Building a DIY Music Server

[JackJohnson316]

The link in my previous post didn’t work. Try this link for an article on cryogenic treatment and degaussing copper cables by the US Navy: https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/1.2908558

[drjimwillie]

You have to love all of this excitement.  
We really are a bunch of kids and finding out that Santa Claus might really exist is exciting. 
 

finding out how this stuff works is one thing but, the other thing is finding out where you fit into it personally. 
 

I am in to DIY because I cannot afford these Uber expensive products but, overtime with a lot of sweat equity. Maybe I will get close. 
 

The comment that stuck out to me, the most was that by using the QSA LAN cable and the QSA LAN Jitter made the inexpensive product sound like the Uber expensive product. When I looked at the prices of the QSA products, I realized that they are out of my reach, except for some of the fuses and maybe the LAN cable??  But my gut feeling is that all of the other treated cables were already in the system before the LAN cable was added??  And the effect was cumulative. Thinking like a scientist, how is this even possible? I can understand power cables, and signal cables, all working toward the instantaneous supply of power to the speakers, but the LAN cable?? I do own a Sablon audio ethernet cable, so I can someone understand. 
But, what is this QSA LAN Jitter, I cannot find any information on it. 
 

Would I even know the difference if I heard it. Sometime, I don’t know if what I am hearing is confirmation bias, or if it is real. I trust all of you and I learn from your experiences and I try to replicate what you do. Sometimes I just trust.  
 

Now onto things that I can somewhat understand.  Last night I improved the grounding to my main panel, and I believe it improved the sound.

 

I have (2) 6AWG cables running 220V from a 60 amp breaker (6AWG ground in a separate conduit), to a 115 pound powersure 800 transformer which drops the 220 V down to 110V, the power from the transformer runs 5 feet to my custom plug mold with Hubble industrial outlets, which have (2) 10AWG hot and (2) 10 AWG Neutral, and a  10 AWG ground, to each duplex outlet. 
 

I have never liked the way my main electrical panel was grounded. It has a good size ground connected to the Watermain. It has a 8AWG wire, connecting to a ground rod, and then to the gas hook up.  It has always seemed undersized to me.
 

now, a slight glimpse into the psychosis of an audiophile. 
Background story: the other day my daughter dropped her earbud down the drain of the sink in the only bathroom that I have not remodeled. When I took the trap off it disintegrated. I have now been back to the plumbing store three times as each piece of plumbing I have touched has disintegrated. With a bathroom, full of tools and supplies, my wife said to me, why don’t you call a plumber, you hate plumbing. All of us DIY people know the Folly and pain of such a comment Ha ha. The bright side is that during one of my trips past the electrical supply house I bought a 10 foot copper ground rod, and some 6AWG wire. Once again, not able to continue my plumbing project because the tool I purchased to remove the drain did not fit into it, I was at a standstill. When my wife suddenly left the house to go to a dentist appointment, I grabbed my large right angle drill and drilled a hole through the foundation. I did not want to deal with the questions that would have been asked from all of that noise I was making. 
 

I hooked up the ground and went to listen to some music.

 

It sounded more immediate. The dynamics sounded better. The base sounded more dimensional. Was I imagining it? Was it confirmation bias? I don’t know. I was excited and I liked it. 
This brings me back to the point I made earlier, where I’ll trust all of you. Because I am not sure if I can trust my own ears.

 

I could go back to the panel and disconnect the ground, but it was a bit difficult to install, and I am not sure if what ever nasty’s were dissipated would immediately accumulate again?

 

I will run another ground cable out to the existing ground rod. I am not sure if I should hook the two ground rods together? Or if I should daisychain another ground rod to the new one I put in?

 

I have to trust my own ears, because I do not have any friends to give a rats ass about my stereo system.  It is a bit of a quandary.
 

this brings me back to the QSA, I bought one of their fuses and I liked it over my stock fuse. I trust what the others here are hearing in their systems. 
 

I don’t want to be product bashing with this next question, but where I start to lose some of my confidence in QSA is when they put jewels on the outside of their receptacles. 
Does anyone have any idea how these jewels could be contributing to the product?

