How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

[Jud]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

Buying new equipment to keep up with shifts in technology isn't what I'm talking about, nor is replacing faulty items.

 

Right, I understood what I was talking about wasn’t what you were pointing out.

 

We’ve probably all been exposed to folks with “upgrade-itis” or similar afflictions, whether it’s to do with audio or some other hobby.  The one that really left me shaking my head was a record collector in Miami.  He had all sorts of old music on vinyl.  But to keep maximum value he hadn’t opened the plastic shrink wrap on any of it.  After years of Florida humidity getting through micro-holes in the wrap, the cardboard LP covers had expanded against the shrink wrap and curved.  There sat thousands of albums of some really wonderful music, none of it ever listened to, and all warped beyond playability even if he had wanted to listen.

[semente]

36 minutes ago, mansr said:

I didn't mean to imply you'd only every buy one set of audio components. You might not hit the mark on the first attempt, but two or three iterations of targeting specific aspects you find lacking really ought to be enough to end up with something satisfactory. What I find puzzling is the obsession with constantly "upgrading" to ever more expensive gear. Audiophiles are often accused of focusing more on the equipment than the music. Some seem, to me, still more concerned with buying new equipment than listening to what they've got.

 

There is a time in most audiophiles' lives when we obcess with equipment and accessories, when we listen ad nausea to the same audiophile-approved couple of tracks and live off magazine reviews.

 

It's a sad time but the spell can be broken and we will be able to enjoy music and life once more.

[mansr]

2 minutes ago, Jud said:

The one that really left me shaking my head was a record collector in Miami.  He had all sorts of old music on vinyl.  But to keep maximum value he hadn’t opened the plastic shrink wrap on any of it.  After years of Florida humidity getting through micro-holes in the wrap, the cardboard LP covers had expanded against the shrink wrap and curved.  There sat thousands of albums of some really wonderful music, none of it ever listened to, and all warped beyond playability even if he had wanted to listen.

Sounds more like a compulsive hoarder than someone with any actual interest in music or audio. It was probably random chance that he started collecting records specifically and not something else like postage stamps, film posters, or whatever.

[mansr]

3 minutes ago, semente said:

There is a time in most audiophiles lives when we obcess with equipment and accessories, when we listen and nausea to the same audiophile-approved couple of tracks and live off magazine reviews.

 

It's a sad time but the spell can be broken and we will be able to enjoy music and life once more.

Are you describing a mid-life crisis?

[semente]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

Are you describing a mid-life crisis?

It's more of an audiophile-crisis. And it strikes people of all ages...

[mansr]

Just now, semente said:

It's more of an audiophile-crisis. And it strikes people of all ages...

Hasn't happened to me yet.

[Jud]

4 minutes ago, semente said:

 

There is a time in most audiophiles' lives when we obcess with equipment and accessories, when we listen ad nausea to the same audiophile-approved couple of tracks and live off magazine reviews.

 

It's a sad time but the spell can be broken and we will be able to enjoy music and life once more.

 

I did pore over reviews and obsess over equipment more in my early days.  But I never restricted my listening to “audiophile-approved” albums.  I’ve always liked a wide variety of music far too much for that.

[semente]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

Hasn't happened to me yet.

Lucky you, though I don't think you have the right profile. I had it in my early twenties. Even bought a couple of audiophile CDs.

[GUTB]

Audiophiles are constantly pursuing greater audio quality. This upwards pressure in audio quality attainment means that spend will go up. If you don’t place much value in audio quality than you’re not an audiophile.

 

There’s a self-serving class warfare fantasy that audio quality doesn’t correlate with price — it generally does, and pretending your low-end / ultra low-end gear sounds good doesn’t actually make it so.

[Ralf11]

" it generally does"

 

ok then, what is the correlation coefficient?

 

are the residuals randomly distributed?

[mansr]

1 hour ago, semente said:

Lucky you, though I don't think you have the right profile. I had it in my early twenties.

