MQA is Vaporware

[Ralf11]

3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Agree. Nice work @Archimago. 

 

If only we knew his real name, then the article would be truthful :~)

 

if you deconvolute his screen name to the 3rd unfold you will find it

[daverich4]

All y’all gotta get on the bandwagon at some point.....

 

“Hideo Irimajiri, senior expert, engineering division and project lead at WOWOW, added, “We’ve been conducting these trials with a view to integrating MQA into our services in the future, including on-demand and live broadcasting.  It makes no sense that audio quality still lags behind, while video is achieving higher definition with 4k and 8k resolution display.“

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/world-first-demo-of-hi-res-audio-meets-hd-video-in-japan/

[KeenObserver]

That is actually embarrassing.

Why would you use advanced multichannel sound when you can use 1990's technology MQA.

 

MQA is going to have to accept the fact that its' time was ten or fifteen years ago.  It is a totally useless(for the music consumer) scheme.

[JoeWhip]

You have bandwidth to stream 4 k and 8k video but need MQA for audio? Really? Give me a break.

[botrytis]

47 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

All y’all gotta get on the bandwagon at some point.....

 

“Hideo Irimajiri, senior expert, engineering division and project lead at WOWOW, added, “We’ve been conducting these trials with a view to integrating MQA into our services in the future, including on-demand and live broadcasting.  It makes no sense that audio quality still lags behind, while video is achieving higher definition with 4k and 8k resolution display.“

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/world-first-demo-of-hi-res-audio-meets-hd-video-in-japan/

 

We can already do 96/24 ATMOS without MQA. I mwan you can get 4K with ATMOS off of Amazon Prime, for example 'Man in the High Castle'. Why would we want a lossy compression system? Just to please Mr. Stuart? Sorry, no, MQA is dead. You are doing the below.

 

[daverich4]

5 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

We can already do 96/24 ATMOS without MQA. I mwan you can get 4K with ATMOS off of Amazon Prime, for example 'Man in the High Castle'. Why would we want a lossy compression system? Just to please Mr. Stuart? Sorry, no, MQA is dead. You are doing the below.

 

I’m sorry, that was my fault. Ever since I got out of grade school I keep forgetting to use cute little emojis. I’ll try again, here you go...

 

 

All y’all gotta get on the bandwagon at some point..... 😂😂😂😂😂

[botrytis]

6 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

I’m sorry, that was my fault. Ever since I got out of grade school I keep forgetting to use cute little emojis. I’ll try again, here you go...

 

 

All y’all gotta get on the bandwagon at some point..... 😂😂😂😂😂

 

 

Here ya go...... Unfortunately, MQA is more like this.....

 

 

[Ralf11]

24 minutes ago, botrytis said:

MQA is dead. Y

 

 

 

 

MQA is worthless, but it is not dead until the fat lady sits on its rotting corpse and parcels out the remains in bankruptcy court

[KeenObserver]

This just in:

 

MQA Ltd has announced that it has signed up Mrs. Smith's first grade morning PA program to be broadcast in MQA. The East Podunk Grammar School will be the premier school broadcasting in MQA.  Bob Stuart made a presentation to the first graders where he showed a chart that had an arrow pointing up for MQA and an arrow pointing down for regular PA announcements.  Little Johnny said "Cool, can I go to the boy's room".  An MQA spokesperson said: " MQA continues to expand into far reaching markets".

TAS stated that this represents a paradigm shift in how grammar schools broadcast PA announcements.

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

This just in:

 

MQA Ltd has announced that it has signed up Mrs. Smith's first grade morning PA program to be broadcast in MQA. The East Podunk Grammar School will be the premier school broadcasting in MQA.  Bob Stuart made a presentation to the first graders where he showed a chart that had an arrow pointing up for MQA and an arrow pointing down for regular PA announcements.  Little Johnny said "Cool, can I go to the boy's room".  An MQA spokesperson said: " MQA continues to expand into far reaching markets".

TAS stated that this represents a paradigm shift in how grammar schools broadcast PA announcements.

Next they are heading to Springfield Heights Institute of Technology. 

[botrytis]

Oh come on - don't give shit a bad name.....

 

We all have to do it once in a while.....

[John Dyson]

3 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

This just in:

 

MQA Ltd has announced that it has signed up Mrs. Smith's first grade morning PA program to be broadcast in MQA. The East Podunk Grammar School will be the premier school broadcasting in MQA.  Bob Stuart made a presentation to the first graders where he showed a chart that had an arrow pointing up for MQA and an arrow pointing down for regular PA announcements.  Little Johnny said "Cool, can I go to the boy's room".  An MQA spokesperson said: " MQA continues to expand into far reaching markets".

TAS stated that this represents a paradigm shift in how grammar schools broadcast PA announcements.

Better yet -- South Park audio in MQA -- seems appropriate content, and seems to be somehow intellectually consistent - you know, content being laughable along with the transport.  I'd get belly laughs from MQA if the damage to audio in general and sheer stupidity wasn't so sad and possibly worrisome.   The simulated cut-out cartoon and MQA -- kind of self-consistent? :-).  Mr Hinkey comes to mind....