 

[auricgoldfinger]

1 hour ago, drjimwillie said:

You have to love all of this excitement.  
We really are a bunch of kids and finding out that Santa Claus might really exist is exciting. 
 

finding out how this stuff works is one thing but, the other thing is finding out where you fit into it personally. 
 

I am in to DIY because I cannot afford these Uber expensive products but, overtime with a lot of sweat equity. Maybe I will get close. 
 

The comment that stuck out to me, the most was that by using the QSA LAN cable and the QSA LAN Jitter made the inexpensive product sound like the Uber expensive product. When I looked at the prices of the QSA products, I realized that they are out of my reach, except for some of the fuses and maybe the LAN cable??  But my gut feeling is that all of the other treated cables were already in the system before the LAN cable was added??  And the effect was cumulative. Thinking like a scientist, how is this even possible? I can understand power cables, and signal cables, all working toward the instantaneous supply of power to the speakers, but the LAN cable?? I do own a Sablon audio ethernet cable, so I can someone understand. 
But, what is this QSA LAN Jitter, I cannot find any information on it. 
 

Would I even know the difference if I heard it. Sometime, I don’t know if what I am hearing is confirmation bias, or if it is real. I trust all of you and I learn from your experiences and I try to replicate what you do. Sometimes I just trust.  
 

Now onto things that I can somewhat understand.  Last night I improved the grounding to my main panel, and I believe it improved the sound.

 

I have (2) 6AWG cables running 220V from a 60 amp breaker (6AWG ground in a separate conduit), to a 115 pound powersure 800 transformer which drops the 220 V down to 110V, the power from the transformer runs 5 feet to my custom plug mold with Hubble industrial outlets, which have (2) 10AWG hot and (2) 10 AWG Neutral, and a  10 AWG ground, to each duplex outlet. 
 

I have never liked the way my main electrical panel was grounded. It has a good size ground connected to the Watermain. It has a 8AWG wire, connecting to a ground rod, and then to the gas hook up.  It has always seemed undersized to me.
 

now, a slight glimpse into the psychosis of an audiophile. 
Background story: the other day my daughter dropped her earbud down the drain of the sink in the only bathroom that I have not remodeled. When I took the trap off it disintegrated. I have now been back to the plumbing store three times as each piece of plumbing I have touched has disintegrated. With a bathroom, full of tools and supplies, my wife said to me, why don’t you call a plumber, you hate plumbing. All of us DIY people know the Folly and pain of such a comment Ha ha. The bright side is that during one of my trips past the electrical supply house I bought a 10 foot copper ground rod, and some 6AWG wire. Once again, not able to continue my plumbing project because the tool I purchased to remove the drain did not fit into it, I was at a standstill. When my wife suddenly left the house to go to a dentist appointment, I grabbed my large right angle drill and drilled a hole through the foundation. I did not want to deal with the questions that would have been asked from all of that noise I was making. 
 

I hooked up the ground and went to listen to some music.

 

It sounded more immediate. The dynamics sounded better. The base sounded more dimensional. Was I imagining it? Was it confirmation bias? I don’t know. I was excited and I liked it. 
This brings me back to the point I made earlier, where I’ll trust all of you. Because I am not sure if I can trust my own ears.

 

I could go back to the panel and disconnect the ground, but it was a bit difficult to install, and I am not sure if what ever nasty’s were dissipated would immediately accumulate again?

 

I will run another ground cable out to the existing ground rod. I am not sure if I should hook the two ground rods together? Or if I should daisychain another ground rod to the new one I put in?

 

I have to trust my own ears, because I do not have any friends to give a rats ass about my stereo system.  It is a bit of a quandary.
 

this brings me back to the QSA, I bought one of their fuses and I liked it over my stock fuse. I trust what the others here are hearing in their systems. 
 

I don’t want to be product bashing with this next question, but where I start to lose some of my confidence in QSA is when they put jewels on the outside of their receptacles. 
Does anyone have any idea how these jewels could be contributing to the product?

