A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Cornan]

4 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Just where are all these reports?  A listening report would include a protocol stating how the test was setup, how the proctor kept the listener blind, how many different listeners, how many tests each listener did and of course results.

 

Any useful report must be repeatable and reproducible.

 

With all due respect (and I DO respect you) a listening report based on statistics is not trustable. My high school statistics teacher taught me that there is three lies. Statistics, statistics and damn statistics! ?

[sandyk]

5 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Just where are all these reports?  A listening report would include a protocol stating how the test was setup, how the proctor kept the listener blind, how many different listeners, how many tests each listener did and of course results.

 

Any useful report must be repeatable and reproducible.

 The vast majority of C.A. members who report hearing differences couldn't give a damn about performing lengthy documented reports just to humour E.E.s and Software Writer members of the forum.

 They post their impressions so that other C.A. members can try these things for themselves, and see if they can also obtain SQ improvements.

 

That's what a hobby is all about !!!

[Cornan]

On 2017-12-12 at 7:43 AM, ElviaCaprice said:

No doubt.  But what does this have to do with this thread and the pursuit of best SQ?  I can understand your wanting something that functions for the whole family, but that has nothing to do with this thread.  

Frankly, I've always found your approach to audio complex and confusing, basically all over the place.  Simplicity was never your motto.  So now it is.  Too funny.

Instead of a reply with an ansult I choose to come in peace. Have I ever diminished your setup? Have I ever tried to convince you to change beleives? I honestly accepts your path and are NOT trying to convince you to accept mine. All roads leads to Rome, but no road leads you to the end of the road! That final road is up to you and everyone else to explore.

 

[ElviaCaprice]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

Instead of a reply with an ansult I choose to come in peace. Have I ever diminished your setup? Have I ever tried to convince you to change beleives? I honestly accepts your path and are NOT trying to convince you to accept mine. All roads leads to Rome, but no road leads you to the end of the road! That final road is up to you and everyone else to explore.

 

No problem, my bad, I was a little too harsh.

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

... a listening report based on statistics is not trustable. My high school statistics teacher taught me that there is three lies. Statistics, statistics and damn statistics! ?

 

may I suggest a few university courses in statistics??

[MikeyFresh]

7 hours ago, Speedskater said:

A listening report would include a protocol stating how the test was setup, how the proctor kept the listener blind, how many different listeners, how many tests each listener did and of course results.

 

Any useful report must be repeatable and reproducible.

 

Thats just your own personal take/opinion, others are free to see it differently, and many of us do.

[Speedskater]

2 hours ago, Cornan said:

With all due respect (and I DO respect you) a listening report based on statistics is not trustable. My high school statistics teacher taught me that there is three lies. Statistics, statistics and damn statistics! ?

I'm not at all interested in statistics or for that matter playing statistic games. I'm interested in listeners, that can do blind demos of what they write about.

[Speedskater]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

The vast majority of C.A. members who report hearing differences couldn't give a damn about performing lengthy documented reports just to humour E.E.s and Software Writer members of the forum.

OK so do some quick and dirty blind listening tests.

 

As Art Dudley of Stereophile Magazine wrote:

Audio enthusiasts are given to reporting any number of things.

 

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

They post their impressions so that other C.A. members can try these things for themselves, and see if they can also obtain SQ improvements.

That's what a hobby is all about !!!

In the past, the hobby was about real supportable improvements, not just wasting time and money.

[MikeyFresh]

3 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

not just wasting time and money.

 

Whose time and money?

 

If yours, then you might deem it a waste. If someone else's time or money, you are not in a position to deem it a waste, only they might make that determination. After all, it's their time and money.

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

OK so do some quick and dirty blind listening tests.

 

As Art Dudley of Stereophile Magazine wrote:

Audio enthusiasts are given to reporting any number of things.

 

In the past, the hobby was about real supportable improvements, not just wasting time and money.

 Utter crap !

 Do Photography enthusiasts need to provide absolute proof of everything they suggest, or high performance car enthusiasts like yourself , with a stable of high performance cars, need to provide irrefutable proof of every tuning tweak they claim helped to improve performance, or perhaps increased reliability  ? 

Many will even swear that XYZ Brand Motor Oil will yield higher performance or increased Miles per gallon.

This also applies to the Oil Manufacturers advertisements too, with often unsupported claims.

 

N.B.

 I am NOT talking about Official Organisations , just hobby type forums where members exchange information.

[sandyk]

52 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

yes they do

 

many Photography enthusiasts pay a lot of attention to sensor & lens testing

 

for cars, we have engine dynos & racetracks

 

I was  talking about hobby type forums where members exchange information.

 Again, it's PURELY ANECDOTAL. It is NOT incontestable proof .

Opinions in this area , just as with Audio, are almost as common as assholes !

Engine Dynos and racetracks are normally for Professionals, not for your general motoring enthusiast.

and very few would pay extra to have new software installed for their engine management , although a few may choose to do so, and have a Dyno test performed after it's installation, against a reference from published specifications from the manufacturer.  