I was studying electronic engineering in my early 20s.

[davide256]

3 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

LOL, now that's an elitist and ridiculous view if I have ever heard of one. Are you and GUTB in a competition?

Hmm, classic troll baiting behavior... get a life

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, GUTB said:

Audiophiles are constantly pursuing greater audio quality. This upwards pressure in audio quality attainment means that spend will go up. If you don’t place much value in audio quality than you’re not an audiophile.

 

There’s a self-serving class warfare fantasy that audio quality doesn’t correlate with price — it generally does, and pretending your low-end / ultra low-end gear sounds good doesn’t actually make it so.

 

Ok...

 

lets say I had a very early transistor radio, yet considered myself an audiophile but I didn't have much budget, so I went searching Craigslist for a good deal on a newer piece of equipment and found a deal on a 1970-ish Marantz Receiver.  By your definition I have pursued greater audio quality and am therefore an audiophile now...

[AudioDoctor]

1 minute ago, davide256 said:

Hmm, classic troll baiting behavior... get a life

 

Got one, thanks.

[davide256]

2 hours ago, semente said:

 

There is a time in most audiophiles' lives when we obcess with equipment and accessories, when we listen ad nausea to the same audiophile-approved couple of tracks and live off magazine reviews.

 

It's a sad time but the spell can be broken and we will be able to enjoy music and life once more.

My spouse hates it when I'm auditioning new gear because she hears the same  tracks over and over as  I change cables, PS and anything I can think of to A/B test  changes and gear. Its a hobbyist's way of life. Color me odd, but I find it fun.

[Nordkapp]

2 minutes ago, davide256 said:

My spouse hates it when I'm auditioning new gear because she hears the same  tracks over and over as  I change cables, PS and anything I can think of to A/B test  changes and gear. Its a hobbyist's way of life. Color me odd, but I find it fun.

You're not odd. It's a fun and healthy hobby. Extrapolating every last ounce of sound from any given system is a noble endeavor in my book. 

[Jud]

51 minutes ago, mansr said:

I was studying electronic engineering in my early 20s.

 

And here you are on an audio forum.  Where did you go wrong?

[mansr]

36 minutes ago, Jud said:

And here you are on an audio forum.  Where did you go wrong?

Good question.

[gmgraves]

6 hours ago, mansr said:

I don't understand the constant talk about upgrade paths and what to get next. Is it not permitted to simply buy a competent system one can afford and be happy with it (for the time being)?

Seems like a contradiction to me, mansr. I assume that budding audiophiles (both of them) do just what you suggest. They purchase the most competent system that they can afford and are generally happy with it for a while. But as they gain listening experience, start reading the magazines and start going to shows, they begin to see (hear?) the shortcomings of their current systems and start to look for ways to improve the sound they are getting. Buy a new DAC, a new amp, perhaps better speakers, etc. are the pathways to a better system, so they start to upgrade. It's a natural progression for this hobby. My first system was modest, even by that days' standard, but I kept upgrading it By the time I was at my first real job out of college, I had replaced everything and I never looked back. I do now of course. There are things I had that I would give my eye-teeth to have again (my Audio Empire 498 Troubadour turntable, for instance or that tank of a three-motor Pioneer cassette recorder which I sold when I bought the Aiwa F9000 which, while giving superior performance, wasn't as well made and died after a few years) but mostly every move was a sonic upgrade.  

[gmgraves]

4 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

Yes, he is mostly just a source of amusement here.

 

BUT, several times a new person has been given bad advice by GUTB - that can waste a neophyte's time, or money, or turn them off to the hobby entirely.

That is also a problem with a lot of the stuff that gets said here and other forums. I used to think that by countering what was clearly bad advice I could "save neophytes from such a fate". But I found out that you can't do that without stepping on the almost religious belief systems of other posters. So I stopped trying to save folks from themselves. That doesn't mean that I've changed my mind about certain issues, and I will still voice them, but that's because a little controversy is fun!

