MQA is Vaporware

[mansr]

Oh dear. All the graphs I've made and posted here also have a 4:3 aspect ratio. I'd better call my lawyer.

[Axial]

8 minutes ago, esldude said:

Over the years I've seen Bob give presentations or interviews where he was very scientific and in others be very much the listening ear audiophile.  He tailored his message for the audience.  So I referred to good ole Bob the audiophile as opposed to Robert the author of AES papers.  So yes sometimes it is the name.  With MQA he has tried doing both at once and it doesn't really work. 

 

Bob is one of my favorite audio gurus. When the first Meridian CD player was created I was there listening to it with mesmerizing awe. Some of his digital analyses, mathematical constructions are the basis of today's my own philosophy. 

But times fly and new mathematical constructions are offered. 

It's a constant moving world with a solid ground moving with it. 

If the majority is not swinging in harmony to the rhythm time for a better change. 

 

Yes, I take the AES papers seriously; it's the scientific base of audio analyses and theories and discoveries and measures and mathematical constructions.

It's almost like a bible, in constant renouvellement. ...The art of applying the masterings. 

 

[FredericV]

10 minutes ago, John_Atkinson said:

 

No, but I did create the graphs featured in the iFi white paper. All the graphs I create for publication in Stereophile have a unique aspect ratio and other identifying features. We do not allow third parties to make use of our copyrighted content without permission.

 

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

 

Can you prove this? The graphs from iFi are black & white, while the ones from your mag are directly from an AP workstation.

I could run an impulse through the iFI and measure the exact same response. Why would a vendor use a magazine for their plots? Does not make any sense.

e.g. bottom plot

[Axial]

There was an article not too long ago, and one of the member's here also has read it. That was dead on appropriately tropic. 

It was mentioned from various medias of the Internet café.

But here again that one from that member who has already posted that link ... Mr. mansr

• https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/06/hipsters_all_look_the_same_fact/

 

P.S. Sorry for the typos, it's my Irish blood.

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

 

Again, it depends. I would guess that you can probably think of circumstances in which a way of presenting data might be an original work of authorship and copyrightable.  And once again, no, I don't particularly feel like being drawn into a discussion of what circumstances. I come here for a break from my work, not to do more of it.

 

ok, here is one example:

 

a map - ordinarily they are copyrightable

 

but if you put a deliberate error in the map (or a list of telephone numbers) then presto chango !!  it is now an original work and protectabel (like a deci-bel)

 

- this was the state of federal law in the mid-1990s, always possible it changed since, or changed in some circuits but not others (!)

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

I would guess that you can probably think of circumstances in which a way of presenting data might be an original work of authorship and copyrightable.

 

I thought I might recommend a good book (thank goodness not a law book!). The subject is evolutionary biology, from the very fine science writer David Quammen.  The title is The Tangled Tree.  Its subject is the fascinating history of representing the relationships among past and present life on Earth as a tree.

[Ralf11]

have not read it but I'm pro-bush on this matter

[rando]

Too much ire.  Not enough Irish.  

 

Sláinte 

 

 

 

[John_Atkinson]

1 hour ago, FredericV said:

Can you prove this?

 

Yes. I have the originals in my measurements archive. See

 

1 hour ago, FredericV said:

 

The graphs from iFi are black & white, while the ones from your mag are directly from an AP workstation.

 

In recent years, yes. The older graphs, which are what iFi used without permission, were generated with a scientific graph-plotting program using data captured by an antique Heathkit digital oscilloscope.

 

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

 

[fung0]

On 3/16/2019 at 11:43 AM, John Dyson said:

See Google/Facebook for the expected kind of control and manipulation of the people.   Frankly, I believe Facebook to actually be inferior to what really should be happening -- and is functionally not all that big of a deal.  However, it is popular, and the fact that it is so popular that it can exert control over speech (proven politcial control, for example.)