 

 

If possible, use 0 AWG wire to your main ground rod.  Also, the thicker the ground rod, the better (at least 3/4").  You might want to consult an electrician before connecting your existing ground rods to be sure you are code compliant and are not creating an electrical hazard.  That said, you can improve grounding performance by connecting multiple ground rods.  They have to be something like 5' or 6' apart from each other (at a minimum).  I'm sure you can find some good resources online.  I don't have any handy.

 

The QSA jewels tune the sound.  Synergistic Research has a similar product (https://www.synergisticresearch.com/isolation/accessories/carbon-tuning-disks/)  It sounds hokey, but people can hear a difference when used in the right places (which varies by system and component).  I have no idea how or why they work.

 

[di-fi]

2 hours ago, drjimwillie said:

But, what is this QSA LAN Jitter, I cannot find any information on it.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-lanedri-series.36078/

(scroll down halfway).

 

Good luck with the renovations! You will not regret your improved ground. Give it some time (follow the code / safety standards though)

[di-fi]

6 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

1. "Stock" SGM Extreme with original PSU
2. "Stock" SGM Extreme with BPS
3. Internally QSA'd SGM Extreme with original PSU
4. Internally QSA'd SGM Extreme with BPS
5. Externally + Internally QSA'd SGM Extreme with original PSU
6. Externally + Internally QSA'd SGM Extreme with BPS

 

(...) how much do we REALLY need to spend (...)

 

 

 

Better prepare to adjust this in a couple months already because then it could possibly be :

7. ''SGM Extreme connected with DAC cable to new Switch (Extreme processor offload) and new Router'' all QSA'd''.

8. (7) with the new proprietary USB replacement (new standard).

 

Ooops, forgot Emile seems to have worked out a new way of connecting between Router and SGM to be introduced soon (but I doubt this can be QSA'd).

Good times ahead.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, drjimwillie said:

With a bathroom, full of tools and supplies, my wife said to me, why don’t you call a plumber, you hate plumbing.

This really made me laugh!  And I too absolutely HATE plumbing in our old house--though I do it anyway, with much complaining. 

They don't call it "home-moanership" for nothing...

[seeteeyou]

On 2/28/2023 at 3:47 AM, Exocer said:

But the costs of replicating what Romaz has done, is still a lot of $$ if you think about it. All else equal, I think the SGM Extreme would win in the end.

 

 

At least some of us wouldn't be interested being equal anymore, since we aren't exactly tied to any specific hardware to begin with.

 

No need to replicate what he's done, too. Their customers might be kinda "stuck" with their 2nd Gen Xeon Scalable at least until they're done with existing projects. Meanwhile Intel already launched their Sapphire Rapids (i.e. 4th Gen) on January 10th

 

https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/intel/intel-launches-sapphire-rapids-after-4-delays-it-worth-it

https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/01/10/the-rest-of-the-world-can-finally-get-sapphire-rapids-xeon-sps/

 

TDP would be a bit too high since it's starting @ 125W for single-socket / 150W for dual-socket respectively, not sure if QSA'd copper heatsinks were any good in terms of heat dissipation?

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-lanedri-series.36078/#post-845557

Quote

I used the description superconductor out of lack of other words. With QSA, a metal becomes a super-metal where all its are characteristics are pushed to limitless levels.

I know that generic responses with adjectives won't satisfy the curiosity if not the opposite of increasing them.

 

So far Asus only announced a couple of (single-socket) W790 motherboards while (dual-socket) C741 ones would only come with complete server systems

 

https://www.asus.com/event/intel-4th-gen-xeon-servers/

 

And then this one seemed to be promising until I saw those cooling fans

 

https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/w790-motherboard-discussion-thread.39131/

https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/W790 WS/index.asp

Quote

14 Layer Server-Grade Ultra Low-Loss PCB

 

---

 

BTW, I just found it amusing to spend so much time on the development of XDMS while one of their customers found a relatively simple & cost-effective way to elevate the SQ of Roon without having to write a single line of code

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-lanedri-series.36078/page-6#post-850801

Quote

(although they can be purchased much less expensively if you purchase them directly from QSA in Hong Kong)

 

How much time should we spend on improving the SQ of software then? Maybe work on the features instead?

