Building a DIY Music Server

[baconbrain]

54 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

It's also well timed with the February half off sale.  With a lot of people buying these cables now, we should get a lot more opinions and see if everyone's world views will change as a result ;)

 

Btw, I just heard that the half off sale will be extended until the end of March (not kidding), so with some luck, one can have their game changing new products just in time for April Fools Day! (sorry but I couldn’t resist) 😁

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

so how many of you have put orders with Ultimatum series Infinity line ? With 1/2 off, its really cheap. I am told that is where most of the magic is.

So “half-off” would make the yet-to-be-produced Ultimatum Infinity power cable $9,000 instead of $18,000, and the speaker cable $11,000 instead of $22,000?  Wow, what a bargain!  You know, normally I’d sell my house for $2mil., but for the next 30 days I’m offering it for half-off.  It’s based on a stock ranch-house build design, but over the decades I’ve done some special “treatments” that I can’t explain to you, but trust me you’ll love it.  And your Ultimatum cables will sound great in your new home.

 

[Edit: Oh wait, the QSA page says that only the Revelation line is being offered at 50% off. The Infinity line is being offered at the Revelation line price—for a limited time only.  So that’s $12K for the power cord and $15K for the speaker cables.  Better hurry before they are all gone! ]

[auricgoldfinger]

The way I see it, everyone here and at WBF who is predisposed against the QSA Lanedri cables due to price, voodoo technology, or similar offenses will simply claim any new positive user reviews are a result of mass psychosis or expectation bias or whatever.  So, everyone gets to feel good about themselves for being right no matter the actual outcome!

[Dev]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

So “half-off” would make the yet-to-be-produced Ultimatum Infinity power cable $9,000 instead of $18,000, and the speaker cable $11,000 instead of $22,000?  Wow, what a bargain!  You know, normally I’d sell my house for $2mil., but for the next 30 days I’m offering it for half-off.  It’s based on a stock ranch-house build design, but over the decades I’ve done some special “treatments” that I can’t explain to you, but trust me you’ll love it.  And your Ultimatum cables will sound great in your new home.

 

[Edit: Oh wait, the QSA page says that only the Revelation line is being offered at 50% off. The Infinity line is being offered at the Revelation line price—for a limited time only.  So that’s $12K for the power cord and $15K for the speaker cables.  Better hurry before they are all gone! ]

 

@Superdadthanks for pointing out my oversight. You know that you have always been brilliant for catching these types of things 🙏 but for a wealthy guy like me, its not really a big deal for the price I have to pay for all my cables at roughly $125k for my 2-channel listening pleasure.

 

On a side note, I just calculated in my head how many hungry children around the world can be feed with that kind of money and its just mind boggling.

[MarcelNL]

yeah I'm wary as well...

 

 

I looked up some stuff and found a reference to a computer repair company previously located in Brussles which relocated  2013 to the address they are using for the cables...a house 1out in the middle of nowhere in the Ardennes. Now I DO get cottage industry and all that but even the marketing lingo is lame at best IMO;

 

Metal Molecular Activation Technology (MAT)

Musical Metal molecule Alignment Technology (MMAT)

Skin Deep Compensation Technology (SDCT)

 

Ultimately all of that does not matter if it works and folks are willing to shell out the disgusting amounts of money they are asking, it's just that I won't be one of them. 

(I suspect it's a cable burn in treatment at best, something like putting 100KV through a cable)

 

and no this is not to make me feel better, I'm just sceptical of the claims that are being made by folks as they are a bit too haphazerd. 

[Johnseye]

With everyone (many from this forum) who's heard the results of this treatment, and you can call it whatever you want, there is something there.  30 day money back makes try before you buy an easy decision, unless they pull a PH Designs.  My only question which will not be answered soon, is will whatever this treatment is last or does it diminish?  Is it like car wax or is it a permanent change?

[Superdad]

46 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

(I suspect it's a cable burn in treatment at best, something like putting 100KV through a cable)

 

Why has nobody brought up the possibility (likelihood) that the QSA "process" is a cryogenic treatment?  
There are many variations of such and if done correctly it is highly audible and effective. Long ago I worked with a firm specializing in it. They offered their services and proprietary process (rate of cooling, final coldest temp., how long at that temp., then how long and rate of bringing back up to room temp.) to golf club manufacturers, cutting tool makers, drum kit cymbal and drum head/rim assemblies, and to audio manufacturers. It was great, but when done on cables (or capacitors) with Teflon insulation, it would double or triple the already exceedingly long time that Teflon takes to "burn-in."

