Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[DarqueKnight]

The Emperor has arrived.

 

Figure 1. AfterDark ClayX Giesemann OCXO Emperor Double Crown 10 MHz clock, with triple 75 ohm square wave outputs and integrated linear power supply. Claimed phase noise specifications are -117 dBc/Hz at 1 Hz and -141 dBc/Hz at 10 Hz. I was impressed with the build quality.

 

Figure 2. I was surprised, and disappointed, that there was not an LED to indicate the unit was turned on. Maybe it's just as well...one less source of electrical noise...plus, my EtherREGEN knows when the clock is on. I like having a light though.

 

Figure 3. Triple 75 ohm isolated outputs.

 

Figure 4. The Emperor arrived in a recycled box.

 

Figure 5. Inside the box: the power cable and three 75 ohm cables were in separate cardboard tubes.

 

Figure 6. Inside the box: foam corner padding. At this price ($1800 USD), I certainly expected double boxing and custom packaging. I was also expecting a data sheet on the phase noise measurements of the clock's OCXO.

 

Figure 7. The clock came with a 16 AWG power cord and three Belden 1865A 75 ohm cables.

 

Figure 8. Setting up the initial listening session. To the right of the AfterDark Giesemann clock is a TeraDak DC-30 linear power supply, which is connected to a BG7TBL clock (black box under the TeraDak power supply.

 

The clock was much bigger than I expected. AfterDark's website lists dimensions of 141mm (5.5 in.) W x 210mm (8.26 in.) D x 90mm (3.54 in.) H. My clock is 230mm (9 in.) W x 306mm (12 in.) D x 98mm (3.89 in.) H. The weight specification given on the website, 3 kg (6.8 pounds), was correct.

 

Figure 9. Square wave pulse train with stock Belden 1865A cable (Cost $10) and stock power cord.

 

Figure 10. Square wave pulse with stock Belden 1865A cable and stock power cord.

 

Initial Sound Quality Impressions - First Two Days

 

I let the Gieseman EDC warm up for three hours prior to connecting it to the EtherREGEN. Replacing the $85 BG7TBL clock with the $1800 Giesemann EDC clock provided handsome rewards in enhanced spatial properties and image weight. There was an enhanced sense of sound stage depth. There was more ambient information. More micro details in bass. More tactile sensation. More fine details in the breathing, chest, throat, and lip sounds of singers. Better clock cables increased the degree of all those enhancements.

 

Putting the BG7TBL back in did not result in a "veiling" effect. Going back to the BG7TBL resulted in a sonic presentation that was smaller in scope (the amount and types of different musical sounds heard), scale (the size if sound images), and space (the relative distances between sound images).

 

I will provide more insights later...after a month or so of listening...and experimenting with clock cables and power cords.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MartinT]

Listening late last night, there is a new sense of lowered noise floor, quieter backgrounds, and music coming from darkness. Cliche it may sound, but this is what happens when you make any changes to the master clock arrangements. The worst thing you can do is turn the clock off. However, just putting in the Mini-Cicuits filters disturbed things, and of course, they had to burn in. Also, the Belden 4694R clock cables which I had hardly used previously as I had been using the Canare LV-77S which are slightly shorter.

So leaving it to 'cook' for a few days has improved things again. The good thing about a clock running constantly is that the cables and filters burn-in without needing any music to be playing.

[soares]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:32 AM, Rasputin said:

Tak, skal du have:)))  I did. I just do not trust Ali to buy American branded goods.  I have been through experiences of getting a fake. 

50 is a question, everyone reported increases had 75, my clock and etheregen 75, so in order to be on the safe side I wanted 75. Now if the 50 is really the same (can someone confirm from the experience and not theory?) that could be a solution.

I’ve got the 50 version. It works great with both the BG7TBL and the AfterDark Emperor Giesemann. Both are 75Ohms as well as my eR. Couldn’t live without it. Will order soon the 75 Ohms to compare.

[sgr]

Hi,

I have two 75 ohm ERs. It seems if adding an external clock the 50 ohm version is better as sine wave is much less quirky when it comes to cables. 
 

is there anyway to convert a 75 ohm ER to a 50 ohm version? 
 

I have purchased a Bg7tbl clock. The one marketed for the EtherREGEN. It has 3 outputs. How does one tell if all three outputs are sine or square wave? I also assume that mine if 75ohm because I didn’t specify 50ohm at purchase. 
 

