How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

11 minutes ago, GUTB said:

I auditioned an Emotiva A-300 a few years back I think...snip....

 

One thing is for sure: if I can’t tell the difference between that and a Mark Levinson, Pass, Esoteric, etc, I would seriously consider just abandoning audiophilia altogether because it’s obviously not for me.

 

If you can't hear a difference then their is a vested interest (bias) in believing there is no difference.

[semente]

9 hours ago, GUTB said:

Well, I have a duty to my fans...

 

Can you name your fan? ?

 

(I'm sure your mum won't object to that)

[beancounter]

14 hours ago, esldude said:

Should we try for a middle ground and compare Emotiva to JVC of the 80's/90's?

 

Actually I'm not sure Emotiva is quite equal to Adcom gear from those days, but some of it is.  By equal I mean in its relative place in the spectrum of quality and performance for the time. Some of the Adcom gear was surprisingly good, and some was just okay.  Build was good for price I would say.  That is somewhat how I look at Emotiva.  A couple things I think are over-achievers and others okay for the price.  

 

I was initially quite enthusiastic about Emotiva, hoping that I could perhaps extricate myself from my vintage/DIY dumpster.  I auditioned a couple of pieces, and while they were okay and a very good value for the price, they just didn't fit what I was looking for.  

 

I will also agree with the earlier sentiment that the gap is closing between mid-fi and high-end. 

 

[Jud]

16 hours ago, mansr said:

That's an elk.

 

Yes, but I don't really caribou-t such details.

 

 

[GUTB]

1 hour ago, beancounter said:

 

I was initially quite enthusiastic about Emotiva, hoping that I could perhaps extricate myself from my vintage/DIY dumpster.  I auditioned a couple of pieces, and while they were okay and a very good value for the price, they just didn't fit what I was looking for.  

 

I will also agree with the earlier sentiment that the gap is closing between mid-fi and high-end. 

 

 

I appreciate the genteel version of it sucks...

[davide256]

On 5/30/2018 at 11:06 AM, AudioDoctor said:

 

 

"An audiophile is a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction."

 

 

Is that big enough?

 

 

Enthusiasm with no effort invested to study/learn does not qualify as hobbyist for any hobby. Boring/cringe-worthy systems abound among dilettantes. I aspired to become an audiophile in my 20's... becoming an audiophile took education. There was nothing "audiophile" about my first or even my second system... it took time, $$, and lots of auditioning to learn the hobby.

[esldude]

39 minutes ago, GUTB said:

 

I appreciate the genteel version of it sucks...

I see you are digital all the way.  Something either sucks or it doesn't.  Very binary. 

 

Surely you are capable of more nuanced ideas.

 

With your attitude there is one speaker in the world that is the very best and all others suck.  Even those 98% as good.  If that speaker costs $10 million then everyone with less money should just do without because nobody wants a sucky speaker.  Ditto for amps, for preamps, for sources.  

 

Looking at the other end at musicians I think of poor backwoods people that still like music.  They'll take a string, a 2x4 and washtub to make a stringed instrument.  Some can make pretty good music that way.  Does it suck compared to fine guitar?  Maybe, but they'd be poorer still without it. 

 

So sucky stuff in my opinion costs way more than better performing gear.  Or it breaks too often and fails to perform the intended function.  One can get much too snobby with your approach which is why many of us poke fun at you.  The world isn't high end audio Highlander where there can be only one!

 

 

[gmgraves]

17 hours ago, Nordkapp said:

At least the Marantz stuff is built better. For the budding audio enthusiast on an incredibly short budget, then fine-go buy all the Emotiva you want. 

My only point. It will get a budding audiophile's toes wet and as he/she can afford it, they will upgrade. The yellow brick road has to start somewhere!

[gmgraves]

17 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 Amusing, but has anyone here actually heard GUTB's system, or verified that he has no better audio discerning properties than the majority of those, usually from the hard line Objective side,  who love to take the piss out of him ?

 Perhaps he hasn't , but he does at least go to Audio Shows, and gets to hear a greater variety of equipment than somebody who rarely gets to hear recent Audio products.

 Yes, I do agree that he leaves himself wide open to attacks from the "Rat Pack"

We're really just funning him (or at least I am). Anyone who makes the kind of outrageous statements that GUTB does is going to be kidded. That's really all there is to it. When I make outrageous statements, I expect to be kidded too, don't you? 

[gmgraves]

16 hours ago, GUTB said:

Well, I have a duty to my fans...

Indeed you do!

[mansr]

I don't understand the constant talk about upgrade paths and what to get next. Is it not permitted to simply buy a competent system one can afford and be happy with it (for the time being)?

[Summit]

I would say that it cost nothing to be an audiophile, but it can cost a lot to get a system that satisfy many audiophile’s wet dream.

[pkane2001]

24 minutes ago, mansr said:

Is it not permitted to simply buy a competent system one can afford and be happy with it (for the time being)?

 

You'll get kicked out of the audiophile union! You must constantly think about what to upgrade next in your system. And each upgrade must cost more than the previous. And you must believe that every piece of wire, each component, feet, casing and even paint color has an effect on sound quality, and therefore is subject to all the above upgrade rules.

 

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

 

 

Enthusiasm with no effort invested to study/learn does not qualify as hobbyist for any hobby. Boring/cringe-worthy systems abound among dilettantes. I aspired to become an audiophile in my 20's... becoming an audiophile took education. There was nothing "audiophile" about my first or even my second system... it took time, $$, and lots of auditioning to learn the hobby.