[auricgoldfinger]

12 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Why has nobody brought up the possibility (likelihood) that the QSA "process" is a cryogenic treatment?  
There are many variations of such and if done correctly it is highly audible and effective. Long ago I worked with a firm specializing in it. They offered their services and proprietary process (rate of cooling, final coldest temp., how long at that temp., then how long and rate of bringing back up to room temp.) to golf club manufacturers, cutting tool makers, drum kit cymbal and drum head/rim assemblies, and to audio manufacturers. It was great, but when done on cables (or capacitors) with Teflon insulation, it would double or triple the already exceedingly long time that Teflon takes to "burn-in."

 

I have had vacuum tubes treated cryogenically and used cryogenically treated wire in DC cables.  There is no question the vacuum tubes benefited from it in a positive way.  The QSA treatments are giving results on an entirely different level.  While that may be a part of the process, I believe there is more to it.

 

In regard to questions about longevity, has anyone ever heard complaints of cables treated with high voltage (such as those made by Synergistic Research, among others) losing their performance?  I have not.  I raise the question because most people (including myself) are assuming that sort of treatment is part of the QSA process.

[MarcelNL]

16 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Why has nobody brought up the possibility (likelihood) that the QSA "process" is a cryogenic treatment?  
There are many variations of such and if done correctly it is highly audible and effective. Long ago I worked with a firm specializing in it. They offered their services and proprietary process (rate of cooling, final coldest temp., how long at that temp., then how long and rate of bringing back up to room temp.) to golf club manufacturers, cutting tool makers, drum kit cymbal and drum head/rim assemblies, and to audio manufacturers. It was great, but when done on cables (or capacitors) with Teflon insulation, it would double or triple the already exceedingly long time that Teflon takes to "burn-in."

probably because I was the only one offering a theoretical underlying 'treatment'?

Cryo is also possible yet I expect that other cable companies tried that, if the result would be earth shattering it would be around. I have some cryo treated stuff and there is a result but it's not something I'd describe the way this is being written about 

[seeteeyou]

4 hours ago, di-fi said:

First of all my reaction was to the @seeteeyoupost in this thread quoting this. It was almost off topic

 

Almost OT, huh?

 

Weren't you missing the whole point of my post, maybe issues with comprehension or something? Getting too emotional or what?

 

I quoted @romaz simply because of borrowing his own (among similar ones from the others as well) experiences as an example, nothing more than that.

 

The whole point was already mentioned in my post back then while @Nenon also talked about it

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/206/#comment-1233378  

On 2/28/2023 at 4:25 AM, Nenon said:

I am doing my own experiments with QSA as well, such as treated capacitors, chokes, and transformers, but those will take more time. 

 

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More importantly, WS C621E SAGE / Optane 900P / RAM / DC DC-ATX / Network Card / TACDA & TACDD DAC & Interface etc. could also be potential candidates

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-lanedri-series.36078/page-11#post-857677

Quote

It just means the Extreme needs to up its game and get QSA'd.

 

I still don't understand why some of us would get so worked up, duh.

 

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How about moving those genuinely OT posts to a separate thread? LOL

[di-fi]

1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

The way I see it, everyone here and at WBF who is predisposed against the QSA Lanedri cables due to price, voodoo technology, or similar offenses will simply claim any new positive user reviews are a result of mass psychosis or expectation bias or whatever.  So, everyone gets to feel good about themselves for being right no matter the actual outcome!

I think no one who is trying to be open minded should be predisposed due to price or « voodoo » technology (or maybe let’s call it a process we do not understand right away). This would not be happening the first time in (high end) audio. Maybe one can try to understand what is going on first before jumping to conclusions?
That’s usually what’s happening here at AS I thought ;-)

[di-fi]

20 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Weren't you missing the whole point of my post

Exactly, I only read you first paragraph and jumped to WBF. Sorry I read the rest of your post later and it was very much worth it (as usual).
No insult intended though. 