I’m interested in purchasing an AfterDark clock. But which one? There are a bunch ranked better than the Queen. But how much better? I’m not afraid of spending more than the queen but it’s difficult to tell how much better an emperor is than a queen or why? 
 

If my 75ohm EtherREGEN can’t be converted to 50ohm is it worth selling one of my 75 ohm EtherREGENs and purchase a 50 ohm? Or horror of horrors order a new EtherREGEN at 50 ohms and keep my two 75 ohm EtherREGENs already purchased and since two EtherREGENs was better than one, have a stack of three like many do with the Buffalos? 
 

And for Alex and John, why do multiple Ethernet switches equal better sound quality? I’m guessing the extra clock each unit has. But maybe there is some other mysterious part inside? 
 

if so build a Super EtherREGEN that contains multiple clocks? And for those using external clocks, would a chain of multiple external clocks even sound better? 
 

Hmm, if I purchase a 75 ohm AfterDark  Queen clock I could always try adding my Bg7tbl clock and cascade into the AfterDark Queen? (Or which ever one I purchase?)
 

I know lots of questions. And thanks in advance for anyone answering. Perhaps some topics will generate more debate. 

[Superdad]

40 minutes ago, sgr said:

I have two 75 ohm ERs. It seems if adding an external clock the 50 ohm version is better as sine wave is much less quirky when it comes to cables.

As we keep explaining, impedance matching (of devices, cables, filter) does not matter with sine wave clocks!

[sgr]

Sorry Alex, I read everything again after I posted. I understand now. 

Then I couldn’t edit out my errors as the site wouldn’t let me.  

 

My errors. 

 

[jamesg11]

10 hours ago, Superdad said:

As we keep explaining, impedance matching (of devices, cables, filter) does not matter with sine wave clocks!

So, nothing to worry about, just get the sine wave clock of choice!

[LowMidHigh]

For the people who are discouraged by square wave, please remember:

 

A. A good square wave clock yields better results than a sine one.

B. Sourcing a quality 75 ohm cable is neither expensive nor difficult. E.g., Canare LV-77S.

[jamesg11]

38 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

For the people who are discouraged by square wave, please remember:

 

A. A good square wave clock yields better results than a sine one.

B. Sourcing a quality 75 ohm cable is neither expensive nor difficult. E.g., Canare LV-77S.

Yeh, I’m unable to judge such ie a good sq wave clock pre-purchase,

so just following the Uptone take-away ... go with ‘safety bet’ sine + filter, & I can still use my Ghent 75ohm Belden 4694R + JSSG360, 30cm cable ...

[sandston]

Upgraded a couple weeks ago from the Cheap and Cheerful Chinese clock, 75ohm,  square wave to an After Dark Queen Square Wave ER edition. Both were not subtle upgrades. I use the Apogee Wyde Eye cable which is highly rated and modestly priced. Have no fear this is no snake oil. I'm going to refrain from all the audiophile superlatives here. They've all been used. I'm very impressed and very confused as to why this creates such an uplift but there's no going back for me.

 

FYI I'm running an Asus router into my Etherregen B-A side - optical cable - Opticalrendu - Dac. 

 

If anyone wants to get there feet wet here PM me and make me an offer on my Chinese clock. I'd love to pass this thing on and open someone else's ears

 

 

[LowMidHigh]

42 minutes ago, sandston said:

 I use the Apogee Wyde Eye cable which is highly rated and modestly priced. Have no fear this is no snake oil.

 

 

I believe that cable is actually a re-branded Canare LV-77S. That's a good thing :)

[R1200CL]

On 4/17/2021 at 3:27 AM, DarqueKnight said:

I will provide more insights later...after a month or so of listening...and experimenting with clock cables and power cords.

It would be nice to have some pictures from the inside. 

[sahmen]

23 hours ago, sandston said:

Upgraded a couple weeks ago from the Cheap and Cheerful Chinese clock, 75ohm,  square wave to an After Dark Queen Square Wave ER edition. Both were not subtle upgrades. I use the Apogee Wyde Eye cable which is highly rated and modestly priced. Have no fear this is no snake oil. I'm going to refrain from all the audiophile superlatives here. They've all been used. I'm very impressed and very confused as to why this creates such an uplift but there's no going back for me.

 

FYI I'm running an Asus router into my Etherregen B-A side - optical cable - Opticalrendu - Dac. 

