A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[seeteeyou]

33 minutes ago, rettib2001 said:

To my ears the use of the extreme mode offers a sufficiently valuable improvement in sound quality to warrant exploring more creative cooling approaches...

 

There's a very special NUC model that could be pushed beyond its limit and consequently the latency should be reduced

 

https://valid.x86.fr/z8jyul

http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e74656c28522920436f726528544d292069372d383830394720435055204020332e313047487a

 

https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/989586350998544389

https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/990035768700698625

https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/996923260766965761

https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/1000617202637209600

https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/1000831983843467265

 

 

BTW, I suspect that liquid might be invented by the richest person on Earth but she's called Bulma rather than Bezos

 

 

[RickyV]

15 hours ago, tapatrick said:

I only stream from Tidal via Roon, no local music and without a doubt NUC server  plus NUC endpoint is superior to just NUC endpoint, as good as that is on its own. (See my post above). 

 

Hi tapatrick,

Sorry I am a Roon noob so how do you get tidal to the Roon server? 

At the moment I have tidal desktop on win server2016. Soon I will take the plunge into NUCvana and buy two nuc i7’s I guess at some point you just have to do it.

When you are a AudioLinux and a Roon noob it all can be a bit confusing.

 

Rick ?

[rettib2001]

18 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

 

There's a very special NUC model that could be pushed beyond its limit and consequently the latency should be reduced

 

https://valid.x86.fr/z8jyul

http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e74656c28522920436f726528544d292069372d383830394720435055204020332e313047487a

 

https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/989586350998544389

https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/990035768700698625

https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/996923260766965761

https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/1000617202637209600

https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/1000831983843467265

 

 

BTW, I suspect that liquid might be invented by the richest person on Earth but she's called Bulma rather than Bezos

 

 

Sweet jesus...

 

*other deities are available. 

[mourip]

22 minutes ago, RickyV said:

 

Hi tapatrick,

Sorry I am a Roon noob so how do you get tidal to the Roon server? 

At the moment I have tidal desktop on win server2016. Soon I will take the plunge into NUCvana and buy two nuc i7’s I guess at some point you just have to do it.

When you are a AudioLinux and a Roon noob it all can be a bit confusing.

 

Rick ?

 

If you have both Tidal and Roon then you can sign into Tidal within the Roon app. It is becomes integrated with Roon. You will then see the Tidal music inside the Roon interface. Very convenient.

[tapatrick]

56 minutes ago, RickyV said:

 

When you are a AudioLinux and a Roon noob it all can be a bit confusing.

  

Rick ?

Certainly is! ...last year I cut my teeth on dietpi tweaking. After a while the hair grows back... and here there is a lot more help

 

as @mourip has answered when you set up your roon core you are taken through several screens where you enter roon & tidal logins etc

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, rettib2001 said:

Given the highly subjective nature of our personal findings, this might not necessarily be of interest to many but the nuc7i7bnh (and I assume the more recent i7 nucs) handles upsampling to dsd512 well in terms of playback (smooth/uninterrupted) but the cpu temps are a little worrying when this is done under AL headless extreme. 

 

CPU temps, in this scenario, are hitting 90°.

 

Adding convolution into the mix obviously doesn't do them any favours either. 

 

CPU usage is around 120% when using these 'to the max' settings which suggests the system is being pushed a little beyond what it can comfortably handle, however as I said earlier playback is smooth and as blip/pop/click free as I've heard dsd512. 

 

To my ears the use of the extreme mode offers a sufficiently valuable improvement in sound quality to warrant exploring more creative cooling approaches...

 

 

 

That's interesting. I'm surprised this dual core model is working at dsd512 speeds. Are you thinking about a fanless case?

[rettib2001]

17 minutes ago, lmitche said:

That's interesting. I'm surprised this dual core model is working at dsd512 speeds. Are you thinking about a fanless case?

 

I was surprised too but it functions well until you look closely at temp/cpu load stats which seem to show that it's putting in a lot of effort. 

 

Yes, I'm toying with the idea of the getting the Akasa Plato x7 fanless case and using a higher quality thermal paste but it doesn't officially support the i7 variant of the nuc I have. 

 

Users have installed an i7 inside it and have been fine but don't know what sort of stress they've typically been putting their systems under. 

 

Al extreme is pretty agressive but just so good! 

 

To be fair as long as it stays within critical cpu temp territory the worst it 'should' do is reduce the life span of the device... If it lasts 2 years that's already an eternity in this hobby and no doubt yourself or another member of the forum will have unearthed something even better by then! 

