MQA is Vaporware

[asdf1000]

12 hours ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Good catch. I

 

Thanks. That's the most interesting thing I've seen on this thread for a long time.

 

And I didn't need the help of my golfing buddies! 

 

Something tells me Brinkmann designer wasn't supposed to disclose that piece of info...

[maxijazz]

21 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

[...] religious right wing [...]

Why not “radical left wing”?

[The Computer Audiophile]

19 minutes ago, maxijazz said:

Why not “radical left wing”?

Same thing but didn’t have alliteration and less likely to bare arms.  

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Same thing but didn’t have alliteration and less likely to bare arms.  

 

 

 It's colder where they come from ?

[Fast and Bulbous]

What I really would love to see from this thread / group is a document putting forward the argument against MQA, supported by the evidence and facts this group has indivdually and collectively gathered, reported, tested, learned, observed. One that is clear, logical, non inflamatory and fully defensible and that can be reproduced by others as definitive. That would include other sites, the specialist press - be it audio, music or tech in general.  Maybe that could be posted / pinned to the group (not sure if that is feasible here?).

I have pointed other folk at this site and they give up reading as soon as they see all of the personal stuff when they just want to know some informed opinion about MQA.

 

For the record I am vehemently against MQA and would welcome such a document. Our world needs it. It could be a lasting output from this group. The content is in here amongst all of the previous 783 comments. Is a matter of curation. In that regard it could be added to / evolved as time goes by so it forms an ongoing record.

I am not the person to do this - my level of expertise in the specific technology is insufficient, especially considering some of the contributors here who know a lot more than me. But I do know enough to be able to understand the arguments and agree with them when they are presented clearly. I suspect there are many like me in that regard.

[asdf1000]

22 minutes ago, Fast and Bulbous said:

What I really would love to see from this thread / group is a document putting forward the argument against MQA, supported by the evidence and facts this group has indivdually and collectively gathered, reported, tested, learned, observed. One that is clear, logical, non inflamatory and fully defensible and that can be reproduced by others as definitive. That would include other sites, the specialist press - be it audio, music or tech in general.  Maybe that could be posted / pinned to the group (not sure if that is feasible here?).

I have pointed other folk at this site and they give up reading as soon as they see all of the personal stuff when they just want to know some informed opinion about MQA.

 

For the record I am vehemently against MQA and would welcome such a document. Our world needs it. It could be a lasting output from this group. The content is in here amongst all of the previous 783 comments. Is a matter of curation. In that regard it could be added to / evolved as time goes by so it forms an ongoing record.

I am not the person to do this - my level of expertise in the specific technology is insufficient, especially considering some of the contributors here who know a lot more than me. But I do know enough to be able to understand the arguments and agree with them when they are presented clearly. I suspect there are many like me in that regard.

 

The good technical info isn't in this Vaporware thread.

 

It is here:

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/mqa-a-review-of-controversies-concerns-and-cautions-r701/

 

 

And here:

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30572-mqa-technical-analysis/

[Fast and Bulbous]

Thank you asdf1000, I did not realise that.

 

Is good stuff. Feels like it needs a clear synopsis before the deep dive though - maybe that is elsewhere too? And not just the technical information, but the whole picture including the commercial moves, the financial history and so on. It is all embedded in the previous 783 pages, do you know if it is captured clearly anywhere else? If I am showing my ignorioance, please forgive me.

 

Will look more at those two threads rather than having so many posts from here that are not adding to my understanding and have to be trawled through for the now seemingly rare new information.

Again, many thanks for the links.

[asdf1000]

14 minutes ago, Fast and Bulbous said:

Feels like it needs a clear synopsis before the deep dive though - maybe that is elsewhere too?

 

Read that first link first. I think most of what you seek is in that article. 

 

Much better than the 784 pages of this Vaporware thread.

 

 

 

[Fast and Bulbous]

Will do...

[wdw]

they never give it up....!

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/mqa-supports-jazz-refresheds-sxsw-artists-to-reach-a-worldwide-audience-and-capture-the-outstanding-experience/

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, wdw said:

they never give it up....!

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/mqa-supports-jazz-refresheds-sxsw-artists-to-reach-a-worldwide-audience-and-capture-the-outstanding-experience/

And they do it like only MQA can. Anonymous authors, and attaching marketing press releases to bands / artists. 

 

[MikeyFresh]

I thought it interesting that the revamped HDtracks site is now powered by OraSteam. Could we one day potentially be looking at a redux of the still born HDmusicStream, that evidently is currently the subject of litigation between 7digital and the Cheskys?

