MQA is Vaporware

[Jud]

1 hour ago, fung0 said:

Microsoft won the browser wars because it added features that users could appreciate, while Netscape decided to rewrite its codebase.

 

In fact the way MS won the browser wars is extremely reminiscent of what MQA is doing now, so it is an object lesson to us regarding what we should be mindful of.

 

MS did two things:

 

- First, by using their advantage as the OS on most home computers, they acted anti-competitively to push IE over Netscape.  This is quite reminiscent of the way that MQA is seeking to attain "critical mass" by entering into agreements with the big music companies so they can push MQA and squeeze out hi res.

 

- Second, MS broke standardization for web browsers (for example, the security nightmare of ActiveX rather than plugins) just as MQA is not adhering to open standards like FLAC for compression.  Then whenever someone would attempt to browse the Web with Netscape or other standards-compliant browsers and encountered many sites that had been built to work with the non-standards-compliant IE, they thought it was Netscape that didn't work correctly, just as many MQA DACs will keep MQA filters on with non-MQA material, convincing people that the non-MQA material sounds bad because of the leaky MQA filters.

[Paul R]

4 hours ago, mansr said:

They helped popularise the IBM PC, an open platform (more or less). Without it, we'd have been locked into the Apple "ecosystem."

 

The PC was very much a closed system until Compaq white-room reversed engineered  the IBM proprietary BIOS. Before that time, Apple (i.e. Apple 2e) was much more open. 

 

OS/2 was the IBM - Microsoft attempt to regain control and lock down the PC.  Did nit work because they could not agree to how much control each one had. 

 

 

[Rt66indierock]

2 minutes ago, Paul R said:

 

The PC was verymuch a clised system until Compaq white-room reversed engineere d the IBM proprietary BIOS. Before that time, Apple (i.e. Apple 2e) was much more open. 

 

OS/2 was the IBM - Microsoft attempt to regain control and lock down the PC.  Did nit work because they could not agree to how much control each one had. 

 

 

 

I recall OS/2 killed a large tax return processing company SCS Compute / Dynatax because it didn't work. 

[mansr]

11 minutes ago, Paul R said:

The PC was very much a closed system until Compaq white-room reversed engineered  the IBM proprietary BIOS.

They did that to clone the platform itself. IBM never had a problem with anyone writing software or making add-on cards for their PCs.

[John Dyson]

1 hour ago, fung0 said:

 

I remember RMS pushing the idea of open systems back in the early 1980s, about a decade before Linus turned up. He has remained absolutely uncompromising ever since. The GPL, in particular, changed the face of technology - I was astonished when reviewing a high-end LG TV a few years ago, to find that half the user manual was a copy of the GPL.

 

There would be no open alternatives today without RMS, and they wouldn't be nearly as good without Linus. So we really have to forgive their quirks.

Free and open alternatives have been around since WAY before RMS (e.g. DECUS in the '60s/early '70s -- I was there.)  The difference with RMS is the political idealism -- and how it caught on.  That political idealism biased where the resources went (the slight leftism of GPL, and young idealistic people who don't fully understand the ramifications.)  Free should be free (not like white as in 'black' -- admittedly exaggerated.)  The term 'open' is certainly less dishonest, and I do accept that.

My negative attitude about GPL doesn't come  from the mechanics of the license (it can be utilized for good), but rather the premise of 'free as in not-free' sales mumbo-jumbo...  Turned me off immediately on people who can accept that kind of argument.  Again, it isn't the mechanics, rather it is the activism and overstatement (redefining words.)   This honesty thing is important to me.

 

John

[crenca]

35 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

I recall OS/2 killed a large tax return processing company SCS Compute / Dynatax because it didn't work. 

 

One of my last Corp IT gigs was at a casino in Louisiana.  OS/2 was integral to their back end infrastructure, and they had no plan to update, though it was all stable enough.  I got out before the $%*t hit the fan 😋

[Paul R]

3 hours ago, mansr said:

I have met both Linus and RMS in person. One of them made me start looking for the fastest escape route. It wasn't Linus.

 

Uh oh - this thread has to stop. Mansr and I have had the same experience and agree 100% about something!!!  

Maybe this is a parallel universe? 

 

Linux is great stuff, so is BSD, and in fact, so is Minix and OS/2 and MacOS, and FreeBSD, and iOS, and even IOS,  and even Windows. Great to have choices.

[Paul R]

47 minutes ago, mansr said:

They did that to clone the platform itself. IBM never had a problem with anyone writing software or making add-on cards for their PCs.

 

Oh, yes they did. Look up the history of Hercules video cards, and how they were strangled by IBM until the clone BIOS came out.

 

And Apple had third party cards, such as C/PM 8086 processors that simply plugged into a slot in the Apple 2e.  Macs have *always* been open that way, with built in networking, SCSI, and later with slots and co-processors.  The only thing proprietary about Macs were the BIOS, and that was completely open and documented. In seven rather huge volumes in fact. 

 

[Paul R]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

OK, anybody hear about that new thing called MQA?

 

Oh my, I thought it quacked up and died? Ancient history maybe? 😁

[John Dyson]

One comment -- this license thing might not appear to be associated with audio -- but from my limited viewpoint -- it is.  It is about intellectual property and how control of such property can coerce certain behaviors.  In my own case, when I decide to give something way -- it IS free.  I do ask one thing -- a bit of attribution.  (Refer to hydrogenaudio, and the simple compressor that I made available.)

