. Even if you're content with A/B, at least you won't rely on our notoriously short span aural memory. 

I did not/do not rely on short term aural memory. My evaluation methodology is based on making maps of the relative positions (lateral, front to back, and vertical) and relative sizes of all the sound images in the sound stage and then making notes of the quality and characteristics of those sound images. I do not listen for "differences".

 

Blind tests are more suited for people who are not experienced and proficient in stereophonic perception (sound localization, tactile perception, and being able to describe the character and quality of sound). Such listeners will only be able to discern "gross" differences and will typically not be sensitive to the more subtle differences in sound stage presentation offered among various audio devices under evaluation. For examples:

 

 1. A naive listener might strain to hear a "difference" during a blind test, and hear no difference, because the "difference" was in tactile sensation.

 

2. A naive listener might strain to hear a "difference" during a blind test, and hear no difference, because the "difference" was a change in the relative positions of images in the sound stage.

 

Examples of sound stage maps:

 

 

 

 

 

[LowMidHigh]

1 hour ago, AfterDark. said:

 

Hi! lving, 

 

We are having a new reference grade BNC 75ohm Clock cable for Giesemann Clock. The material on core cable, shielding and tuning spacing cable 's construction does matter on Clock cable. 

 

The new AD clock cable, DC cable, and Giesemann Clock and EtherREGEN is so good and will reviewed by audio magazine in US.

 

UpTone and AfterDark is certified that all range of Giesemann Clock, EtherREGEN and UItraCap LPS-1.2 all work well together with our latest collaboration to improve sounding.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Best Regards,

Adrian

AfterDark. 

 

 

 

Adrian, 

 

Do you have an attenuation table for your cable? (Like Belden and Canare). 

[PYP]

8 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

Adrian, 

 

Do you have an attenuation table for your cable? (Like Belden and Canare). 

And it would be interesting to include this one too in the spreadsheet:   http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/3113015.pdf

 

[R1200CL]

The size package 24x24x15 cm. 
 

Huge span between phase noise 1Hz and 10Hz. If I really got 140, it’s fantastic. 

 

 

[MartinT]

You did even better than me (for a King) of -108dB and -138dB respectively.

 

I'm very happy with it.

[sbilotta]

Dumb question, probably, but is it possible to get a 10Mhz frequency from a 22.5792/24.576MHz frequency clock?

 

Reason I ask is that I see that AD's clocks can perform at different frequencies (10Mhz / 20Mhz / 22.569Mhz / 24Mhz /24.576Mhz /25 Mhz or customized frequencies from 1-100Mhz), so is it possible to get in output a certain frequency and then "transform" it into another?

 

and if so, how?