 

Will anyone other than the record labels make streaming profitable in the current landscape? Have the record labels pursued/demanded short term profits under the current model at the expense of real sustainability?

[ARQuint]

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

And they do it like only MQA can. Anonymous authors, and attaching marketing press releases to bands / artists. 

 

 

 

Gimme a break, guys.

At the top of the magazine's home page, between "Equipment Reports" and "Show Reports" is a content category called "News" that consists largely of press releases from audio manufacturers and others with skin in the game, including a lot of record labels. You can tell because every one begins with the words "The following is a press release issued by…" It's obviously marketing, the magazine exhibiting support for the ecosystem we are part of. Please scroll down through the category: Naim, Reference Recordings, Quboz , Yarlung, McIntosh, Thorens, German Physiks, Musical Surroundings, Wilson, KEF, Focal, Parasound, etc, etc, etc—the list goes on for 67 pages! All those announcements are credited to "TAS Staff." Is the magazine really "shilling" for all those hundreds of companies?

Chris himself once said in reference to an especially zealous zealot, "When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail." So it is for some people who view MQA as an evil beyond evil, and even a neutral presentation of an announcement from the company as some kind of ethical lapse. Like it or not, MQA is a part of this industry. TAS accepts their announcements without fear or favor, as we do everyone else's.

Andy Quint

TAS

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, ARQuint said:

 

 

Gimme a break, guys.

 

At the top of the magazine's home page, between "Equipment Reports" and "Show Reports" is a content category called "News" that consists largely of press releases from audio manufacturers and others with skin in the game, including a lot of record labels. You can tell because every one begins with the words "The following is a press release issued by…" It's obviously marketing, the magazine exhibiting support for the ecosystem we are part of. Please scroll down through the category: Naim, Reference Recordings, Quboz , Yarlung, McIntosh, Thorens, German Physiks, Musical Surroundings, Wilson, KEF, Focal, Parasound, etc, etc, etc—the list goes on for 67 pages! All those announcements are credited to "TAS Staff." Is the magazine really "shilling" for all those hundreds of companies?

 

Chris himself once said in reference to an especially zealous zealot, "When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail." So it is for some people who view MQA as an evil beyond evil, and even a neutral presentation of an announcement from the company as some kind of ethical lapse. Like it or not, MQA is a part of this industry. TAS accepts their announcements without fear or favor, as we do everyone else's.

 

 

 

Andy Quint

 

TAS

 

My point was that it’s hard for MQA to get a name behind it now days, thus depending on anonymous press releases, and they must attach themselves to bands and even crises. Years ago RH would’ve written about something like this. 

Nothing wrong with press releases. As long as they benefit your readers, they should be happy. 
 

Not sure who this press release benefits other than MQA. 

[MikeyFresh]

36 minutes ago, ARQuint said:

Like it or not, MQA is a part of this industry. TAS accepts their announcements without fear or favor, as we do everyone else's.

 

The latter, I do not like or accept that MQA has any place in this industry. We've been through all of the reasons why that stance is valid, I won't repeat them for you as they are well known and documented.

 

So TAS doesn't discriminate whatsoever with regard to whose press releases are published? 

 

The part in the release about "MQA makes video sound better because of its unique deblurring process" is both comical and bullshit at the very same time, that's the kind of thing TAS is OK with regurgitating ad nauseam? Upsampling with leaky MP filters is not unique, nor is it deblurring anything, no matter how many times TAS repeats it, in press releases, reviews, or otherwise. Yes that's an ethical lapse.

[Lighthouse]

My goodness, after all of years I left this forum and just came back, all I still see is this ridiculous MQA debate. I am utterly surprised they are still pushing this.

 

Just how much money was burned to keep the wheel? I understand that South African investor is behind Meridian but I am still surprised he is still pouring money into it.

[KeenObserver]

It is interesting how times have changed. There was a time when the major studios,  in conjunction with their magazine mouthpieces,  would have simply implemented MQA, the music consumer be damned.  They would not have even used lubricant.

But this is the age of the internet.  People openly questioned the BS that MQA was spewing,  much to the consternation of MQA and its magazine mouthpieces.  People would not simply bend over and take MQA.

The truth came out about MQA.

That is the paradigm shift.

[maxijazz]

On 5/4/2020 at 1:24 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Same thing but didn’t have alliteration and less likely to bare arms.  

MQA is capitalistic grab of money, it seems.

Anti-MQA crowd stand up for uneducated, helpless audiophiles, that needs protection from greedy capitalists demanding licensing fees for nothing.