It is my style to say something is free and non-coercive when it IS free and non-coercive.  Stuff like MQA have an element of coercion bordering on control -- BEYOND the superficial license terms. (MQA doesn't claim to be 'free' or anything like that, but it DOES have some coercive effects.)   Such things should either be avoided or the effects/side-effects need to be well publicized.  THIS is why I started thinking & writing about the subject.

[Paul R]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

I recall OS/2 killed a large tax return processing company SCS Compute / Dynatax because it didn't work. 

 

That was Bob Nolan’s company wasn’t it? He built and ran it with his son. If I recall correctly, they were DOS based (or maybe Unix on a TRS80 model 16) but they did not want to spend the money to upgrade to Windows.  Also Bob Sr. wanted to retire. Thompson bought them for 34 million or something like that. 

 

Don’t think OS/2 had much to do with it, but could be remembering wrong. 

 

[Rt66indierock]

3 minutes ago, Paul R said:

 

That was Bob Nolan’s company wasn’t it? He built and ran it with his son. If I recall correctly, they were DOS based (or maybe Unix on a TRS80 model 16) but they did not want to spend the money to upgrade to Windows.  Also Bob Sr. wanted to retire. Thompson bought them for 34 million or something like that. 

 

Don’t think OS/2 had much to do with it, but could be remembering wrong. 

 

 

Paul,  they were a mainframe based system. You sent in input sheets and got back tax returns. I was at the sharp end of the stick and was haunted by the decision to stay with them in 1989. OS/2 had issues, I had tax clients tasked to write development tools and they were struggling with it.

[Paul R]

Maybe I am thinking of a different company then. The one I am thinking of was not IBM mainframe based. The did have data entry at the client end, and uploaded data to something.

[Rt66indierock]

16 minutes ago, Paul R said:

Maybe I am thinking of a different company then. The one I am thinking of was not IBM mainframe based. The did have data entry at the client end, and uploaded data to something.

 

For 1989 tax year (1990) I went to processing tax returns in house what happened afterward don't really know and don't care about. I'm still using the same very expensive software today. 

[Shadders]

3 hours ago, fung0 said:

Apologies for the 'digression,' by the way - but all this really is relevant to a discussion of MQA.

 

The point I was originally trying to make was that MQA is part of a larger regressive movement in consumer technology, pushing in the direction of proprietary anti-consumer 'innovation.' Countering that pressure will require an understanding of the historical context.

 

It will also need activists like Richard Stallman or Linus Torvalds. Or musician John Perry Barlow, who began his work on the Electronic Frontier Foundation in discussion threads like this one.

Hi,

The Windows applications all seem to heading towards a subscription model. A lot of previously lifetime purchase software is now available only as a subscription - and it is the most popular software that has moved to this model.

 

I think MQA is a similar approach - whether the record companies will try to force such a model as a long term strategy is unknown.

 

Regards,

Shadders.

[rando]

11 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

OK, anybody hear about that new thing called MQA?

 

Shhh!!!  Oh, it might be too late now. You disturbed them. 

 

Shame that as I thought we were going to bear witness to a mating ritual, gestation, and gloriously compiled birth upon the ground of AS.  Such an unpredictable and heralded event simply can't be anticipated by clearing suitable environs free of predators.  

 

Tremulous concerns still rock the air.  If by chance it happens.  I hope they issue it a code name name bearing your mark of 10 years in excellence. 

[lucretius]

On 3/20/2019 at 1:26 PM, Paul R said:

On 3/20/2019 at 12:34 PM, mansr said:

They did that to clone the platform itself. IBM never had a problem with anyone writing software or making add-on cards for their PCs. 

 

On 3/20/2019 at 1:26 PM, Paul R said:

Oh, yes they did. Look up the history of Hercules video cards, and how they were strangled by IBM until the clone BIOS came out

 

And what about Micro Channel Architecture and IBM's anti-clone practices?

[Paul R]

1 hour ago, lucretius said:

 

 

And what about Micro Channel Architecture and IBM's anti-clone practices?

 

Ohhh. now MQCA, that was *evil*.

[Rt66indierock]

Getting this back on topic we should get a list of questions to ask the MQA people at AXPONA in April. My first question would be to Ken Forsythe.  What are your qualifications? All I see is sales on your LinkedIn profile.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

You seriously think there will be audience questions?

[mansr]

19 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You seriously think there will be audience questions?

There will be a great discussion once the presenter has left the room.

[Rt66indierock]

13 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You seriously think there will be audience questions?

 

I'm considering giving them my questions in advance.

[mav52]

18 minutes ago, mansr said:

There will be a great discussion once the presenter has left the room.

 

Maybe the people in the audience can start beating on tables, and shouting all while interrupting the presenter , sound familiar.

[Rt66indierock]

3 minutes ago, mav52 said:

 

Maybe the people in the audience can start beating on tables, and shouting all while interrupting the presenter , sound familiar.

 

Wouldn't it be more fun to politely ask questions they can't answer?

[mansr]

5 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

Wouldn't it be more fun to politely ask questions they can't answer?

What would be really funny would be if nobody turned up.