[baconbrain]

2 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

How much time should we spend on improving the SQ of software then? Maybe work on the features instead?

 

I still believe that at least 60% of SQ improvements are software related.

[Gavin1977]

SOTM SCLK-ex…

 

It’s supplied with a SATA adapter to power the board, but it seems to me that this is just for convenient connection, and besides Taiko ATX doesn’t come with a Sata power cable, just a 4 pin (2 x 2) SATA collector.

 

Anyone else fashioned a cable to power SCLK  direct from Taiko ATX SATA output?

 

What connector, crimps and crimp tool do I need?

[Johnseye]

41 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

SOTM SCLK-ex…

 

It’s supplied with a SATA adapter to power the board, but it seems to me that this is just for convenient connection, and besides Taiko ATX doesn’t come with a Sata power cable, just a 4 pin (2 x 2) SATA collector.

 

Anyone else fashioned a cable to power SCLK  direct from Taiko ATX SATA output?

 

What connector, crimps and crimp tool do I need?

 

What are you clocking with the sCLK?

 

[Gavin1977]

1 minute ago, Johnseye said:

 

What are you clocking with the sCLK?

 

SoTM q370… going to look at external clocks in due course.

 

I might have found it, if Taiko ATX is the same as HDPlex then it uses Molex Mini-Fit Jr, 4.2 pitch.  I don’t know the smaller connector type on the SCLK-ex though?

[Johnseye]

7 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

SoTM q370… going to look at external clocks in due course.

 

I might have found it, if Taiko ATX is the same as HDPlex then it uses Molex Mini-Fit Jr, 4.2 pitch.  I don’t know the smaller connector type on the SCLK-ex though?

 

Oh you have the Q370. Nice, please let me know how you like it.  SOtM will sell you an adapter to power the sCLK externally if you want.  From the Taiko ATX, I'm not sure, never tried that.

[Gavin1977]

The SotM SCLK-ex arrived configured for 9v in.  Yet the SATA power adaptor takes 12v in, and only a cap, no resistor to drop output…

 

So to directly wire from Taiko ATX as 12v I’d need to remove an internal jumper for 12v operation.  But then I’d be nervous about excluding the cap that the SATA power adapter includes.

 

 

@MayfromSOtM can you advise?

[AngeloVRA]

1 hour ago, Gavin1977 said:

SoTM q370… going to look at external clocks in due course.

 

I might have found it, if Taiko ATX is the same as HDPlex then it uses Molex Mini-Fit Jr, 4.2 pitch.  I don’t know the smaller connector type on the SCLK-ex though?

Hi @Gavin1977

 

The DC power IN cable connector for the SCLK EX is a Molex  0050375023 with crimp terminals 0008701039

You can use the PCIE output on the Taiko ATX. That is 8 pins, 4 pairs of 12v and Ground. 
 

I power my SCLK-EX with an external 12V PH DR7T. I use the PCIE output of Taiko ATX for the internal SATA power cable for the SNI-1G which is required even when externally powering it. 

 

 

Hope that helps

Angelo

[lwr]

4 hours ago, AngeloVRA said:

Hi @Gavin1977

 

The DC power IN cable connector for the SCLK EX is a Molex  0050375023 with crimp terminals 0008701039

You can use the PCIE output on the Taiko ATX. That is 8 pins, 4 pairs of 12v and Ground. 
 

I power my SCLK-EX with an external 12V PH DR7T. I use the PCIE output of Taiko ATX for the internal SATA power cable for the SNI-1G which is required even when externally powering it. 

 

 

Hope that helps

Angelo

Beautiful build!

[Gavin1977]

6 hours ago, AngeloVRA said:

Hi @Gavin1977

 

The DC power IN cable connector for the SCLK EX is a Molex  0050375023 with crimp terminals 0008701039

You can use the PCIE output on the Taiko ATX. That is 8 pins, 4 pairs of 12v and Ground. 
 