 

In fact, it has been suggested (especially in Europe) that the solution to Facebook's dominance is forcing the company to open its communication protocol. That would mean anyone could build a 'facebook' client, and messages posted to any of those clients would be seen by any of the others. Some clients might offer a paid plan with no advertising. Others might offer extra features that would appeal to certain types of user.

 

Currently, Facebook is the equivalent of one company owning the telephone system, so no one has any choice but to use their 'handsets' and their cost structure, at any terms they dictate. Of course, you can theoretically use the Brand X social media platform - but you won't be able to contact anyone you know. Not because Facebook is so brilliant technically, but because 2.5 billion people are already on Facebook's platform.

 

This is very much where MQA is taking audio - ironically, after the distribution system had finally standardized on reasonably open technologies. Even if MQA was the greatest revolution of all time in sound quality, it wouldn't be worth it.

[Ralf11]

10 minutes ago, John_Atkinson said:

The older graphs, which are what iFi used without permission, ...

 

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

 

 

 

ah, well we may now have a failure to enforce issue 🤣

[fung0]

On 3/16/2019 at 2:37 PM, rando said:

What you have effectively stated is we should accept MQA, which does not have region coding and does not have DRM, before someone bigger comes along and forces a format along the order of BD on us.

 

I don't know  how you could possibly read my example that way.

 

No, MQA does not have 'region coding,' specifically. (Thank heaven for small mercies.) But MQA does have 'authentication' and other forms of DRM (and is tailored to implement still more, include actual copy protection, if and when it has gained enough market share). MQA is also more complex and more proprietary than, say, FLAC. Finally, just like BD, MQA is being pushed out with no regard for market preference, by large corporate forces... which happen to Include Sony, the prime mover in the triumph of BD over HD DVD.

 

Can't put it any more plainly than that. If you still don't see it, it's because you don't want to.

[Sonicularity]

23 hours ago, Miska said:

 

For search, I've been using solely DuckDuckGo for quite a while. It is actually better!

 

 

22 hours ago, mansr said:

The name doesn't easily verb, though.

 

14 hours ago, esldude said:

I just say DDG search. 

 

Just "Duck" it!

[Racerxnet]

26 minutes ago, John_Atkinson said:

 

Yes. I have the originals in my measurements archive. See

 

 

In recent years, yes. The older graphs, which are what iFi used without permission, were generated with a scientific graph-plotting program using data captured by an antique Heathkit digital oscilloscope.

 

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

 

 

Sounds like a bunch of flee’s arguing over who owns the dogs back. 

 

MAK

[fung0]

On 3/16/2019 at 5:51 PM, Shadders said:

As an off-topic example of Windows 10 Telemetry :

 

Not off-topic at all. I've resisted bringing up this example myself only because I felt it had been over-used around the Internet.

 

But telemetry is only part of the problem with Windows. The big issue is loss of choice. Currently, my PCs all run either Windows 7 or Linux. But next time I need to upgrade my hardware, Windows 7 will not be an option - not because users demanded this, but because Microsoft and Intel have agreed it should be that way. Nor is there any Windows 'competitor' that can offer me a reasonably compatible alternative - say, with no telemetry, no advertising, no 'Metro' tablet-oriented controls, no built-in DRM, etc.

 

The computing 'tech' press has been largely silent on all this. Occasionally, they criticize Windows 10 on minor points. But even when there's a major disaster, such as a forced update that 'bricks' large numbers of PCs, there's no general furor - it's treated as 'just one of those things,' and there's constructive criticism of Microsoft's QA process. Nobody in the computer press exerts pressure for Microsoft to be broken up - for that, you have to go to outsiders like Ralph Nader.

 

At this point, Windows is about a decade behind where it should be technically. But it has something like 1.5 billion (legal) users and around 90% share of the personal computer market, so Microsoft can do whatever it likes. Music is a little looser, with four companies (it is still four, isn't it?) splitting the bulk of the business, but the problem is essentially the same.

[mansr]

1 hour ago, John_Atkinson said:

The older graphs, which are what iFi used without permission

If this is really what happened, iFi are even more ridiculous than I had imagined.