 

John

 

[FredericV]

14 hours ago, daverich4 said:

All y’all gotta get on the bandwagon at some point.....

 

“Hideo Irimajiri, senior expert, engineering division and project lead at WOWOW, added, “We’ve been conducting these trials with a view to integrating MQA into our services in the future, including on-demand and live broadcasting.  It makes no sense that audio quality still lags behind, while video is achieving higher definition with 4k and 8k resolution display.“

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/world-first-demo-of-hi-res-audio-meets-hd-video-in-japan/

Why would we care?

24/96 multi-channel blu-ray already exists, e.g. this movie from 2013:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Samsara-Blu-ray/51257/

This blu-ray has an average bitdepth of 32 Mbps and thus can be streamed on most broadband connections. Both audio & video are among the best on this format. In Belgium, cable ISP's now offer 300 Mbps to any customer, and for a few euro's more per month, we get gigabit.

But most video content only has a 48 Khz samplerate, and 96 Khz audio is very rare.

Furthermore I can also stream 4K + Dolby Atmos, so why would I care about a niche player like MQA who needs to fight against the big boys such as Dolby & DTS?

In Belgium we also have our own multi-channel immersive 3D format, which is Auro-3D, and while some AV processors & receivers have it, the content is very rare as this is a niche format. Even DTS:X is a small format compared to Atmos, and from a much bigger player than MQA.

We must also accept the fact, that even though Bob's previous format HD DVD failed, it was recycled into the codec behind Dolby TrueHD, so MQA may one day also be recycled into another codec:

https://the-jh-movie-collection-official.fandom.com/wiki/Dolby_TrueHD

 

We are already seeing this off the label marketing now with MQA

Also, Ultra HD Blu-ray has a peak bandwidth of 128 Mb/s, which means 4K players on a 100mbit network may stutter actually. But UHD has far less compression than Netflix, which only requires 25 Mbit for 4K, and a lot more fine details are visible with UHD BD. During high motion, this will become more obvious.

Our 32 Mbps 1080p example for a blu-ray with 7.1 24/96 audio is not far off the Netflix max bandwidth requirement. Furthermore with more efficient codecs, 4K can be encoded in the same bandwidth as our old 1080p content from 10 years ago.

The Blu-ray standards are at least a decade old, and we now have much better video codecs, which is why Netflix can get away with only 25 mbit.

 

[KeenObserver]

I cannot envision any application of MQA that would be a true benefit to the end user.  It would, of course, benefit the promoters of MQA.

 

MQA is a tax on the music consumer.

[KeenObserver]

I was hoping that when the financials came out this year it would offer a light at the end of the tunnel concerning this MQA scheme.

However, the directors indicate that they are looking for an infusion of more cash.

I suppose this finances their trips to all the trade shows to give their "presentations".

[KeenObserver]

Looking at that TAS article (infomercial),  Bob Stuart looks a little haggard on that screen.  Probably a little difficult keeping all the catch phrases straight.

 

"We're not using lossless any more, right"?

 

"How about de-blurring, are we still using de-blurring"?

 

"And throw in MQA ecosystem every chance we get,  right"?

[Rt66indierock]

6 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

I was hoping that when the financials came out this year it would offer a light at the end of the tunnel concerning this MQA scheme.

However, the directors indicate that they are looking for an infusion of more cash.

I suppose this finances their trips to all the trade shows to give their "presentations".

 

We are seeing what happens to a startup when it prematurely scales before they get the product/market fit. 

[botrytis]

8 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

We are seeing what happens to a startup prematurely scales before they get the product/market fit. 

 

Well, actual marketing research and an understanding of the market as it is, not as it was.

 

I worked for a company that built an amazing cell counter/sorter but they didn't actually research anything in the market, they just built it and were surprised that the market wouldn't pay 10X more for their instrument. This is the same thing MQA did.

[kumakuma]

37 minutes ago, botrytis said:

I worked for a company that built an amazing cell counter/sorter but they didn't actually research anything in the market, they just built it and were surprised that the market wouldn't pay 10X more for their instrument. This is the same thing MQA did.

 

A Field of Dreams approach to business is often a recipe for disaster.

[botrytis]

2 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

A Field of Dreams approach to business is often a recipe for disaster.

 

It is more arrogance than anything else. Sad really.

[JoeWhip]

I will be at The Capital Audio Fest Friday. There is a presentation scheduled for that afternoon my Mytek digital that includes MQA. Interestingly, it is right after Mark Waldrep’s presentation. I will keep an ear out for any MQA discussions as I visit the various rooms,

[KeenObserver]

I don't go to the exhibitions.  Has MQA Ltd had a presence at any of the shows this year?

[Josh Mound]

On 8/8/2019 at 10:58 AM, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

somebody mentioned Brian Lucey a few pages back, and I see we have a plea to agree MQA distorts the sound..