I power my SCLK-EX with an external 12V PH DR7T. I use the PCIE output of Taiko ATX for the internal SATA power cable for the SNI-1G which is required even when externally powering it. 

 

 

Hope that helps

Angelo

Nice work Angelo!

[Exocer]

15 hours ago, AngeloVRA said:

Hi @Gavin1977

 

The DC power IN cable connector for the SCLK EX is a Molex  0050375023 with crimp terminals 0008701039

You can use the PCIE output on the Taiko ATX. That is 8 pins, 4 pairs of 12v and Ground. 
 

I power my SCLK-EX with an external 12V PH DR7T. I use the PCIE output of Taiko ATX for the internal SATA power cable for the SNI-1G which is required even when externally powering it. 

 

 

Hope that helps

Angelo

Nicely done! It is evident that you strive for perfection, and achieve it!

 

Not to put you on the spot @AngeloVRA, but we have spoken privately in great depth about your experience with the SOTM SMB Q370 and SCLK-EX, and many other tweakable aspects of implementation. As a result, my backlog of tweaks to try is unsustainable 😅 but, adventurous in a good way. I am posting this to encourage you to share some more thoughts and experiences with this project.

 

1. What setup you had before.

2. How the SOTM board compares.

 

For a number of reasons, i've tried not to present too much excitement over the SMB Q370 because I know for many of us it is difficult to comprehend/execute the purchased of a used CPU to run it. But for those of you with an inclination to try this board I do NOT think you'll regret it. 

 

Some useful points i've learned along the way:

 

1. It is impossible to try the board with and without the SCLK-EX unless you have two boards/cpus side by side. The SCLK-EX install requires some modifications to the board itself if you purchased the board without the SCLK-EX.

 

2. The BIOS on the SMB Q370 is a bit bland compared to what you get with gaming board.

 

3. The SCLK-EX is quite adjustable in and of itself. With firmware you can:

a. Enable outputs

b. Set output frequencies

c. Enable reference clock inputs

d. Enable external power functionality

 

Cheers,

-Rob

[Nsxturbo]

I wanted to post some updated photos of my now 3yrs running Sage WS621E build. The project has been on the back burner since I’ve been pretty enamored with my Taiko Extreme and Lampizator Horizon! (I threw in a photo of them for fun) Anyway, I updated my Nenon V3 power supply with the 220,000mf Taiko Mundorf cap and the high current Saligny mosfet rectifier and put it with the Taiko DC/ATX power supply in a separate chassis, then fed the wiring to the motherboard through the bottom of my HDPlex case.(I missed the quick sell out of the Taiko DIY chassis and honestly couldn’t really justify the expense having purchased the Extreme.) I also added the Zzyzx M2 drive which I preferred the sound of over the Intel 900P PCIe card for the OS.

[SK8]

6 hours ago, Nsxturbo said:

I wanted to post some updated photos of my now 3yrs running Sage WS621E build. The project has been on the back burner since I’ve been pretty enamored with my Taiko Extreme and Lampizator Horizon! (I threw in a photo of them for fun) Anyway, I updated my Nenon V3 power supply with the 220,000mf Taiko Mundorf cap and the high current Saligny mosfet rectifier and put it with the Taiko DC/ATX power supply in a separate chassis, then fed the wiring to the motherboard through the bottom of my HDPlex case.(I missed the quick sell out of the Taiko DIY chassis and honestly couldn’t really justify the expense having purchased the Extreme.) I also added the Zzyzx M2 drive which I preferred the sound of over the Intel 900P PCIe card for the OS.

Interesting....

How would you describe the differences in sonic performance between the Extreme and the DIY WS621E? What OS and software are you running on the DIY WS621E?

[Exocer]

12 hours ago, SK8 said:

Interesting....

How would you describe the differences in sonic performance between the Extreme and the DIY WS621E? What OS and software are you running on the DIY WS621E?