I also doubt that there is a clear winner in all cases of software engine management packages for non racing type vehicles.

 

I was talking about enthusiast forums , such as the Mitsubishi Forum, or Ford or Holden Forum etc.

There are Members of the Trade among the members, who may offer advice ( not always unbiased)  but normally not from the Motor Vehicle company itself !

[austinpop]

As OP - I am going to just stipulate that this thread is about listening impressions. We do not:

1. Demand proof
2. Require a specific methodology
3. Require measurements.

Further, if anyone comes in here, makes no contribution, and attacks people, I have the right as OP to ask @The Computer Audiophile to delete their posts.

[Speed Racer]

Sad.

 

"We don't like what you say therefore we aren't going to allow you to say it."

 

Snowflakes....

[feelingears]

18 hours ago, austinpop said:

I'll leave you with an intriguing thought. Do extreme optimizations on the PSU axis reduce the impact of clock optimizations? Roy's latest findings (over on head-fi) with the Zenith SE suggest this might be a distinct possibility. The Zenith SE does not have any heroic clock optimizations that we know of. What it does have are extreme PSU optimizations. The fact that Roy found it equalled or surpassed his reclocked server - at least in some areas - is highly intriguing. 

 

Thank you @austinpop! I would say this has been my experience, as I alluded to in my side comments about the Audio Alchemy DDP-1. I've found power cable and other power related "tweaks" to be essential to tuning my system, especially on the low end. Anyway, excited to see where we go from here. 

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, feelingears said:

Thank you @austinpop! I would say this has been my experience, as I alluded to in my side comments about the Audio Alchemy DDP-1. I've found power cable and other power related "tweaks" to be essential to tuning my system, especially on the low end. Anyway, excited to see where we go from here. 

 

 Like the both of you, I have found that a far better than average power supply greatly benefits a Xtal Oscillator.

 In fact, a much better than average PSU may also benefit HF detail with Digital Audio, as well as Digital Video (!!!), even when HD .mpeg4 is recorded uncompressed to USB memory using a STB.

( I use a dedicated +5V low noise PSU to power the USB memory stick instead of SMPS derived +5V from the STB.)

This possible improvement also applies to the .ts streams sometimes found on the Internet for SNL etc. with it's special guest musical artists.

 

Yes, I know, it isn't supposed to be possible.  

 

 P.S.

 Low frequency material like Drums can often have VERY sharp Rise and Fall times, so low end may often have more impact if these fast rise and fall times are preserved.

 In other words, the HF area !

 

Click on the image for a larger image.

[Siltech817]

2 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

"We don't like what you say therefore we aren't going to allow you to say it."

 

 

No not really, @Speedskater can certainly state that in another thread, particularly a thread he starts. But requirements such as proofs, specific methodologies, and measurements are unappreciated here and considered essentially off-topic according to the OP.

He was very clear and also polite, but still you tried to twist it, no good for anything.

 

2 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

Snowflakes....

 

This poorly veiled insult is a common theme from you, we've all seen it posted in a number of different threads. Either you are trying to entice flames and thread derailment, or are intending to be rude and condescending.

Please stop, it's not impressive.

[sandyk]

11 minutes ago, Siltech817 said:

This poorly veiled insult is a common theme from you, we've all seen it posted in a number of different threads

 

It's not even an original insult. He copied this from Ralf11 !

[Speed Racer]

Actually, I got if from Fox News.....

[charlesphoto]

8 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

It's not even an original insult. He copied this from Ralf11 !

 

No, he got it from the plague of trolls that’s descended over half of this country, all the way to the highest office. A rude insultin this time and age. 

 

Why can’t we just have our hobby with anecdotal impressions? What is Speedskater and his ilk trying to save us from anyway? It’s just stuff and money. I have no money, time or intention to delve into word clocks but enjoy reading about members experiences with them,  and so on. What  one shouldn’t do is go into every thread and crap on it just because one has an opposite agenda. Now that’s a stupid waste of time! 

[Johnseye]

2 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Actually, I got if from Fox News.....

 

2 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

No, he got it from the plague of trolls that’s descended over half of this country, all the way to the highest office. A rude insultin this time and age. 

 

Why can’t we just have our hobby with anecdotal impressions? What is Speedskater and his ilk trying to save us from anyway? It’s just stuff and money. I have no money, time or intention to delve into word clocks but enjoy reading about members experiences with them,  and so on. What  one shouldn’t do is go into every thread and crap on it just because one has an opposite agenda. Now that’s a stupid waste of time! 

 

Arrogance. Plain and simple minded. Time to move on. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

On 12/15/2017 at 7:38 PM, Speed Racer said:

Sad.

 

"We don't like what you say therefore we aren't going to allow you to say it."

 

Snowflakes....

Bye Speed Racer. You’ve proven you can’t tolerate others’ opinions and you don’t respect the rules of a site that allows people to engage in conversations without sophomoric bahavior. 