[auricgoldfinger]

21 minutes ago, di-fi said:

I think no one who is trying to be open minded should be predisposed due to price or « voodoo » technology (or maybe let’s call it a process we do not understand right away). This would not be happening the first time in (high end) audio. Maybe one can try to understand what is going on first before jumping to conclusions?
That’s usually what’s happening here at AS I thought ;-)

 

I guess my reading comprehension skills have deteriorated because I'm not seeing much open-mindedness in this discussion.

[Dev]

36 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

I guess my reading comprehension skills have deteriorated because I'm not seeing much open-mindedness in this discussion.

 

Sorry, maybe I am missing the point but what is there to discuss ? Manufacturer has closed lipped his technology, so not much can be discussed on the tech. Moreover, its a Belden/Blue Jean cables they are using underlying, so that's not much to discuss there either. The only thing one can do is to buy it and audition it in their system with 30 days trial, provided there isn't any hidden fees associated with it. What more can you ask ? I have recently bought some Japanese branded power cable and there wasn't any returns option but fortunately I liked the cable. Having said that, with any new products, especially when the prices are on the higher side and when known members are endorsing it heavily, it's going to churn some discussions. There is nothing new in it. It has happened in the past and will happen in the future. So folks who have vested interest will have to deal with it.

[di-fi]

57 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Sorry, maybe I am missing the point but what is there to discuss ? (...) There is nothing new in it. It has happened in the past and will happen in the future.

Since you asked the question, not sure you are interested, but for everyone else:

 

(...) I guess most are familiar with the fable of the Philosophers Stone…..essentially the tale of the ancient Alchemists’ search for a stone (ingredient) that would turn base metals into Gold. Well apparently QSA-Lanedri have found the audiophile equivalent, which I believe is worthy of some discussion. (...)

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-lanedri-and-the-audiophile-version-of-the-philosophers’-stone.36426/

[Dev]

13 minutes ago, di-fi said:

Since you asked the question, not sure you are interested, but for everyone else:

 

(...) I guess most are familiar with the fable of the Philosophers Stone…..essentially the tale of the ancient Alchemists’ search for a stone (ingredient) that would turn base metals into Gold. Well apparently QSA-Lanedri have found the audiophile equivalent, which I believe is worthy of some discussion. (...)

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-lanedri-and-the-audiophile-version-of-the-philosophers’-stone.36426/

 

I saw that thread earlier too and read with great interest. I believe there is nothing wrong in discussing it. However, its all speculation and will be for the foreseeable future unless manufacturer comes out openly (or is open-minded 😜 in discussing it's tech).  

[auricgoldfinger]

1 hour ago, di-fi said:

Since you asked the question, not sure you are interested, but for everyone else:

 

(...) I guess most are familiar with the fable of the Philosophers Stone…..essentially the tale of the ancient Alchemists’ search for a stone (ingredient) that would turn base metals into Gold. Well apparently QSA-Lanedri have found the audiophile equivalent, which I believe is worthy of some discussion. (...)

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-lanedri-and-the-audiophile-version-of-the-philosophers’-stone.36426/

 

This argument applies to every high end audio component out there.  Maybe you are not regularly exposed to them.  All of these companies routinely release the best ever, completely revolutionary product to replace their previously best-in-class offering which was the best ever, completely revolutionary product.  None of them are disclosing their IP beyond some meaningless marketing jargon.  The BOM for a typical $20K speaker cable is probably no more than $2-3K, and you are only given vague descriptions of wire, gauge, dielectric, etc.  I have been told on more than one occasion that even AWG is proprietary information.  QSA Lanedri has disclosed exactly what they are using for the Gamma series.  Not all of those cables are inexpensive.  Perhaps you should price the BJC XLRs, for example.  The Spectra series specs are protected by Sablon, but at least you know who is supplying the power cord.  In this sense, QSA Lanedri has actually disclosed more information than comparable manufacturers. 

 

As @Dev said, all the discussion about the QSA technology is baseless speculation, especially considering the most vocal critics appear to have no intention of trying a cable.  How can they accurately assess something of this nature without having any first-hand experience? 

[ray-dude]

Just now, Dev said:

 

I saw that thread earlier too and read with great interest. I believe there is nothing wrong in discussing it. However, its all speculation and will be for the foreseeable future unless manufacturer comes out openly (or is open-minded 😜 in discussing it's tech).  

 

I think this is key.  There won't be more information on underlying tech (QSA folks have made that clear), so unless someone can reverse engineer the process, there is nothing to discuss but impressions from those who have heard the products.