In additional to this - can you share some details about the slabs of wood you’re using for vibration control? 😎

[di-fi]

3 hours ago, Exocer said:

share some details about the slabs of wood

I think I recognised two IKEA cutting boards. Recently I cut open an IKEA APTITLIG bamboo board after I put each speaker stand on a board and something seemed to sound off. The hollow boards are filled with little planks, spaced and glued in an alternating pattern creating voids in two directions. I changed for much heavier Panzerwood with very obvious improvement. Hope this is helpful.

 

• Density bamboo plywood : 650-850 kg / m3
• IKEA APTITLIG bamboo plywood: 400 kg / m3 (my guess)
• Panzerholz : 1350 - 1400 kg / m3

https://antipodes.support/t/isolation-of-network-equipment/1325/9?u=paulw

[MarcelNL]

I plan on using Celeron, sp d; 1400

[Exocer]

3 hours ago, Exocer said:

In additional to this - can you share some details about the slabs of wood you’re using for vibration control? 😎

 

3 minutes ago, di-fi said:

I think I recognised two IKEA cutting boards. I cut open an IKEA APTITLIG bamboo plywood after I put each speaker stand on a board and something seemed to sound off. I changed for much heavier Panzerwood with very obvious diffrences. Hope this is helpful.

 

• Density bamboo plywood : 650-850 kg / m3
• IKEA APTITLIG bamboo plywood: 400 kg / m3 (my guess)
• Panzerholz : 1350 - 1400 kg / m3

https://antipodes.support/t/isolation-of-network-equipment/1325/9?u=paulw

I meant in addition*
 

Thanks @di-fi. I am trying to convince @BCRichto order a sheet of Panzerholz with me since we’re both in the tri-state area.

 

Would you say the ikea board is worth skipping in favor of the Panzerholz?

 

I have been eyeing these too:

US $60.45  7％ Off | Rosewood  Solid Wood Amplifier CD Player Tube Preamp DAC Shock Absorber Speaker Isolator Pads Stand Base Bracket Support Rack
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPqTPF0

[di-fi]

29 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Would you say the ikea board is worth skipping in favor of the Panzerholz?

110%! I put Panzerwood boards under; server, endpoint, dac and amp. Everyting became more quiet and precise. The next step is to make and install 3 feet à la Taiko Daiza for each board.  I am aware it will not become a Taiko Daiza but they will be better than without the feet. No regrets. 

 

When choosing the type of board or feet do some research what kind of vibration control you try to achieve. Emile explains on WBF how the Daiza work. Panzerholz boards absorb vibration, the feet have a minimal contact surface and are made of a copper disc and a tiny Panzerholz hollow foot with each a foam insert. They are as important as the board itself (and then there is an awesome CNC spiral cut I have to skip) . 

 https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/product/daiza-isolation-platform/

 

[Nsxturbo]

15 hours ago, SK8 said:

Interesting....

How would you describe the differences in sonic performance between the Extreme and the DIY WS621E? What OS and software are you running on the DIY WS621E?

I am using Windows LTSC with Audiophile Optimizer. For playback software(no frills our streaming, just local files)I use Bughead Emperor. I also use Jplay for both Qobuz & local files, but honestly in my system Bughead gets the nod, but is is very utilitarian😆Also files copied to the Zzyx drive sound better than those played from the Intel 660’s via VROC.

The Extreme, even without XDMS is more resolving and lower noise floor, and I would describe it as calmer but with greater dynamics than our facsimiles. With XDMS, it is a whole different level of refinement with an even lower noise floor and then add to that more detail, soundscape depth and width and overall I would call it a beautiful but with lightning quickness and explosive dynamics sound. It truly is State of the Art Digital. Paired with the Horizon, It is no doubt digital endgame playback.(At this moment in time.) Emile and his team at Taiko, I believe will leave no stone unturned in both software and hardware development. I am awaiting my Taiko switch and network card, then down there is a lot more exciting developments.  “I might have to kill another hobbie and get a side hustle just to keep up😂

BTW, our Extreme copies are in no way chopped liver and would best 95% or more commercial offerings!