How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

[Bill Brown]

I understand elcorso, and I have been worried since posting that you may have felt I was lecturing you. I mainly was responding to the science mentioned by “Audiophile Neuroscience” in a conversational way; guess I remain excited about the subject. 

 

 I am a strong believer in individual freedom. 

 

it is true that is the reason for many of the people who stop statins. Thankfully many more are able to continue them and benefit from them- including me!

 

I am am fairly aggressive with my lipids, my father having had an MI at 47. 

 

interesting re. the CPK. We are able to fractionate it to determine how much comes from skeletal muscle v cardiac muscle (CK-MB). Thankfully rarely, it is skeletal muscle that is affected by statins. And CK-MB was largely replaced by a much more sensitive and specific assay for troponins in the mid 90s, though CK-MB still has some specific utility. 

 

I wish you nothing but the best for your health and all things. 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

Hi Roch,

perhaps a little more info that may provide some perspective. Feel free to disregard it of course.

 

3 hours ago, elcorso said:

 

I would put stress as number one. At least that part I got over ...!

The irony of all this is that when I try to quit smoking anxiety stresses me and my heart goes crazy.

 

Roch

 

Stress may cause a myriad of health problems but if it "makes your heart go crazy" that suggests symptoms such as palpitation, arrhythmias etc rather than atherosclerosis (which is insidious and silent in its development). Stress no doubt may contribute to the genesis of atherosclerosis and may trigger angina once atherosclerosis/ischaemic heart disease is established but hardly rates as a risk factor for atherosclerosis/ischaemic heart disease compared to bad family history, smoking, high blood pressure, high LDL/low HDL etc. These risk factors for atherosclerosis/ischaemic heart disease are well known and have been detailed since the Framingham studies in the 1950's onwards. There are online risk calculators for those interested. There are also risk calculations for stroke, such as CHADs scores (for those also with AF, atrial fib) etc.

 

I am not trivializing stress just trying to place it in perspective.

 

3 hours ago, elcorso said:

 

That is not the opinion of my cardiologists.

It's more common than medical industry want to recognize. 

It is the main cause why people stop statins (accepted by my cardiologists).

That's why they screen test for CK (CPK) after the treatment.  I find it ironic that it is the same test to determine if you are going to be or had a heart attack.

 

 

SAMS or statin related muscle symptoms exist along a spectrum.

 

Muscle pain (aching) or fatigue aka Myalgia and Muscle cramping are very common, around 20% lets say. Countering this are some studies suggesting a strong nocebo effect (Lancet IIRC). Nonetheless these relatively benign but common bloody annoying symptoms are widely reported. None of the cardiologists I know deny this, nor in my experience involving cardiac rehabilitation or more recently in musculoskeletal medicine related areas, is this contested.Drug interactions can potentiate this and even drinking grapefruit juice. So can low vit D and low thyroid hormone. Your also out of luck if you are a low body mass female (but win in other ways no doubt ? ).

 

Much more serious muscle problems like true Myopathy, Myositis, and Rhabdomyolysis are uncommon as Bill Brown said. Rhabdomyolysis is the biggy, causes actual breakdown of muscle which in turn can cause the liver and kidneys to pack up and ...death. It occurs in a few cases per Million ie it is rare. As he also said general CPK is not the same as the specific cardiac muscle enzyme and in fact , even the presence or absence of myalgias does not correlate reliably with this CPK measure. A rising level in the right clinical context would always be taken seriously however.

[Jud]

8 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

Drug interactions can potentiate this and even drinking grapefruit juice.

 

Rosuvastatin ("Crestor" in the US) doesn't have the problematic interactions with grapefruit, at least not on the same level.  Good thing for me, as I like a morning glass of grapefruit juice.

[elcorso]

Just to end my participation regarding statins, my VERY personal conclusions:

 

- Each organism reacts differently for each medication ingested.

 

- The medicines I use are to cure diseases and / or to improve my quality of life, if the side effects lead me to a worse quality of life, I do not take it. I find that longevity does not matter to me, if it is going to be painful, or very unpleasant.

 

Now I am taking a new medicine (not for cholesterol), which in its side effects is, "feeling as if it is going to die." The problem is that I'm not going to know when I'm really dying?  Still, I've kept on taking it for more than a year, hoping for results that I have not noticed yet, nor do I see any improvement in my laboratory tests. Maybe next week I'll have some good news. I am always very optimistic
 

According to my cardiologists, the pharmaceutical industry is still looking for a statin that only increases HDL and does not produce as many side effects as the current ones.

 

Recently there was an important controversy regarding the massive and indiscriminate use of certain statins, between JAMA and the American Heart Association. I believe they reached some agreement and decided not to continue discussing the issue, "because more studies are needed".

