MQA is Vaporware

[FredericV]

More bogus claims:

https://essentialinstall.com/features/exclusive-ei-interview-bob-stuart-mqa-meridian-co-founder/

 

Quote

Compared to regular PCM, MQA delivers at least 15 times more resolution

 

It can't even correctly reproduce anything above 88.2 or 96 Khz sampling, in case of DXD sources, MQA is band limited to 88.2 Khz sampling, as it can only do one unfold (44.1 Khz base rate x2 + upsampling back to 24/352.8). The upsampling aka second unfold does not recover any new entropy.

Suppose MQA unfolds to 17/88.2 internal resolution, and DXD is 24/352, the available entropy is actually a 4x lower sample rate and 7 lost bits, so 128x4 times aka 512 times lower resolution than DXD.

The red trace show the actual entropy MQA can recover, using only the first unfold.
The green trace adds the leaky upsample filter garbage aka aliasing which the second unfold adds. This fake content above 44.1 Khz (max analog frequency at 88.2 Khz sampling) is certainly not authentic.

[Allan F]

Aw c'mon! Surely you are not suggesting that MQA is making false claims.

[Currawong]

They seem to be attracting a few Chinese manufacturers now. I've pointed out to at least one how there are no multiple unfolds, and that it is not lossless. I think it is time to find out what they have actually been telling manufacturers that implement it, as if the manufacturers posting false info, I don't see where else they could have gotten it from.

[SilvesterH]

What attracted my attention is the peer reviewed part.

Do we miss something here?

Who are those peers and where is the material? 

[UkPhil]

It's not an official list, but is does give you a broad brush stroke as to were MQA has got some licencing revenue 

 

https://purpl3f0x.github.io/mqa-devices/

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Nice to see a high resolution/streaming article in the more mainstream press that isn’t injected with MQA marketing. 
 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksparrow/2020/05/27/qobuz-ditches-mp3s-and-welcomes-sonos-into-the-world-of-hi-res-music/amp/

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Nice to see a high resolution/streaming article in the more mainstream press that isn’t injected with MQA marketing. 
 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksparrow/2020/05/27/qobuz-ditches-mp3s-and-welcomes-sonos-into-the-world-of-hi-res-music/amp/

I don't have numbers to prove it, but I am fairly certain the number of MQA releases is slowing down dramatically. 

[bruny]

Seems that MQA have a few new partnerships. 
 

https://www.avforums.com/news/mqa-expands-global-partnerships-for-high-end-experience.17636

[Confused]

17 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Nice to see a high resolution/streaming article in the more mainstream press that isn’t injected with MQA marketing. 
 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksparrow/2020/05/27/qobuz-ditches-mp3s-and-welcomes-sonos-into-the-world-of-hi-res-music/amp/

To be fair, this is probably because the article is little more than an advertorial for Qobuz....

 

Although interestingly, this one does not mention MQA either

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2020/05/28/tidal-opens-up-dolby-atmos-music-streaming-to-any-dolby-atmos-sound-system/#5828f016cce1

 

and neither does this one ...

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/frankwoodworth/2020/01/24/how-tidal-can-embrace-its-mission-to-win-the-music-streaming-wars/#62b087535fce

 

or this one ...

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/korihale/2019/12/09/jay-zs-return-to-spotify-could-be-the-nail-in-tidals-coffin/#742393df6b98

[Kal Rubinson]

This thread reminds me of an old joke from high school:

Two guys on a city bus.

Guy1:  Why do you keep throwing tissues out of the window throughout the ride?
Guy2:  They keep away the elephants.

Guy1:  But there are no elephants................

Guy2:  Effective, isn't it?

🙃

[KeenObserver]

On 5/17/2020 at 5:07 PM, FredericV said:

More bogus claims:

https://essentialinstall.com/features/exclusive-ei-interview-bob-stuart-mqa-meridian-co-founder/

 

 

It can't even correctly reproduce anything above 88.2 or 96 Khz sampling, in case of DXD sources, MQA is band limited to 88.2 Khz sampling, as it can only do one unfold (44.1 Khz base rate x2 + upsampling back to 24/352.8). The upsampling aka second unfold does not recover any new entropy.

Suppose MQA unfolds to 17/88.2 internal resolution, and DXD is 24/352, the available entropy is actually a 4x lower sample rate and 7 lost bits, so 128x4 times aka 512 times lower resolution than DXD.

The red trace show the actual entropy MQA can recover, using only the first unfold.
The green trace adds the leaky upsample filter garbage aka aliasing which the second unfold adds. This fake content above 44.1 Khz (max analog frequency at 88.2 Khz sampling) is certainly not authentic.

 

Honest to God, I have never seen anyone like Bob Stuart, who can go on for so long, and say nothing!

 

Watch a Professor Irwin Corey skit and tell me that is not Bob Stuart.

[jma2]

On 5/30/2020 at 6:14 PM, Kal Rubinson said:

This thread reminds me of an old joke from high school:

Two guys on a city bus.

Guy1:  Why do you keep throwing tissues out of the window throughout the ride?
Guy2:  They keep away the elephants.

Guy1:  But there are no elephants................