[gmgraves]

4 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

Yes. You keep making blanket outrageous statements about cables that have nothing to do with Microwave, UHF or whatever .

Yeah, I do don't I? Don't you know that unless your interconnects can pass a perfect square wave at a frequency of at least 1 Ghz, they're no good! ?

[davide256]

8 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

That is also a problem with a lot of the stuff that gets said here and other forums. I used to think that by countering what was clearly bad advice I could "save neophytes from such a fate". But I found out that you can't do that without stepping on the almost religious belief systems of other posters. So I stopped trying to save folks from themselves. That doesn't mean that I've changed my mind about certain issues, and I will still voice them, but that's because a little controversy is fun!

Agree. Although some remind me more of OCD  when they can't respect a difference of opinion.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

6 hours ago, mansr said:

I don't understand the constant talk about upgrade paths and what to get next. Is it not permitted to simply buy a competent system one can afford and be happy with it (for the time being)?

 

I did 20 years ago. Then again a few years ago.

 

 

5 hours ago, kumakuma said:

 

Only if "the hobby" is defined as enjoying good music on good equipment.

Unfortunately,  some here are focused much more on the equipment than the music with the result being a never-ending quest to upgrade.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with the equipment being part of the hobby. I believe that there is too much focus on those audiophiles that  focus more on the equipment than the music. It is like that is the only kind of audiophile and we are reinventing the definition. Everyone on this forum could be defined as "audiophile".

 

5 hours ago, mansr said:

What I find puzzling is the obsession with constantly "upgrading" to ever more expensive gear. Audiophiles are often accused of focusing more on the equipment than the music. Some seem, to me, still more concerned with buying new equipment than listening to what they've got.

 

people with such extreme views steal the focus and misrepresent the general population of which they form a part (i disagree with you that its a large part ). I can think of a number of examples outside audio.

 

 

4 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Audiophiles gonna talk about equipment.    I went through a period of 20 years without upgrading anything and was very happy.  The only reason I changed was when I heard modern DACs fed by files through player software, and thought these sounded better than what I’d had.  And the only reason I listened to the new stuff was because my disc player gave out.

 

 I have cables that are likely older than some people on this thread.

 

But even though I seldom change equipment, I enjoy reading discussions about what might be new in the world.

 

Ditto

 

 

4 hours ago, mansr said:

Hasn't happened to me yet.

 

You're too young for a mid life anything ?. Lucky you

 

2 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

lets say I had a very early transistor radio, yet considered myself an audiophile but I didn't have much budget, so I went searching Craigslist for a good deal on a newer piece of equipment and found a deal on a 1970-ish Marantz Receiver.  By your definition I have pursued greater audio quality and am therefore an audiophile now...

 

Sure. I think GUTB might be saying that it doesn't have to stop there which is fine by me, unless of course you are happy at that point and that is also fine. The problem as I see it is the notion that you must feel compelled to upgrade at all costs, costs no object.

 

1 hour ago, mansr said:

Good question.

 

 I am actually curious too. You know a lot about audio, clearly, but sometimes I wonder what motivates you. take that as rhetorical if too personal.

[gmgraves]

3 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Agree. Although some remind me more of OCD  when they can't respect a difference of opinion.

That's a slippery slope. For instance, if one were to say that transistors sound better than tubes, that's an opinion and there's plenty of room to argue the point with evidence on both sides to support it. On the other hand, if one were to assert that the earth is flat, that's just wrong. But believe it or not there are people who still believe that the earth is flat, and if you tell them they're wrong, they will argue with you vehemently by pointing out observations that have drawn the wrong conclusions and by their faith in the facts that their eyes perceive a flat earth and that they don't fall off of a round one. 

[sandyk]

12 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Yeah, I do don't I? Don't you know that unless your interconnects can pass a perfect square wave at a frequency of at least 1 Ghz, they're no good! ?

Do you have a 1GHZ Square Wave Generator that I can borrow to try this ?