Popular Post mansr Posted November 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Ralf11 said: It is just an attempt to use a term from the wine world in an irrelevant way that will nonetheless attract consumers. "provenance" refers to origin, and shipping for wine - vibration and to some extent, heat can damage a wine Since those who might be interested in MQA (audiophiles) overlap with wine drinkers, they are susceptible to such marketing confusion. Nobody wants jittery wine. Ralf11, KeenObserver and esldude 1 2 Link to comment
Popular Post crenca Posted November 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2019 On 11/19/2019 at 5:58 AM, The Computer Audiophile said: Actually you’ve taken the authentication too far. It has nothing to do with quality. It only means the track hasn’t been compromised by a man in the middle attack. I'm only a 1/3 of the way through that thread but this assertion by Danny (COO of Roon) that man in the middle attacks are a problem in music is so strange. What's the motivation for anyone in the music delivery business or outside of it to slightly alter the end product? How does anyone make $money$, or achieve some other rational end (political?!??). It's another case of MQA solving problems that do not in fact exist. Roon normally attempts to play the "neutral" in the MQA debate but Danny/Roon here is showing his cards as an MQA insider and promoter. Fact is, MQA has been quite successful in winning Audiophile niche market insiders, influencers, and manufacturers (hard and soft) to their aims. Does anyone STILL believe there is not quid pro quo going on here? MikeyFresh and rn701 2 Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
KeenObserver Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 What is in it for these people to want to see MQA control music distribution? Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
Popular Post crenca Posted November 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2019 12 hours ago, james45974 said: My curious mind is wondering whether this new tack by MQA is a round about way of supporting Tidal in reaction to the latest moves by Amazon and Qobuz in the streaming business. Face it, MQA is less than zero without Tidal, and Roon is pretty tangled up in there too. Tidal may be in a big hurt and Roon has become kind of stale as of late. Ah, now this makes sense. Roon was/is/will not able to convince the 99% (Amazon, Spotify, Apple, Pandora, etc.) to give them the time of day, so Danny/COO has decided his future lies in convincing the 1% (i.e. "audiophiles") that Tidal and Qobuz (he inexplicably argues that Qobuz is on board with MQA) and thus MQA are crucial to their musical enjoyment. I would call this desperation, but it's just another day in Audiophiledom. Ran, MikeyFresh and rn701 1 1 1 Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
rn701 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, KeenObserver said: What is in it for these people to want to see MQA control music distribution? That'$ a rhetorical que$tion, right? MikeyFresh 1 Link to comment
Popular Post crenca Posted November 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, KeenObserver said: What is in it for these people to want to see MQA control music distribution? Survival, relevance, and hopefully a positive balance sheet of these 1% "audiophile" niche products such as Roon. Ishmael Slapowitz and MikeyFresh 1 1 Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
Popular Post KeenObserver Posted November 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2019 You can believe that MQA Provenance is the real thing. After all, MQA is a lossless, deblurring, time correcting system that has been honest and forthright from day one about what it does! How about that. Did I do that with a straight face? Ishmael Slapowitz, botrytis, yahooboy and 3 others 1 5 Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
Ishmael Slapowitz Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 27 minutes ago, crenca said: Ah, now this makes sense. Roon was/is/will not able to convince the 99% (Amazon, Spotify, Apple, Pandora, etc.) to give them the time of day, so Danny/COO has decided his future lies in convincing the 1% (i.e. "audiophiles") that Tidal and Qobuz (he inexplicably argues that Qobuz is on board with MQA) and thus MQA are crucial to their musical enjoyment. I would call this desperation, but it's just another day in Audiophiledom. I disagree with your take on Roon. As a Roon customer, I think it is state of the art in playback and cataloging. I have never experienced any effort to convince me that I "need" MQA, Tidal, or Qobuz. I maintain a large local library and it works perfectly for my needs. Roon is 100% a hifi product not different than a tube preamp or a stand alone DAC, it never was intended for the "masses" and there never was an attempt to "convince" anybody. Please note I was a MAJOR Roon skeptic when first introduced, and I thought was a fly by night hipster product. I was wrong. Any way, i really doubt Roon users give a damn about MQA unless they only listen to Tidal. Link to comment
Popular Post shadowlight Posted November 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, crenca said: Ah, now this makes sense. Roon was/is/will not able to convince the 99% (Amazon, Spotify, Apple, Pandora, etc.) to give them the time of day, so Danny/COO has decided his future lies in convincing the 1% (i.e. "audiophiles") that Tidal and Qobuz (he inexplicably argues that Qobuz is on board with MQA) and thus MQA are crucial to their musical enjoyment. I would call this desperation, but it's just another day in Audiophiledom. The day Qobuz forces MQA only stream they will lose me as customer. rn701, r0dd3r5, MikeyFresh and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment
