UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[Summit]

On 12/7/2019 at 11:23 AM, Superdad said:

 

No offense intended. In fact, if it were not for all the passionate people here--pushing at the edge and trying everything to further improve their music reproduction systems--John and I would not have been inspired to think about and design solutions that strike at the root causes of these issues. 

(The active differential isolation moat and reclocking at the core of EtherREGEN being just the most recent example.)

So please keep experimenting and be as "wacky" as you wish. That's where great ideas derive from. 

@SuperdadI know you didn’t mean anything bad by saying wacky. I just informed you that I don’t want to be called that, so in the future you want do that again. I believe it’s always better to say directly if something is borderline offending, even if other people is fine by be called that.

 

Have very nice evening 😊.

 

PS. looking forward to get my ER, hopefully before Christmas. 

[kennyb123]

7 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

To clarify I have yet to try my LPS-1.2 (in part due to Alex and Johns suggestion its not needed, in part because its already sounding terrific - so I'm in no hurry to experiment, but will get round to it). I was commenting on CKKeungs post over on WBF.

 

But I also seem to recall John and Alex saying a better PSU shouldn't make much difference. As opposed to no difference. But somewhere in all these ER pages so I'm going by memory there.

 

Also I'm defo not suggesting anyone buy an LPS-1.2 or anything else to find out. I'm curious for those that have one to hand to try.

I just sold two LPS-1.2 supplies and never even tried either with the EtherRegen.  Such a terrific improvement with the stock supply, I think those dollars can be better applied elsewhere.

[jandersonhill]

4 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

How were you connecting the two SOtM switches to each other and to the ER?  What power supplies?

 

They are connected to each other and the ER via SotM dCBL-CAT7 SE cables, being driven by the sPS-500 power supplies (although their clock is driven by the LPS-1.2). The ER is powered by the mains unit supplied with the unit (at least for the moment).

[ray-dude]

23 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

I just sold two LPS-1.2 supplies and never even tried either with the EtherRegen.  Such a terrific improvement with the stock supply, I think those dollars can be better applied elsewhere.

 

I've been doing some power and cable experiments with ER this morning.  Since Alex has a separate thread set up for this sort of thing, I posted my listening impressions here:

 

[jandersonhill]

On 12/7/2019 at 7:26 AM, Iving said:

 

Would that be SOtM > SOtM > ER strictly in that order (cf. HK report)? How much better is adding the ER over 2 SOtMs?

 

Is it greater or less than adding the extra SOtM at the front end. Is the SQ delta similar in quality?

 

To your ears how much is the (positive presumably) difference between 2 and 1 SOtMs (no ER)?

 

Actually, I preferred the ER at the beginning of the chain, however bear in mind this was before the units were run in. This process was complicated by the fact the SotM's were upgraded (to include the external clock, their high end capacitors, silver wiring, noise absorbing material etc) after the ER arrived, so the burn in was then some way in on the ER, but needed to start again on the SotM's.

 

My plan is to try this exercise again now they are all run in, but this will have to wait a bit as I'm heading off on business for a week.

 

Going back to my notes, I felt adding the ER delivered more substance to the performance, was better focused and had a more accurate height and width to the soundstage. I would say that the delta gets smaller and smaller each time you add a unit, but it was noticeable.

 

SoTM suggest themselves that an isolator at the beginning of the chain will improve sound quality and I would agree, but for many it might be overkill.

[thyname]

Maybe I am hearing “things”, but my EtherRegen definitely sounds better with my LPS-1.2 than with the stock PS. No blind tests done here, no crap like that, so take it with a grain of salt. Placebo, confirmation bias, brains playing tricks, whatever....

[thyname]

40 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

When you write "crap," do you refer to placebo and bias confirmation or blind tests?

All of the above 😉😂. I was just being dramatic. Don’t read too much into it. All I was trying to say is my impressions on EtherRegen with and without LPS-1.2 were purely subjective, and not backed up by science, facts, or properly conducted, scientifically and statistically controlled ABX tests. Basically, just me, putting in and out the LPS-1.2. Fully sighted, nobody else in the room with me (dog does not count in this case)

[k-man]

7 hours ago, thyname said:

Fully sighted, nobody else in the room with me (dog does not count in this case)

Paw tapping or tail wagging frequency are valid measures.

[skatbelt]

On 12/7/2019 at 6:08 AM, Evo1668 said:

Well I decided the other night to move my Nucleus+ to be closer to my ER and Streamer - As a result of this I also moved my JS2 which was powering the Nucleus. So now my Nucleus is connected directly to one of the ER “A” side ports (50cm AQ Vodka cable) -wow definitely improves the sound - even less congestion - result! 
 