Guy2:  Effective, isn't it?

🙃

Could it be that those guys both missed "the elephant in the city bus"?

😉

[Kal Rubinson]

6 hours ago, jma2 said:

Could it be that those guys both missed "the elephant in the city bus"?

😉

Thank goodness for the smiley!

[Confused]

14 hours ago, jma2 said:

Could it be that those guys both missed "the elephant in the city bus"?

😉

Maybe MQA is elephantware? 

[KeenObserver]

1 hour ago, Confused said:

Maybe MQA is elephantware? 

 

MQA seems to be the Creature That Wouldn't Die.

 

I don't blame Jbara and Stuart for milking the MQA money tree for all they can.  But does the money behind MQA Ltd really see a cash cow in the future?  Do they really think that they are going to ram MQA down the throats of the music consumer?

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, KeenObserver said:

 

MQA seems to be the Creature That Wouldn't Die.

 

I don't blame Jbara and Stuart for milking the MQA money tree for all they can.  But does the money behind MQA Ltd really see a cash cow in the future?  Do they really think that they are going to ram MQA down the throats of the music consumer?

They probably hope to sell it to Dobly or the like, so it can be rebranded and used in areas Stuart and Jbara can’t penetrate. 

[kumakuma]

5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

They probably hope to sell it to Dobly or the like, so it can be rebranded and used in areas Stuart and Jbara can’t penetrate. 

 

I agree. Acquisition would appear to be the most desirable exit strategy for MQA shareholders.

 

Perhaps we should start a crowdfunding campaign to buy the company and then liquidate it. 👺

[KeenObserver]

5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

They probably hope to sell it to Dobly or the like, so it can be rebranded and used in areas Stuart and Jbara can’t penetrate. 

 

Stuart and Jbara tried to penetrate the music consumer.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Everyone knows the amount of money taken by MQA from HiFi consumers probably doesn’t cover the salaries at the company. The goal is much larger, but we’ve all been used to get them to the next phase. 

[kumakuma]

9 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

 

Stuart and Jbara tried to penetrate the music consumer.

 

Ouch!

[John Dyson]

Think about this paranoid thought -- maybe MQA based access control is more interesting to the intellectual property owners when the old, cheap 'encryption' method of FA encoding is no longer useful.  That is, it is apparent that the intellectual property owners DO NOT want the consumer to have access to the family jewels, so they almost always do something to distort them.

MQA follows from FA of the middle 1980s.

 

Ever wonder why we never get 'full quality', but there is almost always (really always) some stumbling block that all of us know in our hearts is not technical.   There isn't a technical reason why I am not listening to a digital image of a decoded ABBA master tape, as there isn't a technical reason why there are very few near-perfect copies of Supertramp or whatever other group that is loved by audiophiles (okay, ABBA doesn't really count :-)).

 

The reason for not distributing near-perfect copies of master tapes isn't technical.  Radio stations can always do loudness processing, can't they?  Maybe a little bit of dynamic range control can be beneficial, but more than 10dB of compression?  Naw -- not really needed except for very wide dynamic range material, and that tends to be an exception outside of classical and a few esoteric recordings.

Sure, loudness sells... But, how do you judge the loudness of a CD before you purchase it?   So, what the heck is going on?

 

Answer:  I don't think that the IP owners want the public to have access to crystal clear/clean copies of their IP.   It isn't hard to produce a simply clean copy of a master tape after all of the mumbo-jumbo needed like SR, DolbyA, TelcomC4 or whatever....  After the simple, standardized, controlled processing, most master tapes don't sound bad, certainly not as bad as even a mildly compressed copy.  (Again, there ARE cases where post-mix compression really does help, just like a bit of careful gating or expansion pre-mixdown.)

 

Oh well, I just see MQA as part of a progression to control access to IP, and in itself is IP that can be controlled -- it is about the Benjamins and control.

 

John

 

[UkPhil]

More from Stereonet and Mr J what would have been shown this year ? https://www.stereonet.co.uk/news/mqa-high-end-munich-2020-announcements

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

14 hours ago, UkPhil said:

More from Stereonet and Mr J what would have been shown this year ? https://www.stereonet.co.uk/news/mqa-high-end-munich-2020-announcements

Yawn. I would not spend a shekel oh any of these paperweights. 

[tipunch]

Very interesting interview with Jim Collison Marketing Director Linn

 

https://www.linn.co.uk/blog/mqa-is-bad-for-music

Or how MQA wants to take over the complete monopoly of music distribution...While offering questionable quality...

[FredericV]

I don't understand why the believers still believe there is a third unfold:

 

Are some of the MQA evangelists to blame, for spreading the false claim that there is a third unfold, while MQA only does one true unfold (which recovers at best 17/96 or 17/88.2 from a 24/48 or 24/44.1 stream) and then the second unfold upsamples this to whatever value as dictated by the metadata.

Plots of the spectrum show MQA is not authentic above either 44.1 or 48 Khz in the analog domain. If you would encode an inaudible 60 Khz tone in your source material, MQA would lose that. Embed an inaudible 40 Khz tone, and it would probably be kept after MQA encoding / decoding.