[rettib2001]

I'm going to test whether running Roon server on the high powered nuc and playback on the endpoint reduces the strain on the server at all. 

[seeteeyou]

8 minutes ago, rettib2001 said:

Users have installed an i7 inside it and have been fine but don't know what sort of stress they've typically been putting their systems under.

 

FYI - someone tried Akasa for Skull Canyon and it's posted on Sep 12th last year

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/intelnuc/comments/6zq4yo/my_akasa_galactico_case_review_for_intel_skull/

 

It went up to "only" 82° after 1 hour of stress testing but that kicked the bucket according to his update posted on Oct 31st.

 

[seeteeyou]

On 10/1/2018 at 8:51 PM, seeteeyou said:

Or simply sell the Innuos before their Statement is available, then get double regulated 19V PSU from either Paul Hynes or Dr. Sean Jacobs to power NUC7CJYH afterwards.

 

Uh oh, someone finally did it (the first part) and let's see who's gonna be next.

 

So far there were quite a few forum posts on multiple sites where the NUC + ramroot AL combo was mentioned

 

@StereoMike

https://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?topic=170386.0

 

@Cooler

https://www.dastereo.ru/t/pravilnyj-pc-ili-nuc-brix-mac-mini-i-td/26959/22

 

@Confused

https://devialetchat.com/Thread-£200-streaming-option-beats-all-comers-upto-£5K

 

@MrUnderhill

https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?109737-AuioLinux-on-NUC

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/sotm-trifecta?reply=77737380889971442#77737380889971442

 

@mourip

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/two-endpoints-running-on-audiolinux-only-one-will-run-at-a-time/53912

 

@Johnseye

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://community.roonlabs.com/t/best-linux-distro-for-building-a-roon-endpoint/52203

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://community.roonlabs.com/t/best-linux-distro-for-building-a-roon-endpoint/52203%3Fpage%3D2

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://community.roonlabs.com/t/best-linux-distro-for-building-a-roon-endpoint/52203%3Fpage%3D3

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://community.roonlabs.com/t/best-linux-distro-for-building-a-roon-endpoint/52203%3Fpage%3D4

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://community.roonlabs.com/t/best-linux-distro-for-building-a-roon-endpoint/52203%3Fpage%3D5

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://community.roonlabs.com/t/best-linux-distro-for-building-a-roon-endpoint/52203%3Fpage%3D6

 

Ruggård

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nerds.dk/board/viewtopic.php%3Fmode%3Dreply%26p%3D146665

[Soma]

5 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Yes NUC7PJYH works with 16gb Ram. I have 8gb in each slot. 

@lmitche& @tapatrickthank you both.  Ordered 8gb*2 ballistix 

[rickca]

4 hours ago, rettib2001 said:

the cpu temps are a little worrying

If your CPU goes into thermal throttling you are getting unwanted voltage adjustments which are the enemy of sound quality.

[rickca]

10 hours ago, greenleo said:

For end point when using HQP, I will buy the headless (lxqt will be included) as an end point NAA in the audio PC.  The HQP in the control PC then runs in lxqt.

When you buy the headless/LXQt version for $49 can we run it on multiple computers with just a single license?  I've seen someone ask this before, but I don't recall seeing an answer from Piero.

[hifi25nl]

Yes, for personal use.

[Narcissus]

22 minutes ago, rickca said:

When you buy the headless/LXQt version for $49 can we run it on multiple computers with just a single license?  I've seen someone ask this before, but I don't recall seeing an answer from Piero.

I did ask this question to Piero, and the reply was "yes" but please only for you, not for your friends :)"

 

Which meant please don't share it with others, if you get the drift..

[rickca]

I can't stop thinking ... why didn't we hear about this great NUC/AL combination until recently?  It's unbelievably inexpensive and it's been available for quite some time.  Are we all too preoccupied with ever more expensive sophisticated components and elaborate explanations about their design?

[rickca]

16 minutes ago, hifi25nl said:

Yes, for personal use.

Thanks.  The cost is more than justified for the support you provide.  It's an incredible value.

[mozes]

48 minutes ago, rickca said:

I can't stop thinking ... why didn't we hear about this great NUC/AL combination until recently?  It's unbelievably inexpensive and it's been available for quite some time.  Are we all too preoccupied with ever more expensive sophisticated components and elaborate explanations about their design?

Excellent question. This is a great proof that expensive doesn't always mean better SQ 

[Dutch]

On 11/27/2018 at 10:46 PM, afrancois said:

My NUC was running fine with AL lxqt, until I decided to some BIOS optimizations.