 

If anyone wants to get there feet wet here PM me and make me an offer on my Chinese clock. I'd love to pass this thing on and open someone else's ears

 

 

 

So does the Apogee wyde eye BNC cable sound better than the stock cable which comes with The Afterdark Giesemann Queen square wave clock for ER? I would just like to get the best reasonably priced cable for my own Giesemann Queen Square wave clock for ER, which I am currently expecting. 

 

If the Apogee Wyde eye is just a re-branded Canare LV-77S, where can I reliably purchase the best performing one among various versions of this particular cable, and what length of the cable would be ideal?

[Roasty]

I liked the Apogee Wyde Eye too. To me, it was better than the Ghent Audio Belden. 

 

Someone lent me his Black Cat Tron bnc cable and for some reason, I didn't think much of it, or perhaps my system was not up to par to make the most of that high priced cable. 

 

However, have since changed all my bnc clock cables to custom VH Audio Pulsar Ag + Oyaide bnc plugs.

[LowMidHigh]

6 minutes ago, sahmen said:

 

So does the Apogee wyde eye BNC cable sound better than the stock cable which comes with The Afterdark Giesemann Queen square wave clock for ER? I would just like to get the best reasonably priced cable for my own Giesemann Queen Square wave clock for ER, which I am currently expecting. 

 

If the Apogee Wyde eye is just a re-branded Canare LV-77S, where can I reliably purchase the best performing one among various versions of this particular cable, and what length of the cable would be ideal?

 

Blue Jeans cable offers the LV-77S. 

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/shopbycable/LV77S.htm

 

You can choose the boot color. 

 

According to Mutec, the ideal cable length is up to 2 meters. 

[LowMidHigh]

6 minutes ago, Roasty said:

 

However, have since changed all my bnc clock cables to custom VH Audio Pulsar Ag + Oyaide bnc plugs.

 

HD video cables usually have the lowest attenuation. However, most are solid core, which can pose difficulties in some installations. 

[FIndingit]

This a picture of a Wyde Eye cable I have. 
 

It is quite unlike Canare LV-77S, which does not have a foil shield. 

http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=74

 

Another myth busted!

 

[Mouna]

i got two mini circuits from GB - one of them i connected to the ER - with great results - from the very beginning many more details and dynamics...thinking now about using the second one at the clock - does that make sense two on one cable?

 

I have another switch from PPang with a 25MHZ clock - thought about using a minicircuit with that one too - is that  doing any harm or will it give benefits also though 25MHZ - any idea - shouldn't harm the switch since only a filter....

 

any thoughta - knowledge about that...would appreciate your opinions/ experiences...

[MartinT]

26 minutes ago, Mouna said:

I have another switch from PPang with a 25MHZ clock - thought about using a minicircuit with that one too - is that  doing any harm or will it give benefits also though 25MHZ - any idea - shouldn't harm the switch since only a filter....

 

 

You wouldn't be able to use the same BLP-10.7 filter on 25MHz - remember it's an 11MHz filter so the clock would be filtered down to unusable.

 

You could look through Mini-Circuits' catalogue to find a 26MHz filter.

[Mouna]

that was quick, Martin  - thank you also for your starting the thread - got many valid inspirations - did you try two minis on ER and clock?

[MartinT]

No I haven't, as I have two Minis and two reclockers (ER and Mutec).  In this configuration, using two sinewave outputs, it sounds really excellent.

[Mouna]

I'll try this then and let you know if there are any noticeable changes using two between clock and ER

[owldiscourse]

So just to confirm, the filter is recommended for sine wave, and NOT square wave?

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, owldiscourse said:

So just to confirm, the filter is recommended for sine wave, and NOT square wave?

That's correct--because the filter will turn the square wave into a sine wave!

But if the square wave is crappy (say from a clock with poor sine>square converter) and your cable is just average, then using the filter on that square wave may yield better final results there as well.

[LowMidHigh]

4 hours ago, Superdad said:

That's correct--because the filter will turn the square wave into a sine wave!

But if the square wave is crappy (say from a clock with poor sine>square converter) and your cable is just average, then using the filter on that square wave may yield better final results there as well.

 

BTW, Identifying a low-attenuation cable for a square wave is somewhat of a challenge.

 

Only Belden and Canare publish tables with figures. Furutech were kind enough to measure their entry level cable, but never returned to me with information about their high-end offerings (Incidentally, the figures for the FC-62 are below average compared to the aforementioned pro companies). One cable boutique just shrugged me off.

 

Out of the above, the Canare LV-77S features the lowest attenuation for a stranded core. However, both manufacturers catalogs solid-core products with considerably better performance.