 

@di-firespectfully, the way to encourage an open sharing of experiences is not by passive aggressively impuning the motivations or loyalties or integrity those that share impressions.  If you honestly care, give them a listen and share your opinion, I would honestly love to hear it. If you have the means or interest or expertise to dig in and do something more robust (measurements, A/B test, whatever), that's awesome.  Share those findings as well, so we can all learn from your experience and expertise.

Before you wave your tar brush in my direction, here is my disclosure and my experience with these products.  

• I own 3 QSA Landeri power cables and a QSA fuse (that I paid for, same as everyone else)
• I've been aware of the effort since since well before it became a commercial effort, and can confirm that everything romaz has shared is true
• I've listened to several variants of QSA products and learned something each and every time, even if I'm still trying to get my head around what I'm hearing
• I love what I'm hearing in my system and can't imagine giving this up
• Based on what I've heard with the cables I own, I have ordered more (that I have paid for, same as everyone else)
• I can't wait to get them over the next couple weeks and listen to them
• I don't understand what can be causing what I'm hearing, and have no idea what the process is
• My training is in electrical engineering/semiconductor physics/quantum effect electronics so this is particularly frustrating for me (I don't even have speculation to offer or hypotheses to test at this point)
• I'm hyper keen to learn more so I can engineer ways to get more of what I'm hearing (at which point this definitely becomes on topic for a DIY thread...the fact that something like this is possible in audio is great fodder for the DIY community to dig into).
• No, I get no financial or quid pro quo benefit from saying or doing any of this (I pay for my products like everyone else), and have no direct or indirect financial interest in QSA Lanedri or any other audio firm I share opinions about
• When folks offer loaners for audition, I gratefully accept the loaners (with an open mind but no promises) for testing like everyone else, and share my honest opinions
• Nothing related to QSA Lanedri is different than what I've always done, and always intend to do, when experimenting with audio and sharing what I learn

(with apologies for the off topic detour here, but I do mean what I say that there is something here that is worth exploring and understanding from a DIY perspective.  There is something very new and compelling here, even if we do not yet have any idea what it is or how to engineer it into everything else we build and do)

[di-fi]

24 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

@di-firespectfully, the way to encourage an open sharing of experiences is not by passive aggressively impuning the motivations or loyalties or integrity those that share impressions.

My comments were to Romaz and where he comes from.  He judged them as fair and replied instantly (on WBF). It has been dealt with. I do not know you, it wasn’t addressed to you.

 

I visit audio forums because I simply cannot try all products myself, I helps me  advance in audio, I think most visitors do. So sharing your QSA experience is greatly appreciated.

I have nothing against expensive audio products, it’s just not in my range. I will be the first to try if there is an affordable DIY version and I am as interested as you in how this develops.

[di-fi]

1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

all the discussion about the QSA technology is baseless speculation,

If that’s your point of view then try not to read it ;-)

 

1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

especially considering the most vocal critics appear to have no intention of trying a cable.  How can they accurately assess something of this nature without having any first-hand experience? 

No one is criticizing the QSA cables as far as I know (“not believing” is different and I am not interested). First hand experiences are slowly coming in, it’s a new product after all. But it has a steep price so not accessible or desired by everyone. 

I see it similar to that I do not need to possess an Extreme to enjoy its evolution and what can be learned from that. But I can have an exchange with Emile without upsetting him.

[Rovo]

To me it seems the big question is if the "effort" (cost in time, equipment, energy bills, etc.) QSA Lanedri put into their cables has a reasonable relationship with the price of their products. At the moment people are willing to pay the relatively high prices because of the end result. And QSA Lanedri is the only one able to supply such an end result. But without knowing anything about their "process" the nagging question is if the price they ask is "realistic". I think this triggers the emotion button with a lot of people. 

[gererick]

1 hour ago, Rovo said:

To me it seems the big question is if the "effort" (cost in time, equipment, energy bills, etc.) QSA Lanedri put into their cables has a reasonable relationship with the price of their products. At the moment people are willing to pay the relatively high prices because of the end result. And QSA Lanedri is the only one able to supply such an end result. But without knowing anything about their "process" the nagging question is if the price they ask is "realistic". I think this triggers the emotion button with a lot of people. 