 

David, thank you very much for your feedback.

 

 @Jud, I was taking Crestor 5mg (low dose statins) and I had no side effects, but they discontinued it in my country, but please let me know if it still exists in the USA. A little difficult to buy prescription drugs in the USA for me, but I can find the way. I took it not because I have high lipid levels but to lower levels of inflammation (according to my cardiologists), although the screen tests do not show any inflammation.

 

@Bill Brown, you have been blessed by the Gods and I guarantee (or at least I wish) you that you will live much longer than 47 years!

 

Carpe diem!

 

Roch

[Pete-FIN]

On 6/1/2018 at 4:35 AM, GUTB said:

Now that I’ve settled on the ProAc D30Rs I’m on the hunt for an amp/pre or integrated that can take them to the next level. A wider strategic aim is to build a system that can reveal more benifits from higher end sources.

 

Hei @GUTB, have you found and acquired 'attainable priced' amplifier for the D30R's? I'd love to hear your experiences with the ProAc's, what aspects you like about the speakers and what has your experience been with different amplifiers.

[GUTB]

4 hours ago, Pete-FIN said:

 

Hei @GUTB, have you found and acquired 'attainable priced' amplifier for the D30R's? I'd love to hear your experiences with the ProAc's, what aspects you like about the speakers and what has your experience been with different amplifiers.

 

I really enjoy the D30R’s ability to image. Images are solid and well-defined in space; better recordings image so well that the illusion isn’t degraded even when looking directly at the speaker. Dynamic resolution and power is a clear step above other great speakers I’ve owned in this class — not as powerful as the Zu Omens with thier 10" paper drivers, but a clear winner over other 6-7" driver units. I didn’t fully appreciate the dynamic ability of the speakers until I set up my new turntable and cartridge which took my vinyl playback to the next level and gave me real dynamics.

 

The only nit I have to pick is that I feel driver integration isn’t seamless like my Fritz or my Thiels; I sense a small degree of segregation between the mid drivers and the ribbons but this issue is easily ignorable...also, it might have something to do with my room because I don’t recall hearing that at the dealers I auditioned them at.

 

They are NOT easy to drive. My Allegro monoblocks which were superb performers on the Thiels and Fritzs’ just couldn’t handle the ProAcs — they would clip hideaously and send the amps into fault mode — which gave me a heart attack each time they did it. I ended up picking up an Oddessy Stratos used for $800 as a filler amp...but this pairing is SO STRONG I’m honestly in no rush to upgrade. Imaging, dynamics, SPL, drive, etc, all without the slightest edge or fatigue. Highs through the D30R’s ribbons are like looking through a crystal clear pane of glass even at high volume. Even though these amps are super affordable ($1200 starting I believe) I can wholeheartedly approve of them at least for these speakers. GUTB seal of quality. Part of the reason why I got the Stratos was because in my communication with the owner of Odyssey (Klaus) I was assured that synergy with ProAcs is "very very very good". The downside is that if you buy new you may be in for a LONG wait to get your amp due to large backorders. 

 

 

[Pete-FIN]

Thanks for a good answer, sounds like you are having a good time with ProAc's. I also enjoy 6½ inch 2-way speakers in my medium size living room. I have Dynaudio Focus 160 standmount speakers at the moment.

 

btw, ProAc premiered brand new speaker in Munich this year, they call it K3.

Here's picture of the K3 in Munich.

 

More info of the new speaker here 

https://www.audiovenue.uk/newly-launched/proac-k3/
http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/proac-k3-speakers-pair/

 

Since you like ProAcs sound, it would be super interesting to see you do a video review of the new K3. I have my fingers crossed

[4est]

On 6/21/2018 at 11:26 PM, elcorso said:

 

I tried everything Jud, Champix (this side of the planet) and even a shrink...

 

Best,

 

Roch

FWIW Roch, quitting smoking is the single hardest thing I have ever done.

[GUTB]

1 hour ago, Pete-FIN said:

Thanks for a good answer, sounds like you are having a good time with ProAc's. I also enjoy 6½ inch 2-way speakers in my medium size living room. I have Dynaudio Focus 160 standmount speakers at the moment.

 

btw, ProAc premiered brand new speaker in Munich this year, they call it K3.

Here's picture of the K3 in Munich.

 

More info of the new speaker here 

https://www.audiovenue.uk/newly-launched/proac-k3/
http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/proac-k3-speakers-pair/

 

Since you like ProAcs sound, it would be super interesting to see you do a video review of the new K3. I have my fingers crossed

 

Wow those look stellar. Seems like I was a sucker for missing Munich this year (again).

[Whitigir]

It cost a good pairs of ears and a heart of enthusiasm to be an audiophile, everything else is irrelevant especially money