Having a spare outlet on the JS2 - seemed silly not to try it at 12V straight into the ER.....double wow! I didn’t think you could strip any more haze from the window into the music - you most definitely can - the dynamics are even way better. I’ll have to try switching back to the stock PSU on the ER, to try and quantify what the ER is adding versus Nucleus being closer to the ER, but I’m loathed to change anything at the moment.  
 

I know Alex/John say a better PSU over stock is not needed - but in my configuration/system I would have to pop my head out the trench and disagree. 

 

I can confirm your findings. This morning I did A/B this very simple setup:

 

ISP router > copper ethernet > EtherREGEN > copper ethernet > dCS Network Bridge > rest of system

 

The only variable was the power supply to the EtherREGEN: JS-2 set to 12V vs. stock SMPS. I streamed from Qobuz directly to the dCS via the dCS Mosaic app and control (which by the way performs a little bit better SQ wise compared to the dCS as Roon endpoint). Nothing else connected to JS-2.

 

My subjective conclusions: power supply quality matters. JS-2 was the clear winner. Even more width, depth, ease and pinpoint-iness. I don't believe the last one is a word but you get what I mean. The stock supply sounds a little edgy compared to the JS-2. Very noticeable with higher notes on stringed instruments. So the JS-2 has to stay.

 

After this I reconnected my Roon server to the second rail of the JS-2 and the A-side of the EtherREGEN and I was happy to discover that this did nothing negative to the SQ playing the same track from Qobuz via dCS Mosaic.

[desert38]

Got my ER yesterday afternoon.  Replaced my Linear Solutions OCXO switch 2.0 with the ER and let it play a few hours for burn-in.  Had a few hours this morning to really sit down and listen.  Well that turned into 4 straight hours of WOW!!  The music was so much more engaging than before and I couldn't stop wondering what the next song was going to sound like. 

 

I have about 8TB of local Hi-Res music and I have Tidal and Qobuz.  It didn't matter the source, everything sounded so much more open and listenable.  I thought I was happy with my current set-up, but this pushed me to another level of enjoyment.  I am sure what I heard is not measurable, but there was no question there was a MAJOR difference.  Even my significant other who could really care less about sound quality commented from the other room that I must have made another tweak because it really sounded good. 

 

Anyone who is on the fence about the ER should jump off and order one.  What have you got to lose?  Keep it for 30 days and ship it back if you aren't blown away.  I have been reading all of the posts since the first shipment and I have to say that I was a bit skeptical since I already had invested in an upgraded switch.  The reality blew away my expectation. 

 

I have a Devialet Expert 250 Pro and I read a lot about how people think that the sound is clinical and non-engaging.  I like to think that the sound is very revealing and will show any flaw upstream.  In the case of the ER, it showed me how amazing this little box is.  I could care less about what it does and how it does it because it made a huge difference to me.

 

Can't wait to get my audiophile buddies over for some A/B testing between the OCXO switch, my previous HP 1820 and my Netgear GS-105, which was my first switch.

 

Congrats to Alex and John on the results of all your hard work and long hours.

 

 

   

[ogs]

@desert38 So this is the ER straight into the ethernet port of the 250? Are you using Roon RAAT or some other software perhaps?

[desert38]

The ER is in my listening room connected directly into the ethernet port of the 250.  Came right up and sounds amazing.  No issues with drops

[Superdad]

On 12/8/2019 at 11:47 AM, desert38 said:

Anyone who is on the fence about the ER should jump off and order one.  What have you got to lose?  Keep it for 30 days and ship it back if you aren't blown away.  I have been reading all of the posts since the first shipment and I have to say that I was a bit skeptical since I already had invested in an upgraded switch.  The reality blew away my expectation. 

I have a Devialet Expert 250 Pro and I read a lot about how people think that the sound is clinical and non-engaging.  I like to think that the sound is very revealing and will show any flaw upstream.  In the case of the ER, it showed me how amazing this little box is.  I could care less about what it does and how it does it because it made a huge difference to me.

 

Welcome to Audiophile Style.

And wow, what a great first post! 

So glad that you are already enjoying your new EtherREGEN.  And I see that you posted your impressions over in the thread at the Devialet forum. Thanks.

[desert38]

Alex, I do have a quick question for you.  When I purchased by Linear Solutions switch, I also purchased their basic LPS.  The specs are 9v/2.75A.  Can I use this as a power supply for the ER?

 

[ogs]

Your report is the first I've seen on the ER+Devialet Expert. Thanks!

[Superdad]

Just now, desert38 said:

Alex, I do have a quick question for you.  When I purchased by Linear Solutions switch, I also purchased their basic LPS.  The specs are 9v/2.75A.  Can I use this as a power supply for the ER?