Now the nuc7CJYH doesn't even output anything via HDMI.

Any idea's how to fix this? 

Quote

Sorry my NUC is a nuc7PJYH and not a nuc7CJYH

 

I have no HDMI output and the keyboard is not recognized.

BIOS recovery doesn't work.

0° formatted USB thumb drive with FAT32 (quick format unflagged) and put the latest BIOS file (JY0046.bio) on it

1° I've removed the yellow jumper on the motherboard

2° Powered up the NUC (even while holding down the button, I don't get any beeps.

3° usb with BIOS on it starts to flash breefly and keyboard gets power also briefly (all while screen remains blank)

4° after that power button remain blue and nothing happens

5° waiting for 10 minutes

6° NUC remains dead even after putting the jumper back

 

So all of you with a nuc7PJYH  or perhaps even the nuc7CJYH be carefull when changing BIOS settings. I turned my NUC into a brick by simply changing some BIOS settings.

 

The exact same thing just happened to me with the same NUC7PJYH. *cry*

 

I’m fairly sure it’s the graphics memory BIOS settings that caused this as I’ve come across posts on the Intel forum describing the same issue so I’d advise anyone not to touch those.

 

As afrancois experienced I to have been unable to revive the NUC and will RMA it asap. Strange thing is others on the Intel forum have been able to revive their machines using the BIOS restore feature but those were other NUC’s.

 

It’s unbelievable one can brick a machine in this way but since I’m second I thought it would be wise to sign up here and warn about this.

[davide256]

22 minutes ago, mozes said:

Excellent question. This is a great proof that expensive doesn't always mean better SQ 

 

What this proves outside the  world of pricing model decisions, in the realm of audio,  is that  the OS/player software inside the machines has a higher impact

on audio quality than previously recognized.

 

 Piero could have charged considerably more for AL and gotten buyers. But keeping cost lower gets you more market share, is a business model decision

determined by which market segments you think will grow the business best.

[seeteeyou]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

I can't stop thinking ... why didn't we hear about this great NUC/AL combination until recently?

 

Both Adrian (DreamOS that's based on AL) and Roy got the ball rolling first, then we've gotta thank this Chinese seller who sold Roy this NUC6CAYB for a VERY reasonable price

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=549337720006

 

It's already gone by now but that's like less than 50 bucks a piece right before that deal was over. Now they still have this Intel Compute Card (we'll still need a dock / carrier board) for $227 while it's gonna cost quite a bit more in US

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=565508540241

https://www.provantage.com/intel-blkcd1m3128mk~7ITSP1LA.htm

 

QS / ES version of Baby Canyon NUC (with i3-7100U) for $126.5 / $110

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=553287990559

https://ark.intel.com/products/95070/Intel-NUC-Board-NUC7i3BNB

 

Something similar to NUC from ECS for $35

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=549436615081

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

I can't stop thinking ... why didn't we hear about this great NUC/AL combination until recently?  It's unbelievably inexpensive and it's been available for quite some time.  Are we all too preoccupied with ever more expensive sophisticated components and elaborate explanations about their design?

Rick,

 

While I may have been the last kid to the party, I first heard about the headless ramboot version of AL from Piero in mid September. The full SQ impact of what we are now hearing wasn't available, at least to me, until then.

 

So I'd argue this is a recent solution.

 

Larry

[lmitche]

46 minutes ago, mozes said:

Excellent question. This is a great proof that expensive doesn't always mean better SQ 

Or that inexpensive means poor SQ.

[tapatrick]

1 hour ago, Dutch said:

 

I’m fairly sure it’s the graphics memory BIOS settings that caused this as I’ve come across posts on the Intel forum describing the same issue so I’d advise anyone not to touch those.

Ouch!  sorry to hear. What exactly did you change?

[Solid-State]

12 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

@austinpop So Rajiv, I'm mostly listening to complete silence, interspersed with occasional swearing! ?

 

More seriously the other thread is a great idea and many thanks to @rickcafor creating it. Likewise thanks to @tapatrick, @greenleo

and @LTG2010 for their help.

 

I'm still a bit confused by all the references to the 29 buck version when it's the €49 version I need so some clarification on what version(s) work best as endpoint vs what works best as server might benefit the crowd here. Might be my rookie mistake but there were two at 29 and I knew I didn't want Pi so I wrongly concluded it must be the BBB one.

 

Oh well, onwards and hopefully upwards today.

 

Cheers,

Alan

If you dont now what version you need,
IT's ALWAYS best to ask Piero first,