 

I thought "antifa" and others (especially left-wing militias of past, before socialism won undoubtedly in western countries) are not afraid of arms.

[jma2]

No need to get "militaristic" in my opinion. Just live-up to your opinion if you (just like me) don't want MQA to go anywhere (e.g. avoid MQA enabled gear/services/advertising entities) and properly inform your "neighborhood" or surroundings when they ask you for advice. Our wallet is our best instrument to put to the cause.

 

I am actually quite pleasantly surprised lately about how many people already see the picture concerning MQA. More and more people (at least in my environment) seem to have a de-blurred vision concerning MQA. The propaganda isn't working anymore in my opinion (even though the danger of MQA might still be relevant) or at least less and less. The investors in MQA might realize this but still have some contractual dependencies. After Corona and once these terms end, they might well review their investments in a better directions (at least it would seem logical to me). The equipment vendors might have chosen MQA as "another" option to differentiate themselves from the rest at the time of the hype or not to miss the hype... they may already regret it eventually (or am I naive?).

 

To give you an example: My neighbor consulted me for a new and modern system, went to the local shop to listen to some available gear and explicitly told the owner of the good shop not being interested in any MQA enabled equipment. That, according to my neighbor caused the owner of the shop to sympathize (real or not, I don't know). Nevertheless the owner luckily had sufficient non-MQA enabled gear to choose from. My neighbor also chose Qobuz over Tidal (no, I didn't push him, but guided him, pointed him to the "objective" articles (also referred to by others recently)).

 

In short, we can all do something right and meaningfull without the need to offend or get aggressive about it. By the way, I don't have a problem with people who want to shout about it either... Even though it is not my style, it might sometimes trigger a wake-up call/reminder for the right cause!

 

[Allan F]

On 5/2/2020 at 7:10 PM, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

When MQA gets flushed down the toilet, you can buy me a Pastrami sandwich and Knish in appreciation. 😃

 

Ugh...Pastrami sucks compared to Montreal Smoked Meat. 🙂

[MikeyFresh]

2 hours ago, jma2 said:

The equipment vendors might have chosen MQA as "another" option to differentiate themselves from the rest at the time of the hype or not to miss the hype... they may already regret it eventually (or am I naive?).

 

Agreed, and I don't think you are naive. My hope is that with the next cycle of product design and production, we'll quietly start to see this buzzword feature dropped. High-end brands typically don't have a new model every year or two, very often it is 5 or more years between the introduction of new models, a longer new product development cycle than for regular consumer electronics.

 

I expect to see less adoption among these high-end brands with the next new product cycle, with the realization that MQA long ago jumped the shark, despite what the industry rags might still be clinging to as news worthy of their promotion. But for every brand that drops it, there might be news ones willing to give it a go in hopes of boosting sales, which is why it remains important to fly the flag for the right cause as @jma2 described above.

 

I still salute the likes of Linn, Benchmark, and EXOGAL, among others, for not bending to pressure or sacrificing their core values in engineering, or their faith in the ability to offer consumers REAL value, and not just chase a few extra greenbacks. Evidently they are not just in the business of shifting a few units in any way possible. Not a simple decision to make, even if you know you are doing the right thing.

[The Computer Audiophile]

One thing that MQA has going against it is the fact that product certification for HiFi components takes a long time. Requiring physical product testing etc...

 

Its a pain in the butt for many manufacturers. Perhaps they’ll forgo the hassle in the next product cycle. 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

2 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

Ugh...Pastrami sucks compared to Montreal Smoked Meat. 🙂

I gotta say Schwartz's meat is A Ok.🤠

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

34 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

One thing that MQA has going against it is the fact that product certification for HiFi components takes a long time. Requiring physical product testing etc...

 

Its a pain in the butt for many manufacturers. Perhaps they’ll forgo the hassle in the next product cycle. 

"Perhaps they’ll forgo the hassle in the next product cycle."

 

Which proves the first time around it was a colossal wast of time. And all those dealers that were "consulted", were clueless. 😎

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

12 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

It is interesting how times have changed. There was a time when the major studios,  in conjunction with their magazine mouthpieces,  would have simply implemented MQA, the music consumer be damned.  They would not have even used lubricant.

But this is the age of the internet.  People openly questioned the BS that MQA was spewing,  much to the consternation of MQA and its magazine mouthpieces.  People would not simply bend over and take MQA.

The truth came out about MQA.

That is the paradigm shift.

that press release is great news IMO..if they are down to "dublurring" streamed video....lol...then they have one foot in the grave.