 

Current and voltage-wise it will be fine.

But I am sorry, due to a well document history of Linear Solutions delivering products with widely varying degrees of quality control (search the forums) and design, in the event of that supply failing and damaging the EtherREGEN we would decline to warrant it. You might want to pop the cover of that LPS to inspect basic workmanship and safety.

[desert38]

Point taken.  Will continue to use the PS that came with the ER.  Very happy with the sound.  I might look at purchasing one of your LPS after I hear more reviews come in about upgrading the PS. 

[mikeg]

This is a question for Superdad.  Can my JS-2 power my ER and my QNAP TS-251+ NAS drive?

[Superdad]

16 minutes ago, mikeg said:

This is a question for Superdad.  Can my JS-2 power my ER and my QNAP TS-251+ NAS drive?

Yes, a JS-2 should quite easily power both your QNAP TS-251+ and the EtherREGEN.  Set both JS-2 outputs to 12V please.

[elan120]

7 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Yes, a JS-2 should quite easily power both your QNAP TS-251+ and the EtherREGEN.  Set both JS-2 outputs to 12V please.

When powering device connecting to A side of EtherREGEN and EtherREGEN itself with JS-2, will the "common" ground for both outputs create ill effect such as leakage current?

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, elan120 said:

When powering device connecting to A side of EtherREGEN and EtherREGEN itself with JS-2, will the "common" ground for both outputs create ill effect such as leakage current?

 

No, it won't.  First off, as a linear PS the JS-2 puts out very little leakage of its own. So powering his NAS or computer will hopefully result in lower leakage from its Ethernet cable.

 

Secondly, power to the EtherREGEN is to the 'A'-side ('B' side gets its power passed through isolating converter with just 2pf of capacitance), so almost nothing makes it across the moat.

 

The only remaining question is if, as the JS-2 outputs are "floated" from AC mains ground, it might be desirable to use the Ground screw of the EtherREGEN--to shunt any high-source impedance leakage which might be entering the 'A' side from some other RJ45 connection such as a router with SMPS.

 

Hope that all makes sense. Busy morning here getting out the last 50 December units to overseas second-batch buyers--3 days ahead of schedule. 

[elan120]

2 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

No, it won't.  First off, as a linear PS the JS-2 puts out very little leakage of its own. So powering his NAS or computer will hopefully result in lower leakage from its Ethernet cable.

 

Secondly, power to the EtherREGEN is to the 'A'-side ('B' side gets its power passed through isolating converter with just 2pf of capacitance), so almost nothing makes it across the moat.

 

The only remaining question is if, as the JS-2 outputs are "floated" from AC mains ground, it might be desirable to use the Ground screw of the EtherREGEN--to shunt any high-source impedance leakage which might be entering the 'A' side from some other RJ45 connection such as a router with SMPS.

 

Hope that all makes sense. Busy morning here getting out the last 50 December units to overseas first-batch buyers--3 days ahead of schedule. 

Sounds good, thank you for the quick and detailed information.  I will do some comparison between LPS-1.2 and JS-2 tonight when I get home.  I prefer having the ground screw wired, so the comparison will be based on this setup.

[skatbelt]

On 12/9/2019 at 10:06 AM, Superdad said:

No, it won't.  First off, as a linear PS the JS-2 puts out very little leakage of its own. So powering his NAS or computer will hopefully result in lower leakage from its Ethernet cable.

Secondly, power to the EtherREGEN is to the 'A'-side ('B' side gets its power passed through isolating converter with just 2pf of capacitance), so almost nothing makes it across the moat.

 

I assume the enclosure of the JS-2 is grounded Alex? So making a simple wire connection from ER ground screw to the JS-2 enclosure could be a quick test to see if shunting helps?

[Superdad]

22 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

I assume the enclosure of the JS-2 is grounded Alex?

It is, but there is the matter what screw of the JS-2 enclosure you would use as the chassis is anodized and while the screws are steel, the ones holding the cover are short and a special countersink. Putting a wire under them could be tricky and likely to scratch the lovely case finish. And if you pick one of the other underside stainless steel hex-head screws, you need to be mindful as some are short PCB screws, and the larger ones are for the transformer and you could have trouble retightening them from only one side.

I'd really rather people not mess with JS-2 screws. You must have many other good grounds in your system. 

[LowMidHigh]

On 12/9/2019 at 10:06 AM, Superdad said:

No, it won't.  First off, as a linear PS the JS-2 puts out very little leakage of its own. So powering his NAS or computer will hopefully result in lower leakage from its Ethernet cable.

Alex, 

Is there any harm in grounding the ER regardless of the circumstances?