They’re willing to pay, in part because there is a 30 day trial period.  If buyer thinks it doesn’t perform equal to the cost, he or she can return it.

[seeteeyou]

1 hour ago, Rovo said:

And QSA Lanedri is the only one able to supply such an end result.

 

QSA (in Hong Kong that is) seemed to have their own HDMI / headphone cables

 

https://quantum-science-audio.com/qsa-4k%2F8k-hdmi-cable

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-my-take-on-their-expensive-products.33833/page-12#post-806029

 

And then the question is, what if we're sending them quite a few W. L. Gore Space / Aerospace cables for the same treatment process?

 

Could stuff like that be any better / worse than what we're able to accomplish with similar ones provided by Blue Jeans Cable?

 

If so, maybe we should start thinking about what kinda cables would work best for our Taiko Audio DC DC-ATX etc.

 

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1 hour ago, Rovo said:

But without knowing anything about their "process" the nagging question is if the price they ask is "realistic".

 

Yeah, I'm assuming that (supposedly) everything quoted below should be a true story

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-lanedri-series.36078/page-10#post-857365

Quote

An interesting story, one company who's cables we treated acknowledged the superior impact of QSA's treatment on their cables but ultimately refused to work with us because of the quandary that after treatment, their entry level $6k interconnects were now outperforming their statement $30k+ interconnects that they had spent years developing. If we can find interconnects that perform better than the Iconoclast interconnects we have selected for the Gamma line once they have received treatment, we are happy to move to that but so far, we have not heard better regardless of price.

 

Pretty darn hilarious if that were actually happening in reality, though reality could very well be subjective at times.

 

---

 

At the end of the day, we're just trying to find out where the "sweet spot" really is after figuring out how much would each combo actually cost:

1. "Stock" SGM Extreme with original PSU
2. "Stock" SGM Extreme with BPS
3. Internally QSA'd SGM Extreme with original PSU
4. Internally QSA'd SGM Extreme with BPS
5. Externally + Internally QSA'd SGM Extreme with original PSU
6. Externally + Internally QSA'd SGM Extreme with BPS

#1 should be around $30K and therefore #2 might be $60K or so then?

 

#3 and #4 are meant for sending the whole enchilada to QSA for their treatment process, total costs TBD.

 

#5 and #6 = adding whatever cables / accessories etc. to #3 and #4 so that once again, total costs TBD.

 

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1. "Stock" DIY Extreme
2. Internally QSA'd DIY Extreme
3. Externally + Internally QSA'd DIY Extreme

We won't get our hands on XDMS at all, though Roon might not sound THAT bad with #3

 

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/3063-pink-hq-minorityclean/?p=63413

Quote

Roons latest update/updates has really made a big step in SQ! Soft, dynamic and analouge!

 

We don't have their own customized version of Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC, though Windows 11 Preinstallation Environment @ 100MB or so wouldn't be too shabby.

 

Now the $64,000 question is, how much do we REALLY need to spend on the DIY version (namely DIY option #3) while managing to meet / beat Taiko's official flavor of that $60K option #2? (i.e. "Stock" SGM Extreme with BPS)

 

IMHO that's the whole point of starting a discussion right here on this forum thread.

[Rovo]

@seeteeyou

I am perhaps one of the few who wants to pay a realistic price for the things I buy. So if someone puts in a considerable amount of "effort", I am willing to pay for it. But if it is just a matter of a one off thing and people are willing to pay incredible prices for it, I will certainly not. This is not discussing the QSA Lanedri products, just who I am. In the Netherlands we have a saying "wat de gek er voor geeft" (what the idiot is willing to pay for it). And I think I just do not want to be an idiot. Even if it means I will not get that "fantastic" thing. 

 

And like I said, it is just who I am. 

[JackJohnson316]

10 hours ago, ray-dude said:

My training is in electrical engineering/semiconductor physics/quantum effect electronics so this is particularly frustrating for me (I don't even have speculation to offer or hypotheses to test at this point)

From a DIY perspective do you think cryogenic treatment while degaussing at the same time could lead to a similar improvement on copper conductors? It seems the US Navy has been degaussing their copper cables/conductors for years to improve efficiency by up to 90%. The attached article even gives a blueprint for building such a machine to perform this treatment on cables: 

 

I ask in hopes that someday the DIY community could improve our own cables and devices for the advancement of music enjoyment.