Popular Post rn701 Posted November 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, KeenObserver said: You can believe that MQA Provenance is the real thing. After all, MQA is a lossless, deblurring, time correcting system that has been honest and forthright from day one about what it does! How about that. Did I do that with a straight face? I understand Bob Stuart contacted the Jimi Hendrix estate to observe production of the MQA master for Band of Gypsies and they authenticated that the blue light came on. /onion MikeyFresh, The Computer Audiophile, yahooboy and 2 others 5 Link to comment
crenca Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said: I disagree with your take on Roon. As a Roon customer, I think it is state of the art in playback and cataloging. I have never experienced any effort to convince me that I "need" MQA, Tidal, or Qobuz. I maintain a large local library and it works perfectly for my needs. Roon is 100% a hifi product not different than a tube preamp or a stand alone DAC, it never was intended for the "masses" and there never was an attempt to "convince" anybody. Please note I was a MAJOR Roon skeptic when first introduced, and I thought was a fly by night hipster product. I was wrong. Any way, i really doubt Roon users give a damn about MQA unless they only listen to Tidal. I sort of want to pat you on the head and say "your a good kid" 😋 Roon needs streaming more than they need just about anything else, or at least as much as they need anything. I am a lifer Roon customer, but I would not be if "all" it did (and yes, it does it very well) was handle my own catalog in a "Hi Fi" way. In any case, here is how I put it to Danny: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/provenance-and-mqa/83875/126 edit: Danny censured my post. Here it is in full: "...MQA is closer to an objectively better model of provenance than anyone before them..." This is not true. The boutique (most of them considered "audiophile") labels identified and "fixed" the province "problem" (such as it is) years ago, which itself is a subset of the "quality" problem. I am trying to figure out the substance your support of this "provence" angle of $selling$ MQA Danny, beyond your obvious and explicit admiration and respect for Bob Stuart. He does have my respect, though it is the respect I give all more or less successful con men. Here is one possible explanation: Roon is a niche "audiophile" product, though you would like it to be more. Streaming is important to Roon customers. With the uncertainty in streaming (Amazon being the most recent potential disruptor) you and your customers are "anxious" (to choose a word) with Roon's de facto lock-in with two of the smallest and nich streaming players, Tidal and Qobuz. I suspect that Amazon, Spotify, Apple, and the rest are not interested in Roon integration, not even a little bit. Market realities are such that Roon and "audiophiles" are not worth anything beyond token efforts. So how does Roon support Tidal? Well, you could argue that it and MQA "solves" a problem, such as your peculiar take on "provence". This is par for the course and right out of the MQA playbook and has been from the very beginning. MQA in all it's aspects is about control, control of the (digital) product and management of the (consumers) rights. Provence (like every other aspect of MQA - bandwidth and "green", so called "time domain" and filtering strategery, etc. etc).is just another sales attempt, another confidence angle, and for Roon specifically a way to support partners and excite customers by being able to claim Roon is not static/stale and is solving problems we did not even know we had. Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Quality_Authenticated#Criticism Link to comment
ShawnC Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said: I disagree with your take on Roon. As a Roon customer, I think it is state of the art in playback and cataloging. I have never experienced any effort to convince me that I "need" MQA, Tidal, or Qobuz. I maintain a large local library and it works perfectly for my needs. Roon is 100% a hifi product not different than a tube preamp or a stand alone DAC, it never was intended for the "masses" and there never was an attempt to "convince" anybody. Please note I was a MAJOR Roon skeptic when first introduced, and I thought was a fly by night hipster product. I was wrong. Any way, i really doubt Roon users give a damn about MQA unless they only listen to Tidal. I agree although lifetime membership just went up to $699 with the new software release today. Computer setup - Roon/Qobuz - PS Audio P5 Regenerator - HIFI Rose 250A Streamer - Emotiva XPA-2 Harbeth P3ESR XD - Rel R-528 Sub Comfy Chair - Schitt Jotunheim - Meze Audio Empyrean w/Mitch Barnett's Accurate Sound FilterSet Link to comment
rn701 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, crenca said: Roon needs streaming more than they need just about anything else, This. Integration with qobuz (and only for radio) is the only reason I'm keeping roon for another year, having just reupped this month, and before seeing this new rushed, underwhelming release rollout. crenca 1 Link to comment