 

Well a quick google search turned up this reply to Jim Austin's part 2 article:

 

WOW!

Music is Distortion, not Perfection. 

Submitted by Brian Lucey on August 8, 2019 - 2:27am 

I'm late to the party it seems. Working daily in the studio will do that. 

MQA is a rude, cynical business losing millions, it's a harmonic scheme for money, it's sold as lossless which is a lie (although Austin is giving cover for that early claim of a lossless patent by saying "who cares?"). MQA is sold as Mastering Engineer Authenticated, meaning approved ... which is the lie to end all lies. Also sold as "correction" which is tough to believe someone would say with a straight face. 

 

They are bulk processing back catalogs to create a market, so MQA has zero integrity, yes Bob I mean you personally. MQA processing of approved masters is altering, meaning damaging/changing/stepping on client/producer/label/manager/artist approved work to make money for these guys. No one needs it, except Stuart and the team of greedy people on board. As a mastering engineer it's offensive without words. These men at MQA lost their Meridian business to DVD. Sorry gents, that is rough, and I feel for you ... yet do not go putting your greedy, manipulative, authoritarian fingers into the Recorded History of Music with this offensive bull sharkey. 

 

Certainly there are subjective cases of "preference" for the 'Sound of MQA', because like mp3, or Mastered for iTunes or a DA or speaker ... everything has a sound. People are people, the ego likes to have a vote. MQA processing to my ear, listening to my work pre and post MQA, has some harmonic distortion and maybe even a volume boost as a result just big enough to help win an A/B. Louder is better ! 

 

I understand audiophiles can be suckered. The mastering engineers who like this artifact might as well wave a banner saying "I can't craft untouchable masters on my own, I'm inept, so I need this artifact, randomly, all over my shoddy work!" The rest of us are 100% against this travesty for profit. 

 

And please, don't talk about the vetting. Of course one division of a major label (accounting) will overrule another (content producers), that's just corporate greed. 

 

In principle, "correction" of music is a fallacy. There is no perfection in music or music playback. Rooms, temperature, humidity, we the listener, are all in flux. Mastering finds a repeatable result knowing it's in flux. 

 

Also ... what is the personal insecurity of those of us who seek perfection with music? Music is organized distortion, from room compression to the massive additive distortion happening today with everything produced except maybe classical. We add distortion to recordings, like we alter the EQ of mono tracks in a mix ... we love distortion ... for the emotional impact. And by the mastering stage, we coalesce this cocktail of artifacts with supreme precision. Everything interacts. And it's signed off on by all parties. MQA steps on all of this. 

 

Dear folks at MQA, 16 bits is not a small file. People who care will download the larger files, not stream. And faster streaming gives MQA a death date just like DVDs, did you not learn anything? If you want to make serious money and change the world, build a better mp3. We all would love that and you would make billions. 

 

Finally, and slightly off topic. 44.1 is not inferior to 88.1 or 96k or 192. Therefore getting 192 down to 48 by (insert BS term here) is not anyone's goal who understands music production. The "more samples is better" myth is built on the notion of music as perfectionism. Conversion QUALITY is four things: Analog path, clock, converter chip and filter. 44.1 can be great. 96k can be bad. It's about the hardware in total. Perfectionism and "fixing" after mastering ... could not be more naive (giving Stewart the benefit of the doubt) and thus dangerous. 

 

Music intends four things: Intimacy, Connection, Community and Elevation. There is nothing perfect needed, possible or part of the listening transaction. In fact, we like the imperfections. The humanity. Please, stop the madness, it's rude and dumb and set to die in time anyway. 

 

The ONLY FILE that matters is the native sample rate of the mastering session. It cannot be improved in any way by anything that changes it. The rest is lies for money. Like this article, many people making money here. Even from the controversy. Get a real job. Go make some art. Create something. Or at the least, don't be complicit.

 

I was contacted by Mytek to represent MQA in LA, along with Bob Ludwig who they hoped to represent on the East Coast. They processes my work in the best way they can, and I have since heard some of my work catalog post processing. Yuk. If I wanted that distorting in there, I would have added it in the first place.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-tested-part-2-fold#OuSFKFQrkGOShLt3.99

 

 

Wow. Great stuff from Lucey!

[FredericV]

19 hours ago, JoshM said:

 

Wow. Great stuff from Lucey!

His comments confirm what we already knew: MQA and their partners work with hired guns.

 

After just hearing an interview on a local radio station how influencing works using a large existing social network, I am more and more convinced our famous now banned shill who founded the secret group, is a "key opinion maker".

This term was described in former MQA financial statements.

[KeenObserver]

1 hour ago, FredericV said:

His comments confirm what we already knew: MQA and their partners work with hired guns.

 

After just hearing an interview on a local radio station how influencing works using a large existing social network, I am more and more convinced our famous now banned shill who founded the secret group, is a "key opinion maker".

This term was described in former MQA financial statements.

 

Agree.

 

The words in the Lucey article that struck a note with me:

 

"44.1 can be great.  96K can be bad".