[seeteeyou]

On 12/15/2017 at 5:06 AM, Speed Racer said:

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/does-your-studio-need-digital-master-clock

http://pinknoisemag.com/pink-papers/pink-paper-002

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoKqnBJN8iQ

 

Mess with the best, die like the rest.

 

It's been one of the most enjoying threads for me here with so many of us who are happy to share their findings, and we also had our 10th anniversary of CA last month. Now I'm so glad that everything is taken care of and many thanks to Chris for keeping everything under control.

 

On 12/15/2017 at 3:21 AM, mozes said:

So basically this accessory helps to avoid the DC converters and provide clean power directly to the HDD via the 15 pin SATA power. I am just making sure that I understood your point

 

Bingo. 15-pin SATA power connectors have separate pins for 3.3V / 5V / 12V respectively.

 

Almost all 3.5" HDDs and 5.25" optical drives require both 5V and 12V to operate. It's gonna be "nasty" if we're just feeding 12V to the DC inputs of HDD docks and enclosures etc. because something (usually a single regulator) must convert 12V to 5V accordingly.

 

The difference between both voltages is 7V and most likely we just don't wanna waste our time with a significant drop like that.

 

Anyways, most of us should be content with 2.5" drives and that's why we could simply go for ADSAU31R instead

 

http://www.addonics.com/products/adsau31r.php

 

That even allows us to try different SATA cables while we could feed 5V to SOtM SATA Filter II directly, though we still need clean power for that small 4P power connector since the system clock count on that unless it's replaced by sCLK-EX.

 

We could also pay $2.5 to get that PCI bracket and then it could be mounted onto a PCI slot opening.

[lmitche]

3 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

Mess with the best, die like the rest.

 

It's been one of the most enjoying threads for me here with so many of us who are happy to share their findings, and we also had our 10th anniversary of CA last month. Now I'm so glad that everything is taken care of and many thanks to Chris for keeping everything under control.

 

 

Bingo. 15-pin SATA power connectors have separate pins for 3.3V / 5V / 12V respectively.

 

Almost all 3.5" HDDs and 5.25" optical drives require both 5V and 12V to operate. It's gonna be "nasty" if we're just feeding 12V to the DC inputs of HDD docks and enclosures etc. because something (usually a single regulator) must convert 12V to 5V accordingly.

 

The difference between both voltages is 7V and most likely we just don't wanna waste our time with a significant drop like that.

 

Anyways, most of us should be content with 2.5" drives and that's why we could simply go for ADSAU31R instead

 

http://www.addonics.com/products/adsau31r.php

 

That even allows us to try different SATA cables while we could feed 5V to SOtM SATA Filter II directly, though we still need clean power for that small 4P power connector since the system clock count on that unless it's replaced by sCLK-EX.

 

We could also pay $2.5 to get that PCI bracket and then it could be mounted onto a PCI slot opening.

Hi seeteeyou,

 

I'm powering a 3.5 inch hdd inside a Startech USB 3.1 gen 2 enclosure and my experience is different than you describe here.  The enclosure has a 12 volt input as you explain.  However the 5 volt power source for the drive appears to come from the USB vbus. Enhancing the quality of this vbus power actually enhances drive performance where I can measure variations from 165 to 212 mbs transfers rates. SQ improves as well.

[mozes]

4 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Bingo. 15-pin SATA power connectors have separate pins for 3.3V / 5V / 12V respectively.

 

Almost all 3.5" HDDs and 5.25" optical drives require both 5V and 12V to operate. It's gonna be "nasty" if we're just feeding 12V to the DC inputs of HDD docks and enclosures etc. because something (usually a single regulator) must convert 12V to 5V accordingly.

 

The difference between both voltages is 7V and most likely we just don't wanna waste our time with a significant drop like that.

 

Anyways, most of us should be content with 2.5" drives and that's why we could simply go for ADSAU31R instead

 

Great info thanks. I got the 15-Pin SATA adapter one and will try it sometime soon. I have a 2.5inch HDD so I only need the 5V. My goal is to find out when switching off the USB power on the tX-USBexp (which powers the HDD) if it makes a difference to SQ.

[tapatrick]

15 hours ago, Speedskater said:

OK so do some quick and dirty blind listening tests.

 

As Art Dudley of Stereophile Magazine wrote:

Audio enthusiasts are given to reporting any number of things.

 

In the past, the hobby was about real supportable improvements, not just wasting time and money.

If several different people, worthy of respect, who live in different parts of the world, have spent years and lots of their own hard earned money in pursuit of better audio quality and no doubt in the process develop the ability to notice significant improvements - IF they try some new, not done before combination of components/tweaks etc and report important and significant break throughs. THAT for me is valuable and much appreciated information... These things should be seen in context. Demanding and re-demanding the same pioneers also satisfy self imposed standards seems out of place especially here, if they have declined previously due to lack off interest/resources.

 

Just saw this has been taken care of later in thread..:)