rn701 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 P.S. love how the roon worship cult comes out on their forum at the first sign of turbulance and whiner posts get moved, locked or modded. Paging JimH! Link to comment
Popular Post Daccord Posted November 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2019 44 minutes ago, KeenObserver said: You can believe that MQA Provenance is the real thing. After all, MQA is a lossless, deblurring, time correcting system that has been honest and forthright from day one about what it does! How about that. Did I do that with a straight face? And there is NO DRM! MikeyFresh and crenca 2 Link to comment
Ishmael Slapowitz Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 44 minutes ago, ShawnC said: I agree although lifetime membership just went up to $699 with the new software release today. Wow. I paid $500. Pretty decent jump. From the release notes, it looks the new version offers significant improvements. Let's see. ShawnC 1 Link to comment
Popular Post KeenObserver Posted November 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2019 I just went through that ROON thread. The whole thing sounded like Lee speak. I found it offensive the way he insulted Chris like he was a little kid that did not do his homework at RMAF 2018. After reading that thread I would not touch ROON with a ten foot pole. MikeyFresh, yahooboy, Jeff_N and 1 other 2 2 Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted November 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2019 Roon now gives users the ability to select HiFi rather than “Master” for Tidal. Archimago, crenca, rn701 and 1 other 2 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post KeenObserver Posted November 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2019 I went back and took another look at MQA's behavior at RMAF2018 to refresh my memory. It is a frightening thought that these are the people that want to control the music distribution process and assure the "Provenance" of the recordings. Shadders, maxijazz, Thuaveta and 4 others 6 1 Boycott Warner Boycott Tidal Boycott Roon Boycott Lenbrook Link to comment
Sonicularity Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Roon now gives users the ability to select HiFi rather than “Master” for Tidal. I didn't think that Tidal even offered HiFi outside of the MQA versions, unless they are referring to 16/44 FLAC as HiFi. Link to comment
Popular Post Samuel T Cogley Posted November 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2019 I just went and looked at the last 20 posts in that Roon thread. The first comment I'll make is that Danny, in my experience as a Roon user and occasional contributor to that forum, never admits he's wrong about anything. He always digs in and doubles down. That's just who he is. My other comment is that I thought @The Computer Audiophile did a great service to this community by framing the MQA debate from the perspective of someone who loves recorded music. You'll never convince those people (I used to be one back in the HDCD days) who just want a light to illuminate. Those people will always want the "latest and greatest" and they are, as @crenca might say, the primary "marks" of the Audiophile Confidence Game. I admit I use Roon for one thing: getting the Qobuz stream to my DAC with as little adulteration as possible. The product and its user base have evolved into a bit of a cult IMHO. I'm also an Audirvana+ user and perhaps it's time to cut Roon loose. I probably don't even need it anymore. rn701, Ran, crenca and 2 others 1 3 1 Link to comment
crenca Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: My other comment is that I thought @The Computer Audiophile did a great service to this community by framing the MQA debate from the perspective of someone who loves recorded music. Chris's comment here is excellent: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/provenance-and-mqa/83875/153 15 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: I admit I use Roon for one thing: getting the Qobuz stream to my DAC with as little adulteration as possible. The product and its user base have evolved into a bit of a cult IMHO. I'm also an Audirvana+ user and perhaps it's time to cut Roon loose. I probably don't even need it anymore. I too am no longer 'ga ga' over the meta data and pretty-picture-presentation. I stream 75% of the time now probably. I still appreciate how Roon makes DSP easy (EQ, crossfeed, etc.) , but the fact is I can do the same thing in JRiver with a bit more effort. Samuel T Cogley 1 Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
crenca Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, Sonicularity said: I didn't think that Tidal even offered HiFi outside of the MQA versions, unless they are referring to 16/44 FLAC as HiFi. Yep, "HiFi" is Tidal's 16/44 tier and always has been. Sonicularity 1 Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
MikeyFresh Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said: I admit I use Roon for one thing: getting the Qobuz stream to my DAC with as little adulteration as possible. The product and its user base have evolved into a bit of a cult IMHO. I'm also an Audirvana+ user and perhaps it's time to cut Roon loose. I probably don't even need it anymore. If Qobuz streaming is your primary use case, you can certainly drop Roon for Audirvana, the Qobuz integration there is quite good in my experience. Samuel T Cogley 1 Boycott HDtracks Boycott Lenbrook Boycott Warner Music Group Link to comment
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