[Jud]

36 minutes ago, mansr said:

If this is really what happened, iFi are even more ridiculous than I had imagined.

 

Should we paraphrase Freeman Dyson? "iFi is not only more ridiculous than you imagine, it is more ridiculous than you *can* imagine."

 

Edit: I like my DAC. Firmware apparently the cause of some irritating problems, though.

[mansr]

22 hours ago, mansr said:

I hooked the Nano up to the logic analyser and grabbed some data. It was more interesting than I expected. More tomorrow.

 

[rando]

1 hour ago, fung0 said:

 

I don't know  how you could possibly read my example that way.

 

No, MQA does not have 'region coding,' specifically. (Thank heaven for small mercies.) But MQA does have 'authentication' and other forms of DRM (and is tailored to implement still more, include actual copy protection, if and when it has gained enough market share). MQA is also more complex and more proprietary than, say, FLAC. Finally, just like BD, MQA is being pushed out with no regard for market preference, by large corporate forces... which happen to Include Sony, the prime mover in the triumph of BD over HD DVD.

 

Can't put it any more plainly than that. If you still don't see it, it's because you don't want to.

 

The analogy you drew was no less imperfect than the interpretation it garnered.  I've seen next to nothing that would even jokingly draw comparison of Meridian to Sony...  I was having a bit of fun with the social consequences of bucking peer pressure here by distorting your meaning to reflect a turnabout of emotions. If one of the few major players did actually get involved. The only sound we'd hear from MQA would be pieces of it getting scraped off the ground

 

Quite honestly this was about making a point there is no counterpart to, competition for, MQA.  There is competition over MQA.  

[Paul R]

3 hours ago, fung0 said:

 

 

Can't put it any more plainly than that. If you still don't see it, it's because you don't want to.

 

Or because such a conspiracy just plain and simple does not exist. 

 

Do do you have any proof at all that it does? Any documentation more damning  than some hooks left in the code that possibly could be used for DRM. 

The slightest shred of evidence that it actually has been used that way, or that MQA has proposed such to the labels? 

 

 

[Paul R]

3 hours ago, Sonicularity said:

 

 

 

Just "Duck" it!

Oh, go get quacked!  🤪

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 hours ago, John_Atkinson said:

 

No, but I did create the graphs featured in the iFi white paper. All the graphs I create for publication in Stereophile have a unique aspect ratio and other identifying features. We do not allow third parties to make use of our copyrighted content without permission.

 

John Atkinson

Editor, Stereophile

Let’s ask @AMR/iFi audio  

[Paul R]

5 hours ago, kumakuma said:

 

I thought so too but the article I linked to appears to be saying that even this isn't usually copyright infringement.

 

 

 

I read it and he makes some good points, but 

6 hours ago, kumakuma said:

 

I thought so too but the article I linked to appears to be saying that even this isn't usually copyright infringement.

 

 

 

Yes, but also remember that paper was written n 2011, and I don't know if he was or was not a student at that time, but it seems likely. 

 

This is a tad bit more official, and gives a better overview. It is a pretty clear description of what cannot be copyrighted and why. 

 

 https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ33.pdf

 

[kumakuma]

1 hour ago, Paul R said:

 

Yes, but also remember that paper was written n 2011, and I don't know if he was or was not a student at that time, but it seems likely. 

 

 

 

His LinkedIn profile shows him getting his J.D. in 2008.

[fung0]

6 hours ago, rando said:

The analogy you drew was no less imperfect than the interpretation it garnered.  I've seen next to nothing that would even jokingly draw comparison of Meridian to Sony...

 

I made no comparison between Meridian (MQA Inc.) and Sony. The common factor in both cases - video disc formats and music distribution formats - is how standards can be skewed by pressure from huge corporate actors like Sony (which, oddly enough, happens to play in both markets).

 

The example of Blu-ray should speak to anyone who would contend that there's no fear of MQA taking over audio distribution. It can be done, it has been done. And it will be done again if consumers allow it.