 

LOL, now that's an elitist and ridiculous view if I have ever heard of one. Are you and GUTB in a competition?

[beancounter]

1 hour ago, GUTB said:

 

I appreciate the genteel version of it sucks...

 

Really, that's not what I said; I said it's okay and a good value for the $, but wasn't what I was looking for.  To add a bit, I will say that it didn't live up to the hype for me - but it might suit someone else quite well.  Different strokes and all that.  And honestly, a lot of high-end stuff isn't any better.  Trust your ears.

[Jud]

8 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

You'll get kicked out of the audiophile union! You must constantly think about what to upgrade next in your system. And each upgrade must cost more than the previous. And you must believe that every piece of wire, each component, feet, casing and even paint color has an effect on sound quality, and therefore is subject to all the above upgrade rules.

 

 

What I particularly enjoy doing is learning more in order to get better sound without having to spend much, or anything at all.  Learning about room placement or digital filters “don’t cost nothin’,” as a friend of mine used to say.  Any  associated measurement equipment needed can be quite inexpensive as well.

[esldude]

55 minutes ago, mansr said:

I don't understand the constant talk about upgrade paths and what to get next. Is it not permitted to simply buy a competent system one can afford and be happy with it (for the time being)?

It is a good idea.

 

I think everyone starts not fully knowing what they wish to invest in time or effort, and not having experience to be a good judge of a system's capabilities.  Just additional experience and exposure usually will lead you to making better choices.  If you go thru this cycle a few times it becomes a habit of sorts. 

 

Now could a dealer or other person put together a competent system you would be happy with for quite some time?  Sure in theory.  However, if I had been advised to get my current gear initially I would have been appalled and bewildered.  I likely wouldn't have had the good sense to take the advice given.  

 

 

[kumakuma]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

I don't understand the constant talk about upgrade paths and what to get next. Is it not permitted to simply buy a competent system one can afford and be happy with it (for the time being)?

 

Only if "the hobby" is defined as enjoying good music on good equipment.

 

Unfortunately,  some here are focused much more on the equipment than the music with the result being a never-ending quest to upgrade.

[mansr]

11 minutes ago, esldude said:

It is a good idea.

 

I think everyone starts not fully knowing what they wish to invest in time or effort, and not having experience to be a good judge of a system's capabilities.  Just additional experience and exposure usually will lead you to making better choices.  If you go thru this cycle a few times it becomes a habit of sorts. 

 

Now could a dealer or other person put together a competent system you would be happy with for quite some time?  Sure in theory.  However, if I had been advised to get my current gear initially I would have been appalled and bewildered.  I likely wouldn't have had the good sense to take the advice given. 

I didn't mean to imply you'd only every buy one set of audio components. You might not hit the mark on the first attempt, but two or three iterations of targeting specific aspects you find lacking really ought to be enough to end up with something satisfactory. What I find puzzling is the obsession with constantly "upgrading" to ever more expensive gear. Audiophiles are often accused of focusing more on the equipment than the music. Some seem, to me, still more concerned with buying new equipment than listening to what they've got.

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

We're really just funning him (or at least I am). Anyone who makes the kind of outrageous statements that GUTB does is going to be kidded. That's really all there is to it. When I make outrageous statements, I expect to be kidded too, don't you? 

 

Yes, he is mostly just a source of amusement here.

 

BUT, several times a new person has been given bad advice by GUTB - that can waste a neophyte's time, or money, or turn them off to the hobby entirely.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

When I make outrageous statements, I expect to be kidded too, don't you? 

 

Yes. You keep making blanket outrageous statements about cables that have nothing to do with Microwave, UHF or whatever .

[Jud]

2 minutes ago, mansr said:

I didn't mean to imply you'd only every buy one set of audio components. You might not hit the mark on the first attempt, but two or three iterations of targeting specific aspects you find lacking really ought to be enough to end up with something satisfactory. What I find puzzling is the obsession with constantly "upgrading" to ever more expensive gear. Audiophiles are often accused of focusing more on the equipment than the music. Some seem, to me, still more concerned with buying new equipment than listening to what they've got.

 

Audiophiles gonna talk about equipment.    I went through a period of 20 years without upgrading anything and was very happy.  The only reason I changed was when I heard modern DACs fed by files through player software, and thought these sounded better than what I’d had.  And the only reason I listened to the new stuff was because my disc player gave out.

 

 I have cables that are likely older than some people on this thread.

 

But even though I seldom change equipment, I enjoy reading discussions about what might be new in the world.

[kumakuma]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Yes. You keep making blanket outrageous statements about cables that have nothing to do with Microwave, UHF or whatever .

 

Only outrageous if you believe that audio equipment follows different rules of physics than the rest of the universe...  

[Ralf11]

that is much easier to do if you do not understand physics

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Jud said:

Audiophiles gonna talk about equipment.    I went through a period of 20 years without upgrading anything and was very happy.  The only reason I changed was when I heard modern DACs fed by files through player software, and thought these sounded better than what I’d had.  And the only reason I listened to the new stuff was because my disc player gave out.

Buying new equipment to keep up with shifts in technology isn't what I'm talking about, nor is replacing faulty items.

 

6 minutes ago, Jud said:

But even though I seldom change equipment, I enjoy reading discussions about what might be new in the world.

Sure, nothing wrong with keeping oneself informed.